Race Brakes: What do you racers use?

[Tom F&L GoR]

So what's the difference between Chuck's setup and JD's setup?

If I understood everything, JD has a Stoptech Big Break setup (front only) and 40mm rears. Chuck has Stoptech front calipers only and 38mm rears????

The difference is that Joseph has 14" front rotors and therefore a bracket to space the caliper outward and Chuck does not. Both have the same caliper. But Joseph gets more front braking because his caliper has a greater lever arm.

It may seem confusing, but refer to the chart - the Stoptech caliper + bracket is very close in balance to leaving the car stock. The benefit would be that the larger rotor would run cooler.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Tom, help me out in interpreting the graph. Since I have a Gen 2 with ABS, does the graph not show that there would not be a significant improvement by going to any of the other graphed alternatives? Where would the Gen3 be on the graph? And how close to Gen3 do you get with a Gen2 (with ABS) and SRT brakes on all four corners?

It shows that on a very basic level you have enough rear brake. It now is the details that matter - like Texas Pettey was explaining. Pads that operate efficiently in the heat range, cooling of rotors, fluid, etc...

This sounds silly, but you might consider installing an adjustable proportioning valve and run track events without ABS. You'd probably have to dial down the rears a little and you would certainly have to learn threshold braking, but if the ABS is as mediocre as everyone thinks, you don't have to use it.

Big Brake kits enlarge everything - rotors, calipers, pads - to give you a larger thermal heat sink. It extends the use and abuse that heat generation will cause and lessen the replacement of rotors and pads over time.

Gen 3 brakes are off the right hand side BUT since you have ABS and a prop valve (I think) the electronics only allow enough rear brake as necessary. The system operation therefore only allows the rear calipers to do ~25% of the available work.

A Gen 2 with Gen 3 brakes would still be in the middle somewhere, but by now you begin to realize that 1) balance is one thing and 2) heat capacity is another.

The 40mm rear calipers provide good balance and enough heat capacity for many drivers. Larger calipers/rotors/pads also provide balance and bigger heat capacity (and Dave's kit looks really good.)

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

What kind of braking distance decreases are seen with these upgrades?

I have seen stock that 60-0 was 124ft.

What is the difference to go to Tom's 40mm kit, or other changes (like stoptech's)?

The 40mm caliper is simply swapping to larger rear calipers.

The Stoptech caliper is also an exchange, but to smaller than OEM size front calipers.

The Stoptech kit is smaller front calipers plus a bracket to allow 14" (instead of 13") rotors.

I didn't measure distance, but measured deceleration rates. There is a huge difference when the brakes are balanced. These positive results would occur with 40mm or with big brakes in the rear.

http://forums.viperclub.org/showthread.php?t=579342&highlight=deceleration

 

[1fast1]

What about for a non ABS car if I want to go with the SRT-10 brakes up front? What is best for the rear?

Is my best bet to do the 40mm in the rear, move the Gen2 front to the rear, use the rear SRT-10 brakes on the rear or use the front SRT-10 brakes on the rear of my Gen2?

Also, has anyone added ABS to their non-ABS cars? Thoughts on this?

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

1fast1, any of those are possible. The first question is what do you want?

If you want low cost, high value improvement in braking for street and some track - the 40mm is the way to go. Mind you, it looks the same (bad) as it does now (although I'll throw in a set of brake covers.)

If you want high visual impact and braking improvement, a four x four piston set like Dave's is the way to go. Other than looks and availability, I don't think it matters whether you use Gen2 fronts on the back, SRT brakes front or rear, etc. Any reasonable combination will be plenty enough capacity, will look quite massive, can be powdercoated to any color, etc. The cost/effort to do so will be the same regardless of calipers, requiring purchase of brackets and sourcing the brakes.

Search the boards here for adding ABS. Some tuners do this (Archer and sorry I forgot, but someone else in CA) but the conversion is the most costly.

 

[1fast1]

Thanks Tom! I'd like to say the visual impact does not matter to me, but it really does. I just think the stock brakes look meek, particularly in the rear.

Does anyone know what advantage I'd have by using SRT-10 rear brakes in the rear of pre-ABS car versus moving my Gen2 front calipers to the back? Per Tom, it sounds like either way I'd have more brake then I could use... particularly without ABS and being a fairly novice driver.

 

[Purdue_Boiler_Viper]

Thanks Tom! I'd like to say the visual impact does not matter to me, but it really does. I just think the stock brakes look meek, particularly in the rear.

Does anyone know what advantage I'd have by using SRT-10 rear brakes in the rear of pre-ABS car versus moving my Gen2 front calipers to the back? Per Tom, it sounds like either way I'd have more brake then I could use... particularly without ABS and being a fairly novice driver.

1fast1, try reading on the Stoptech website about brake balance. It might help you to make a decision.

Thanks to everyone for their help!

 

[opnwide]

I was under the impression that Tom put 38s behind the stoptechs (the factory brakes get 40s).

 

[jrkermode]

I forgot another question, Suspension? Not just what parts, but what set-up. Set the car up really soft and the rear tires almost dangle in the air under hard braking. The difference between full soft and full ******* my stock 2002 shocks has a noticable effect on how much braking the rears contribute. In either case (full-hard or full soft), the stock rear set-up is plenty of brake for track use. The fronts are where the action is.

If you are running short sessions on a Roval, where there is usually just one really big braking event per lap as you enter the infield, you could probably get away with stock front brakes. That assumes you have Cone style cooling. Effective cooling is absolutely essential; a must have before any other brake mod, even more important than a fluid upgrade!

A note on "race" set-ups
A race brake brake set-up will likely be worse on the street in a panic situation. Those big rotors and pads that are so helpful in dissipating heat on the track prevent the brakes from getting hot enough to work effectively/quickly on the street. I have Prosche air deflectors, Cone cooling, StopTech ST-40's, 355 rotors and EBC Yellows on the front of my 2002. That set-up takes a few corners (on the track) to get hot enough to work well. For the street, one could possibly defeat all the brake cooling and run super "cold" pads (EBC Greens*), but smaller pads and rotors would be better for a single panic stop.

A general note:
The tires have more influence on stopping distance than do fancy brakes.


* Do not run the Greens on the track. They will overheat.