Thanks Mark
Ideally "one stop" would be the way to go. But as you know, I didn't have a choice....
Rebuild?..again?..help!!!
- Thread starter treesnake
- Start date
Thanks Mark
Ideally "one stop" would be the way to go. But as you know, I didn't have a choice....
You will never get a straight answer- engine builder will blame it on the installer who will blame it on the person who did the tuning on top that will be the forced induction issue(with ALL the above going round an round ).I learned the hard (EXPENSIVE )way stick local with a guy who is responsible for the entire project.
Newport Viper
Enthusiast
tree,
this stinks. ! plain and simple.
there is no way you are going to win in this situation in my opinion. A.R.T./DW is tops. you and your engine are in very capable hands with him.
its hard to go get the engine tested and go after arrow (which would bring some satisfaction and you'd be right in doing so), but in the long run like you said, you will lose regardless....
its easy for me to spend YOUR money but i say hand over the engine and car to ART and let them make ya happy in the long run which they will.
keep us posted and hang in there
this stinks. ! plain and simple.
there is no way you are going to win in this situation in my opinion. A.R.T./DW is tops. you and your engine are in very capable hands with him.
its hard to go get the engine tested and go after arrow (which would bring some satisfaction and you'd be right in doing so), but in the long run like you said, you will lose regardless....
its easy for me to spend YOUR money but i say hand over the engine and car to ART and let them make ya happy in the long run which they will.
keep us posted and hang in there
I agree with you Phil.
It seems simple, pull the engine and send it to the builder. They make it right and you roll down the Highway....
But...
The reality is, common business logic, and high performance cars, don't mix...
I think my best bet is to cut my losses at this point and have ART rebuild the engine.
Trying to get back to the proven practice of getting all the work on the car done in one place.
Mike,
If I were in your shoes, I just might hop in my car and drive up to Arrow, have a face to face meeting and see if they offer to help in any way. Its much harder to blow off a customer if you are looking them in the eye. Its probably about a 7 hour drive, but might be worth a road trip.
If I were in your shoes, I just might hop in my car and drive up to Arrow, have a face to face meeting and see if they offer to help in any way. Its much harder to blow off a customer if you are looking them in the eye. Its probably about a 7 hour drive, but might be worth a road trip.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
Just returned from two days at NJ Motorsport on Thunderbolt and Lightening road courses. Took my 06 with my brand new Arrow built engine with Paxton. Diamond pistons, Carrillo rods, Chrome Moly push rods, and valve cover vents with one common catch can. The catch can literally had only a couple of drops of oil in it from the whole weekend. The engine oil after 1200 miles including 2 days at the track still looks new. Car ran great until late in the sessions when it lost power some due to heat soak (I think).
Only real problem I had and have always had since the Paxton was originally installed is some type of oil leak on the driver's side front near the bypass valve.
So, my suggestion is to contact Todd at Arrow and ask him what's going on. You've got nothing to lose except the price of the phone call.
Only real problem I had and have always had since the Paxton was originally installed is some type of oil leak on the driver's side front near the bypass valve.
So, my suggestion is to contact Todd at Arrow and ask him what's going on. You've got nothing to lose except the price of the phone call.
Joseph Dell
Enthusiast
Do yourself a favor (and have your tuner do the same thing): Next time you get an engine back, do a leak-down and compression test in between tunes. It doesn't take much time and it will definitively tell you where/when problems occur.
If DW did a leakdown _before_ he started tuning the car, then you'd know more about what happened. And any tuner who is tuning a high HP set-up for anyone that didn't build the motor themselves should be doing this. If they don't, they leave themselves open to the he-said-he-said game.
Was the motor leaking down after break-in? We'll never know. Well maybe we will. I'm assuming that DW has done a leak-down now. What were the results? Is it just one cylinder that is problematic or are they all down?
Sorry to hear about your troubles with this motor. This sounds like a royal PITA headache that nobody should have to go through.
If DW did a leakdown _before_ he started tuning the car, then you'd know more about what happened. And any tuner who is tuning a high HP set-up for anyone that didn't build the motor themselves should be doing this. If they don't, they leave themselves open to the he-said-he-said game.
Was the motor leaking down after break-in? We'll never know. Well maybe we will. I'm assuming that DW has done a leak-down now. What were the results? Is it just one cylinder that is problematic or are they all down?
Sorry to hear about your troubles with this motor. This sounds like a royal PITA headache that nobody should have to go through.
The puke cans were filling and overflowing since the day the engine was installed. During breakin, we thought there was a small leak somewhere. After tracing the leak back to the puke cans, we thought the problem was not enough baffling in VCs and/or puke cans. (Which really shouldn't have mattered on a new engine...) That was shortly before cars left for ART...
I am waiting now for some more info from DW and ART.
Thanks for the responses. It helps to get other opinions on this.
Russ M
Enthusiast
I am having a problem with the break in that you did at Arrow.
How did they break it in when the electronics were NOT tuned?
Puke cans over filling are a crankcase pressure problem, which is most likely caused by poor ring size choice and/or piston size choice, and last but not least damage caused to rings and/or pistons.
And I am not even going to get into *** were you thinking mode, where you build a motor to make 1500hp and put a Roe restriction plate on it.
How did they break it in when the electronics were NOT tuned?
Puke cans over filling are a crankcase pressure problem, which is most likely caused by poor ring size choice and/or piston size choice, and last but not least damage caused to rings and/or pistons.
And I am not even going to get into *** were you thinking mode, where you build a motor to make 1500hp and put a Roe restriction plate on it.
I have a problem with the breakin Arrow Racing (not me???) did at Arrow too?????.. That's what this is about...
Where did I say that I was building a 1500hp motor with a Roe??? ....
-You will never get anywhere near 1500hp with a 2.3 litre blower???
(unless you put a turbo running into it...)
If you take the motor apart, document all the pieces. You might have paid for things not in the motor. Just a thought. After doing that, I'd go to the place of business and handle it face to face. They can't ignore that.
Hate to hear that. I had a similar experience, a shop put back on a used front cover, which was f'ed up. Causing me to drop oil pressure and ruin a 2nd motor.
Hate to hear that. I had a similar experience, a shop put back on a used front cover, which was f'ed up. Causing me to drop oil pressure and ruin a 2nd motor.
That being the case...
The engine was built under the supervision of a .."tuner". One of the problems was that I was doing this build with a 2.3 liter blower. Thats what I was advised to do. ( I have to admit that I was a little uninformed and inexperienced here) In retrospect, I definitely would have used a different type of FI system. Why I wasn't advised of this...I don't know.
However, it is what it is. So we ported the blower and ported the intake. I implemented a CO2 system that hopefully will act as an intercooler. I have a 1st stage, 100 (dry) Nos shot firing directly into the enlarged intake port. I have a second stage 150 shot (wet) Nos fogger in the back of Roe intake "tubes". All of this flowing through some Striker heads.
With all of this working on the top half, how can the bottom half be too much. One good thing about it, I know the engine should be able to take anything I can put on it.
'have you talked to arrow lately ? what did they say ?[/quote]"
I talked to David Weaver today. Between working on my TT Street Serpent and their other customers, he hasn't been back to work on my GTS since Thursday. He will be back on it tomorrow and gathering some more specific info.
At that point, we will discuss what action to take.
Russ M
Enthusiast
Treesnake,
Plum is correct I was referring to your engine build being so over the top, for a blower that is capable of producing 700hp huffing and puffing as hard as it can.
So have you asked Arrow how they managed to run the motor on their dyno without it being tuned? Its very easy to hurt parts when detonation is present.
Isn't the Roe unit a 1.9 litter blower?
Plum is correct I was referring to your engine build being so over the top, for a blower that is capable of producing 700hp huffing and puffing as hard as it can.
So have you asked Arrow how they managed to run the motor on their dyno without it being tuned? Its very easy to hurt parts when detonation is present.
Isn't the Roe unit a 1.9 litter blower?
99 R/T 10
Enthusiast
The Roe is a 2.4.
Simms
Enthusiast
Treesnake,
Really sorry to hear this. I can see how frustrated you are. Whatever you decide to do regarding Arrow, you are in good hands with DW, Cody, and the guys from A.R.T. Hopefully David can salvage a large part of your current build, assuming it is a ring issue etc.
Now tell us about that SRT TT!
Really sorry to hear this. I can see how frustrated you are. Whatever you decide to do regarding Arrow, you are in good hands with DW, Cody, and the guys from A.R.T. Hopefully David can salvage a large part of your current build, assuming it is a ring issue etc.
Now tell us about that SRT TT!
Not sure who or what this is about but.....
- I have an email stating that the engine was dyno'd at Arrow, oil filter was cut open etc...
Interesting that this post comes up today though. I just sent this engine back to Arrow, literally yesterday, to be checked out.
I don't understand your post. First, you tell me "to get my facts straight before I start bashing Arrow".... As if I was doing something wrong.
Then you tell me that I was ripped off for $690 by Arrow, my engine wasn't dyno'd..... As if Arrow was in the wrong...
This particular engine build has been a literal nightmare for me. several people on here have followed and helped by giving me suggestions and options through their experience.
I really don't want or need this to be out in the public anymore either.
Things like this ALWAYS get blown way out of proportion.
If you have some info for me, please send me a PM and I will contact you.
Please spare the 'DRAMA"...
How's this for getting my facts straight.
It looks like "Mike Perkins'" engine was run on a dyno to me...
*Note the date this started....
"Todd Claucherty" <>12/19/2007 03:12 PM
Tom,
Mike Perkins engine made 595 ft. lbs. of torque @ 4300 RPM and 514.1 horse-power @ 5200 RPM. A cylinder compression and leak down tests are next, then we cut the second oil filter apart and if it looks as good as the first one we can ship tomorrow.
Todd Claucherty
Arrow Racing Engines
I am not trying to incriminate Arrow racing with this email. As you can see, this email is a direct contradiction to DYNO DALE'S statements...
I am trying to work with Todd at Arrow to come up with a fair solution. Figures there would be some "e- forum"....drama.....
After three years of building this car, I really, really want to drive it this year.
(with the new 3.6 intercooled blower too.... )
It looks like "Mike Perkins'" engine was run on a dyno to me...
*Note the date this started....
"Todd Claucherty" <>12/19/2007 03:12 PM
Please respond to
To
cc
Subject
Dyno runTom,
Mike Perkins engine made 595 ft. lbs. of torque @ 4300 RPM and 514.1 horse-power @ 5200 RPM. A cylinder compression and leak down tests are next, then we cut the second oil filter apart and if it looks as good as the first one we can ship tomorrow.
Todd Claucherty
Arrow Racing Engines
I am not trying to incriminate Arrow racing with this email. As you can see, this email is a direct contradiction to DYNO DALE'S statements...
I am trying to work with Todd at Arrow to come up with a fair solution. Figures there would be some "e- forum"....drama.....
After three years of building this car, I really, really want to drive it this year.
(with the new 3.6 intercooled blower too....
)
eucharistos
Enthusiast
) 
"Get my facts straight"..?....
Besides the above fact from Arrow that contradicts your claim.....
I found another interesting fact....
Below is "DYNO DALES" first post on the VCA.
Apparently "DYNO DALE" works at Arrow Racing...
Enthusiast
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 4
Location: MI
Posts: 4
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Last edited by Dyno_Dale; 10-25-2009 at 08:04 PM.
Soooo....
I have an employee of Arrow Racing (DYNO DALE) telling me that my car WAS NOT DYNO'D. And that I should question where the $690 that I paid for dyno/breakin went?????
AND...
I have an email from a manager at Arrow Racing telling me that my engine WAS dyno'd????The "nonexistent" dyno run even comes with HP numbers and a bill$????
AND...
I have a very expensive engine, with only 600 breakin miles, with huge ring problems. (Remember, I paid extra to have rings "seated" and engine checked on dynobefore delivery in case something like this happened)
This engine was pulled...again....and is currently on its way back to Arrow right now....
Any Opinions????
LifeIsGood
Enthusiast
I hate to say it, but you might need to lawyer up...just something to think about 
.
.
