Ralph Gilles Looking For Feed back !!

[STORMCAT]

Today there was a video clip from Auto week that stated Ralph Gilles was looking for input from owners of other brands to possibly shape the next Viper. ( Viper comments at 1:00 time mark )
Link : AUTOWEEK TV: Shelby GTS amps up your Mustang for less - AutoWeek Magazine


I am a Ford GT owner. I have always liked and wanted a Viper but I never felt comfortable in the cabin. I have always thought one of the biggest improvements that could be made to the Viper would be to change to a transaxle configuration. I made the post many years ago.

Link : http://forums.viperclub.org/1955256-post1.html

A transaxle configuration could improve the Viper in more ways than one. One of my biggest dis-likes about the Viper is the offset seat position and the tight foot well area. By comparison a the foot box in a Ford GT is spacious and you can sit comfortably with your legs straight. By going to a transaxle arrangement you could gain some much need width in the foot well area.


Many people will debate the weight distribution change. The transaxle will add some weight to the rear of the car but that is not necessarily a bad thing. The addition weight over the rear tires can greatly improve traction. Most of the new Generation front engined cars are using transaxle's. I read a Ferrari article some years ago and they concluded that the transaxle was the best way to offset some of the effect of a front engined car. Not trying to start anything but I would say Ferrari has some good R&D on the handling side of the game

The other Dis-like is the claustrophobic feeling of the interior. I am not that big of a guy yet I get a feeling of crampness when I get into a Viper. The windshield surround and console area need some opening up or mass reduction. I will say the seats themselves feel great but the offset pedal arrangement kills that for me.

For years I have been here reading about the Viper purists and understand where they are coming from. The Ford GT does not have traction control. It has a hard cable right to the throttle body and you can control the beast. Yet the GT has a more refined and supple suspension that could benefit the Viper and create a more mass appeal. I would say the Viper would greatly benefit from having adjustable magnetic ride control and an adjustable defeatable traction control for you ********* purists.

I track my GT and I would track the Viper as well. The Ford GT is a manual like the Viper. I am not opposed to a paddle shift system if it is done right, quick shifts no delayed / surging feeling in the thrust department.

One concern with paddle shift cars is the Clutch life. I know the early Gallardos went thru clutches at an alarming rate.

Another item that could be improved and has been shared by others is the sound of the Viper V-10. I have some friends with Gallardos and those thing sound wicked, like Formula -1 cars. I am not sure what it would take to make the Viper V-10 sound that way ( new crank and firing order ?? ) but a big part of the sports car experience is the sound.

The Porsche flat 6 makes marvelous music. The American V-8's will make your heart pound and the Ferrari flat plane crank V-8's scream. V 12's the best !! When you talk to other car enthusiasts the sound that the Vipers make is never at the top of the list.

I am a perfect candidate for the next Gen Viper if they do it right. I have always wanted one and still do but it needs to be a comfortable and fun car to drive. Just my 2 cents. I hope I didn't offend anyone. Looking forward to the next Gen Viper !!

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

I think it is great to make inquiries from your competition on why they like a particular product. I think the Porsche GT2/GT3 owners are a great target audience because they tend to use their cars for the same purpose, driving/tracking their cars.

As for the cabin of the Viper, I think it is perfect. It feels just like a cockpit and as such ready to go into a dogfight. Now I do have alot of hope for the cockpit interior being improved upon. The reason I say this is because I have seen what Dodge has done to improve the interiors on their vehicles in their showrooms. I was recently in a showroom and was amazed how nice the interiors look.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

The Ford GT is awesome to have and Im glad someone else feels the same about the claustrophobic bit and having the windshield/roof line really low on the newer Vipers. Its hard to get used to.

 

[STORMCAT]

The Ford GT is awesome to have and Im glad someone else feels the same about the claustrophobic bit and having the windshield/roof line really low on the newer Vipers. Its hard to get used to.

I have some Viper owner friends (SRT 10 coupes.) When they get in the GT they comment on how open and spacious it feels.

 

[shooter_t1]

I have some Viper owner friends (SRT 10 coupes.) When they get in the GT they comment on how open and spacious it feels.

If I want open and spacious I'll drive my pickup truck. Like the other poster said, improve the quality of materials.

 

[L84AD8]

+2 on the "As for the cabin of the Viper, I think it is perfect. It feels just like a cockpit and as such ready to go into a dogfight". Only problem I have is the the tightnes of the seats but that's a problem I can correct. Called losing weight. Love my Viper.

 

[AbsolutHank]

The cramped interior was the only reservation I had about buying my first Viper. But now after owning one, I absolutely prefer it. It's the only car I've been in with the low roofline and tiny wrap around windshield which truly does make it feel like a cockpit!

 

[dave6666]

I think it is great to make inquiries from your competition on why they like a particular product.

The flip side of that is he's wanting to expand the customer base to those that currently don't want or like the Viper. Does that mean the design will have to step away from what the current Viper owners do like? A comprimise?

If I want open and spacious I'll drive my pickup truck.

This.

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Please note the complaint-free content. Dave, contemporary mod-rice Viper/Ricer owner, and I approve this message.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

What gives owners that *prefer* other makes the impression that they can improve the current record holding car (the Viper ACR) at the Nurburgring? So far the only suggestions is to make the Viper like the Corvette with a rear mounted transmission or to make the Viper like the Ford GT with a more spacious cockpit. I love the Ford GT as I saw a black with silver stripe recently but sadly they don't make it anymore so comparisons are a mute point. How about the suggestions that the Viper exhaust note is lackluster? The Gallardo may sound better but it has been proven on the American version of Top Gear that even the Superleggera and Murcielago are slower at the track so how is that exhaust note working for them?

The only suggestions that make sense to me are to make the Gen V an improvement over the previous gen Vipers. I can see improving the materials and quality of the interior but not at the expense of weight. We don't need power or heated seats but updated sound systems with lighter speakers are OK and an optional ******** option is always welcome. For those that want paddle shifters, I can't relate to you since I was brought up on 5 and 6 speed shifters that have been proven reliable and comparatively easy to fix over time. Reliability should always take front seat over gadgets and optional tech. A part of the reason the Viper used to win at Le Mans was because it broke down less than the other makes.

* Keep displacement on demand off the Viper since it is a supercar and owners already pay a gas guzzler tax for it. If you spend close to $100k on a supercar, gas mileage is not a councern of yours.*

Bringing exotic materials like titanium, carbon fiber, etc is always welcome as much as possible while keeping the MSRP below $100K. Other makes do make good use of higher compression ratios in the engine. The Gen V engine with it's VENOM controller and VVt should be able to get 11:1 ratios and still meet OB whatever regulations. Keep the Viper a big NA V-10.

That is all I have so far. I am sure Chuck98 will chime in soon.

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

+2 on the "As for the cabin of the Viper, I think it is perfect. It feels just like a cockpit and as such ready to go into a dogfight". Only problem I have is the the tightnes of the seats but that's a problem I can correct. Called losing weight. Love my Viper.

LMAO. I welcome your honest down to Earth solution.

 

[dave6666]

How about the suggestions that the Viper exhaust note is lackluster? The Gallardo may sound better but it has been proven on the American version of Top Gear that even the Superleggera and Murcielago are slower at the track so how is that exhaust note working for them?

I am guessing that there are current and future Viper owners that don't care for a second about what magazine likes the car or what records it holds etc. It's all about style points. A nasty exhaust note is a way cool style point.

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Please note the complaint-free content. Dave, contemporary mod-rice Viper/Ricer owner, and I approve this message.

 

[Zentenk]

Ok, make a small engine, so it revs higher and sounds like an exotic. Oh wait, the Viper does sound exotic! Nothing else sounds quite like it!!! =D

That is part of the Viper, that is it's heart beat.

Did Ralph really ask this? Ask German/Japanese/slower car loyalists what they would like the Viper to turn into? A piece of crap? hahahah way to go Ralph... way... to... go. *flushes toilet* bye Viper. Do what Dodge would do, not what they want... get a GRIP! GRAB LIFE BY THE HORNS!!! hahahah

 

[Boxer12]

Isn't it a little late for feedback on the Gen V???

 

[VENOMAHOLIC]

I am guessing that there are current and future Viper owners that don't care for a second about what magazine likes the car or what records it holds etc. It's all about style points. A nasty exhaust note is a way cool style point.

__________________________________________________

Please note the complaint-free content. Dave, contemporary mod-rice Viper/Ricer owner, and I approve this message.

LMAO. You make a great point with "style points" becoming more important to many car enthusiests than function and performance. Gotta love those that want to be stylishly late to the finish line.

 

[Art 138]

Have to agree with Dave that it needs to appeal to a wider customer base to sell the business case to Management......The single most pressing issue I hear from others is cabin heat regardless of how good the AC is....

 

[dave6666]

LMAO. You make a great point with "style points" becoming more important to many car enthusiests than function and performance. Gotta love those that want to be stylishly late to the finish line.

Excellent display of that arrogant track rat type of car ownership. If you weren't so high on yourself you'd have actually been paying attention when I offered my opinion that many, if not a majority, of Viper owners don't care about the track or speed stats. You won't find that proportion here more than likely - probably a 50-50 balance or maybe even slightly tilted toward the track rat. But how many Viper owners post here? Or are even members of a paid membership Viper club? A statistically invalid polling pool and the real number is anybody's guess. I guess more than 50% buy on style points. Way more.

__________________________________________________

Please note the complaint-free content. Dave, contemporary mod-rice Viper/Ricer owner, and I approve this message.

 

[Bad Asp 06]

I know I bought mine strictly for the looks, speed came second. Vipers are not the fastest car out there, but they are one of the most beautiful in MHO. I have nothing aginst tracking your car since it is YOUR CAR, and I am sure I will see a little track time with mine (very little), but This car is just to fine an automobile to beat on even though it has been designed to do just that. I feel Dave is right that this board is heavy on the racer side but will change towards the more traditional car enthusist side as the cars them self become more available to the less than rich public.
All that said, if you do not strive to continually improve and increase you customer base then the compitition will pass you by and fast. I think it is awesome that a guy like Ralph asks his customer base what it is they could do better and looking at what makes his competitors cars more attractive to other car buyers.

Belive me, if I could find a way to make my coupe sound exactly like F50 or F40, I would do it in a heart beat. I would also like to see at least a more user friendly transmission that will accept a more rapid gear change.
I do disagree about the interior that most have issues with. I love the interior of the viper more than any Lambo I have seen.
Another route that would be nice to see is broader option packages offered so the owner can truelly have a more unique car than just different paint schemes, such as high end sterios, heated seates (if wanted), carbon fiber hoods, etc. etc.
Now that would be something!

 

[plumcrazy]

if we have time to give feedback for the gen5, its not been made and maybe not designed yet....thats not good for you guys that care if it comes out

 

[Roysviper]

STORMCAT!!!! It sounds to me like it's been awhile since you last sat in a VIPER.......What you described to me sounds exactly like the gen 2 Vipers... That leg room and foot at side angle feeling is gone in the new Vipers... The cockpit to me is more like setting in a racecar then a Corvette. When you fall into the Viper, you are ready to drive not go parking in lovers lane with your girlfriend where everything is in the way. Thats why they made Vettes. For the ladies...The Viper is a man's car and a car for women that really appreciate real cars. You might not be cutout to be a VIPER owner...The GT40 is AWESOME so that's probly where you need to stay.

 

[Bad Asp 06]

Wow, let's not welcome any feedback from non viper owners at all.
If everyone is so completely happy with every aspect of their current viper then maybe dodge doesn't need to make a gen V.
Or better yet, they can put all that above mentioned into the new gen and everyone who doesn't want it can take it off and sell it on e-bay.

 

[Bobpantax]

They are already testing the Gen V platform with a Gen IV body on it. Ralph admitted same in his recent interview and a photo of a Viper testing the Gen V's traction control while running in snow was released. The design is done. The car will be released in the Fall of 2012. The marketing research was completed months ago.

Based on the above, this thread is an example of ********** behavior.

 

[Coloviper]

If Ralph and Dodge really wanted additional feedback BEYOND the feedback they solicited DIRECTLY from us at VOI11 AND through Herb on this board, they would just ask us directly for it, just as they did at VOI11.

I think they know exactly where they are going and it will embody over 50% of what current and future Viper owners want. This thread is just a wet dream for someone.

Everyone grows up eventually and the Viper must too. Paddle trannies, TCS, etc. are coming no matter what dinosaur comments are made. Don't want it, there are plenty of older GENs to choose from. If I had a disability which did not allow me to use a clutch or shift gears as efficiently as I liked, and I have loved and owned Vipers my whole life, well I would be very upset at not having that option and being "driven away" from Viper due to some outdated commandments written 20 years ago when they could never envision a model beyond a GEN II. The comments being made are as outdated as asking Ralph to remove the floor for weight concerns and we can Flinstone our butts around.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Ok, I own and have owned other cars besides the Viper. Saleens, Aston Martins, BMWs so I think I can comment here. However, I currently own 3 Vipers because they are simply awesome. One thing I would say though is that the seats need more adjustment backwards/lower for big guys. Recently had a big guy looking at my Gen 3 which is for sale. He seemed to love the car but he looked like a sardine in the car. Bigger folks shouldn't have to install a seat lowering kit to get in the car. I've spoken to several guys (tall ones, wide ones) that would love to buy a Viper but they simply don't fit comfortably.

 

[STORMCAT]

Ralph Gilles is looking for feed back from outside the Viper circle to help evolve the Viper so it can survive. My main note on foot well spacing was to call out a flaw in the ergonomics . The gas pedal for all practical purposes is under the steering column. This is not a normal position and does not provide the most comfortable seating position.

Yes the Viper ACR has set a lot of track records. But it achieves this by using the aids of and extreme aero down force package, stiff suspension and super sticky tires. All of it's piers or cars that it is compared with run a basic more normal or should I say more street able trim. If you were to add huge wings , splitters, dive planes and Sport Cup tires to a GTR or ZR1 they will run much faster laps times as well.

I think the Viper ACR is a cool and the perfect tool for the track but there are lots of new 09's & 10's for sale so the broad base appeal does not seem to be there.

I am still on the fence about paddle shifters. But if you are a real track hound they seem to be the way to go. If you review the videos of the Viper run around the "Ring" the professional driver is very busy and looks like he is on the ragged edge and almost out of control. The shifter is shaking and it just looks frantic and chaotic.

View the same run around the "Ring" in the Ferrari 599 GTO and it looks so smooth ad effortless that even the average Joe would feel comfortable making a run like that. We all think we are better drivers than we probably are and I know what car I would prefer to be in going around the track. It would be nice to see the option of a manual or a paddle shift Viper but for economic reasons it maybe be one or the other.

So I know you guys here love the Viper as is but the whole premise of Ralph's search is to hear what others think so with that in mind please add comments on what the new car could be.

 

[Alabaster Mamba]

Well it sounds to me like you are wanting the car to be a dulled down version that anyone can drive around a track. The point is that it does take effort to drive a car on a track. As for talking about how the ACR set the record, well let's just say that Dodge did it and didn't have to use force induction to do it. They made a car that is still setting records. There are things the Viper can use and that is a nicer interior but the ability to kick butt and take names it has already mastered.

I thought at first you were interested in the Viper and how to improve it but now I simply think you are trying to bash it snidely and make jabs. You sound like the type of person that wants a car like the GTR that does it all for you without you having to shift at all.

 

[viper067]

You people are funny .... do any of you actually make a product for a living?

We constantly as for feedback from both our customers and prospective customers on why we both win and lose on deals. If you only talk to the people you have won, then you learn little ... perhaps just minor refinements. If you can win over the crowd you have been losing to, then you have something. This does not usually come at the expense of making your product less (insert favorite words). Sometimes, you may be able to win more simply by changing your marketing ... your product already does what the prospects are looking for, it just isn't marketed to them properly. Other times it may take some simple tweaks, different custom packages. Personally, I would prefer a track package that has most of the comforts stripped out, race seats installed, etc ... and a traditional package that you can take to the track but has a stereo, gps, etc. I would love it if the stock Viper could sound like mine, perhaps a little more refined, but much better than what is there today....

You have to look at all the target markets, not just the ones where you continually win .... and you do it all the time, so perhaps the feedback they are looking for is for tweaks down the road, not on what will be in 2012.

 

[Roysviper]

Sometimes, you may be able to win more simply by changing your marketing ... your product already does what the prospects are looking for, it just isn't marketed to them properly.

You have to look at all the target markets,

I feel like I am watching "SHARK TANK"!!!

 

[dave6666]

do any of you actually make a product for a living?

I consume someone else's product and produce sewage. Does that count?

__________________________________________________

Please note the complaint-free content. Dave, contemporary mod-rice Viper/Ricer owner, and I approve this message.

 

[Zentenk]

Okay, so... All-wheel drive, traction control, stability management, automatic trans, heated seat (winter driving in the snow) and carbon fiber body to try to even out on all the added weight. 4 door wagon, we plan on skiing and also 24" wheels.

The Viper is a Viper, WHY should all cars be exactly the same? LAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[STORMCAT]

Well it sounds to me like you are wanting the car to be a dulled down version that anyone can drive around a track. The point is that it does take effort to drive a car on a track. As for talking about how the ACR set the record, well let's just say that Dodge did it and didn't have to use force induction to do it. They made a car that is still setting records. There are things the Viper can use and that is a nicer interior but the ability to kick butt and take names it has already mastered.

I thought at first you were interested in the Viper and how to improve it but now I simply think you are trying to bash it snidely and make jabs. You sound like the type of person that wants a car like the GTR that does it all for you without you having to shift at all.

No ,I am not trying to Snidely bash the Viper. I was just makeing some comments based on real life and and the observations I have seen, as I stated in post #24

" I am still on the fence about paddle shifters. But if you are a real track hound they seem to be the way to go. If you review the videos of the Viper run around the "Ring" the professional driver is very busy and looks like he is on the ragged edge and almost out of control. The shifter is shaking and it just looks frantic and chaotic.

View the same run around the "Ring" in the Ferrari 599 GTO and it looks so smooth ad effortless that even the average Joe would feel comfortable making a run like that. We all think we are better drivers than we probably are and I know what car I would prefer to be in going around the track. It would be nice to see the option of a manual or a paddle shift Viper but for economic reasons it maybe be one or the other. "


I do track my car but I would not say I am a hound. I do enjoy it 3 to 4 times per year. It's well documented paddle shifters will make you faster around the track and for the non professionals it makes it that much easier to concentrate on braking and turning versus trying to execute a perfect heal toe down shift. As stated above it would be great to see a true manual and a paddle shift option. If I had the choice today I don't know which I would choose.

I have been a member here for a long time. I was really interested in the SRT 10's / Gen 4's when came out but I did not want a Convertible. By the time the Coupe came out I had the funds for the Ford and went that route. By the way, everything you love about the Viper is what I love about the GT. Simple mechanical systems. No traction control , raw power that you control with your right foot. We do not even have drive by wire. It's a hard cable right to the throttle body. I only started this thread because I have been a long time Viper fan and want to see the car live and evolve. I received the email from autoweek and here we are