Please help me determine if I have tranny problem.

[YLW DRM2]

Little history, I have 05 SRT10, a month ago (early October) I was running HPDE school for the first time and most of the time ran in 3rd gear, however, I noticed couple of times when I was downshifting to 3rd from 4th gear I could not do it. At the time I felt like I am missing the 3rd gear and sticking it in between 1st and 3rd gears. Because that was my first time running the track in this car I decided to leave it in the 3rd for the all of sessions on the track and concentrate on the dynamics of the car.

After the event I read on the forum that Royal Purple Syncromax tranny oil should help to keep tranny cooler and shift smoother. So I changed it to RP Syncromax (to be hones, I did not notice any improvment).

Yesterday I went with another fellow Viper member and other few friends to another HPDE event. I had total of 5 sessions and for the first three sessions car ran perfect, this time I was shifting on the slow turns to 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the long straightaway. However, in the afternoon in my 4th session after few laps in the session I noticed that I cannot engage 3rd gear after I ran car on the straightaway in 4th. Well once again I thought I am missing 3rd gear, but no, I tried it couple of times and I literally could not push shifter into the 3rd gear. So I took the car off of the track slowed down and tried going slow from 1st to 5th gear (1,2,3,4,5), hm no problem. Ok I take it back on the race track and same thing again, after 4th gear I cannot engage 3rd, but this time it was even worse, I felt that I am pushing shifter into the 3rd gear, but instead of having normal feeling of putting shifter in the gear I felt like I was forcing it into the gear, hard to explain, but the feeling was like I was bending the internal part of the shifter. Same feeling would be if you stick a piece of hollow thin pipe deep into the ground and then try to push on it, you will end up bending the pipe, but not moving it a bit in the ground. So I take it off of the track for good, this was my last session anyway. Turn the engine off and tried going through gears, it felt a bit different, but I could shift 1-6 (1,2,3,4,5,6) no problem. On the way home I shifted to 3rd gear only few times during traffic, but it was shifting into it no problem.

Sorry for the long write up, but I wonder if anyone can identify what my problem is? Is it even possible to bend shifter (internal part of it) when its hot? Why would 3rd gear not engage when tranny really hot?

Thanks.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Did your fellow Viper owner friend have any problems?
When you say you tried "going slow from 1st to 5th gear, hm no problem" did you mean 1-2-3-4-5 or 1-5?
Same about 1-6; is that 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 1-6?

When RPMs are high it takes longer and a harder push to downshift because you are trying to get two parts spinning at different speeds to come to the same speed. It just takes longer than it does at normal road speeds. Roe made a link that disengaged the clutch further for the same pedal travel; I have made a system for the non-adjustable pedals for the Gen 1. More clutch plate deparature reduces the drag and allows better shift action.

When you say "after 4th gear I cannot engage 3rd, but this time it was even worse" does that mean you never engage 3rd, or that it takes longer?

 

[YLW DRM2]

Did your fellow Viper owner friend have any problems?
When you say you tried "going slow from 1st to 5th gear, hm no problem" did you mean 1-2-3-4-5 or 1-5?
Same about 1-6; is that 1-2-3-4-5-6 or 1-6?

When RPMs are high it takes longer and a harder push to downshift because you are trying to get two parts spinning at different speeds to come to the same speed. It just takes longer than it does at normal road speeds. Roe made a link that disengaged the clutch further for the same pedal travel; I have made a system for the non-adjustable pedals for the Gen 1. More clutch plate deparature reduces the drag and allows better shift action.

When you say "after 4th gear I cannot engage 3rd, but this time it was even worse" does that mean you never engage 3rd, or that it takes longer?

Yes, I meant to say I was going from 1st to 5 through each gear at a time 1-2-3-4-5 and same with 1-6.
During the track session I could not downshipf from 4th gear to 3rd, however, once I took the car off of the track I shifted no problem to all gears including 3rd.

 

[ROCKET62]

Did the clutch feel the same at the track at (hot) temperature?

 

[YLW DRM2]

Did the clutch feel the same at the track at (hot) temperature?

No change in the clutch behavior.

 

[Chrissss]

I gotta ask. Why not a member?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

No change in the clutch behavior.

There would not really be a change per se in the feel, but there can be a change in the amount of clutch actuation when the fluid, clutch and pressure plate are very hot. This would make it difficult to get into gear because the clutch never fully disengages at the higher loads and rpm's. Check the fluid and flush completely out then have a knowledgeable Technician bleed all the air from the system.

If this is not the problem then you may very well have syncro issues. I would also suggest using the factory fluid since not all fluids are compatible with the metals inside the transmissions kind of like coolant is not always universal.

 

[YLW DRM2]

There would not really be a change per se in the feel, but there can be a change in the amount of clutch actuation when the fluid, clutch and pressure plate are very hot. This would make it difficult to get into gear because the clutch never fully disengages at the higher loads and rpm's. Check the fluid and flush completely out then have a knowledgeable Technician bleed all the air from the system.

If this is not the problem then you may very well have syncro issues. I would also suggest using the factory fluid since not all fluids are compatible with the metals inside the transmissions kind of like coolant is not always universal.

Mark, my car has over 12K miles on it, would it make sense instead of checking for the clutch check and bleed the system to install whole new clutch? If so would you recommend to go with the OEM or something aftermarket? Also would installing MGW shifter help with my issue?

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

I would really check and bleed the system before thinking about the clutch itself. If that is not the solution then try an ATC or Spec clutch. As far as the shifter goes I would fix the current problem first then enjoy the MGW after.

Mark, my car has over 12K miles on it, would it make sense instead of checking for the clutch check and bleed the system to install whole new clutch? If so would you recommend to go with the OEM or something aftermarket? Also would installing MGW shifter help with my issue?

 

[YLW DRM2]

I would really check and bleed the system before thinking about the clutch itself. If that is not the solution then try an ATC or Spec clutch. As far as the shifter goes I would fix the current problem first then enjoy the MGW after.

Thank you Mark.

 

[RTTTTed]

When you changed the trans oil was there filings in the OLD oil? Brass or silver colored? Magnetic? Did you have an oil analysis done? Oil analysis is always the best chance to spot a problem without taking things apart.

Ted

 

[YLW DRM2]

When you changed the trans oil was there filings in the OLD oil? Brass or silver colored? Magnetic? Did you have an oil analysis done? Oil analysis is always the best chance to spot a problem without taking things apart.

Ted

No didnot see any noticeable particles in the "old" oil from tranny. Also, didn't do the oil analysis :-(.

 

[YLW DRM2]

I would really check and bleed the system before thinking about the clutch itself. If that is not the solution then try an ATC or Spec clutch. As far as the shifter goes I would fix the current problem first then enjoy the MGW after.

Mark, one thing came to my mind, if it is a clutch problem wouldn't I be hearing grinding noise when I was trying to push in 3rd gear down from the 4th? Because there was no grinding noise at all.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Part one of a shift is that the synchro (which is a friction clutch) and has to get to the speed of the gear. Part two is the slider envelopes the small teeth on the synchro and also the small teeth on the gear, making them spin at the same speed. I think when the clutch is not releasing fully, you are failing at part 1. Part 2 makes the grinding noise. Not speaking for Mark, of course!