Raffle?
- Thread starter BlackSnake99
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351carlo
Enthusiast
I heard Jalopnik may be looking into the raffle. They may have some contacts who can find out the details since there is still an apparent lack of transparency here.
It's really just the legality of any raffle period that I don't quite understand. Technically speaking, apparently raffles in Kansas are illegal, but the Corvette club I'm in holds a 50/50 every meeting to help keep some money in the account for the Christmas party and picnics we do throughout the year. Evidently what we are doing is illegal, but no one really brings it up or cares. Granted it's a small group of people that really doesn't affect much in the grand scheme of things, but I don't see why they need to be regulated so hard to begin with.
Humor me and pretend that it's a perfect world for a minute or two if you will. The VCA is a non-profit organization, so it's cash flow is pretty much limited to memebership dues (VPA out of the picture for this example). Let's also assume that those dues are almost entirely used up by the perks they offer from membership (magazine, money going to local chapters, t-shirts, etc.). Whether this is true or not is not important, remember it's a perfect world. If the club wants to hold a national event like a VOI and help reduce the cost to members, they need some extra money. They request donations, and anyone who donates gets the chance to win a new car as an added bonus. I don't understand why this has to be regulated so hard by the states. The people choose if they want to donate and participate. The chance to win something is just an added benefit. You are not paying money for the chance to win a car, you are paying money to help the club fund other stuff with the car as an extra perk to help out. Since the car has to come through a dealer (by Chrysler's structure), if there are questions with registering it I can just say I bought it from Woodhouse (or whatever dealer it goes through) for the price of the ticket, though several raffle rules I've read say that taxes and registration are supposed to be included with the car so the winner doesn't have to pay anything. This would mean it was simply a gift (which every state handles differently I believe).
A true raffle for a car would be only selling enough tickets to cover the cost of the car and the winner takes it. The money collected by the raffle pays for the car and there isn't a dime left over. In the case of multiple prizes you just add up the total and sell only that many tickets. Would the raffle have continued if only 10 tickets were bought?
So the raffle winner is no longer eligible because he sold his Viper, even though they took his money for membership and tickets, and that rule is not on the raffle form? A previous raffle winner was never asked if they currently owned a Viper.
the link is in the VCA section. I will post it but only members can see it.
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668363-Raffle-Announcement
Bruce
http://forums.viperclub.org/threads/668363-Raffle-Announcement
Bruce
TowDawg
Enthusiast
Holy Mary mother of God! The VCA can't do ANYTHING right!
I have to agree they are stuck between a rock and hard place on this one. They can't give him the car because he wasn't a valid VCA member. However, they never should have never have allowed him to VCA member or purchase tickets in the first place. What a cluster @#$%!!!
I have to agree they are stuck between a rock and hard place on this one. They can't give him the car because he wasn't a valid VCA member. However, they never should have never have allowed him to VCA member or purchase tickets in the first place. What a cluster @#$%!!!
2006red/whitecoupe
Enthusiast
Not sure but I thought we had to provide member number at time of purchase; looks like there could be real problems with this.
Voice of Reason
Enthusiast
I think the *** got this one right -
When a person enters a raffle or lottery they are attesting that they are eligible to enter, it's not the responsibility of the party holding the raffle to confirm that everyone buying a ticket is eligible to enter if false information is provided. Think of it this way, if a 16 year old kid buys a lottery ticket where you need to be 18 years old to win with a fake ID saying he was 21 and he won a million dollar prize, when the state investigated his eligibility and find that he's really only 16 he wouldn't get the prize. And he wouldn't get the money back for the ticket he purchased either because he used falsified information to obtain it. In the case of the Viper raffle the winner used a "fake ID" to maintain membership in the club which is the requirement to purchase the ticket. It ***** for him, but he never should have purchased the ticket. And others like him should not get their money back either because they are in the same situation, they should not have purchased a ticket because they shouldn't even be in the club.
When a person enters a raffle or lottery they are attesting that they are eligible to enter, it's not the responsibility of the party holding the raffle to confirm that everyone buying a ticket is eligible to enter if false information is provided. Think of it this way, if a 16 year old kid buys a lottery ticket where you need to be 18 years old to win with a fake ID saying he was 21 and he won a million dollar prize, when the state investigated his eligibility and find that he's really only 16 he wouldn't get the prize. And he wouldn't get the money back for the ticket he purchased either because he used falsified information to obtain it. In the case of the Viper raffle the winner used a "fake ID" to maintain membership in the club which is the requirement to purchase the ticket. It ***** for him, but he never should have purchased the ticket. And others like him should not get their money back either because they are in the same situation, they should not have purchased a ticket because they shouldn't even be in the club.
TowDawg
Enthusiast
It's not a call I would want to have to be making. I understand the example about the lottery ticket, but on the other hand, this is a MUCH smaller and controlled pool of people who buy tickets. You would think it would be part of the process to verify that the person buying the ticket is an eligible member. However, it would be a #$%^ storm if it got out that an invalid person won the car (especially since we still have no idea if the raffle itself was even valid).
I see they announced a new winner and then closed the thread in the members only section. How did they do it? Did they move the second place winner up to the grand prize winner, and third prize up to second, then draw for new third prize winner? Or did they leave second and third where they are and draw a new grand prize winner?
If they drew a new grand prize winner and I was the original second and third prize winners, I would raising holy hell because I assume they weren't re-entered in the re-draw for the grand prize.
Like I said, what a complete cluster @#$%!
I see they announced a new winner and then closed the thread in the members only section. How did they do it? Did they move the second place winner up to the grand prize winner, and third prize up to second, then draw for new third prize winner? Or did they leave second and third where they are and draw a new grand prize winner?
If they drew a new grand prize winner and I was the original second and third prize winners, I would raising holy hell because I assume they weren't re-entered in the re-draw for the grand prize.
Like I said, what a complete cluster @#$%!
Yes they drew a new name for the final prize and everyone else moved up one. I think that is fair.
Bruce
TowDawg
Enthusiast
I agree with the way the re-distribution was handled.
I just saw the post that was made in the members section and have an unrelated question though. Why in the hell is Lee still the acting president?
I just saw the post that was made in the members section and have an unrelated question though. Why in the hell is Lee still the acting president?
ROCKET62
Has Left the Room!
Did the winner own a Viper when he renewed his membership - and then sold it between that time and the time of the raffle?
Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
Rocket
Will repost here as I was thinking in the other thread....copy and paste....
Voice of reason makes sense too.
What if though, I sell my car. I have been in the club since 2007, I renew, but do not tell anyone I actually sold my car? Then the club, short of looking up the VIN to do a name match in the DMV system, technically would not know I should no longer be a member and would assume like last year I am renewing. There is a bit of honor system at play here too. (No, I did not sell my car.... LOL) It is my responsibility to ensure I can enter as Voice Of Reason said. Its not the club that should technically check the DMV for everyone who would buy a ticket...
If I start thinking there is many situations that come up but in the end, it really comes down to if I falsify info or not. It is a royal mess and I can hardly believe that of all the times this has happened, it just has to be now with all the mess the club is in!
RT10viperfan
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They drew another ticket? Where was this second raffle drawing held? Was this second drawing video recorded? What a mess. I hope everyone learns from this cluster.
johniew398
Enthusiast
I also agree they handled this correctly. It would be nice (please) if we heard about these things on our own forum first.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
I think they did the right thing, But as Mopar Boy said, Shame this had to happen with all the other questions still unanswered 
Red cars are Fastest
Red cars are Fastest
Mopar Boy
Enthusiast
I did a legit
when I saw the closing line. Wasn't expecting that. Thanks for the morning laugh. kratedisease
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Losers tend to lose...that's just the way it goes....that's why they are called losers
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