Paddle Shift

[Warfang]

According to the logic of some folks here, ALL of the cars involved here did NOT have TC. What are the odds...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/03/11/MNGHPHMNAB4.DTL

 

[madman]

No, these were simply too fast for the conditions. Some of them did not want and some of them could not slow down. I get plenty of these idiots in and around Prague. Before I moved I never saw so many rear ends.

I doubt I thought about TC when I was in Bay Area. Neither I wouldn't care less being somewhere at great plains where the only direction you can go is straight ahead. But here the roads are a bit more narrow and bumpy and weather a bit more unpredictable and colder. Sometimes I can only guess whether the surface is wet, dry or little frosty. At sunset there is not much difference in how do they look. I took Viper out at 20 (dry), 30 and 40 (mixed). Never in snow. But for the same reason I switch off TC in my Expedition when on snow I want TC in Viper where I can switch it off when nice and dry. Now I am facing Hamlet question - To keep it or not. Without TC , DSC etc. Viper is becoming a toy of a limited use. Which is sad to let the toy go just because you move. Maybe it's the way it is and I will be more happy in 4wd Gallardo here. But so far I don't want to let this go.

Now speaking about paddle shift (that's the thread name right?) - I would want it no matter where I live. It's a matter of fun and reaching the car's potential. Oh - and if you think I don't know to handle the stick - I grew up on old continent and drove stick for about 25 years now.

 

[Warfang]

Without TC , DSC etc. Viper is becoming a toy of a limited use.

Is the crack THAT much better in CZ? The Viper NEVER had TC, so it's not "becoming" anything. It is what it is. You can BUY TC for it from racelogic. Besides, you have no business driving a supercar in deep snow unless you're extremely rich and/or stupid. Maybe everyone in CZ has a Gallardo and uses it as a snowplow, but I've never seen it in the Sierras. Demanding a car manufacturer to modify a car because you're moving to a different place is just plain stupid. So if I'm moving to the Rockies, should I demand Vipers now be made with 20inch (50.8 cm for you euros) clearance as an option? Or if I'm moving to Venice, it should have a gondola option?

Again... common sense should rule the day here. The Viper has ALWAYS been designed as a niche car, whereas the vette has been designed as a car for the general public. PLEASE look up the word "niche."

DC should just allow vipertechs that voluntarily gets certified with Racelogic to install their TC without voiding the warranty and call it a day. If you want it, YOU pay for it. I shouldn't have to subsidize your insecurities... it's like welfare.

 

[madman]

I don't remember talking about driving Viper in snow so call yourself stupid for calling me stupid. And try to read what am I saying. The above statement meant 'Without TC , DSC etc. Viper is becoming a toy of a limited use FOR ME.' I hope you approve my right to say what I think oh yoda.

Why the hell you think you have the right to define the niche. With the same logic you should switch back to 56k modem and 286 PC. Viper is niche because of its (look), driving characteristic, the combination of brute power and razor sharp not forgiving handling. The (non)existence of TC has nothing to do with it.

It looks to me that the existence of the e-godies would make you a lesser man huh? It'd hurt quite a bit at the bar if you couldn't say 'I am da man, these controls are for *******'. Why the hell don't you remove the fuel injection and replace with a carburator. A macho man does not need etronics to control the amount of fuel in the cylinder, right?

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Maybe everyone in CZ has a Gallardo and uses it as a snowplow,

Well, Lambo did make tractors.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Why the hell don't you remove the fuel injection and replace with a carburator. A macho man does not need etronics to control the amount of fuel in the cylinder, right?

We already covered that. HP mods are not nanny aids.

 

[Warfang]

I don't remember talking about driving Viper in snow so call yourself stupid for calling me stupid. And try to read what am I saying. The above statement meant 'Without TC , DSC etc. Viper is becoming a toy of a limited use FOR ME.' I hope you approve my right to say what I think oh yoda.

Why the hell you think you have the right to define the niche. With the same logic you should switch back to 56k modem and 286 PC. Viper is niche because of its (look), driving characteristic, the combination of brute power and razor sharp not forgiving handling. The (non)existence of TC has nothing to do with it.

It looks to me that the existence of the e-godies would make you a lesser man huh? It'd hurt quite a bit at the bar if you couldn't say 'I am da man, these controls are for *******'. Why the hell don't you remove the fuel injection and replace with a carburator. A macho man does not need etronics to control the amount of fuel in the cylinder, right?

Wasn't calling you stupid, although the crack comment still applies.

It was to point out that common sense says you don't drive a Viper intentionally in inclimate weather. If you happen to be caught in it, you drive like a grandma. TC would not help you if you "drove it like you stole it" under those conditions. If you can't afford a second, more practical car, you should not own a Viper, or not complain it's not the perfect daily driver. Now go buy a Racelogic TC and kwiturbitchin... I hear it works really well.

 

[Warfang]

Maybe everyone in CZ has a Gallardo and uses it as a snowplow,

Well, Lambo did make tractors.

...and awesome SUV's too. The Cheetah/LM's were in contention to replace the Army Jeep before they dropped out and the hmmwv took the title. Anyone here own one?

You must be registered for see images

 

[xanadu]

Some of you may have wondered when I was going to chime in on this, since I've beaten this subject many times before.

I agree very much with John Baird. The minimalist/purist Viper owners are afraid of "options" for whatever reason. Some even like to make the "pink" claim, which is so juvenile/immature. The option of TC & paddle shift would open up another avenue of prospective buyers, but the minimalists are terrified of what this might do to their precious Viper "manhood".

Some claim that added gear would add to the costs of upkeep & repairs . . . when you are spending thousands to modify your Vipers anyway, what difference does it make. Bite the bullet on this. You bought a near $100,000 auto remember?

Best all around scenario . . . defeatable TC on all Vipers. Paddle shifted transmissions as an option. I SAID OPTION (hope you understand that meaning). R & D costs can be added into the cost of the "Optioned" paddle shift models.

Some minimalist purists are whining about the R & D costs for development. To engineer such a product (paddle shift transmission) would not break the bank so to speak. This technology has been around for many years. It was developed for the Chrysler ME-412 & was a highly respected system. There have also already been at least 2 Viper driving professional racing teams which have used Paddle Shifter gearbox/transmissions in their racing Vipers over in Europe, and this was a couple/few years back. One of those teams I know has now changed over to the 550/575 Maranello's. Point is, the system has already been used in SRT era Vipers in endurance road racing. Hmmm.

The minimalist/purist Viper owners are more willing to risk the viability of the entire Viper entity simply because of their die hard beliefs that the "Viper" was made for "only" them. Many of those die hards are not even owners of the current generation. I would even suspect that of the few hundred, heck, let's even say few thousand just to make a real point . . . that the few "thousand" die hard minimal purists out there, less than 20 have bought a Viper more frequently than 1 in every 3 years. How does the lineage of the Viper continue without continued sales? The minimalist purists are not going to be able to keep the sales alive enough to continue the line. Broadening the market to other potential buyers will keep the line alive. Closing the gap between a $180,000 plus used Lambo & Ferrari & Aston Martin will sell Vipers. The mimimalist purists can either hold on to their precious minimal Vipers, or they can buy a newer version with the "option" of standard manual, or upgraded "paddle shift" transmission. Did that really hurt? Of course not. Did it help to save a breed which has dying sales . . . perhaps, a very strong perhaps. It could even make an impact on European sales of the Viper . . . and why not . . . D of C is somewhat strong in Europe (duh).

Options. People are more willing to shop when there are more "OPTIONS". Let's face it, the whole of the "die hard minimalist purist" is very limited in its numbers. Most of "them" are all on here posting daily and you could probably count them easily at less than 200. How many other Viper owners are there though who have never been to this site and could really care less about what the Viper "purists" think? They are owners who liked the look of the Viper and its power, and just bought it. There are many times more of that kind of buyer than the minimalist purist buyer. They also typically, in my opinion, have way more money to burn. Those are the ones I would be more concerned with in sales if I were DC. The minimalist purist Viper owners would need to purchase at least 1, if not really 2 or 3 Vipers more likely, each year to keep the line alive over the next 3 - 6 years. That ain't going to happen.

Flame me; no suit and I don't care!!!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Maybe everyone in CZ has a Gallardo and uses it as a snowplow,

Well, Lambo did make tractors.

...and awesome SUV's too. The Cheetah/LM's were in contention to replace the Army Jeep before they dropped out and the hmmwv took the title. Anyone here own one?

Cool. I hope it comes with TC and paddles. I could never drive a SUV without TC and paddles.

Oh yeah, and tire pressure sensors. It's impossible to tell if a tire is low without a sensor.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Flame me; no suit and I don't care!!!

Gawd, where to begin? There are so many things wrong with your analysis, most of which has already been discussed even in this thread if you cared to read it.

For the gazillionth time, it isn't the purist that are whining "Why doesn't the Viper have [enter nanny aid of choice here]." The purist are perfectly happy with the Viper.

And for another gazillionth time, why did you guys buy a low tech, too-rough-for-my-butt Viper?

 

[Warfang]

Flame me; no suit and I don't care!!!

Gawd, where to begin? There are so many things wrong with your analysis, most of which has already been discussed even in this thread if you cared to read it.

For the gazillionth time, it isn't the purist that are whining "Why doesn't the Viper have [enter nanny aid of choice here]." The purist are perfectly happy with the Viper.

And for another gazillionth time, why did you guys buy a low tech, too-rough-for-my-butt Viper?

The only whining I hear is coming from the likes of flameboy.

This thread bores me... the whiners have nothing interesting or intelligent to say. yawn.

 

[Cris]

For the gazillionth time, it isn't the purist that are whining "Why doesn't the Viper have [enter nanny aid of choice here]." The purist are perfectly happy with the Viper.

You are correct. Of course they are also not buying the new Vipers either. And many are so PURE that they only buy used Vipers in the first place. Not exactly the buying public DC is seeking.

I have no understanding why having an ability that is completely defeatable, or one that is optional, bothers people. If you don't want it don't buy it or use it. Quite simple. Why would you care if someone else does. Do you also care if someone else adds it as an aftermarket item? If not, why the difference? Because it reduces the no frills image of the Viper? Is the publics opinion so important to you?

I used ot hear this same [******] about ABS. I mean real men don't need no friggin ABS. Of course braking improved immensely with ABS and now it is touted as a positive.

Think of some of the frills that Vipers have already:
Power Steering
Power brakes
mult-disc CD radios
Air conditioning
Power windows
Power door locks
Alarm systems with Key fobs
electric trunk release
A cup holder
2, yes 2 glove boxes
electrically adjustable pedals
convertible top (for the converts)
tire pressure monitoring


Now how many of these did the original 1992 RT/10 have? Just the power brake, power steering and alarm system. Seems like they have added many of these over the production time period. Why do you think it should stop now. Technology will continue on. You should expect ETC (electronic throttle) soon as throttle cables are going the way of the distributor (unless you guys are bitchin you can't change the timing by twisting the distributor), TC and active handling (as a government mandate) among other improvements.

 

[Warfang]

For the gazillionth time, it isn't the purist that are whining "Why doesn't the Viper have [enter nanny aid of choice here]." The purist are perfectly happy with the Viper.

You are correct. Of course they are also not buying the new Vipers either. And many are so PURE that they only buy used Vipers in the first place. Not exactly the buying public DC is seeking.

I have no understanding why having an ability that is completely defeatable, or one that is optional, bothers people. If you don't want it don't buy it or use it. Quite simple. Why would you care if someone else does. Do you also care if someone else adds it as an aftermarket item? If not, why the difference? Because it reduces the no frills image of the Viper? Is the publics opinion so important to you?

I used ot hear this same [******] about ABS. I mean real men don't need no friggin ABS. Of course braking improved immensely with ABS and now it is touted as a positive.

Think of some of the frills that Vipers have already:
Power Steering
Power brakes
mult-disc CD radios
Air conditioning
Power windows
Power door locks
Alarm systems with Key fobs
electric trunk release
A cup holder
2, yes 2 glove boxes
electrically adjustable pedals
convertible top (for the converts)
tire pressure monitoring


Now how many of these did the original 1992 RT/10 have? Just the power brake, power steering and alarm system. Seems like they have added many of these over the production time period. Why do you think it should stop now. Technology will continue on. You should expect ETC (electronic throttle) soon as throttle cables are going the way of the distributor (unless you guys are bitchin you can't change the timing by twisting the distributor), TC and active handling (as a government mandate) among other improvements.

Actually... I've stated many times that I plan on getting an srtc, but add the nannytechs, and I'll reconsider.

btw... the govt will mandate a DEFEATABLE TC? You must also be from CZ. Take another puff.

 

[RS27J9A]

Some of you may have wondered when I was going to chime in on this, since I've beaten this subject many times before.

I agree very much with John Baird. The minimalist/purist Viper owners are afraid of "options" for whatever reason. Some even like to make the "pink" claim, which is so juvenile/immature. The option of TC & paddle shift would open up another avenue of prospective buyers, but the minimalists are terrified of what this might do to their precious Viper "manhood".

Some claim that added gear would add to the costs of upkeep & repairs . . . when you are spending thousands to modify your Vipers anyway, what difference does it make. Bite the bullet on this. You bought a near $100,000 auto remember?

Best all around scenario . . . defeatable TC on all Vipers. Paddle shifted transmissions as an option. I SAID OPTION (hope you understand that meaning). R & D costs can be added into the cost of the "Optioned" paddle shift models.

Some minimalist purists are whining about the R & D costs for development. To engineer such a product (paddle shift transmission) would not break the bank so to speak. This technology has been around for many years. It was developed for the Chrysler ME-412 & was a highly respected system. There have also already been at least 2 Viper driving professional racing teams which have used Paddle Shifter gearbox/transmissions in their racing Vipers over in Europe, and this was a couple/few years back. One of those teams I know has now changed over to the 550/575 Maranello's. Point is, the system has already been used in SRT era Vipers in endurance road racing. Hmmm.

The minimalist/purist Viper owners are more willing to risk the viability of the entire Viper entity simply because of their die hard beliefs that the "Viper" was made for "only" them. Many of those die hards are not even owners of the current generation. I would even suspect that of the few hundred, heck, let's even say few thousand just to make a real point . . . that the few "thousand" die hard minimal purists out there, less than 20 have bought a Viper more frequently than 1 in every 3 years. How does the lineage of the Viper continue without continued sales? The minimalist purists are not going to be able to keep the sales alive enough to continue the line. Broadening the market to other potential buyers will keep the line alive. Closing the gap between a $180,000 plus used Lambo & Ferrari & Aston Martin will sell Vipers. The mimimalist purists can either hold on to their precious minimal Vipers, or they can buy a newer version with the "option" of standard manual, or upgraded "paddle shift" transmission. Did that really hurt? Of course not. Did it help to save a breed which has dying sales . . . perhaps, a very strong perhaps. It could even make an impact on European sales of the Viper . . . and why not . . . D of C is somewhat strong in Europe (duh).

Options. People are more willing to shop when there are more "OPTIONS". Let's face it, the whole of the "die hard minimalist purist" is very limited in its numbers. Most of "them" are all on here posting daily and you could probably count them easily at less than 200. How many other Viper owners are there though who have never been to this site and could really care less about what the Viper "purists" think? They are owners who liked the look of the Viper and its power, and just bought it. There are many times more of that kind of buyer than the minimalist purist buyer. They also typically, in my opinion, have way more money to burn. Those are the ones I would be more concerned with in sales if I were DC. The minimalist purist Viper owners would need to purchase at least 1, if not really 2 or 3 Vipers more likely, each year to keep the line alive over the next 3 - 6 years. That ain't going to happen.

Flame me; no suit and I don't care!!!

The SRT-10 was intended to have a broader market appeal.

A couple of questions:

1)Since the introduction of the SRT-10 has CAAP been shut down due to a build up of inventories as the result of lack of sales?

2)Due to slow sales, what are SRT resale values like? Have 02 GTS prices typically been higher than used 03 and 04 SRT-10's?

3)Due to chasing after a borader market could SRT perhaps have been sidetracked in developing the SRT-10 and as a result presented the opportunity for GM to offer a better alternative namely the Z06 which has all the extras you seem to want on the Viper.

4)Has the borader appeal of the SRT-10 made it into the runaway success that was enjoyed by the GEN 1 &2 Vipers?


The previous gen cars were NICHE vehicles that occupied a small percentage of the market and did extremely well in doing so in small volume. The care was successful up until the SRT came along and aimed to satisfy everyone and their grandmother.

 

[Cris]

Gee and market conditions and competition had nothing to do with things. Oh, and how well were Gen II sales going in the last few years before the Gen III? Please tell me the average number of days in inventory for that period.

Basically until 2001 there was nothing on the US market that approached the Viper. In 2001 the Z06 started to apply some pressure. In 2002, with a bump up in hp, the Z06 provided strong competition. Now, and really for the last 2 years due to leaks about the upcoming Z06, the Z06 has provided more than just strong competition. If the Gen II was still on sale the Viper line would be out of business. Looks or not.

Please do not try to tell me that sales dropped because of the cup holder, trunk release or other technical feature. We are talking about features and not appearance here.

As to having TC as a government mandate. I said active handling as a government mandate. Please read before you dis something. And if you want to place a side bet I would be more than willing.

 

[JBsZ06]

Somehow I don't see paddle shifting hitting the Viper. (as it doesn't have Active handling technology)

I think it would be a great performance advance...

Somehow I don't think its what DC sees the Viper buyers want..

JMO

 

[RS27J9A]

Gee and market conditions and competition had nothing to do with things. Oh, and how well were Gen II sales going in the last few years before the Gen III? Please tell me the average number of days in inventory for that period.

Basically until 2001 there was nothing on the US market that approached the Viper. In 2001 the Z06 started to apply some pressure. In 2002, with a bump up in hp, the Z06 provided strong competition. Now, and really for the last 2 years due to leaks about the upcoming Z06, the Z06 has provided more than just strong competition. If the Gen II was still on sale the Viper line would be out of business. Looks or not.

Please do not try to tell me that sales dropped because of the cup holder, trunk release or other technical feature. We are talking about features and not appearance here.

As to having TC as a government mandate. I said active handling as a government mandate. Please read before you dis something. And if you want to place a side bet I would be more than willing.

They were never to the point where Dodge had to shut down the plant.

As for market conditions.... Was there not a ZR1 vette and Porsche 911 Turbo during those years??? The Viper always had competition.

Sales of the SRT dropped because dodge took it upon themselves to nudge it towards buyers who have much broader tastes, in doing so they put it into a market that has many more options.

The appeal of the original viper was because it was pure and raw. It should always remain that way. You want options, buy a Z06.

 

[Cris]

ZR1 cost MORE and had less performance. It also only overlapped a few years. The 911 turbo has never been direct competition. Cost nearly double and quite a different car.

And yes, the Viper plant had down periods before 2003. In fact it was due to slow sales that they started creating the specialty color combos and such.

The only aspect you can make a case for is the styling that came out in 2003. That is styling. I do not read anything about technical virtues into that as the SRT had very few technical additions versus 2002.

Course you could be right. Limit potential options to reduce the total market and I am sure sales will skyrocket. Sounds like marketing executive material to me. Just for you they should eliminate all conveniences that are not required (power brakes, ABS, power pedals, air conditioning, radio, windows, etc) and not have the weight reduced accordingly. Maybe even a steel tubing suspension to make it really crude. That should sell right? Maybe in 1992 when it was 50k and the only competitor was 70k and weighed much more and had inferior performance. Not in 2006 with the competition less expensive, lighter and higher performance.

But why should the few vocal anti-tech people decide for the rest of the people? Are you the only ones with a vote?

 

[Warfang]

The appeal of the original viper was because it was pure and raw. It should always remain that way. You want options, buy a Z06.

As flippant as that sounds, it's true and there's really nothing wrong with a vette, especially nowadays with the z06. It kicks @$$ in many respects. The point is, vettes are not about pure and raw, it's about new ****-bang technology and so easy to drive a grandma can drive it to the grocery store with it. OK, so you don't like that comparison... How about it's so fast and powerful that some guy named Ranger here can do awesome 1/4mile times on it? The point is, vettes fit the bill for BOTH, and that's what's great about vettes.

In the real world, the Viper will NEVER be able to compete with the vette on their "be everything to everyone" turf. Especially not the the production number we're used to. The price will also have to drop 10-15k to compete. Then prepare to fight the Viper's well-earned reputation as a barroom brawler, and tone it down so it gets even broader appeal.

Enough logic... RED IS FASTER! If you don't agree with me, you ****!

 

[RS27J9A]

ZR1 cost MORE and had less performance. It also only overlapped a few years. The 911 turbo has never been direct competition. Cost nearly double and quite a different car.

And yes, the Viper plant had down periods before 2003. In fact it was due to slow sales that they started creating the specialty color combos and such.

The only aspect you can make a case for is the styling that came out in 2003. That is styling. I do not read anything about technical virtues into that as the SRT had very few technical additions versus 2002.

Course you could be right. Limit potential options to reduce the total market and I am sure sales will skyrocket. Sounds like marketing executive material to me. Just for you they should eliminate all conveniences that are not required (power brakes, ABS, power pedals, air conditioning, radio, windows, etc) and not have the weight reduced accordingly. Maybe even a steel tubing suspension to make it really crude. That should sell right? Maybe in 1992 when it was 50k and the only competitor was 70k and weighed much more and had inferior performance. Not in 2006 with the competition less expensive, lighter and higher performance.

But why should the few vocal anti-tech people decide for the rest of the people? Are you the only ones with a vote?

The Viper plant was never shut down prior to 2003 because of slow sales.

Of course I am talking styling, just look at the car, it is much more contemporary, to refute that is bogus. It was designed by the dude who designed TOYOTA'S! Contemporary = broader market appeal. There are more people who want a "stylish" car over a "loud" in your face car.

There are many low-volume niche products in the world today that survive happily on low volume solid, consistant sales. Niche makes something unique, borader appeal means you will see more and more of them, again taking you back to saving the coin and buying a Z06.


As an aside, where could you buy a 92 RT/10 in 92 for 50K?

 

[Early93Viper]

The sad thing is that you Traction Control guys will get your wish on the next GEN viper (if not but for the lawyers). Perhaps you might even get the Paddle shift as well. Why stop there why not Satellite Navigation? Heated seats? Perhaps a chilled cup holder to keep your Iced frappuccino cold?

I have defended the GEN III many times. I think it is an incredible car and although not my favorite worthy of the viper name.....maybe the last true Viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The sad thing is that you Traction Control guys will get your wish on the next GEN viper (if not but for the lawyers). Perhaps you might even get the Paddle shift as well. Why stop there why not Satellite Navigation? Heated seats? Perhaps a chilled cup holder to keep your Iced frappuccino cold?

Sarcastic but true. The end is on the horizon. Dodge will keep us purists by bumping the HP but we will have to pay for the option to have options like paddles, TC and AS.

As far back as 99 I remember the whining about crappy stereo, crappy interior, a "true" convertible, they even whined about the rear hatch release and having a support rod for the RT/10 trunk. All those things were sooooooooooooo important.

They will win. We will lose.

I might as well buy Ferrari...or a Vette.

 

[Warfang]

The sad thing is that you Traction Control guys will get your wish on the next GEN viper (if not but for the lawyers). Perhaps you might even get the Paddle shift as well. Why stop there why not Satellite Navigation? Heated seats? Perhaps a chilled cup holder to keep your Iced frappuccino cold?

I have defended the GEN III many times. I think it is an incredible car and although not my favorite worthy of the viper name.....maybe the last true Viper.

I second (third) that. Until the nannytechs kick in, I'm sure there's another Viper with my name on it, but the Noble is looking pretty good for the long run.

 

[M. ROD]

Herb Helbig, is the “Grailkeeper“. His official title is Manager of Vehicle Synthesis. In other words, he is keeping the Viper, as it evolves through the course of its life, true to the original set of parameters.

From Herb himself:

We’ve got to keep it simple, we’ve got to make it fun, its got to be the most outrageous car you’ve ever touched. When you turn the key on, the hair on the back of your neck has got to stand up. It’s got to be a visceral, emotional, almost religious experience. It falls to me to make sure that we don’t lose sight of why we started this program. It’s all about fun, passion, and the desire just to put people back on their heels to say “I can’t believe these guys made such an outrageous, awesome, off-the-scale car”. It’s a challenge to mature it, to grow the car up a little, yet not lose its essence. When people come to me and say “you know it really needs cruise control; I took one to Chicago and my right foot got kinda tired…” that guy gets thrown out of my office. Or a guy comes in and says “you know, it would be cool if we had power seats’ that guy gets thrown out of the building. And the guy who says “I think we need an automatic transmission” well, they’re still looking for his body.

It’s just the nature of the car to be that way. To be raw, in your face, not a car that grandma could jump in and master. The Viper doesn't have to apologize to anyone for the way it is(not that it looks like it's going to be making any apologies ). It’s a bad boy, a rebel, a bully. That’s just the way it is.

 

[SylvanSRT]

would radio controls on the steering wheel be too outragous to ask for?

 

[Janni]

If Herb ever leaves, we're screwed.

If they'd let Herb make more decisions - we'd be golden.

2003 headlights - definitely a high tech advantage. They rock. Want to know why there are there? Herb said "this car is so fast - you shouldn't be able to outdrive your headlights." You can't. The purists are NOT AGAINST technology.

The power pedals? Lighter than manual adjust. Purists win again.

The brakes - and ABS - the PVO guys (called that at the time) equipped a car with ABS and brought Herb to the track. it was clear that the car was much faster with it - so it was done - but it was done with things like dynamic proportioning that gave the max braking to the rear. We're not against technology.

The car has certainly "broadened" it's appeal. Except that that new broader appeal isn't "enough" and cars still sit on the lot. People enter showrooms after "comparison shopping" other brands - Jags, Mercedes, etc. With the addition of the true convertible - some (grossly mistaken) buyers are thinking these cars should be "compared" and are driving some of these questions / must haves. They say things like "I can get 27 way power seats on the Jag convertible" They shold be shown the door.

Unfortunately, some of them are actually buying the car and then complaining about it's uncivilized nature.

Sigh. The outrageousness of this car needs to come back. The EXCLUSIVITY that we always talk about shouldn't be measured in actual prodution numbers, or sticker price - but in the number of Viper crazed addicts that are willing to put up with it's aggressive and hard to tame nature for the ultimate reward of launching just right, doing a perfect heel / toe downshift coming into a corner and hitting the apex, things that some of these so-called "enthusiasts" don't want to master and being part of the club that "gets it" and would want nothing else. These are the folks that will keep Conner Avenue running.

Most paddle shifting gets old real fast - and then - you are truly just one step away from an automatic.

 

[Warfang]

If Herb ever leaves, we're screwed.

If Herb ever dies, we'll need to prop him up like "Weekend at Bernie's" so the suits won't notice the difference and not nannyfy the Viper.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Excellently put Janni.

As for the ABS, it was the only way to continue being competitive (track-wise, I don't give a dang about street). I think the purists would still prefer to go without ABS if it were illegal in the classes Viper competes in. Which incidently there might be a trend in that direction.

 

[INSOMNIAC]

How about fake paddles that don't shift just like the fake air opening on C6 Z06's hood?

We'll just stick some plastic paddles on both sides of the steering column by double sided 3M.