Purdue_Boiler_Viper
Enthusiast
Looking to upgrade the brakes. There's a lot of options out there for a GenII. I'm wondering what do you racers use?
Race Brakes: What do you racers use?
- Thread starter Purdue_Boiler_Viper
- Start date
GTS Dean
Enthusiast
Start with AP 600 fluid.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
If I had it to do over again I would do Tom's rear caliper upgrade and be done with it. But Tom wasn't around in those days.
Castrol SRF fluid, PFC 01 pads and Cone duct cooling kit.
Castrol SRF fluid, PFC 01 pads and Cone duct cooling kit.
Purdue_Boiler_Viper
Enthusiast
Chuck,
So, for a Gen II with ABS, would you stick with the stock fronts, and do a rear upgrade only?
Thanks,
Pat
So, for a Gen II with ABS, would you stick with the stock fronts, and do a rear upgrade only?
Thanks,
Pat
VIPER GTSR 91
Enthusiast
Stop Tech big brake system and Motul 600.
Chuck's advice is for non-ABS cars.
Some put Gen III's fronts on the front and move your Gen II's fronts to the rear, and add a parking brake. Others have gone StopTech on all four corners...also add a good (Cone) duct kit...and upgrade fluid.
Some put Gen III's fronts on the front and move your Gen II's fronts to the rear, and add a parking brake. Others have gone StopTech on all four corners...also add a good (Cone) duct kit...and upgrade fluid.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Yeah. I'd get rid of the ABS. 
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Another vote for Tom's 40mm rears. I did the StopTech front-only big-brake upgrade before I did Tom's upgrade and so i don't know if just the 40mm's would have done what i wanted. but with both, i'm quite happy.
JD
JD
Dave's Big Brakes
Enthusiast
With ABS & 18" aftermarket wheels, ACR's, SRT-10's, VR-1's etc, you can have SRT-10's with 14" rotors on all 4 wheels
Just like me in the picture below Below is with VR-1's, with EBC Red ceramic's Willow Springs the fastest track in the West
Oh! you can't use Tom's Upgrade on a ABS Viper(note: I also sell Tom's Upgrade) the mounting tabs aren't the same.
www.davesbigbrakes.com
Just like me in the picture below
Below is with VR-1's, with EBC Red ceramic's Willow Springs the fastest track in the West Oh! you can't use Tom's Upgrade on a ABS Viper(note: I also sell Tom's Upgrade) the mounting tabs aren't the same.
www.davesbigbrakes.com
Simms
Enthusiast
Joseph, did you have to run a proportioning valve?
Steve 00RT/10
Enthusiast
Stock fronts--Tom's rears -- No prop. valve -- Brakeman 3 pads here. Works plenty well enough for the limited track time I get. Unless your really going to get into the track thing, Tom's upgrade is probably more than adequate for most....and much more cost effective.
Steve
Steve
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Simms
Enthusiast
Cool! I have Tom's rears now and I have been thinking about upgrading the fronts to Stoptech's. I just didn't feel like messing around with a proportioning valve.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Hold on now. Tom's rear upgrade for Stoptech fronts is different than his rear upgrade for stock fronts. Best talk to Tom about your application.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Actually, they are the same.
Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Tom told me otherwise. I've got Stoptech fronts and Tom said the rear upgrade was a different bore.
3SRTsandGTS
Enthusiast
I recently ran at Sebring and started with Mopar brake fluid and EBC red pads. I had Archer Racing switch me to Motul 600 and Brakeman 3 pads and dropped 12 seconds in elapsed time. My wife and I drove the car (i.e., out of every 90 minutes the car was on the track for 60 minutes) and the brakes worked really well.
Dave's Big Brakes
Enthusiast
Hey Tom
where are you Tom had a 38MM upgrade for NON ABS Vipers
Now it's a 40MM upgrade for NON ABS Vipers Tom's Upgrade will NOT
work on a ABS Viper
ABS Vipers already have a 43MM rear caliperI believe brand X
is either the same MM or smaller MM than Gen2 fronts
Dave's fronts(SRT) & Tom's 40MM rears are a GREAT combo on Non ABS Vipers
Big Brake Dave
1fast1
Enthusiast
Does anyone do the SRT-10 Brakes in the front AND rear? Any downside to this? Also, has anyone added ABS to the SRT-10 front and rear combo for a Gen2 pre-ABS? I have a 1997.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
Chuck and Joseph - here's the explanation:
Chuck, I thought you only had the Stoptech calipers, which are smaller bores of 36 and 40mm. That would pair up with 38mm rears.
Joseph said he had the calipers and also had the larger front rotors, meaning the calipers are spaced further from the bearing. This gives the caliper more leverage (retarding torque) and act like "bigger" brakes. It was theoretically close to the balance we wanted it to be and hopestly further rearward bias than I've gone before, but they have paired up well with 40mm rears.
The new forum lost all my old saved postings, but if you find the recent one where I generated the Stoptech-like graph you will see where your car (Stoptech calipers + 38mm) and Joseph's car (Stoptech kit + 40mm) compare.
Geez, I hope I didn't misunderstand what you had all along.
Chuck, I thought you only had the Stoptech calipers, which are smaller bores of 36 and 40mm. That would pair up with 38mm rears.
Joseph said he had the calipers and also had the larger front rotors, meaning the calipers are spaced further from the bearing. This gives the caliper more leverage (retarding torque) and act like "bigger" brakes. It was theoretically close to the balance we wanted it to be and hopestly further rearward bias than I've gone before, but they have paired up well with 40mm rears.
The new forum lost all my old saved postings, but if you find the recent one where I generated the Stoptech-like graph you will see where your car (Stoptech calipers + 38mm) and Joseph's car (Stoptech kit + 40mm) compare.
Geez, I hope I didn't misunderstand what you had all along.
Tom F&L GoR
Enthusiast
This one... except I didn't show your combo... oops.
I've shown Stoptech calipers alone (where Chuck was) and that 38mm rears (only) were equivalent to Stoptech fronts (only.) OEM fronts calipers plus 40mm are shown. Stoptech fronts plus 38mm rears (Chucks combo) would be on top of the OEM plus 40mm dot. Joseph has ever so slightly more rear bias, but still on the stable area.
I've shown Stoptech calipers alone (where Chuck was) and that 38mm rears (only) were equivalent to Stoptech fronts (only.) OEM fronts calipers plus 40mm are shown. Stoptech fronts plus 38mm rears (Chucks combo) would be on top of the OEM plus 40mm dot. Joseph has ever so slightly more rear bias, but still on the stable area.
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Chuck 98 RT/10
Enthusiast
Ok Tom, that clears it up. Joseph and I have two different Stoptech fronts.
You should read all the nasty emails JD and I sent back and forth to each other over this.
You should read all the nasty emails JD and I sent back and forth to each other over this.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Ok Tom, that clears it up. Joseph and I have two different Stoptech fronts.
You should read all the nasty emails JD and I sent back and forth to each other over this.
I'll say!
Chuck was all broken up! But now,Chuck, I owe you that lapdance.
jrkermode
Enthusiast
Purdue,
You need to be much more specific about your application if you hope to get the best advice.
What year Viper (ABS)?
Track only or street too?
Same pads for street and track; do you mind squealing brakes on the street?
Stock tires, DOT (R compound) or slicks?
Where do you run; high speed road course, autocross or something in between?
Willing to have the rotors be consummables?
Do you have a wing or splitter?
How big an issue is cost?
And, the hardest question of all, how hard do you brake?
The only absolute in braking an iron rotored car is you can't have too much cooling. Folks will tell you you can get by without cooling (depending on your application) and they will be right. But, more cooling always gives you more braking choices; usually cheaper choices. Put on Cone's kit, run Porsche air deflectors (you don't need the Viper specifc brackets), run racing brake fluid.
You need to be much more specific about your application if you hope to get the best advice.
What year Viper (ABS)?
Track only or street too?
Same pads for street and track; do you mind squealing brakes on the street?
Stock tires, DOT (R compound) or slicks?
Where do you run; high speed road course, autocross or something in between?
Willing to have the rotors be consummables?
Do you have a wing or splitter?
How big an issue is cost?
And, the hardest question of all, how hard do you brake?
The only absolute in braking an iron rotored car is you can't have too much cooling. Folks will tell you you can get by without cooling (depending on your application) and they will be right. But, more cooling always gives you more braking choices; usually cheaper choices. Put on Cone's kit, run Porsche air deflectors (you don't need the Viper specifc brackets), run racing brake fluid.
TexasPettey
Enthusiast
For most non competitive track events, pads and cooling are the first place to start. Having started down this path, I'd suggest starting with pads. Get a set of rotors and pads for the track, and swap them out before an event. Most track quality pads really generate brake dust. You won't want to change out just the pads, since you'll have to rebed them every time and they will have extra wear. A good set of track pads will be an extra $50/pair and much more effective than a bigger brake kit with crappy pads. If you swap them out with the rotors, you'll have a matched set ready for the track. You can get cheap rotors at Autozone with a 2 year warranty.
Once you're locking up the fronts on a regular basis, or getting a lot of brake fade, you can add Tom's rear brake upgrade and some brake ducting. Those two mods are $1K, and still worth more than bigger calipers. Another area to think about is wheels. Some offer more air flow than others.
I'm no expert, but from what I understand, as long as you can lock up the tires at speed, your brake upgrades should be about cooling and high temp operation. Your brakes will likely fade during the run. If the lockup isn't close to uniform, you need more balance. When you're hitting speeds or running sticky enough tires that you can't lock up the tires, you need bigger calipers or a higher coefficient pad. Pads can only take you so far, and will be substantially more expensive the higher the temp and coefficient rating. Also, the higher performance pads tend to not have the longevity.
I used my 'lowly' Gen1 brake setup with a cone brake kit, Tom's rear upgrade, and BrakeMan 3's at my last DE event. My results were good, but I wanted some more brake at higher speeds. I've got Kumho's and felt that there wasn't enough bite at the very high speeds, 140+. I'm going to run these BM's until they're finished and try some PFC's.
Once you're locking up the fronts on a regular basis, or getting a lot of brake fade, you can add Tom's rear brake upgrade and some brake ducting. Those two mods are $1K, and still worth more than bigger calipers. Another area to think about is wheels. Some offer more air flow than others.
I'm no expert, but from what I understand, as long as you can lock up the tires at speed, your brake upgrades should be about cooling and high temp operation. Your brakes will likely fade during the run. If the lockup isn't close to uniform, you need more balance. When you're hitting speeds or running sticky enough tires that you can't lock up the tires, you need bigger calipers or a higher coefficient pad. Pads can only take you so far, and will be substantially more expensive the higher the temp and coefficient rating. Also, the higher performance pads tend to not have the longevity.
I used my 'lowly' Gen1 brake setup with a cone brake kit, Tom's rear upgrade, and BrakeMan 3's at my last DE event. My results were good, but I wanted some more brake at higher speeds. I've got Kumho's and felt that there wasn't enough bite at the very high speeds, 140+. I'm going to run these BM's until they're finished and try some PFC's.
Simms
Enthusiast
So what's the difference between Chuck's setup and JD's setup?
If I understood everything, JD has a Stoptech Big Break setup (front only) and 40mm rears. Chuck has Stoptech front calipers only and 38mm rears????
If I understood everything, JD has a Stoptech Big Break setup (front only) and 40mm rears. Chuck has Stoptech front calipers only and 38mm rears????
Purdue_Boiler_Viper
Enthusiast
jrkermode, good questions. I've got an 01 GTS (ABS) with stock brakes except for EBC green pads. No wing or splitter. I can change the pads for the application at hand, and would replace pads / rotors as necessary.
The car is not a daily driver, and won't see much track time. But, when I get it on the track (high speed road course), I want the car to stop well. Not to mention, a few feet less stopping distance can save an accident on the city streets. So, I'm interested in what real improvements can be made, and figured the racers would know best. I would spend whatever it takes, if the improvement was significant.
Oh final question: How hard do I brake? Hard enough to engage the ABS at times. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2393385", true);
The car is not a daily driver, and won't see much track time. But, when I get it on the track (high speed road course), I want the car to stop well. Not to mention, a few feet less stopping distance can save an accident on the city streets. So, I'm interested in what real improvements can be made, and figured the racers would know best. I would spend whatever it takes, if the improvement was significant.
Oh final question: How hard do I brake? Hard enough to engage the ABS at times. vbmenu_register("postmenu_2393385", true);
Purdue_Boiler_Viper
Enthusiast
Tom, help me out in interpreting the graph. Since I have a Gen 2 with ABS, does the graph not show that there would not be a significant improvement by going to any of the other graphed alternatives? Where would the Gen3 be on the graph? And how close to Gen3 do you get with a Gen2 (with ABS) and SRT brakes on all four corners?
ruckdr
Enthusiast
Purdue_Boiler_Viper,
As you can see from Tom's graph, the Gen 2 ABS is a good braking system, balanced with maybe a little rear bias. Your best bet, since you said ".....won't see much track time", put on Stainless Steel brake lines, and some good brake fluid (Motul 600, for example).
OKViper,
I agree with you; perhaps we can encourage Tom to put a 'stopping distance' scale, in feet, on the left side of his great chart. I believe Tom has the distances and has posted them before, but a comprehensive chart, like the one shown here, would be great.
Oh, I have had Tom's 40mm rears, stock fronts, SS brake lines, since March 2005.
Hello Tom.
Later,
As you can see from Tom's graph, the Gen 2 ABS is a good braking system, balanced with maybe a little rear bias. Your best bet, since you said ".....won't see much track time", put on Stainless Steel brake lines, and some good brake fluid (Motul 600, for example).
OKViper,
I agree with you; perhaps we can encourage Tom to put a 'stopping distance' scale, in feet, on the left side of his great chart. I believe Tom has the distances and has posted them before, but a comprehensive chart, like the one shown here, would be great.
Oh, I have had Tom's 40mm rears, stock fronts, SS brake lines, since March 2005.
Hello Tom.
Later,
