Please Help!!!

[TexasSnake]

I've taken my 05 SRT to the same shop and have had multiple issues, including cracked pistons from detonation. I had the internals rebuilt with forged pistons and rods to help solve this problem along with larger injectors.

After less than 2,000 miles they are telling me that my rod bearings were going out because of an oil starvation problem. The #3 cylinder was the worst. I don't track my car and just occasionally have fun on the highway when I see a worthy competitor.

They are planning to install an upgraded bypass valve and oil pump rotors to solve the problem. Everyone I talk to says there's no way I should've ruined rod bearings within 2,000 miles of average or even hard driving.

You can see what all I have done to my car in my signature below.

I hope the picuture came out alright. Please offer me some experienced advice. I don't want to be taken advantage of and I need my car running and feel like they have me by the balls right now.

Please Help!!!

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

When the first problem ocoured did they replace the oil cooler and lines and clean out the engine and intake? It would not take much left over debris to cause repeat damage.

 

[Malu59RT]

Which shop are you taking it to in Houston to do the work? I would recommend A.R.T. in Buda Texas, or ship it up to Ross at Dynosaur performance. Both have great reputations for awesome customer service, and good work.

Also, do you have the swinging pickup in your oil pan (competition coupe style)?

 

[Flexx91]

Do you have 2000 miles on the car or have you put 2000 miles on the car since you've owned it? I've never heard of anyone having oil starvation problems from regular street use.

 

[plumcrazy]

Mark Jorgensen is on to something me thinks......

 

[hightest]

It doesn't look like there are any heat check marking on those bearings. The only culprit would be filings or oil contamination. This is only my opinion, but I'm sure others will agree.

 

[Viper X]

Time to change shops.

 

[TexasSnake]

Do you have 2000 miles on the car or have you put 2000 miles on the car since you've owned it? I've never heard of anyone having oil starvation problems from regular street use.

I've put 2000 miles on the car since the engine rebuild.

 

[TexasSnake]

Which shop are you taking it to in Houston to do the work? I would recommend A.R.T. in Buda Texas, or ship it up to Ross at Dynosaur performance. Both have great reputations for awesome customer service, and good work.

Also, do you have the swinging pickup in your oil pan (competition coupe style)?

I'm taking it to Fastlane in Houston.

 

[TexasSnake]

It doesn't look like there are any heat check marking on those bearings. The only culprit would be filings or oil contamination. This is only my opinion, but I'm sure others will agree.

I'm not an engine guru by any stretch of the word. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by this?

 

[Boxer12]

You can send the motor to Arrow Racing for a rebuild. They do the factory rebuilds. I think post #2 and 6 are telling you the same thing.

 

[Bobpantax]

I went to Fastlane's website. They have a video of a car that looks like yours doing a dyno run. The heading says:

Fastlane 06 Viper making 708 RWHP

Watch a Fastlane built blown 06 Dodge Viper make 708 RWHP on dyno.

When was the above run done? With stock internals or forged pistons? If it was with stock internals, it may have been running leaner than is safe to achieve 708 RWHP. If that was the case, when they changed the pistons there may have already been the early stages of the current problem that may have remained undetected. Also, what Mark J. said above.

 

[Viper Specialty]

1. You likely had debris in the oil, or possibly grit lift over from a hone job on the cylinders that wasnt cleaned out, furthering damage.

2. The Gen-3's have notoriously poor oil pickups, undersized oil pumps, and poor pressure relief valves.

3. You really dont want OEM Aluminum rod bearings on an 800+ horsepower car.

 

[BlackSnake99]

I went to Fastlane's website. They have a video of a car that looks like yours doing a dyno run. The heading says:

Fastlane 06 Viper making 708 RWHP

Watch a Fastlane built blown 06 Dodge Viper make 708 RWHP on dyno.

When was the above run done? With stock internals or forged pistons? If it was with stock internals, it may have been running leaner than is safe to achieve 708 RWHP. If that was the case, when they changed the pistons there may have already been the early stages of the current problem that may have remained undetected. Also, what Mark J. said above.

OP says his is an '05, but I agree it looks like the same car.

+1 on time to find a new shop!

PS-- they are charging $750 for a K&N CAI!?!? Aren't they like 300 bucks??

 

[ViperGeorge]

The oil cooler and lines should really be replaced after the engine failed. They can be flushed but it is much safer to simply replace them. Dodge's instructions for a rebuilt engine is to change the oil and filter after 200 miles to further insure that there is no left over debris in the oil.

I would also install wide band O2s in both banks and make sure you are not running lean. Under boost your AF ratio must be lower than 12:1 preferably in the mid to low 11s. Otherwise the engine can detonate. While the pistons and rods may now be able to take some more abuse your bearings can still get hammered. Oh one other thing, hopefully the pistons they put in are designed for a supercharger. The ring lands are lower, ie. further from the piston's top. This protects them from the higher pressures and temps that can result from a boosted application.

 

[shooter_t1]

When I was looking for a tuner in Houston to work on my S/C 06, I took the car to the above mentioned shop. After assuring me that he had "tuned about 200 Viper's", the tuner opened my drivers door, and was looking under the dash for the hood release. I promptly said "uh, it's ok, I'll take it somewhere else".


Might I suggest Late Model Racecraft in Houston. They treated me right, and have a good rep. Another member on here has also had his S/C Viper tuned at LMR. Maybe he will comment also.

 

[hightest]

I'm not an engine guru by any stretch of the word. Could you please elaborate on what you mean by this?

If oil starvation was the issue, the bearings will have a bluish to black color, as well as having any melted pieces of metal welded to the bearing. This is caused by extreme heat generated by a lack of lube. Those shells look like they were sanded down by 20 grit sandpaper.
Another indicator of oil starvation would have been significant ticking on the top end.
If you check your camshaft, it will help you in determining the cause. If it's bluish and redish, and relatively smooth, oil starvation would be most lkely. If its scored, and scratched, probably filings. Remember the cam is alot harder than the bearings.

 

[RTTTTed]

A normal bearing should last over 100,000 miles, even with 700hp (unless only raced).

Being a Gen 3, if supercharged then it's a Paxton and shares the oil with the engine as well. So if the engine failed then the cooler, lines and supercharger should have been cleaned, cleaned and cleaned some more. If this failure was caused by debris from the first failure then the engine should have had low oil pressure from the begginning with the pressure getting lower and lower as the bearing clearance became larger and larger.

I recommend that you have the oil tested for contaminents. Best money you could spend and it would really **** to ruin the reputation of a shop if this was caused by some loser adding sand or some other grit into your engine. I heard that valve grinding compound will do this while destroying every part within your engine. Only way to tell is with a chemical analysis. That would also mean that your Insurance company would be on the hook to pay for rebuilding.

You must feel that the shop knew what they were doing and have expected them to be reputable that you took it to them in the first place?

Oil Analysis is your only sure way to find/prove the failure reason.

Ted

 

[TexasSnake]

I went to Fastlane's website. They have a video of a car that looks like yours doing a dyno run. The heading says:

Fastlane 06 Viper making 708 RWHP

Watch a Fastlane built blown 06 Dodge Viper make 708 RWHP on dyno.

When was the above run done? With stock internals or forged pistons? If it was with stock internals, it may have been running leaner than is safe to achieve 708 RWHP. If that was the case, when they changed the pistons there may have already been the early stages of the current problem that may have remained undetected. Also, what Mark J. said above.

That is my car but it's an 05 and not an 06...their mistake. Yes, they ran it lean and adjusted the tune because the fuel wasn't keeping up with the air on the initial pull.

 

[TexasSnake]

If oil starvation was the issue, the bearings will have a bluish to black color, as well as having any melted pieces of metal welded to the bearing. This is caused by extreme heat generated by a lack of lube. Those shells look like they were sanded down by 20 grit sandpaper.
Another indicator of oil starvation would have been significant ticking on the top end.
If you check your camshaft, it will help you in determining the cause. If it's bluish and redish, and relatively smooth, oil starvation would be most lkely. If its scored, and scratched, probably filings. Remember the cam is alot harder than the bearings.

There was significant ticking on the top end. It sounded like it was coming from under the driver side valve cover.

 

[TexasSnake]

A normal bearing should last over 100,000 miles, even with 700hp (unless only raced).

Being a Gen 3, if supercharged then it's a Paxton and shares the oil with the engine as well. So if the engine failed then the cooler, lines and supercharger should have been cleaned, cleaned and cleaned some more. If this failure was caused by debris from the first failure then the engine should have had low oil pressure from the begginning with the pressure getting lower and lower as the bearing clearance became larger and larger.

I recommend that you have the oil tested for contaminents. Best money you could spend and it would really **** to ruin the reputation of a shop if this was caused by some loser adding sand or some other grit into your engine. I heard that valve grinding compound will do this while destroying every part within your engine. Only way to tell is with a chemical analysis. That would also mean that your Insurance company would be on the hook to pay for rebuilding.

You must feel that the shop knew what they were doing and have expected them to be reputable that you took it to them in the first place?

Oil Analysis is your only sure way to find/prove the failure reason.

Ted

The oil definitely had contaminants or metal in it as can be seen with the broken rod bearing. Is this what you are referring to or a sabatoge additive? I don't suspect for a second that an additive was added to intentionally damage the motor if that was what you were referring to.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

If you really want expert work and done right call Ben Keating at Port lavaca Dodge just southwest of Houston 361 552 2944 or 361 552 1115. He will set you up with his personal Viper tech. And tell him Mark sent you as he knows how particular I am for quality work.

 

[Blown99c5]

I recently have had the motor in my 03 rebuilt (spun/stacked bearing on #4) and was having a huge oil pressure problem. At idle after rebuild my car held basically 0 oil pressure, have changed sensors etc. I have had Arrow Racing build me a new timing cover with a modified PRV and a bored oil pump that increases flow and pressure that will be installed next week, I will give an update after install. After rebuild increased flow and pressure will help with the oil leaks or bleeds that the new bearings will create, as long as the motor was built to factory tolerances this should not be a huge issue however. I'm sure there are tons of shops in the United States that can do great builds on a viper motor, but if I ever have to have my re-built again, I will have it removed locally, shipped to Arrow and re-installed, just my 2 cents worth.

 

[1fastviper]

I recently have had the motor in my 03 rebuilt (spun/stacked bearing on #4) and was having a huge oil pressure problem. At idle after rebuild my car held basically 0 oil pressure, have changed sensors etc. I have had Arrow Racing build me a new timing cover with a modified PRV and a bored oil pump that increases flow and pressure that will be installed next week, I will give an update after install. After rebuild increased flow and pressure will help with the oil leaks or bleeds that the new bearings will create, as long as the motor was built to factory tolerances this should not be a huge issue however. I'm sure there are tons of shops in the United States that can do great builds on a viper motor, but if I ever have to have my re-built again, I will have it removed locally, shipped to Arrow and re-installed, just my 2 cents worth.

Why do i keep hearing about bearings spinning on 03s..What was your mileage when this happened? any power adders?

 

[TexasSnake]

This time I am getting a 3yr/12,000 mile warranty vs. the last one of 1yr/1,000 miles. I figured if something is going to go wrong again, it will definitely do it within that time frame. I'm insisting on agreeing on the details of the warranty. What I've learned is there is always an excuse that can be used as to why it's not a quality deficiency on the shop's part and has to be a variable that has nothing to do with their work like bad gas, factory oiling system deficiency, etc..., etc...

I would hate to be a contributing factor for an honorable and quality shop to get a bad reputation. I'm going ahead and paying for this oil upgrade that Arrow Racing is supposed to be doing, along with the damaged parts as soon as I get a warranty that I feel leaves no loop holes, unrightfully placing the responsibility back on me.

I will let everyone know if I eventually get a reliable car built from this shop. I don't have any doubts they are good with Mustangs, which is what they seem to specialize in; not saying that's all they do.

Just out of curiosity, what is the amount of hours normally invoiced for removing and reinstalling a viper motor with a paxton setup? I figured this would be a good Mark Jorgensen questions or any others with the experience.

Thanks a lot!

Thanks

 

[bluesrt]

how about throwing in a super bad new crankshaft

 

[TexasSnake]

how about throwing in a super bad new crankshaft

What significant advantages would this give me?

 

[bluesrt]

well for starters if they are turning it, they have to use undersized-bearings,therefore the need to shim to correctly match the new bearing to the crank for a perfect fit and finish.and as for the look of those bearings,it will need it. i my self would throw in the towel and tell them to put and (new standard size unturned crank in there with some good metal compound. i would maybe ask someone what the best one would be on this forum that has internal(VIPER)exsperience of this. if you do not get the crank shimmed correctly with the bearings(thats if its been turned)you are in for a time bomb.

 

[mjorgensen Woodhouse]

R&I of a Paxton motor if done by the book would be about 18-20 hours. If you get a shop to do it for less they may not be as careful as you would like...