Rear suspension defect?

[TrevorR90]

Just thought I'd share this, I've been cooperating with the NHTSA with the recent possible recall with the rear suspension. News article says that there were 2 reports, actual theres 3 and my cars an 04.

Just want to see if anyone else is involved with this?

 

[TrackAire]

Trevor,

Are you aware of any knuckle failures that did not involve the car being involved in an accident? It would be most helpful if a car could be found that broke the knuckle but was not involved in an accident (which I think makes it even harder to conclude if it was the knuckle or the accident that caused the failure) if investigators are ever going to be able to answer this question.

I would guess that with the millions of miles put on these cars over the years, somebody must have busted a knuckle yet not ended up in a ditch. Analysis of that part failure would really help answer a lot of questions.

Cheers,
George

 

[David Pintaric]

I've lost 2, maybe three, over the years. I never gave it a second thought because my failures were always on race cars, and thought the stresses of the track caused the problem. Maybe not.

 

[TrackAire]

I've lost 2, maybe three, over the years. I never gave it a second thought because my failures were always on race cars, and thought the stresses of the track caused the problem. Maybe not.

David,

Do you remember if the failures were found during an inspection, happened on track or after an "off road excursion"?

I figure these parts were designed about 12 years ago. A lot has changed in tire technology and stickiness in that time. I wonder if the addition traction stresses that the newer tire technology can produce is over powering the part? You guys on R-compounds and full race slicks are at a whole other level of increased stress.

Cheers,
George

 

[David Pintaric]

David,

Do you remember if the failures were found during an inspection, happened on track or after an "off road excursion"?

I figure these parts were designed about 12 years ago. A lot has changed in tire technology and stickiness in that time. I wonder if the addition traction stresses that the newer tire technology can produce is over powering the part? You guys on R-compounds and full race slicks are at a whole other level of increased stress.

Cheers,
George

#1 was on the initial test of my 2004 T1 car at Heartland Park, June 2006. Lance Knupp was driving and towards the end of the first session the car snap-hooked into the wall entering the "auto cross" section of the track (don't remember turn numbers at HPT anymore).

#2, same car, 2009 Run Offs Lap One approaching Turn Five at Road America. Car was squirrelly under braking, causing to side swipe Mike McGinley.

#3 was the 2006 STO Championship car. June 2010, three days before my daughters graduation party. Testing at Mid Ohio, the car snapped hooked near the end of the back straight, ending up at the beginning of China Beach. I always suspected a bad ABS wheel sipped sensor, but this investigation has me wondering.

I think Woodhouse sells some supports that work pretty well. We used them after the last incident and had no further problems. Of course, we ultimately put Comp Coupe a-arms on the car, so maybe that helped.

 

[chorps]

David,

I hope you are reporting this to Chrysler so they can see how closely your experience matches up with the existing claims, and expand the scope of the investigation if needed.

 

[TrevorR90]

David,

I hope you are reporting this to Chrysler so they can see how closely your experience matches up with the existing claims, and expand the scope of the investigation if needed.

Don't think it will help, as his cars were race cars and happened on a track.

 

[ROYMAN]

I just thought I should say something... I have an 04 and although it may be impossible to pinpoint exactly what happened at this point, especially given there was a subsequent accident but this past october my viper was involved in a minor accident. No body work had to be done except some paint work but my right rear knuckle failed and it almost got me killed. Luckily, the car and myself are OK but major suspension work needed to be done... I blamed it on a pothole at the time because it was the only thing I could think of but my car has never been tracked and the pothole was not that big. Perhaps its the same issue?

 

[bluesrt]

i hope this isnt turning into the toyota stuck throttle havoc

 

[dester243]

So what is breaking and what should be examined? Is it the control arms or the knuckle? If inspecting... What should you look for. I assume it will be hard to see stress fractures on alum control arms.

 

[ROYMAN]

In my case the entire control arm went. My wheel was literally turned inward and I almost slammed into a wall... I find it hard to believe that something like that could happen from a minor pothole but it was the only possible explanation I could think of

 

[Magnus_]

Years ago I too had a rear control arm failure at the track.

I chalked it up to inexperience but looking back at what happened, and the pictures from the damage, i'm 95% positive its exactly whats described here, rear control arm failure, right rear tire instantly turned inward, car spun around before I knew what was happening.

 

[CaptainDavid]

I really hope someone from Chrysler/SRT is looking into this. Not interested in 90 degree unrequested turns at any speed. Like I said before"I need therapy".

 

[Garron]

I just thought I should say something... I have an 04 and although it may be impossible to pinpoint exactly what happened at this point, especially given there was a subsequent accident but this past october my viper was involved in a minor accident. No body work had to be done except some paint work but my right rear knuckle failed and it almost got me killed. Luckily, the car and myself are OK but major suspension work needed to be done... I blamed it on a pothole at the time because it was the only thing I could think of but my car has never been tracked and the pothole was not that big. Perhaps its the same issue?

The above post you said the knuckle failed, in the one below you said the control arm failed. Can you clarify?

In my case the entire control arm went. My wheel was literally turned inward and I almost slammed into a wall... I find it hard to believe that something like that could happen from a minor pothole but it was the only possible explanation I could think of

Years ago I too had a rear control arm failure at the track.

I chalked it up to inexperience but looking back at what happened, and the pictures from the damage, i'm 95% positive its exactly whats described here, rear control arm failure, right rear tire instantly turned inward, car spun around before I knew what was happening.

Control arm failure or knuckle?? the two parts are very different

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

http://www.saultstar.com/2013/05/10/two-taken-to-hospital check this out, look at rear wheel and the angle.. root cause of not

 

[Garron]

http://www.saultstar.com/2013/05/10/two-taken-to-hospital check this out, look at rear wheel and the angle.. root cause of not

Hey Elevatortec,

With the knuckle being made of aluminum I would expect that part to break before any part of the rear frame giving way. It is very common to see a normal daily driver with wheels pointed all over the place after an accident.

PS: are you going to try to make the wild wing event on Thursday??

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

we might make it, I work in Toronto but Live in Peterborough

 

[SLViper]

A single car accident closed Goulais Avenue shortly after 7 p.m. tonight when a Dodge Viper (2003 SRT-10 convertable, reports another reader) lost control after reportedly avoiding a deer.
 
Traveling at a high rate of speed, the car lost control , hitting the ditch on one side of the road and striking a telephone pole where the two occupants were ejected before the car came to rest upside down in the ditch on the opposite side of the road.
 
Both occupants were taken to Sault area hospital.
 

 

[Magnus_]

Control arm failure or knuckle?? the two parts are very different

I don't know. Whatever is described here and by everyone else. It happened years ago and I don't have pictures of the exact part failure.

All I know is that the right rear wheel (from the pictures) is turned inward at a very sharp angle.

 

[ElevatortecGTS]

http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25542&d=1363823472
http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25541&d=1363823471

thoughts?

 

[Garron]

http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25542&d=1363823472
http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25541&d=1363823471

thoughts?

It is so hard to pin the cause of the rear supension failure on defective knuckles.

(Keep in mind your gen 2 knuckles are close to the same size as the gen 3-4 kuckles)

One of my good friends manages a body shop. I hear storys, the air bag hit me in the face I could not see and it caused an accident or my brakes stopped working or the ABS was clicking and it caused the accident.

Other vehicles have close to the same failures. I really think most of the time this is almost always the result of an impact.

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[ElevatortecGTS]

I agree with that the Gen 2 are very close in design. Other unknown factors could be in play here.. Minor Design change, engineering design of hp/tq amount of stress vs traction of tires for part,manufacturing process(machining of parts, casting process), material change, change of supplier or just a weak point that breaks first in an accident- either way a serious issue with an IRS set up

 

[SLViper]

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[SLViper]

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[SLViper]

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[SLViper]

No disrespect to anyone involved in this carnage.
I was willing to chock up all these wrecks as "Driver Error" Too much Gas pedal.
After viewing all these PICs, I now believe we have evidence of a problem.

 

[Garron]

No disrespect to anyone involved in this carnage.
I was willing to chock up all these wrecks as "Driver Error" Too much Gas pedal.
After viewing all these PICs, I now believe we have evidence of a problem.

I agree the pictures look scary, Since all of the treads started I have installed the rear supports on my car.

http://www.snakeoylproducts.com/product.php?productid=17851&cat=341&page=1

I don't think I will ever need them, but for under $300 and a piece of mind it does not make sense not too.

 

[TrevorR90]

http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25542&d=1363823472
http://forums.viperclub.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25541&d=1363823471

thoughts?

The Red Viper you posted is of my car. The NHSTA is currently looking at my car. I got a lot of crap from members here telling me that it was driver error and everything when I posted I wrecked.. I love internet detectives who can determine the cause of a wreck based on pictures.. On the internet..

 

[neilsfishing]

Looks like i need to make some support brackets

 

[TrackAire]

Again, you have to ask yourselves this, with the millions of miles driven on the road the odds of having a rear suspension fail and not end up in an accident are huge. It is just basic statistics. Please show me pictures of Vipers sitting on the side of the road with a rear suspension failure that are not wrecked.

Right now all I see is a crap load of wrecked Vipers with rear wheels bent in....this is meaningless since nobody knows what the failure is...tie rod, knuckle, A-arm, hub, etc....oh, did I mention the cars were all wrecked?

Just because a rear wheel goes into massive toe out or toe in, does not guarantee a wreck (I've seen a lot of cars sitting on the freeway with suspension failure where the wheel was literally laying sideways and the car was able to be safely brought to a stop). Once I see 5 oar 6 pictures of rear knuckle failures (or whatever the part is that is failing) that don't end up in wrecks, then I would start getting more concerned....statistically this would have to be happening.

Cheers,
George