Order cancelled

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Not a US situation , but a US and Canadian situation. There are tons of folks ticked off about the supposed North American Free Trade Act , and we all know that is a joke, but to blame the US or Chrysler is not reasonable. It is virtually the same with other Corporations and it stems from both Governments.

1. US cars must meet 50 State US standards, not standards for any place else, hence whether we all like it or not ( and I don't like it ) it is a legal situation, hence coverage is not valid if it goes to Canada. The warranty is not valid if it goes to Germany ( for instance ) either. As ridiculous as it may seem, out of Country means just that, so whether it is next door in Canada or the example of Germany, no warranty.
2. Canadian government will not do this either if it goes out, as it meets standards for there. Same situation occurs.

If there is protectionism it is both Governments, and frankly that is the case , and like everyone here I think it is ridiculous with two Countries that are such good neighbors. But to blame Chrysler is naive, as you might as well start blaming all the other Automobile Corporations. We have a Ford store and the problem is the same. The reality is it is a Government issue and both involved are guilty.

The reason behind price differences , which will seem even more foolish when the cars are so similar, is the cost of certifying , for Canada. With 50-70 cars that are handbuilt each year, for the Viper, figure the likely irrational cost. Again red tape in Canada, and requirements, mean two virtually identical cars have minor little standards , yet by the time one does all the paperwork, stickers, mandatory changes, costs are incurred that are quite ridiculous for only a few cars. Want a concrete example, look at how one State ( California and CARB ) can delay things with one little standard change.

There are many in the Automotive Industry that would like this changed, but the underlying feeling is it is caused by Dealers on both sides of the borders wanting continuity, and not having a loss of customers from one Country to another due to currency changes. Years ago floods of Canadian cars came to the US as the Canadian dollar was worth much less. Now it often goes the other direction and Canadian Dealers are not excited about US cars coming up there. Whether true or not, it is not a situation where one Government is to blame -- it is 100% joint.

 

[supersnake]

I brought a VCA edition SRT 10 Ram across in 2004 and got it home and the driving lights would not work. Found out that they were not plugged in from the factory. Was told no warranty on the truck, Then the Chrysler rep told my dealer that if I wanted warranty I had to put in the metric gauges and give him my original gauges and I would have full warranty, I told him to stuff it and so I had no warranty. But I do feel it is a cross border thing not making enough money so we will stop the cross border shopping. It is another way for dealers and Chrysler to make more profits because they have the sale and they don't have to pay the expense to fix it when problems arise. The consumer does.

 

[kennyhemi]

This is true, it is protectionism and NOT a government policy. The reason on why they want to do this is because of shenanigans like this: 2013 Porsche 911, CAD 96k, USD 82k.

The manufacturers are trying to keep US cars from entering Canada because the profits in Canada can be extremely high, and the dealer network has a lot of pull.

The dealers have made the manufacturers play the incompatibility game by charging an arm and a leg for metric dash clusters, daytime running lights but all of those were gotten around with stickers and third party mods. Also things like a recall clearance letter are needed to show the vehicle has been kept up to date to allow it into Canada, these are only available from the dealer...guess what, MB and BMW US dealers cannot print off a valid recall clearance letters for Canadians, and the Canadian ones will do it and charge you $500 (since rescinded because of the uproar).

Now Chrysler is 'better' because there is little price disparity between US and CAD SRP, but the warranty issue is just a big protectionist racket that the manufacturers and the dealers are using to prop up their Canadian sales. It's not very becoming and as long as Canadians are willing to get hosed this situation will likely not change. But the government has nothing to do with it.

Here is the current list of how it all shakes down by company to bring a US car into Canada. Notice how each company has their own policy, so it is not any government requirement for Canadians to get screwed:
Acura
No Warranty Coverage


Audi
Canadian warranty coverage.


BMW
Warranty coverage, but free scheduled service, standard in Canada, will not be offered on cars imported from the United States. Full maintenance package that is included as part of U.S. sales is not extended to Canada. All modifications required to make cars conform to Canadian standards must be done by an authorized BMW dealer in Canada


Chrysler
Warranties of vehicles purchased in the United States will not be valid in Canada, unless a customer moves to Canada and gets approval by Chrysler Canada.
No Warranty Coverage


Ford
U.S. warranty of 3 years/36,000 miles bumper-to-bumper and five years/60,000 miles on powertrain will apply.


General Motors
The owner of a new GM car imported from the U.S. must wait until after 12,000 km and six months. If importing a GM vehicle into Canada from the US, owners call GM Vehicle Vintage Services group to obtain a Recall Clearance letter. Cost of the clearance is: $270. Call 1-888-467-6853 (toll free) or 1-905-440-7689 (outside Canada)
Delayed Warranty Coverage


Hyundai
The Hyundai warranty program applies only to Hyundai vehicles manufactured to Canadian specifications and distributed by authorized Canadian Hyundai dealers.
No Warranty Coverage


Infiniti
New U.S. market Infiniti cars must first be registered in the U.S. for the warranty to apply. If the car is sold within six months of the original purchase, the warranty becomes void.
Delayed Warranty Coverage


Mazda
The U.S. warranty on the vehicle will be honoured in Canada.
Warranty Coverage


Mercedes-Benz
Car must be modified to meet Canadian specs by a Mercedes-Benz Canada dealer and certified that standards are met. Mercedes-Benz Canada then issues a Letter of Compliance, and the same 4 year/80,000 km warranty as Canadian market cars. There is no corrosion warranty and no extended warranty is available. U.S. market cars do not get the two year/40,000 km wear and tear coverage for brake pads and rotors as well as lightbulbs Canadian market vehicles receive. Roadside assistance is also not provided for U.S. market cars.
No Corrosion Coverage


Subaru
The car must either be returned to the U.S. for warranty repairs, or the owner can have the car repaired by a Subaru dealer in Canada, pay for it in full, and submit the bill to Subaru U.S. for re-imbursement. Keep in mind, this is basically a “gentlemen’s agreement” and Subaru USA can change its policy at anytime.
Limited Warranty Coverage


Toyota-Lexus
Will honour U.S. warranty.
Warranty Coverage


Volkswagen
No warranty coverage on 2009 and later models.

Canadians pay more than Americans for Canadian-made vehicles
...a resident in Alliston, Ont., where the Acura MDX is made, would pay $52,690 based on the suggested retail price, while in the U.S. the vehicle's suggested price is $43,030...

Ottawa sued over car import rules
GREG KEENAN
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
February 28, 2008 at 1:48 AM EST

Two vehicle leasing companies have launched a class-action lawsuit on cross-border vehicle shopping with a new twist, alleging Transport Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency were participants in a conspiracy to keep vehicle prices high.

The two arms of the government have been named along with BMW Canada Inc., Mercedes-Benz Canada Inc. and Mercedes-Benz USA LLC in a lawsuit that alleges actions they required of people or companies trying to import U.S. vehicles into Canada reduced competition and enabled prices of vehicles sold here to be 20 per cent to 35 per cent higher than similar U.S. models.

The auto makers, Transport Canada and the CBSA imposed restrictions on vehicle importers that created additional fees and charges, said a statement of claim filed with the Ontario Superior Court.
...
BMW Canada's website says importers require a letter of admissibility from the company that costs $350. The fee for a letter saying the vehicle has been repaired under any recall orders is $500.

Looking at this list, it sure looks like Chrysler needs to follow Ford and Toyota lead and provide the same coverage in North America.

 

[Coloviper]

Most of the problem is "insert manufacturer here" Canada. Ford has found a way around this and would be nice if Chrysler would too, however it is those eastern Canadian Car Czar mofia types in government that make up these stupid rules in the name of getting money for nothing. There is a reason a german auto costs significantly more in Canada than the US and has little to do with dollar difference. The Canadian government needs to clean house on some of these guys. The Canadian Auto groups are long the most corrupt in the world. Might as well be from the Ukraine. And I am a dual USA/Canadian Citizen.

 

[vancouver-gts]

The Canadian government needs to clean house on some of these guys. The Canadian Auto groups are long the most corrupt in the world. Might as well be from the Ukraine. And I am a dual USA/Canadian Citizen.

Add RIV to the mix! http://www.riv.ca/

 

[Coloviper]

Yep RIV needs to be cleaned out as well, change the name to RIP. Some of the stupidest new import law revisions I have ever seen in the past 12 months. All money grab and no common sense.

 

[JAY]

Thank You Chorps ! Your Post validates my own experiance, and Shows The Manufacters at Corporate Level who are Loyal to there Costumers and the one's who Dismiss there Customers . These are the Facts . If Corporate Policy changed then I would change my position ,tell then , I will be Loyal to Reciprocation !

This is true, it is protectionism and NOT a government policy. The reason on why they want to do this is because of shenanigans like this: 2013 Porsche 911, CAD 96k, USD 82k.

The manufacturers are trying to keep US cars from entering Canada because the profits in Canada can be extremely high, and the dealer network has a lot of pull.

The dealers have made the manufacturers play the incompatibility game by charging an arm and a leg for metric dash clusters, daytime running lights but all of those were gotten around with stickers and third party mods. Also things like a recall clearance letter are needed to show the vehicle has been kept up to date to allow it into Canada, these are only available from the dealer...guess what, MB and BMW US dealers cannot print off a valid recall clearance letters for Canadians, and the Canadian ones will do it and charge you $500 (since rescinded because of the uproar).

Now Chrysler is 'better' because there is little price disparity between US and CAD SRP, but the warranty issue is just a big protectionist racket that the manufacturers and the dealers are using to prop up their Canadian sales. It's not very becoming and as long as Canadians are willing to get hosed this situation will likely not change. But the government has nothing to do with it.

Here is the current list of how it all shakes down by company to bring a US car into Canada. Notice how each company has their own policy, so it is not any government requirement for Canadians to get screwed:
Acura
No Warranty Coverage


Audi
Canadian warranty coverage.


BMW
Warranty coverage, but free scheduled service, standard in Canada, will not be offered on cars imported from the United States. Full maintenance package that is included as part of U.S. sales is not extended to Canada. All modifications required to make cars conform to Canadian standards must be done by an authorized BMW dealer in Canada


Chrysler
Warranties of vehicles purchased in the United States will not be valid in Canada, unless a customer moves to Canada and gets approval by Chrysler Canada.
No Warranty Coverage


Ford
U.S. warranty of 3 years/36,000 miles bumper-to-bumper and five years/60,000 miles on powertrain will apply.


General Motors
The owner of a new GM car imported from the U.S. must wait until after 12,000 km and six months. If importing a GM vehicle into Canada from the US, owners call GM Vehicle Vintage Services group to obtain a Recall Clearance letter. Cost of the clearance is: $270. Call 1-888-467-6853 (toll free) or 1-905-440-7689 (outside Canada)
Delayed Warranty Coverage


Hyundai
The Hyundai warranty program applies only to Hyundai vehicles manufactured to Canadian specifications and distributed by authorized Canadian Hyundai dealers.
No Warranty Coverage


Infiniti
New U.S. market Infiniti cars must first be registered in the U.S. for the warranty to apply. If the car is sold within six months of the original purchase, the warranty becomes void.
Delayed Warranty Coverage


Mazda
The U.S. warranty on the vehicle will be honoured in Canada.
Warranty Coverage


Mercedes-Benz
Car must be modified to meet Canadian specs by a Mercedes-Benz Canada dealer and certified that standards are met. Mercedes-Benz Canada then issues a Letter of Compliance, and the same 4 year/80,000 km warranty as Canadian market cars. There is no corrosion warranty and no extended warranty is available. U.S. market cars do not get the two year/40,000 km wear and tear coverage for brake pads and rotors as well as lightbulbs Canadian market vehicles receive. Roadside assistance is also not provided for U.S. market cars.
No Corrosion Coverage


Subaru
The car must either be returned to the U.S. for warranty repairs, or the owner can have the car repaired by a Subaru dealer in Canada, pay for it in full, and submit the bill to Subaru U.S. for re-imbursement. Keep in mind, this is basically a “gentlemen’s agreement” and Subaru USA can change its policy at anytime.
Limited Warranty Coverage


Toyota-Lexus
Will honour U.S. warranty.
Warranty Coverage


Volkswagen
No warranty coverage on 2009 and later models.

Canadians pay more than Americans for Canadian-made vehicles
...a resident in Alliston, Ont., where the Acura MDX is made, would pay $52,690 based on the suggested retail price, while in the U.S. the vehicle's suggested price is $43,030...

Ottawa sued over car import rules
GREG KEENAN
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
February 28, 2008 at 1:48 AM EST

Two vehicle leasing companies have launched a class-action lawsuit on cross-border vehicle shopping with a new twist, alleging Transport Canada and the Canada Border Services Agency were participants in a conspiracy to keep vehicle prices high.

The two arms of the government have been named along with BMW Canada Inc., Mercedes-Benz Canada Inc. and Mercedes-Benz USA LLC in a lawsuit that alleges actions they required of people or companies trying to import U.S. vehicles into Canada reduced competition and enabled prices of vehicles sold here to be 20 per cent to 35 per cent higher than similar U.S. models.

The auto makers, Transport Canada and the CBSA imposed restrictions on vehicle importers that created additional fees and charges, said a statement of claim filed with the Ontario Superior Court.
...
BMW Canada's website says importers require a letter of admissibility from the company that costs $350. The fee for a letter saying the vehicle has been repaired under any recall orders is $500.

 

[Yellow32]

Just a thought, in a very frustrating situation, but this is a company that not so many years ago would not even offer something this special , especially considering the difficulty with this showcar paint. I have been to Prefix and they are doing their best to perfect the process which takes three times as long to paint as a standard color. Rumors are they may be able to do a few more than the 25-30 they initially projected. I do know that the cars were allocated to Dealers and orders were not an indication one would ever get a car. I know we have a tremendous number of our past customers we can not get Stryker Red Snakes for, and am sure this is the case across the US and Canada.

Before the conspiracy theories take over, I could spend a paragraph listing excuses I heard from consumers and Dealers about why they could not get a Stryker Red or that SRT cheated them - not the case at all they simply had no allocation. The rational and logical issue is that once SRT took the brave move ( and of course many will now say foolish ) to do an expensive, labor intensive paint option, they opened the door for disappointment. They also did not anticipate the tremendous demand , any more than anyone else could guess. With a build of one car per week, one has to wonder how anyone could expect them to meet everyone's desire, but knowing the cost would be very high for said option, they figured the take would be fairly light. As it is now, Prefix and SRT are doing their best to figure a way to increase production, but the concern is that the first ones meet a very high quality standard.

So in summation, as hard as it is, let's be thankful the new SRT is willing to do special items like this as it can only increase in the future. Also , know that all are trying to figure a way to increase production of this color , but not at the expense of diluting a very unique process. The paint quality and Prefix's standard of excellence is going to surprise alot of Viper owners, as I have never seen paint of this quality on Vipers past -- on all colors available.

Respectfully Submitted

Bill,

Remember Chrysler's ownership of Lamborghini a while back?

Somehow they were able to turn out hundreds of Diablos each year with incredible paint jobs...and they were painted in the same building as they were assembled! I know because I was there several times in the 90s.

So, this talk about "trying to figure it out" is just nonsense, they already figured it out, over 20 years ago! And I am speaking directly of Chrysler...

Anyway, I don't have a dog in this hunt but this sure seems silly to me that an exquisite paint job is restricted to so few cars.

 

[Policy Limits]

Its really incredible how our Canadian neighbors get the shaft. Even Euro cars sold there have such an incredible premium when compared with American dealers of such brands.

As for paint jobs, time will tell. "rosso leto" paint on the lambo so i know the quality there. "shadow blue pearl" with stripe delete comin' on the viper....cant wait!

 

[VENOM V]

Bill,

Remember Chrysler's ownership of Lamborghini a while back?

Somehow they were able to turn out hundreds of Diablos each year with incredible paint jobs...and they were painted in the same building as they were assembled! I know because I was there several times in the 90s.

So, this talk about "trying to figure it out" is just nonsense, they already figured it out, over 20 years ago! And I am speaking directly of Chrysler...

Anyway, I don't have a dog in this hunt but this sure seems silly to me that an exquisite paint job is restricted to so few cars.

Not nonsense, I know some of the inside story. Unfortunately stryker red is extremely difficult to paint and very sensitive to the slightest contamination, compared to most other finishes. That is why it takes three times as long and the defect rate is high. So sometimes they have to redo. Truly a show car paint, not really suitable for volume manufacturing. Unfortunately when they painted the show car this special paint, didn't realize what they were getting into and did not realize that Viper nation would be demanding that they make it. So a small oops on their part turned into a headache, but I am very grateful that I have a chance to get one of the rare ones

 

[Policy Limits]

and YOU sir, will know that show car quality 1st hand very soon!!!!!

 

[troublemaker]

I sure SRT climbs out of all of this soon. It seems they bit off more than they can chew in many aspects of this car. As much as I know Fiat was instrumental in bringing this car back, I just hope they are as instrumental n keeping it back. If the paint is this much of an issue, discontinue it. If the tires are performing that poorly, change them. If the brakes are that bad, upgrade them. If they can't get any more power out of the motor because of the costs of passing emissions with a low production motor, offer it as an option in all the SRTs, we already know it fits in a Challenger that was originally built around the Hemi.

 

[VENOM V]

and YOU sir, will know that show car quality 1st hand very soon!!!!!

Thanks man! It won't be long until we will be all getting together at VCA events and enjoying these beasts.

 

[VENOM V]

I sure SRT climbs out of all of this soon. It seems they bit off more than they can chew in many aspects of this car. As much as I know Fiat was instrumental in bringing this car back, I just hope they are as instrumental n keeping it back. If the paint is this much of an issue, discontinue it. If the tires are performing that poorly, change them. If the brakes are that bad, upgrade them. If they can't get any more power out of the motor because of the costs of passing emissions with a low production motor, offer it as an option in all the SRTs, we already know it fits in a Challenger that was originally built around the Hemi.

Amen brother

 

[chorps]

Not nonsense, I know some of the inside story. Unfortunately stryker red is extremely difficult to paint and very sensitive to the slightest contamination, compared to most other finishes. That is why it takes three times as long and the defect rate is high. So sometimes they have to redo. Truly a show car paint, not really suitable for volume manufacturing. Unfortunately when they painted the show car this special paint, didn't realize what they were getting into and did not realize that Viper nation would be demanding that they make it. So a small oops on their part turned into a headache, but I am very grateful that I have a chance to get one of the rare ones

Reminds me of the paint that Porsche was offering for 911s sometime in the 90s. It was so difficult to apply and so environmentally toxic that they were only allotting three cars to be done. This was before the Porsche exclusive stuff. Paint could not be repaired either, so if you nicked, scratched or crashed it, it was done. From my sketchy recollection, I think it was some kind of pearl white.

At 14k a pop just for the paint job and the demand for it, you'd think they'd put up a separate line for the special jobs and allow for custom colour jobs etc for 20k. Maybe that's the plan but it looks like it's gotten out ahead of them so far.

 

[1BADGTS]

I sure SRT climbs out of all of this soon. It seems they bit off more than they can chew in many aspects of this car. As much as I know Fiat was instrumental in bringing this car back, I just hope they are as instrumental n keeping it back. If the paint is this much of an issue, discontinue it. If the tires are performing that poorly, change them. If the brakes are that bad, upgrade them. If they can't get any more power out of the motor because of the costs of passing emissions with a low production motor, offer it as an option in all the SRTs, we already know it fits in a Challenger that was originally built around the Hemi.

From what my mag buddys are saying basically the moneys been spent and their is nothing left for the R&D to develop and or change anything (brakes,motors ect )Single platform cars like this are tough as their is nothing to amatarize costs over say 50k units per year.

 

[ViperSmith]

And if all it comes down to is tires and brakes, then BFD. Buy some tires in the aftermarket and tear up the track. I don't get the obsession with factory tires and brakes.

 

[GTS-R 001]

What is the difference between a US Viper and a Canadian Viper,

Used to be gauges in metric first (but still dual), car seat hook and daylight running lights, anything else?

What is the difference now, if any?

 

[1BADGTS]

And if all it comes down to is tires and brakes, then BFD. Buy some tires in the aftermarket and tear up the track. I don't get the obsession with factory tires and brakes.

I truely believe if the Gen 5 was priced at exactly the same pricepoint as the 4 (WITH THE UPGRADED INTERIOR )SRT could have gotton away with alot more regarding lack of horsepwer numbers,tires brakes ect With a sticker approaching 150k its asing alot for the buyer to spend money to upgrade parts the factory should have given anyway considering the pricepoint the cars now at.

 

[ACRucrazy]

You must be registered for see images

 

[chorps]

I truely believe if the Gen 5 was priced at exactly the same pricepoint as the 4 (WITH THE UPGRADED INTERIOR )SRT could have gotton away with alot more regarding lack of horsepwer numbers,tires brakes ect With a sticker approaching 150k its asing alot for the buyer to spend money to upgrade parts the factory should have given anyway considering the pricepoint the cars now at.

Just chucking some basic numbers around but I estimate that 91k in 2010 would cost about 95k in 2013...which is about the same SRP that the 2010 Viper to the 2013 SRT model. Granted the GTS is another story but is the 2013 SRT really inferior to the 2010 GTS?

I just decided to check if the Viper is considerably overpriced vs. its ancestors so I pulled some numbers from MSN and pushed them into http://www.usinflationcalculator.com

Year Viper	US SRP (base car MSN)	Inflation adjusted to 2013 (US)
1992	$50,000.00	$82,067.00
1993	$50,000.00	$79,681.66
1994	$54,500.00	$84,684.62
1995	$56,000.00	$84,617.32
1996	$58,600.00	$86,006.42
1997	$66,000.00	$94,694.58
1998	$64,000.00	$90,416.69
1999	$65,725.00	$90,847.26
2000	$67,225.00	$90,567.44
2001	$69,225.00	$90,713.41
2002	$71,725.00	$91,811.19
2003	$79,995.00	$100,115.48
2004	$81,090.00	$98,853.39
2005	$81,895.00	$96,563.14
2006	$81,895.00	$93,545.54
2007
2008	$85,545.00	$91,495.72
2009	$88,590.00	$95,090.85
2010	$90,255.00	$95,315.04
2011
2012
2013	$97,395.00	<=

Interesting how the early generation changes made the effective sticker price go up beyond inflation, then the prices tends to trend down (even when trying to factor in inflation). The Gen III to Gen IV changeover went against that trend, and the Gen IV to Gen V is a mild bump.

 

[chorps]

What is the difference between a US Viper and a Canadian Viper,

Used to be gauges in metric first (but still dual), car seat hook and daylight running lights, anything else?

What is the difference now, if any?

Apparently the Canadian Vipers are sprinkled with magic Moose dust that enables the warranty to work in Canada.

 

[1BADGTS]

Another consideration is competition .When i bought my Gen 2 from Buhler in 96 i paid 62k.Nothing near approached it perfwise ,looks ect.Today theres a ton of choices with more technology ,equal to or better perf for less money than the Gen 5 .Maybe i am wrong but if the 5 was priced accordingly with the 4 (with the upgraded interior )buyers would OVERLOOK the lack of technology ,perform aspect and focus on a fantastic deal .Who cares if its not the best performing car in its class its a steal .Who cares if it doesnt have all state of the art features (dry sump,alum frame,carb fiber brakes ect )its a steal for under 100k

 

[FrankBarba]

Mike....Sorry that you weren't able to get the ride you wanted. I understand your feelings. Remember back in 98? I had a Dealer sell my car
out from under me while i was on vacation. I was Pi$$ed. Didn't purchase another viper until 2003. I really think and this is my opinion only,
Street Vipers just don't have it any more. I'll buy the next Generation Race Car (not an ACR). If SRT wants my $$$$ they have to build another
Race Car since mine is getting older.

 

[ViperSmith]

Another consideration is competition .When i bought my Gen 2 from Buhler in 96 i paid 62k.Nothing near approached it perfwise ,looks ect.Today theres a ton of choices with more technology ,equal to or better perf for less money than the Gen 5 .Maybe i am wrong but if the 5 was priced accordingly with the 4 (with the upgraded interior )buyers would OVERLOOK the lack of technology ,perform aspect and focus on a fantastic deal .Who cares if its not the best performing car in its class its a steal .Who cares if it doesnt have all state of the art features (dry sump,alum frame,carb fiber brakes ect )its a steal for under 100k

It is $2000 more than the Gen IV inflation adjusted, $5000 more if you add leather seats. I don't quite get your argument. Lets assume you are getting the "same" performance, you are now getting a much nicer total package - which is what people want. Lets be fair, the Gen IV wasn't selling at levels it should have (Obvious by new ones still on lots three years later). The old song and dance isn't going to cut it.

Ceramic brakes are moot, I don't see everyones obsession with them. The ZR1 has them, but the ZR1 will get heat sink before the CCB begin to matter. All you have is a fancy brake job that you can say costs $10,000.

 

[troublemaker]

It's only a steal if you can make it into what you want, but the locked down computers will forever hinder these models. The rest of the upgrades are easy, but for a motor to have so much engineered potential with a low ceiling, the guys that can't leave anything alone like me shy away. I still think it had at least a moderate part to do with the Gen4 having such lack luster sales.

 

[1BADGTS]

It is $2000 more than the Gen IV inflation adjusted, $5000 more if you add leather seats. I don't quite get your argument. Lets assume you are getting the "same" performance, you are now getting a much nicer total package - which is what people want. Lets be fair, the Gen IV wasn't selling at levels it should have (Obvious by new ones still on lots three years later). The old song and dance isn't going to cut it.

Ceramic brakes are moot, I don't see everyones obsession with them. The ZR1 has them, but the ZR1 will get heat sink before the CCB begin to matter. All you have is a fancy brake job that you can say costs $10,000.

But that much nicer package now stickers for near 150k.Dont focus so much on the Gen 4 focus on current competition and whats being offered with equal to or better perf -tech features than the GEN 5 .Spec the Car and Driver article is big trouble esp considering the Vette was at the end of its production fun .Many people i tried turning on to the 5 continue to ask the same question .Why would i want the Viper when i can have the Vette thats better performing ,has a ton more tech features and amenitys for 20k plus;less .At the price point the cars at now the buyer wants everything perf,ride dealer service ,technology ,fit ,finess amenitys ect. I mentioned the braking system because that is the feature Car and Driver singled out that works much better on the Vette.

 

[ViperSmith]

Bill has posted that most have bought $120k GTS. Hes posted he had one $150k GTS and a lot of base SRT's. Mine is a whole $110,000 for everything I wanted.

The "$150k" price tag is just a red herring. People want to compare the Gen IV to the Gen V, the closest match to the Gen IV is the base SRT with upgraded leather - nothing else.

It is like saying the Porche Cayman costs $110,000 - because you went and checked every box off for the Cayman on the builder.

THe Gen IV is of zero interest to me. The Corvette is of zero interest to me. The GT-R is of no interest to me. I want the Gen V, because I've always wanted a Viper and it finally doesn't have a lack luster interior package. There are plenty of people picking them up.

 

[Policy Limits]

perspective is an interesting thing. Some see the model as so much more costlier than the corvette; I see it as so much cheaper than the mclaren or gallardo.

i think my comparsion is more on point since a vette is a daily driver and the others are not.

 

[1BADGTS]

Great point as perspective is an interesting thing .Anyone who had a GEN 4 will tell you that the interior was TERRIBLE in a 90plus k car. The guys i know interested in the 5 were afraid the stock interior would be subpar for a 110k car and went for the upgrade.Inturn they were adamant they were not interested in a 110k car with an interior equal to or slightly better than the 4 . .I was trying to take individual perspective out of the equation by referencing what the competition was offering .We all want the car to succeed and the point i was making was from an OVERALL BUYERS VIEW (not an individual buyers view )of whats expected in a car costing 110-150k.The only way to do this is reference what you competition is offering at that pricepoint. Yes a base model optioned is 110k then again whats a base model GTR or ZR-1 .Personally i wouldnt touch either one (not my taste )but as isaid iam not looking at this from a personal standpoint but from a standpoint of whats need for the 5 to be successful.