Road&Track 1 mile test

[Jay Herbert]

Jay, I am sorry you just do not get it. And probably never will. It is one thing to ban an individual or company from advertising here (though your "rules" should be clear to all and applied equally without prejudice). It is another level to ban the person from posting on the web site. But it is over the line to prohibit others from typing the individual's or company's name.

Can you imagine a school that would disallow text books from stating the name of the bad guys? You do not have to imagine, you can go to places like North Korea if you want to experience that type of freedom of speach (or the USSR a few years back). I think this board should play by reasonable rules, applied equally, that are consistent with the societal norms. Your norm would be punishment to those who whisper his name, for fear that mere mention of the name will create new customers. Give the web populace a bit more credit.

We tried not blanking out the vendors name. Here is what happened: A group of people plugged the vendor like mad, the vendor registered under aliases and plugged himself like mad, and badmouth his competitors even though he was not to post at all (one time the vendor pretended to be John Thompson, the publisher of VIPER Magazine, that was funny). Then the poeple who had huge issues with the vendor got in battles with the vendor and those plugging him. It was the same over and over and over and over. The [*****] method is used by nearly all car forums. It eliminates nearly all the problems mentioned.

Remember, text books are reviewed by a school board before landing in schools, and most text books, by their nature try to mention "bad guys" and then tell why they were "bad" (based on the societal norms of the times). I doubt you will see the word ****** ever mentioned in a text book without mention of the genicide he tried to execute. Funny thing is there is a group of people out their trying to say the genicide never happened.... go figure, sound familiar to issues here?

When someone is plugging a supplier here that is highly problamatic, your expectation is that every time that happens, the person that has an issue responds with an equal negetive.... so there are ninety happy customers fighting with the ten unhappy customers all the time.... which is why the battles always occur. Just like they are in this thread. Right?

What is your proposed solution to the following situation: There is a vendor that regularly has customer issues.... orders of magnitude more customer issues than the other vendors (who do many more cars than this vendor). The Vendor owes club members legal judgements, the vendor owes suppliers legal judgements, situations the other vendors are not in.

Should a warning be posted about the vendor? Suggestions..... Really. I would love for a solution that eliminates the repeat of this issue. One that informs postential customers of very real issues with documented problimatic vendors, but eliminates the reruns like this thread.

 

[GR8_ASP]

How about instead of the asterisks it replaces the name with the name plus a link to a summary that provides insight into the situation. Obviously that would need to be carefully worded to provide accurate and defendable information. That may be better than the asterisk treatment.

Something like:

Vendor ABC ( Click link for details )

Another comment regarding how this is applied. Rules should be clear. Once all legal issues are resolved it would seem that a new clean slate would begin. Oviously the history is not lost, but the solitary confinement should end. You stated that once he has paid all his dues and satisfied the customers, that he would be cleared after years of good service. That seems rather open ended to me. It may be better to set a reasonable tip level rather than perfection. H could pay off everyone with a million dollars each and never achieve the "completely satisfied" requirement. That sounds like a life sentence.

The bottom line is that no matter the bad that he has done, he has done more positive image building for the Viper than all the other vendors combined. That does not condone or accept the bad, but puts a more realistic perspective on it. Based on the lack of web information I have no idea if his business is more or less ethical now than it was 2 years ago. I prefer to be informed rather than ignorant.

 

[STUGOTS]

I guess until the name is allowed to be spelled out the only way to get the point across is with pics like this little number here

 

[BigCarrot]

*DELETED*

 

[BigCarrot]

Ned, don't be so ashamed, honey! You no love me long time???

 

[Casey]

I like the idea that new members will instantly see the name Blanked out with asterics and then wonder why.
If they do a bit of research, they will learn quickly why it showed up like that.

Once you are here for a while, you get used to it. But you always remember why he's blanked out.

Which is MOST important.

Maybe there is another way to handle it. But I am glad to see that others are being warned so that they don't run into trouble head on.

JMO of course.

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

I have been quiet on this issue for sometime and I will continue to try to work behind the scenes; but frankly, the VCA National Directors have ignored my multiple attempts to resolve these problems for almost 6 months!

I am a long standing Viper Owner, VCA Memeber and owner of a new Viper Wheel Business. [*****] Performance Wheels.

I know all the history, I do have a relationship with John, but I have 100% satisfaction with all my customers. As a VCA Member I am being damaged, for no reason, based I how I choose to market my wheels.

Anthony Waller
Owner, [*****] Performance Wheels

 

[GR8_ASP]

Dumb question, but how does an asterisk indicate to someone what company to watch out for? You have to misspell it in order to tell the new user what the asterisks mean. Stupid.

The previous post is the perspective I was trying to bring forward. How can a name be outlawed. A specific comany, yes. A specific individual, yes. But a name. Could it be that John is the only person with that last name in the entire world? Or that John has the only company with those letters in the entire world? To both the answer is of course not. So find another way than to provide asterisks.

 

[STUGOTS]

I like the idea that new members will instantly see the name Blanked out with asterics and then wonder why.
If they do a bit of research, they will learn quickly why it showed up like that.

Once you are here for a while, you get used to it. But you always remember why he's blanked out.

Which is MOST important.

Maybe there is another way to handle it. But I am glad to see that others are being warned so that they don't run into trouble head on.

JMO of course.

Casey your right THAT is most important but the problem here is how can they do research when they cant type the name in the search tab? I think it should atleast be allowed there so people can research and draw his/her own opinion.

 

[SRTRICKY]

I guess until the name is allowed to be spelled out the only way to get the point across is with pics like this little number here

LMAO

 

[SRTRICKY]

My take on the article, two words: It Broke.

And MY take on YOU is that you're a *********. Before you get all sour, I want you to know that I mean that as a sincere compliment. You take all of the nasty stink out, and make it clean again. I'm sure someone here appreciates that. WHY do you find it necessary to bash John every time you get a chance? Can't you drop it??? What did he do to YOU?

Because he owes a friend of mine over $120,000. After completely botching up his car, this is what he was awarded by the courts. Because I STILL get a call approximately every six months from another Viper owner who took their car to the "little shop of horrors" because of some magazine article, and got a car back that does not run on pump gas. Every one of these people is a Viper family member to me.... When the people that are legally owed money, are all paid and the calls stop for a few years, I'll quit bringing it up, seem fair to you?

Maybe with your tremendous reverence and obvious clout with this individual, you can get Gary his $120,000.... it would be a start. Any assistance would certainly be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The hell with any positives JH has brought to the Viper community if he owes people money in sums of 100k+ I know I would NEVER deal with his shady ass company! I was actually thinknig about getting the Henny wheels instead of some HRE's but I think I'll just spare the extra 2k and spend it on a company that doesn't screw people over like JH does! I would never deal with JH after hearing all the crap about his company and anyone that visits this site and still deals with him, and then gets ripped off should just be laughed at! (Although this viperclub.org should unsensor JH's name so everyone can know about the crap he pulls) Those that didn't know well I feel sorry for them and they should fly down there and introduce their right fist to his face! I know if someone ripped of me off on 100k plus I'd make sure I beat every little penny out of their little body!

Ricky

 

[sween]

very well said. on the website you can order the new coupe from him but i bet nobody did that because they dont want to lose 88k. i wonder why JH dosent post on this site? lol

 

[BigCarrot]

very well said. on the website you can order the new coupe from him but i bet nobody did that because they dont want to lose 88k. i wonder why JH dosent post on this site? lol

Go away, dork. And don't even think about writing some smart response, because I'll chew your silly ass up and spit it out on your shoes.

 

[sween]

ok

 

[BigCarrot]

Good dog.

 

[Casey]

Casey your right THAT is most important but the problem here is how can they do research when they cant type the name in the search tab? I think it should atleast be allowed there so people can research and draw his/her own opinion.

I agree 100%.

People need to be able to get the info and determine for themselves if they want to deal with him.

 

[Casey]

I have been quiet on this issue for sometime and I will continue to try to work behind the scenes; but frankly, the VCA National Directors have ignored my multiple attempts to resolve these problems for almost 6 months!

I am a long standing Viper Owner, VCA Memeber and owner of a new Viper Wheel Business. [*****] Performance Wheels.

I know all the history, I do have a relationship with John, but I have 100% satisfaction with all my customers. As a VCA Member I am being damaged, for no reason, based I how I choose to market my wheels.

Anthony Waller
Owner, [*****] Performance Wheels

You are definately in a tough spot. I personally don't think you are being damaged because you are a VCA member. I think it's more because of your partners behavior.

I don't think working behind the scenes to convince the VCA to change their stance will help any.

I think it's better you work to convince customers that you are in control and backing the product, not the other guy that continues to prove he doesn't back much.

JMO, and I wish you luck with the Wheels. Truely, they are gorgeous wheels.!

 

[Casey]

I have been quiet on this issue for sometime and I will continue to try to work behind the scenes; but frankly, the VCA National Directors have ignored my multiple attempts to resolve these problems for almost 6 months!

I am a long standing Viper Owner, VCA Memeber and owner of a new Viper Wheel Business. [*****] Performance Wheels.

I know all the history, I do have a relationship with John, but I have 100% satisfaction with all my customers. As a VCA Member I am being damaged, for no reason, based I how I choose to market my wheels.

Anthony Waller
Owner, [*****] Performance Wheels

You are definately in a tough spot. I personally don't think you are being damaged because you are a VCA member. I think it's more because of your partners behavior.

I don't think working behind the scenes to convince the VCA to change their stance will help any.

I think it's better you work to convince customers that you are in control and backing the product, not the other guy that continues to prove he doesn't back much.

JMO, and I wish you luck with the Wheels. Truely, they are gorgeous wheels.!

 

[Anthony - 98 GTS]

JMO, and I wish you luck with the Wheels. Truly, they are gorgeous wheels.!

Thanks Casey. I have put a lot of time, effort and investment into [*****] Performance Wheels as it combines my 2 passions in life: Viper's and the wheels they roll on. We are trying to compile the largest in-stock inventory of Viper specific wheels in the country.

I personally stand behind everything we do and manufacture and I never charge a customer until I ship the product.

We have already supported the Houston VCA and hope to be able to provide support and raffle prizes to other Viper Clubs around the country.

Anthony

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Hmmm.............wonder how you can order a Blue/White Viper from Johnny H. when only 200 are being built and most Dealers have no idea if they will even get one - I don't believe he recently acquired a franchise.

 

[sween]

there only making 200 B/W i thought there making 400?

 

[Jay Herbert]

I have been quiet on this issue for sometime and I will continue to try to work behind the scenes; but frankly, the VCA National Directors have ignored my multiple attempts to resolve these problems for almost 6 months!

I have seen many successful wheel companies start up over the last few years, all started out by building their own brand and identity (Complete Custom Wheel is a good example), my personal opinion is the name you have chosen is hindering, not helping your business, in certain circles. It would be easier to choose a different name to promote your products to those that have had significant issues with the other similarly named business.......
That's just my opinion.

 

[GTS21]

very well said. on the website you can order the new coupe from him but i bet nobody did that because they dont want to lose 88k. i wonder why JH dosent post on this site? lol

Go away, dork. And don't even think about writing some smart response, because I'll chew your silly ass up and spit it out on your shoes.

********* is a crook. The truth hurts.

 

[Gforce]

I think what Jay is trying to say is the rules for monitoring and policing a bulletin board are quite complex - but are an absolute must in one form or another.

I read from his previous mail that a new policy is in the process of being drafted to be ratified in January. I would highly recommend people who feel strongly about the subject (one way or the other) to work with Jay and the national officers to draft the appropriate policy.

Not that I don't enjoy the drama

J

 

[pj]

Interestingly enough, JH (not the Herbert one) has more to do with the Viper image than the entire VCA. I can meet some Viper owner on the street and ask if they know about the VCA website and they don't have a clue, but mention [******] and they know who you are talking about.

If I was owed money, you can bet I'd be making a stink about it. But I can't help but wonder how many people here own businesses and got stiffed by a client or another business that went under? Probably more than a few.

In the past few years, I've seen JH make good on alot of past debts. The guy probably could have wiped them all clean in court, but he's been working to rebuild.

So, I ask you this - would you rather se ehim out of business and nobody getting a dime or would you rather see him rebuild his business properly and work his ass off to pay off old debts?

JH has taken alot of crap over the years - much of it deserved; but when most of us would have packed up and left, JH stuck to it and has worked hard to rebuild his trust with the Viper community.

But I will tell you this - out of 10 Viper owners how many people do you think know JH's name? And how many do you think know about this website? or who the VCA President is? or who ran the original (and this) Viper site? I'd put my money on them knowing JH's name any day of the week.

 

[STUGOTS]

Thats true, EVERYONE knows JH = vipers, even ricers lol

 

[Jay Herbert]

In the past few years, I've seen JH make good on alot of past debts. The guy probably could have wiped them all clean in court, but he's been working to rebuild.

Sorry, this is one needing some clarification. "Making good on a debt" is not paying cents on the dollar because the person owed the money figures they cannot get blood from a stone, so they agree under duress figuring pennies is better than nothing. All the while the JH claims he is "Doing people right" by paying his debts (and people Parrot him to the same tune) forgetting to mention the cents on the dollar part. Agree it is the right thing to pay off rather than declare bankruptcy, but be honest about what is really be paid. Also, don't forget to point out that he often "makes good on debts" when he has to, like paying the more than ten years of Houston back axes and penalties when he recently had to move his business back to Houston. Coincidence?

I will credit him for paying one debt in full, with interest! After the person had extradition papers (from Texas to Louisiana) and an arrest warrant prepared. That fellow has a copy of the check framed and hanging on the wall of his garage. JH was even nice enough to drop me an email touting paying the person, and "doing the right thing".... but he forgot to tell me about the extradition and warrant part, that came out when I checked with the person to see if he was actually paid. There is always more to the story.

Do you honestly believe that there are not any Viper tuners cars out their that could easily perform as well or better in magazines, jeese, another tuners heads and cam "650" car ran a 197 mph standing mile for gosh sake, with 400 less horsepower and no smoking trail. I'm sure they would have showed up if they were allowed to, but they weren't, and they offered.....

 

[STUGOTS]

JH is a good tuner but he is no where near the best hes just the "best known" for whatever thats worth

 

[Casey]

Interestingly enough, JH (not the Herbert one) has more to do with the Viper image than the entire VCA. I can meet some Viper owner on the street and ask if they know about the VCA website and they don't have a clue, but mention [******] and they know who you are talking about.

If I was owed money, you can bet I'd be making a stink about it. But I can't help but wonder how many people here own businesses and got stiffed by a client or another business that went under? Probably more than a few.

In the past few years, I've seen JH make good on alot of past debts. The guy probably could have wiped them all clean in court, but he's been working to rebuild.

So, I ask you this - would you rather se ehim out of business and nobody getting a dime or would you rather see him rebuild his business properly and work his ass off to pay off old debts?

JH has taken alot of crap over the years - much of it deserved; but when most of us would have packed up and left, JH stuck to it and has worked hard to rebuild his trust with the Viper community.

But I will tell you this - out of 10 Viper owners how many people do you think know JH's name? And how many do you think know about this website? or who the VCA President is? or who ran the original (and this) Viper site? I'd put my money on them knowing JH's name any day of the week.

I would rather have seen him close up shop and NOT steal from everyone.
I would rather see him, return CASH money to everyone he Stole from, especially if he's making money now. He can take out a loan and pay them back in cash.
If he can't do that, then I would rather see him out of business.

JMO of course. But I'm a firm believer that you work hard for something. And you can fail, you can be successfull, no matter how hard you work. But you do NOT lie, cheat, and steal to make a buck!

 

[1TONY1]

JMO, and I wish you luck with the Wheels. Truly, they are gorgeous wheels.!

Thanks Casey. I have put a lot of time, effort and investment into [*****] Performance Wheels as it combines my 2 passions in life: Viper's and the wheels they roll on. We are trying to compile the largest in-stock inventory of Viper specific wheels in the country.

I personally stand behind everything we do and manufacture and I never charge a customer until I ship the product.

We have already supported the Houston VCA and hope to be able to provide support and raffle prizes to other Viper Clubs around the country.

Anthony

How about if they allow the name HPW to represent your business on the VCA site ? Get that url and let it point to your website ?

http://www.HPW.com