PS steering woes - not ps pulley

[SE7EN]

Well I have been working on my 2000 RT/10 that I recently purchased. Upon purchase/acquisition the previous owner stated difficulties with the power steering, which I attributed to a cracked pulley from a quick visual inspection (still the oe plastic unit)as the pump made no evident bearing noise.

Yesterday, pulled the pump, swap to the roe metal pulley and billet bracket. Same result, still no power steering or if there is its there it is very very little.

Cranked the wheel multiple times to **** in the new fluid, and it bubbles some and then seemed to hold the proper fluid levels...

The confusing part is the previous owner provided a receipt for a new pump (used) so it makes me hesitant to believe it is the pump unless it was never installed. I do realize its the pump or the rack... Has any one had any similar issues? Or has any experienced steering rack failures, pump failures that you may be able to describe?

Thanks to any members whom lend advice!

Regards

 

[aacrewchief]

If the car is drivable, then it sounds like everything is hooked up properly and the rack is not screwed up. There is a procedure to follow when bleeding the system and it is generally not a simple turn the wheels left and right "multiple times". Run the steering wheel with the car started (dont do this on dry pavement, make sure the front is off the ground or you are moving down the road). After stopping, and turning the car off, remove your power steering cap and look to see if there are any bubbles, or if it looks like fizz in there (like a fresh poured can of soda onto ice). If there are any bubbles, whatsoever, it is not properly bled. Bubbles = air, not good and could easily be your problem.

 

[SE7EN]

If the car is drivable, then it sounds like everything is hooked up properly and the rack is not screwed up. There is a procedure to follow when bleeding the system and it is generally not a simple turn the wheels left and right "multiple times". Run the steering wheel with the car started (dont do this on dry pavement, make sure the front is off the ground or you are moving down the road). After stopping, and turning the car off, remove your power steering cap and look to see if there are any bubbles, or if it looks like fizz in there (like a fresh poured can of soda onto ice). If there are any bubbles, whatsoever, it is not properly bled. Bubbles = air, not good and could easily be your problem.

What is the proper procedure for bleeding the system then? I can preform this task this evening to check.

 

[aacrewchief]

I don't remember the EXACT procedure, just do a google search for bleeding a PS pump system, it's pretty much the same procedure for all cars. Last time I did one it took about 30-40 mintutes just to get all the bubbles out. You will have to have the front wheels off the ground. If I remember correctly, you do most of it with the car off. You have to turn the wheel lock to lock which moves the fluid and check the reservoir level at different times during the process, the level should not change regardless of wheel position. Sometimes it can be a little time consuming so don't get frustrated. Hope this helps.

 

[SE7EN]

I don't remember the EXACT procedure, just do a google search for bleeding a PS pump system, it's pretty much the same procedure for all cars. Last time I did one it took about 30-40 mintutes just to get all the bubbles out. You will have to have the front wheels off the ground. If I remember correctly, you do most of it with the car off. You have to turn the wheel lock to lock which moves the fluid and check the reservoir level at different times during the process, the level should not change regardless of wheel position. Sometimes it can be a little time consuming so don't get frustrated. Hope this helps.

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing I will jack the car up, and let it run and crank the wheel and inspect the fluid for bubbles and or bubbling.

Or I will try this method outlined by alldata

1. Raise the front end of the vehicle off the ground enough to allow the front wheels to freely turn.
2. Remove the return hose from the pump.
3. Plug the return hose port on the pump.
4. Place the open end of the return hose into a large container to catch the draining fluid. WARNING: ENGINE WILL BE RUNNING AS FLUID IS ADDED TO PUMP FLUID RESERVOIR. TO AVOID PERSONAL INJURY, BEWARE OF MOVING ENGINE PARTS. CAUTION: Do not reuse any drained power steering fluid. Use only fresh Mopar power steering fluid or equivalent.
5. While an assistant is carefully filling the pump reservoir with fresh power steering fluid, start the engine.
6. With the engine running at idle, turn the wheel back and forth. CAUTION: Do not contact or hold the wheel against the steering stops.
7. Run approximately a quart of fluid through the system, then stop the engine and install the return hose back on the pump.
8. Fill the system with fresh fluid and perform the Power Steering Pump Initial Operation found under, Power Steering Pump, Service and Repair, Service Procedures.
9. Start the engine and allow it to run for fifteen minutes, then stop the engine.
10. Remove the return hose from the pump and plug the return hose port on the pump.
11. Pour fresh power steering fluid into the reservoir and check the fluid draining from the return hose for contamination. If the fluid is still contaminated, disassemble and clean the power steering components as necessary, then repeat the system flush again as outlined above.
12. Install the return hose back on the pump, then perform the Power Steering Pump Initial Operation procedure.

 

[aacrewchief]

Thanks, I was thinking the same thing I will jack the car up, and let it run and crank the wheel and inspect the fluid for bubbles and or bubbling.

Or I will try this method outlined by alldata

1. Raise the front end of the vehicle off the ground enough to allow the front wheels to freely turn.
2. Remove the return hose from the pump.
3. Plug the return hose port on the pump.
4. Place the open end of the return hose into a large container to catch the draining fluid. WARNING: ENGINE WILL BE RUNNING AS FLUID IS ADDED TO PUMP FLUID RESERVOIR. TO AVOID PERSONAL INJURY, BEWARE OF MOVING ENGINE PARTS. CAUTION: Do not reuse any drained power steering fluid. Use only fresh Mopar power steering fluid or equivalent.
5. While an assistant is carefully filling the pump reservoir with fresh power steering fluid, start the engine.
6. With the engine running at idle, turn the wheel back and forth. CAUTION: Do not contact or hold the wheel against the steering stops.
7. Run approximately a quart of fluid through the system, then stop the engine and install the return hose back on the pump.
8. Fill the system with fresh fluid and perform the Power Steering Pump Initial Operation found under, Power Steering Pump, Service and Repair, Service Procedures.
9. Start the engine and allow it to run for fifteen minutes, then stop the engine.
10. Remove the return hose from the pump and plug the return hose port on the pump.
11. Pour fresh power steering fluid into the reservoir and check the fluid draining from the return hose for contamination. If the fluid is still contaminated, disassemble and clean the power steering components as necessary, then repeat the system flush again as outlined above.
12. Install the return hose back on the pump, then perform the Power Steering Pump Initial Operation procedure.

That sounds like the method you would use to flush and refill the system, you shouldnt need to do all of that unless you think your system is contaminated. There should be a fairly simple procedure to bleed the system without removing any hoses or plugging any ports. Checking for bubbles after driving is your first step...

 

[Black Moon]

That sounds like the method you would use to flush and refill the system, you shouldnt need to do all of that unless you think your system is contaminated. There should be a fairly simple procedure to bleed the system without removing any hoses or plugging any ports. Checking for bubbles after driving is your first step...

I agree. I had mine apart recently to install a new pump (reman. $77 at Advance Auto). Re connected, filled, turned wheel back and forth, added fluid, turned wheel, no bubbles, done. Maybe a knowledgeable tech will jump in here.

Service manual confirms. No need to disconnect. It does say raise vehicle with engine off and turn wheel all the way to the left, slowly fill and cycle back and forth 20 times. Set down, start engine, run for 2 minutes, slowly rotate wheel in both directions. If proper level and power ASSIST then you are done.

Remember this is power assisted rack and pinion. Sitting still it is semi hard to turn the wheel. Nothing like full ( one finger) power steering.

Let us know.

 

[aacrewchief]

I agree. I had mine apart recently to install a new pump (reman. $77 at Advance Auto). Re connected, filled, turned wheel back and forth, added fluid, turned wheel, no bubbles, done. Maybe a knowledgeable tech will jump in here.

Service manual confirms. No need to disconnect. It does say raise vehicle with engine off and turn wheel all the way to the left, slowly fill and cycle back and forth 20 times. Set down, start engine, run for 2 minutes, slowly rotate wheel in both directions. If proper level and power ASSIST then you are done.

Remember this is power assisted rack and pinion. Sitting still it is semi hard to turn the wheel. Nothing like full ( one finger) power steering.

Let us know.

Yep, that sounds just like what I did on another car of mine, which was the fix for a PS pump problem it had when I bought it. The same procedure will work on just about any car with power steering.

 

[SE7EN]

Well the system bleed out last night and still the same result, so I feel now that the pump internally is damaged, and seems to not be working.

I am maybe guessing that the bearing and impeller on the inside of the pump are broken causing the feel of zero p/s. I understand the power assist system, even with power assist you do not need to hand over hand crank till your for arms cramp to move the wheels at slow speed.

Pump it is, and if you can get a reman at advanced auto for 77 dollars that is the ticket.

 

[Black Moon]

Well the system bleed out last night and still the same result, so I feel now that the pump internally is damaged, and seems to not be working.

I am maybe guessing that the bearing and impeller on the inside of the pump are broken causing the feel of zero p/s. I understand the power assist system, even with power assist you do not need to hand over hand crank till your for arms cramp to move the wheels at slow speed.

Pump it is, and if you can get a reman at advanced auto for 77 dollars that is the ticket.

It's the punp only no tank. Actually it was $72 with my commercial discount. Seperating it is easy when you look at it. Now I'm talking Gen3 so it may be different but there are 2 clips that slide on once the tank and pump are mated. You will have to tap them on/ off with a hammer and flat punch. New 'o' rings are included.

One more test you could do is follow the pressure line to the rack and disconnect it and place in a container. Start car and turn wheel. Manual says 70-100 psi so whether it has pressure or not should be obvious.

Keep us posted.

 

[SE7EN]

It's the punp only no tank. Actually it was $72 with my commercial discount. Seperating it is easy when you look at it. Now I'm talking Gen3 so it may be different but there are 2 clips that slide on once the tank and pump are mated. You will have to tap them on/ off with a hammer and flat punch. New 'o' rings are included.

One more test you could do is follow the pressure line to the rack and disconnect it and place in a container. Start car and turn wheel. Manual says 70-100 psi so whether it has pressure or not should be obvious.

Keep us posted.

This is gen two car, and I called advanced and got a pump from a 5.2l jeep that from what I researched cross's over, it was CHEAP.

Before I swap the pump out and pulley , I can get under car and take off the pressure line off the rack and try the bucket test, 70 psi will be VERY obvious, it should drain FAST. Ill let everyone know more in the next day or so.

 

[Phun70]

I've always just started the car without touching the wheel, unless I installed a new rack, there wouldn't be any reason to turn the wheel since the rack was already full of fluid. Start the engine, and let it circulate for a minute, then shut off the engine till the foam in the tank is gone, then top off the fluid and restart the engine. You might have to repeat this several times to get all the air out, and when it looks like there isn't much foaming going on, then I would start turning the wheel back and forth. Typically a bad pump will manifest itself in both directions, and a bad rack USUALLY will only lack assist in one direction only, although sometimes they can crap out all together internally and no amount of pressure will make them work right. My 2c. ASE L1 CDMAT

 

[aacrewchief]

It's pretty rare for PS racks to just "go out", though it can happen. How many miles are on the car? It sounds to me like he provided you with a PS pump receipt, but never ACTUALLY replaced the pump. My guess would be the pump is fried, not the rack, unless the car has 100k plus miles on it...

 

[SE7EN]

It's pretty rare for PS racks to just "go out", though it can happen. How many miles are on the car? It sounds to me like he provided you with a PS pump receipt, but never ACTUALLY replaced the pump. My guess would be the pump is fried, not the rack, unless the car has 100k plus miles on it...

There are about 29,900 miles on the car, it was involved in a front end accident at one point, but there was no damage to the engine or rack to my knowledge and the previous owner.

If the pump doesn't do it then its the rack... Ill take the hour to swap the pumps over swaping the rack. But again the rack doesn't leak, and seems to function properly.

 

[George Farris]

My understanding is if the rack isn't leaking it is probably OK.

Are you going to try the Advance rebuilt pump?

If so, would be VERY interested as my 02 GTS has lousy steering, also.

 

[SE7EN]

My understanding is if the rack isn't leaking it is probably OK.

Are you going to try the Advance rebuilt pump?

If so, would be VERY interested as my 02 GTS has lousy steering, also.

I am going to try the A/M reman pump out of the 5.2l Jeep that crosses with the oe pump. If it works then that is the cheapest solution. If not then ill buy the oem, but its an easy swap to try and save some money is possible.

Keep you posted