Please put me out of my misery concerning headers! Help!

[jwwiii]

Hello out there;

I have an 01' RT-10 with K&N's, smooth tubes, and the Mopar "street exhaust". The Viper drives great. But; I want more sound and more power with no mechanical risk. I am leery; for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, ie...no free lunch!

I can write the check, and many tuners her are eager to take it. What are the negatives, the bad experiences, the "I wish I hadn't done that header thing...responses?

What did you love about buying headers? What do you regret?

Please let me know!

Jim

 

[Ulysses]

I have a '00. My biggest concern is the one you are already aware of. Possibly tripping the sensor and losing HP. Until that gets resolved, I'm sticking with cat-backs. Seems to me, with headers, the biggest thing to think about is fit. Some style headers will need you to do modifications to your car's structure to get them to fit. Others may not fit together when your ready to bolt down the whole shebang. Do a search on headers and read all about it. There's a lot of info on this site.

 

[treynor]

Headers: My $.02:
Upsides: more power and more midrange torque. More / better sounding exhaust.
Downsides: cost, vibration, possible check engine light.

All in all, if you want more performance & better sound without substantial risk, headers are the logical next step.

 

[LTHL VPR]

Well... keep in mind that the 2000-2001 Vipers don't seem to respond as well to exahust mods as the earlier cars. They use a diff. cam with less overlap,etc...
However you should still be able to see decent gains with a complete exhaust upgrade...headers and cat-back (30-40 rwhp).
If you will be keeping the engine stock, I would seriously consider the Belangers, or if you are more budget minded the Borlas should work all right too. If you plan on doing some engine mods, try the new CDI/Caldwell headers. I have seen a set and they look quite nice.
Either way you go, it can't hurt to check with JonB from Partsrack. He always gives competitive prices and usually has things in stock or can find them quickly.

 

[JonB]

There is no way I can compare / contrast all the differences.
Prices range from $1500 - $2900.....even more. Your SOUND motive says a lot...you future mods and HP goals are important. Ease of install issues for sure. Maybe you dont care....maybe you do.
But be aware. Heat issues are very important. '00-'01 have other issues already mentioned. Fix-rumors abound! Some are true.

JonB 360.837.3937 Pacific Time 830a - 530p

COMMERCIAL MESSAGE FOLLOWS:

If you want to chat, I honestly have NO bias. PartsRack makes a bare minimum on any you choose....$1500 or $2900. We do have a summer special in VCA Notes. Call me...No obligation of course, but if we chat for 20-30 minutes I hope I get at leaset a chance to sell 'em to you! If you DONT buy any...at least you got an informed, unbiased overview. Last month, I advised a customer two important issues on the $2900 headers he bought from another vendor. It was good news...He was pleased, but unaware! Thanks. JonB

 

[Mike H]

I have the Belanger setup, and have friends with it also. It makes definite HP gain, is easy to install, and they are quick to help out with any tech info. Tom Welch handles the line. Interesting at Mid Ohio Viper Days, it was mentioned that the cars dynoed with the belanger headers seemed to consistantly make the most HP.

 

[Kid97GTS]

Couple points that guys who drop the car off to have headers put on may not know. The Viper frames aren't exactly identical from car to car, and most headers aren't either. Thus, to avoid the headers slapping against the frame when the engine torques under power (or to just get the header to fit) the installer may shim the engine to get the right fit. I'm still not sure how I feel about this - probably no big deal, but I don't like the idea of eyeballing the shims to try and get the right fit. Also, every header I've dealt with on various applications (Viper excluded) has needed to be tightened up occassionally to avoid an exhaust leak (noticed by annoying ticking sound). I would assume the Viper headers would also have to be re-torqued at some point, but I don't know how much of a hassle this would be.

By the way, I was leaning toward the Belanger set up myself, but after seeing the CDI headers and hearing various opinions regarding header applications, I think CDI may get my cash - very nice looking product (but $$$$$) - if you don't believe me, just ask Driving School.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

It's Berlanger from BTR, or Caldwell exhaust for me. Maybe I'll get one of each?

Does anyone have the # to Caldwell? The number (619) 599-8020 listed in the performance section is no longer in service.

 

[treynor]

You can get Caldwell headers from Parts Rack or from Archer Racing. There are undoubtedly other sources as well.

 

[Tom Welch]

Cornsnake,

Regret you ask?,

I think that the biggest regret of all is when you are laying on your death bed and thoughts are running through your head of all of the things that you wish you would have done and would do if you could just get up! That is the way I look at EVERY day.

Im not taking anything with me when I go, just like JFK, Mantle, Nixon, Princess Di and the rest.

So, am I going to let a light bulb on a dashboard control my destiny? Heck NO!

You bolt ANY header on your 01 car and you WILL get the check engine light. So why not get the most power for your dollar? I guarantee it! Who else does?

Tom....... Quazy Viper Tuner,Airline transport pilot, family man, part time motivational speaker!
Http://btrviper.com
352-622-6219

Live every day like its your last, and don't sweat the small stuff! You will be happier for it.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

Glenn's direct line is 760 598-6565.

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tom Welch:

So, am I going to let a light bulb on a dashboard control my destiny? Heck NO!
Tom....... Airline transport pilot..........
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, Tom, but I could NOT resist!! 20-years w/ EAL !

The problem of ignoring instrument warnings on the ground is that if some OTHER problem arises in your Viper, it will never be noticed, because the light is crying wolf all the time...and any NEW problem is therefore concealed

 

[MES]

I put Belanger headers on my car myself. They went on real easy and fit great, no frame rub or any other problems except..... the 90 degree turns that go from the collector to under the side sills, they did not fit so great. They were not flanged and therefore did not fit well onto the header collector. It really didn't bother me because I had the hole system welded up at a muffler shop. But never the less, I thought they could have had a better design for that.

Also if you do-it-yourself expect the exhaust to leak. The band clamps that go around the 3" exhaust pipes don't work very well, or at least they leaked on mine.

 

[Tom Welch]

For Jon B.

My point was that the original poster seems to be holding back on enhancing his car because of the fault light caused by a better flowing exhaust system which is actually improving the lifespan of his powerplant.(another factory catch-all that needs to be addressed)

What about every one with a 98' and newer viper that picks up the Mopar Performance Catalogue and orders "their" headers and exhaust, has it installed by their dealer, drives out with their new sounding car only to have the check engine light come on.......for factory authorized upgrades!??

Jon, you of all people(having worked for EAL) should understand the difference between "amber" and "red" lights.

The light with regards to exhaust on newer vipers is merely a nuisance(sp)and can be eliminated with ECU's, cats, and simulators......should it be of that much concern. A more serious problem will manifest itself in other more noticable ways, some of which may not ever signal the check engine light.

I suggest to ALL prospective header purchasers that you have your codes checked(98'and newer)when you take your car to the dealer for reqular servicing and/or oil changes. I can't think of anything hooked to the service engine light that won't run a few thousand miles between service intervals.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

"if we had some ham we could have some ham and eggs, IF we had some eggs!"

 

[JonB]

Tom, I agree with you...I just thought it humorous that an airline pilot was saying "I don't let a little warning light control my destiny!"

I STILL thinks its kinda funny even after 3-4 reads!

[I also like "Pay No Attention To That Man Behind The Curtain!"]

 

[jwwiii]

Dear Viper friends;

Thank you for all of your responses. Yes, I am concerned about the consequences of installing headers on my 01'. It's not the money, it's the potential (or inevitable?) chain of other things that happen that concerns me.

I believe Mr. Welch had a good suggestion; "live every day like it's your last". However, living with less stress and more security is great too!

You also all need to know that I have my name on the list for an 03'. This makes me a little less prone to do the headers until I get some idea of when the new Vipers will start appearing. If they don't show up for 16 months or so I will probably go ahead and do the headers.

Have you folks had any real problems after your engine warning lights came on? Does the light indicate that my headers are causing a problem, or is it the catalyst warming o2 thing that Jon B mentioned?

By the way; Jon B. has been a great guy to talk with, and his service is excellent. The Belangers sound like the crowd favorite on this board. How do any of you like the Hennessy product? Good fit? Good service? Any other tips for me would be great. I did not know too much about the engine shimming thing... sounds like I am opening a can of worms, and that is my concern.

Would all of you buy headers again after what you have experienced? That is my real answer. Regardless of price, are the hassles/tweaks/warranty worth the risk?

Thanks as always for your time and knowledge. Nicest bunch of enthusiasts I could imagine. When is the 03' going to start being built and shipping? Do you think I should keep my 01'?

Jim

 

[Kevin ACR]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I suggest to ALL prospective header purchasers that you have your codes checked(98'and newer)when you take your car to the dealer for reqular servicing and/or oil changes. I can't think of anything hooked to the service engine light that won't run a few thousand miles between service intervals.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I for one am waiting until a new ecu comes out to address the light. I don't and absolutely won't be taking my car to the local dealership for anything other than warranty out of necessity. Dealership for an oil change, c'mon!?!

I would buy headers today if they didn't set a light, or if the o2 sims worked, or if the ecu worked. I wouldn't be comfortable driving around with the light on. It would be ok if the car had red and amber, so that I could still see if something else went wrong, um but it doens't.

 

[Tom Welch]

Kevin,

What if your serpentine belt comes off? Lots of advance warning for that! Clutch goes out, leaky injector(may in some instances trigger ce light but not all). My transmission quit shifting down from 6th to 5th....no advance warning.....no light. My intake gasket pulled through(common on 96-97 vipers)with NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT. I only noticed it through inspection after momentary high idle. This could have led to serious problems from a lean condition at WOT.

Im not positive(used to seeing airplane annunciator panels alot more than my vipers) and im over 1000 miles from my car at the moment but isn't the battery and oil pressure light RED on the information cluster?

Lots of folks take their vipers to the dealer for oil changes. They may not have the time to do things themselves and/or may not be inclined to perform even the basic services. I for one do perform my own services...i don't have a check engine light with my headers either.

Again, lets not forget the original terminology for these lights
"IDIOT LIGHTS". Buy a cadillac and the light goes off just because you have so many miles on the car(built in from the factory).....scares the novice into the dealership to spend money when no repair is needed. Remember, in todays internet economy where consumers can buy a car at dealer invoice, its the back end(service department) that makes most of the dealer profits, and they do it to a degree by charging to fix built "light" illuminations.

Thats enough free advice on this topic for today.

Tom
Http://btrviper.com

 

[Marv S]

Here's a pic of the CDI and the Flex connector. And while the Borla cost less a post by Dan Cragin puts out some issues with them
http://vca1.viperclub.org/ubb/Forum24/HTML/000085.html

You must be registered for see images

<FONT COLOR="#ff0000" SIZE="1" FACE="Verdana, Arial">This message has been edited by Marv S on 06-15-2001 at 12:12 PM</font>

 

[Tom Welch]

Marv,

That 5 into 1 collector looks like a frame rubb looking for a mate!

Tom

 

[JonB]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by treynor:
You can get Caldwell headers from Parts Rack or from Archer Racing.............
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And, most of you can also avoid local sales tax from us both....and others! Tax is Spendy on header/cat-back combo!