Proud new owner with questions of course

ebg338

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First off thanks to everyone for this excellent forum. I've found a ton of information that has been invaluable in my finding and purchasing my first viper.

So first the car...
1995 viper, emerald green, ~19,800 miles. Completely stock except K&N air filter. Excellent condition. Also found out it's one of the last 300 with side exhaust produced - pretty cool. The paint on this car is a knockout. I've had many cars (Z06, Lotus Elise, 2 Cobras - replicas unfortunately, 68 Vette, M3's etc., etc) and I have to say I believe I've found my favorite.

Now the questions. I plan on changing all fluids and wanted to make sure I've got it right.

Brake and clutch - Mopar DOT4
Power steering - Mopar Power Steering Fluid MS-5931
Differential - Mopar PN4874469 75w-140 w/ limited slip additive (P/N 4318060AB)
Antifreeze - Mopar Antifreeze (green, 3 yr formula)
Transmission - Mopar PN 4874459 75-85
Engine oil - Mobil 1 0W-40
Oil Filter - Mopar Oil Filter 5037836AB

I've also ordered the service manual off Ebay.

Any additional recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks
 

Mopar Steve

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Great color combo. I have a fondness for gen 1 Vipers, I've owned two. Everything you have listed looks good, the oil has been discussed here many many times, I would suggest going with a 5w, but that is just a preference. Good luck with your toy. Have you joined the club yet?
 

CEJ

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Congrats on getting the green...what a classy color.

Antifreeze...why not use the Mopar 5-year coolant? Do a drain/flush/refill and you're good for 5 years. Not sure if the Gen I's have the overflow tank behind the fascia, but you'd want to pump that empty and flush it too before refilling with the 5-year coolant.
 
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ebg338

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Steve, I do plan on joining the club. Thanks Ken - I'll do the plugs/wires and CEJ I'll go with the 5year. Not sure on the overflow but I'll have a look. Thanks all for the responses.
 

TowDawg

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The list looks good, but if you plan on tracking the car (or even driving it hard a decent amount), I would use at least Motul 600 brake fluid in the brakes and clutch. With the higher boiling point, it will hold up better. You might also consider a 15W50 engine oil if you plan on tracking it.
 

Dan Cragin

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Use 10w30 or 15w50 if you track. 0w40 is for the later cars.
 
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Venomiss

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Steve, I do plan on joining the club. Thanks Ken - I'll do the plugs/wires and CEJ I'll go with the 5year. Not sure on the overflow but I'll have a look. Thanks all for the responses.
Welcome!
Join the VCA as a newbie online after October 1st and receive Oct, Nov, & Dec along with all of 2013.
Choose whatever region you are closest to either VCA Illinois or VCA Gateway.
 

Allan

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The list looks good, but if you plan on tracking the car (or even driving it hard a decent amount), I would use at least Motul 600 brake fluid in the brakes and clutch. With the higher boiling point, it will hold up better. You might also consider a 15W50 engine oil if you plan on tracking it.
This is funny, you and I think alike, but we need to realize that not everybody is an addicted track rat!.........yet.
 
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ebg338

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Thanks for all the comments. Tires are new, at least they were until last weekend. Lets just say I've broken them in thoroughly over the last week.
 

Mopar Boy

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Congrats and welcome to the Viper Nation!

Great group of folks here!

Be sure to join the VCA....there is no other car club like it in the world! You will be amazed at what places you end up and where once you start playing with the club! :)

Be safe and watch the road temps this time of year....anything lower than 60 F blacktop temp can make for interesting traction. take your time to learn the limits or the tail will come around on ya! And we have all been there! LOL
Robert
 

schabiazabi

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I will surprise you and everyone else. Looking at what you posted I am going to challenge all those fluids. I'm not saying I have an answer for everything, but just like with any other car there is a lot of info that is either pure advertizing, myth, or outright B.S. Your stuff will work, no doubt, but it does not mean it's best. As a matter fact if you look at each fluid and name Mopar next to it, you know it is mathematically impossible for Mopar to be the best at everything.

I'm going to do a full research and post what I find is best, but before I do that let me tell you few things:

1. Mobile 1 is not the best, not even close. I run in Spec Miata and in Formula 1000. From there I learned from guys that do this for a living and they will tell you the only oil that has the best lab proven results is Schaeffer Supreme. That is what I run in my sensitive cars. My daily driven machines are running Mobile 1, because I have a good deal on that oil.

2. Your Antifreeze will work, but it's not even close to being correct. Flush the engine with BG cleaner first. Right after that flush your engine with kitchen vinegar. Then, fill the system with: distilled water, water wetter, correct % of Toyota Red coolant. For racing do not add any coolant at all.

* 3. For brake fluid do this: Castrol SRF Brake Fluid. Make sure to pump the fluid from the rear upward. Bleed the master cylinder on the bench.
* 4. Clutch: Castrol SRF Brake Fluid

5. Flush power steering system with at least 10 qt of fluid. Build a system (buckets, hoses, valve) that flows the fluid to your pump while you move the steering wheel. Bleed the system by rotating your steering wheel (raise the car) 40 times. That's right 40 times minimum.


That is my start, I will need to figure out more about the Viper in order to come up with the best fluids for the rest. Give me some time. The Mopar solution will work, but there are better.

* if that is too expensive (it is) buy this: Castrol GT LMA Brake Fluid
** drop all fluids every race
 
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schabiazabi

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Update on Differential Oil. Data sheets do not lie. Here is from best to worse:

Viscosity Index
1. Redline 190 (188 without friction modifiers)
2. Royal Purple 188
3. Mopar (Repackaged Valvoline) 183
4. Amsoil 180
5. Mobile 1 175

Do not buy any expensive dealer crap. Red line is the most stable and it comes with the LS. You can add your own LS if you wish.
 
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schabiazabi

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Transmission Oil: RedLine MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil, do not buy Redline 75W85 as no hypoid gear oil can be used in Viper transmissions.
Power Steering Fluid: this one is tricky as there is very little data out there. Either Amsoil or Redline is best. Do not use automatic transmission fluid.

So here is the final list as of 2012:

Engine Oil: Schaeffer Supreme
Transmission Oil: RedLine MT-85 75W85 GL-4 Gear Oil
Differential Oil: RedLine Synthetic 75W140 Gear Oil with FM
Power Steering: Redline or Amsoil
Brake Fluid: Castrol SRF
Cooling System Fluid: Distilled Water (no other water is allowed) with Toyota Red Coolant and Water Wetter.
Windshield Washer: The simplest possible as others damage paint, plastic and other stuff.
Oil Filter: Who knows, maybe WIX with AMSOIL By-Pass Filter

There you have it. These fluids will be cheaper than at the dealer and your car will feel much better. I run mostly those fluids with my Supras.

* you can add a power steering filter
** these fluids are perfect for normal driving as well as for racing
 

LifeIsGood

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Hey schabiazabi...you need to create a thread in the 'General Viper Discussion' forum letting us know who you are, why you're here...not personal info, but some real background stuff. I've been on here for 4-5 years and fluid recommendations (and there are tons of threads on this topic already) have been made by guys that have been dealing with vipers since their inception.

I don't doubt any of your info, but it won't carry much weight here until we know more about you.
 

Dan Cragin

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Its funny, I have dealt with many lubricants over the years and what is good for one car many not be good for another. Believe it or not Mopar has done a fairly good job with its lubricants. Some race lubricants are good for racecars but not for streetcars. I have been a victim of "snake oils" and additives. Everyone wants to have some magic liquid that will make a car run better, most are just hype and a few are good.

With the Viper, I have learned what works and what does not by seeing what happens with these various lubricants under street and track use over the past 15 years. The biggest consideration is temperature on the Viper; lubricants must be able to take the heat. Here are some basic observations.

Engine oil- Too be honest, I am not the biggest fan of synthetics, but they are crucial for the Viper. Club racers often see oil temperatures over 260 degrees, petroleum based oils just cannot deal with that. The best synthetics are those approved for European standards, which are higher than our standards. The new 5-40 Pennzoil Ultra that is designed for the new Viper is one of the best. It can be used in all the earlier models as well. The wide viscosity range makes it good for cold starts and high load. For race use, race oils offer more load protection and they have additive packages that can protect bearings if they temporarily starve for oil. These oils are primarily used on cars without catalyst as they contain high amounts of phosphorus and zinc, which can harm catalyst. So for a road car these may not be so good. The best of both worlds is the Motul 20-50 race oil, its has all the benefits of a race oil but does not seem to harm catalyst. Its higher viscosity rating would not be best for short trips and stop and go driving though.

Transmission Oil- There are several options on the lubricant for the Viper depending on the year model. It shifts best with Dexron ATF or ATF plus 4 for street use. Castrol Syntorque was factory fill for the 1997-2002 models, 2008-2010 use ATF plus 4. Syntorque's increased viscosity reduced the “neutral gear rattle” an annoying noise caused by the rough idle of the 1996-1999 Gen 2 camshaft. This oil made shifting a bit harder until it is up to temperature, it lasts longer (does not break down with heat) and makes the 5[SUP]th[/SUP] and 6[SUP]th[/SUP] gears less likely to overheat and fail during continued high speed runs (this we learned at the Silver State 90 mile races). Tremec recommends using Valvoline ATF in all their street applications but each end use manufacturer has their own lubricant. Some aftermarket lubricants make the transmission shift better but do not have the additives for the Viper specific syncroblockers and cause premature wear, so the transmission shifts great until it fails. For high hp applications that are run hard, the factory lubricants do not have the shear strength to hold the gear load. That’s when you need to run an application specific transmission fluid. These lubricants are designed specifically for load and heat, drag racing and road racing lubricants differ. Transmissions rebuilt by for specific applications come with a fluid recommendation.

Differential Oil- The differential has changed through the generations from a Dana 44 to a Super 44 and three differing types of limited slip units. The fluid has always remained the same. Differential temps go sky high with no airflow over the rear end and synthetic oil is needed.
There are petroleum-based lubricants that have much high shear strength and reduce gear wear, but they get so hot they melt the rubber diffential seals and cause leaks. Whatever you use make sure it’s a synthetic and has a friction modifier for the LSD. In aftermarket rear ends such are a Quaife, OS Giken or Truc Trac you might want to use manufacturer specific fluid. OS Giken has its own lubricant that you must use. Factory fill or Synergen seem to be the best for street and racing applications. If you race and do not have a differential cooler you made need to change the fluid more often.


Brake Fluid- You should change the brake fluid every 2 years or whenever it appears discolored. Use DOT 4 brake fluid for the street or track. In regards to SRF brake fluid, I only use this in racecars that have a brake heat issue and have a history of boiling the fluid. SRF is highly hydroscopic and will absorb moisture quite easily; therefore it requires more frequent fluid changes. What makes this fluid so good is also what makes it not so good for a streetcar. Corrosion in the brake system can happen with SRF if you do not service it every year.

Coolant- Servicing the cooling system on the Viper is very important. 1992-2002 models should have the coolant changed every 2 years and 2003-2010 models should be changed every three years. These engines run hot and are very susceptible to corrosion and oxidation. Poor maintenance can lead to leaky radiators, head gaskets and sticky thermostats. When servicing the cooling system always remove the block plugs to get all the coolant out. Use a 50/50 mix. 1992-2002 use Green coolant and 2003-2010 use red coolant. I suggest adding an anti-corrosion additive with a service. On racecars most tracks mandate only water in the cooling system. Do not use straight water and water wetter; this combination will cause extreme oxidation. Dodge’s engine warranty center (Arrow) has seen many a block ruined by this. The only way to avoid this is to include an anti-corrosive additive like that sold by BG or Wynn’s. My experience with Evan’s cool and other waterless coolants has not been good either. It seems to react poorly with rubber parts making hoses swell.

Power Steering- The power steering fluid should be changed every 12,000 miles or when it appears discolored or burnt. It also needs to be synthetic as the fluid can easily boil when tracking the car. This will melt the seals in the pump and can spew fluid onto the exhaust manifold and cause a fire. Factory fill or Red line work well. I found Royal Purple easily boils and the seals go out. ATF 4 as used in the 2004-2010 models works really well and can be used in the earlier models as well.

Hope this helps, This has been my experience, your may differ.
 

schabiazabi

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LifeIsGood, I will create a thread once I perform what I suggested above on my own car.

As far as this goes:
I've been on here for 4-5 years and fluid recommendations (and there are tons of threads on this topic already) have been made by guys that have been dealing with vipers since their inception.
- what can I say, time means nothing. I was just talking to one of the major Viper store owners who was telling me to press lower A-arm ball joints out and replace them. That sums it up. Nothing against the guy.

As far as Mopar and lubricants go; Mopar does not make lubricants for the most part. Mopar's (repackaged) fluids will work, but instead of looking at brands start looking at the Material Standards (example: trans oil is MS-9070) required for each application. Based on those standards you can select the proper fluids and compare them looking at their data sheets. Pretty logical if you ask me.
 

Tom Sessions

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Very Interesting. New owners looking at this please look to the folks that have been here for sometime and are well respected within the viper family for advise.
Based on some things here it shows little or no experience with street cars. SRF in A street car really.In a full on racecar sure. Yes we all know Mopar does not make it own oils. But for most owners they work very well for the intended purpose. Chrysler DOT 4 for the brake and clutch is a very good choice for most folks. (have you ever priced SRF) Have you ever opened up a engine run on red line. Talk about a dirty motor. Not a pretty sight. And as Dan stated Water wetter in a viper motor not the best choice either.Have seen this first had. Will never use it again in a viper motor. Just my opinions.


I will surprise you and everyone else. Looking at what you posted I am going to challenge all those fluids. I'm not saying I have an answer for everything, but just like with any other car there is a lot of info that is either pure advertizing, myth, or outright B.S. Your stuff will work, no doubt, but it does not mean it's best. As a matter fact if you look at each fluid and name Mopar next to it, you know it is mathematically impossible for Mopar to be the best at everything.

I'm going to do a full research and post what I find is best, but before I do that let me tell you few things:

1. Mobile 1 is not the best, not even close. I run in Spec Miata and in Formula 1000. From there I learned from guys that do this for a living and they will tell you the only oil that has the best lab proven results is Schaeffer Supreme. That is what I run in my sensitive cars. My daily driven machines are running Mobile 1, because I have a good deal on that oil.

2. Your Antifreeze will work, but it's not even close to being correct. Flush the engine with BG cleaner first. Right after that flush your engine with kitchen vinegar. Then, fill the system with: distilled water, water wetter, correct % of Toyota Red coolant. For racing do not add any coolant at all.

* 3. For brake fluid do this: Castrol SRF Brake Fluid. Make sure to pump the fluid from the rear upward. Bleed the master cylinder on the bench.
* 4. Clutch: Castrol SRF Brake Fluid

5. Flush power steering system with at least 10 qt of fluid. Build a system (buckets, hoses, valve) that flows the fluid to your pump while you move the steering wheel. Bleed the system by rotating your steering wheel (raise the car) 40 times. That's right 40 times minimum.


That is my start, I will need to figure out more about the Viper in order to come up with the best fluids for the rest. Give me some time. The Mopar solution will work, but there are better.

* if that is too expensive (it is) buy this: Castrol GT LMA Brake Fluid
** drop all fluids every race
 

slysnake

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1995 viper, emerald green, ~19,800 miles.
It continues to amaze me that people have these cars and don't drive them. Congratulations on your new toy man...... and, for God's sake, put some miles on it. :)
 
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ebg338

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Slysnake, I'm definitely working on it - put 400 miles on it in 2 weeks. Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. I also have no plans to track the car. Ended up giving Chuck Tator a call. Now I understand why he has the reputation he does on this forum. Spent a good 15 min on the phone with me and walked me through everything - what to check, fluids, etc. etc. Ended up buying a fuel filter from him and plan to send any future business his way that I can.

Even sent me a T-shirt. Just wish he was located in the midwest:)
 

Mopar Boy

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As a matter fact if you look at each fluid and name Mopar next to it, you know it is mathematically impossible for Mopar to be the best at everything.

Well....... As you stated yourself, Mopar does not make their own fluids. That allows them to go to various manufacturers and select the best of what each company has to offer so they can offer it to their customers. If you look at the actual manufacturers bottling the stuff labeled Mopar, its from all different makers. And having seen the tests and knowing the people that perform them at Mopar, I am confident they do well for my vehicles. Sure maybe if I was doing full track, all the time GTS-R style I may look for something additional, but for 99.9% of people.....


Dan and Tom, thanks for spending the time to answer the original posters questions with your experience.

EBG in the event you did not know, Dan and Tom are two of the most respected Viper techs out there that have been around for years. I would trust info from them any day of the week. You are lucky to have both of them post here with their info!

Also glad to hear you got a hold of Chuck. He is also one of those techs the Viper world is lucky to have. :)
 

InjectTheVenom

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I expect the leader of the green nation VYPR BYT 94, also known as Kermit to personally inspect this post shortly.
 

schabiazabi

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Have you ever opened up a engine run on red line. Talk about a dirty motor. Not a pretty sight.
- I'm sorry, but please show me where did I say to use Red Line oil in the motor.
 

VYPR BYT 94

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Well, getting back on track to what's important...

Congratz on the sweet ride! :1up:
Glad you're driving it.
Might I just say you excellent taste in cars? :D

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Please do a search on tires on this forum. Alot of info here that could save your life.
Enjoy the new ride.

Mike
 
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