Roe racing ported heads and 710 cam plus sct tune????

[cash84]

if you have bucking in a gear like that, its a tune issue.

I got a quick reply from Sean at Roe Racing and you are right but it was already fix in my tune and what causes the bucking to be there still is my Lightweight flywheel. Here's his message. I didn't even tell him that I have a Lightweight flywheel.

Hi Jeff,
Fuel wise, since the PCM is adapting to achieve a lean air / fuel ratio, the
only thing we can do at a light load cruise is make an adjustment that would
have an impact on whether or not the PCM adaptive is close to 0% or not.
Beyond that, we can tweak timing (more advance) and that helps.
Those things are already done on your tunes, but if you feel anything is off
or could be improved on specifically with your car, please let me know.
However, I would say that with a big cam, in all years of Vipers, tends to
give that condition and it isn't possible to remove all of the bucking.
Light weight flywheels have a large impact on the condition and can
exaggerate it.

Wow! Nice vids guys and thanks for the imput...

Dropped her off for surgery an hour ago. Pick up and dyno scheduled for monday.


Cash84 man nice to here. I have kn intake/arrow rockers/titanium exhaust with no cats/findanza flywheel/smaller underdrive pully and sct tune. Pre 710 cam number is 480 rwhp and 520 tq on the stock cam/486 rwhp and 435 rwt on the competition coup camshaft. (also have stock headers like you)


I opted not to do head porting as i will get roe racing fully done heads next year.

After seeing your numbers its gonna be quite interesting to see what numbers she makes with the 710 camshaft and the thinner gen 4 head gaskets. Honestly after your numbers Im starting to belieave that a 70 rwhp gain may actually be possible

Awesome!! Let me know if they will have to shave down the intake to make sure the ports align up because I like to go thinner headgasket to bump the CR to 10.6:1 -10.8:1.

Heres a qick vid of the competition coup camshaft. Gave me 7 rwhp and 12 rwt peak hp but 20 rwhp and 25 rwt through the rpm range. Was about 2 mph faster through the quarter mile with this than the stock camshaft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCTfFjxNUXY

Awesome video! DO POST before and after. Same if you have stock cam. It would help many owners out what to choose.

Here's a long video but only for sound and a few quick pulls. http://www.youtube.com/user/mrcashviper?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase

2nd gear pull http://www.youtube.com/user/mrcashviper?blend=1&ob=video-mustangbase#p/u/0/M24yocGg2c8

 

[ssjcreeper]

ATP,

Been digging that clip of your ride for some time. Didn't realize you had GG heads with the cam. What kind of numbers did that combo put down?

Compression? Yes. Greg milled the heads. I think he said it should be around 10 or 10.5:1 can't remember.
Specs:
Roe 710 = lift intake .596 exhaust .595, lobe sep 114, duration 244 intake 246 exhaust
Comp grind 3634/3635 = lift intake .601 exhaust .606, lobe sep 114, duration 232 intake 236 exhaust
I had 2 degrees advance ground.

 

[plumcrazy]

Didn't know you had a flywheel. I'd guess that's most of the issue. I don't have one so can't say.....I bet Sean can tune some of it out though.

 

[Atppilot]

Creeper, I have not put it on the dyno. I have Titan Motorsports down the road and just have not taken the time to pay them a visit; guess it is about 650 at the FW. Believe it not, I was just looking at making this thing sound like a hot rod rather than a UPS truck. Like everyone says... I went ahead a spent the money on the head work while they were off - that Greg is one master porter. When I got them back I just wanted to display them in my office, ha!

 

[Twister]

Ok. Ive got some vids of my stock cam sound lurking around..

Im planning on a full video of stock sound verses comp coupe sound vs 710 sound pluus best quarter mile pass and best rwhp for each.



Unfortunetly right now Im running into a slight problem. I didnt recieve my tune via email for the 710 camshaft from roe racing yet. We were encountering a pay problem as my credit card kept putting a hold on their transactions. Lots of thefts this time of year but I explained to my credit card company that Roe Racing is a great company and no need to hold the transactions.

Bottom line is I dont know if they received the funds before close of buisness on Friday. If thats the case then Im gonna have to get this transaction done quickly on Monday as my car is completed on Monday and the shop fit me into a very tight schedule. They are gonna be pretty ********** if my car has to stay on their rack and they cant start other vehicles come Monday

 

[Twister]

Just got from the shop. They are moving along quickly! They will begin heat cycles tomorrow. I told them about tne tune and they said as long as I can get in on Monday that we can afr dyno as scheduled.

 

[plumcrazy]

Good to hear its moving along ?

 

[shooter_t1]

Opps sorry I misread your post! Thought you meant comp coupe cam lol yes that is similar

I just found out on my iPhone I can upload videos now haha so here's the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-p6qwZ7JD4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Enjoy I'll have another one of me driving it, sounds beautiful!

Sounds good. What is the check engine light on for?.

 

[cash84]

Didn't know you had a flywheel. I'd guess that's most of the issue. I don't have one so can't say.....I bet Sean can tune some of it out though.

I thought I mention that in one of my post but I may have not. It's very mild which does show at the beginning of my video that it bucks. I'm not too concern. I did ask Sean a while back that it was running too rich at idle. He lean that out abit but only slightly rich during start up which is normal. I don't think Sean can get it any better since I do have a lightly flywheel.

Ok. Ive got some vids of my stock cam sound lurking around..

Im planning on a full video of stock sound verses comp coupe sound vs 710 sound pluus best quarter mile pass and best rwhp for each.



Unfortunetly right now Im running into a slight problem. I didnt recieve my tune via email for the 710 camshaft from roe racing yet. We were encountering a pay problem as my credit card kept putting a hold on their transactions. Lots of thefts this time of year but I explained to my credit card company that Roe Racing is a great company and no need to hold the transactions.

Bottom line is I dont know if they received the funds before close of buisness on Friday. If thats the case then Im gonna have to get this transaction done quickly on Monday as my car is completed on Monday and the shop fit me into a very tight schedule. They are gonna be pretty ********** if my car has to stay on their rack and they cant start other vehicles come Monday

Gotta love the holidays huh? lol Well hope it all gets figured out by tomorrow. I'll be waiting on the video

Sounds good. What is the check engine light on for?.

Thats for I have no cats and it is turned off in the program but doesn't mean it will go away. I would have to try to use simulators to get rid of it. Its annoying i know lol.

 

[plumcrazy]

spark plug nonfoulers work well for that allegedly....

 

[Twister]

Just get a lil viper head sticker and post it over the check engine light.. He he he. Thatll be my plan.

 

[Twister]

Just got from the shop. Cam is installed and springs are in place. They were tightening the roller rockers. Still looks to be on schedule for dyno tomorrow.

Just gotta get the tune from roe racing early tomorrow morning.

 

[345s-bspinnin]

Thanks for the updates Twister. Did you do the five angle valve job, or just cam/springs? Even if just cam/springs, that appears to be a really quick job. Can't wait for the dyno.

 

[witz323]

Yeah, it's been a long time! I haven't been doing a lot in the IL viper club lately since I've been busy over the summer also the fact that the engine blew Very happy how it turned out but I had to buy another block because it got destoryed. That was the most expensive part I had to buy lol. It happens and learned to get a 08 swing arm before I track the Viper again. Going to the winter party in Feb?

What does the '08 swing arm do for you? I'm not sure if I can make the winter party. I have a snowmobile trip planned that same weekend. If the snow is bad, i'll head down to the party.

 

[Twister]

Just cam and springs with zero head work.


Car went from 480 rwhp to 590 rwhp with just the camshaft!








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IN MY DREAM LAST NIGHT...

lol. Cars almost back together and will be dynoed tomorrow. Probally just jinxed myself... Todays my anniversary and wish the dyno could have happened today but oh well.


Sorry for pulling your leg!

 

[SlayerLS1]

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Red Snake]

Probably a little bit too late now, but I would be very careful bumping up the compression on the stock pistons. The stock Gen III pistons are EXTREMELY brittle and the least bit of detonation can chip a piece of the piston off or crack it.


Good luck. Hope it works out.

 

[Twister]

Thanks red snake. You think going from 9.6 to 9.9 is a big deal?

Just waiting for them to call me and tell me when to come for dyno at tnis point

 

[plumcrazy]

did you get the tune ?

 

[Twister]

Bad news... Ran out of time and no dyno today.

Good news is the car started and idled much better than I expected from seans tune sent via email.

If the stock cam idle is a 5... Then the comp coupe cam is a 6. The 710s idle is a 7.5. I WAS EXPECTING A 9. But Im pleasently surprised that it idled quite smoothly with a nice lope.

Drove it home and had to stay under 3k rpms because my installer wants me to let the new springs seat themselves. He says tomorrow morning the srprings will be good and cold and the heat cycling will be complete and I can get on it as much as I want.


Drove it 25 miles home in a congested freeway full of traffic and was extremely surprised that the drivability was excellent. Hardly any differant than a stock cammed gen3 other than just haveing to give just a lil more gas in the lower rpms. Thats a big relief.


Im thinking Sean sent me an initally very safe tune because my neibors said my exhaust was shooting flames randomly. Suggesting shes very rich.


Dynoing on saturday and getting an afr reading to send back to Sean at roeracing to get her spot on...

Stay tuned

 

[plumcrazy]

good news.....

 

[Twister]

ill get up a quick initial vid of the sound today. nothin fancy. saving that for the full review with quarter mile times and dyno.

 

[Twister]

Before I begine let me make it clear that this is still the initial tune. basically just enough to get it running safely and seems quite rich with excessive flames from tghe exhaust ever 5 seconds or so. This is in no way a review of the product buy just my initial observation before dyno and more tuneing this saturday

took her out for a spin. man he drivability is easy. might be easier to drive than the comp coupe 708 cam was. basically it feels like its sleeping anything under 3000 rpm. Talking silky smooth. I was afraid it would be nightmarish to crawl around in but thus far has been just the opposit.

Did 4 or 5 40-120 mph pulls. Hard to say if it felt anyfaster. It was a really strange sensation. I did notice the back of my head slam into my seat harder than ever before. It caught me by surprise the first time and I slammed her at 65 mph in second gear a few more times and it was the same thing. Have a slight headache now...No BS.

But despite how much more force was put onto my head the exhaust note just didnt give the same sensation of speed as the comp coupe camshaft did.

Basically where the comp coupe camshaft would literally scream from 40-120 mph the 710 camshaft seems to lazily growl. Despite my head telling me more G forces are being applied my ears are telling me Im barely acellerateing even when in the triple digits.

Hopeing once the air/fuel is optimized and timing is adjusted the 710 camshaft will scream like I envisioned..

Had to stop playing because I had excessive smoke coming from my passenger exhaust pipeing. This scared the hell outta me and I booked it home to apply the waterhose as I just knew my snake was on FIRE!!!!!!!!!!

It was so hot that the rain drops that hit my side sills as the door was open evaporated like spit on an iron. Luckily there was no fire just excessive heat from a seemingly far too rich tune spitting flames through the exhaust. why only the right side smoked I have no idea.

My guess would be shes sitting around 520 rwhp and 550 rwt extremely rich. Ill see how close I am this Saturday. If Im right about my 520 rwhp guess I can defiently see this car sitting at 545-565 rwhp after Sean retunes the AFR.

Till then heres a quick vid of the 710 camshaft idle on a stock headers and stock heads viper.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ldFnp6sMFo

BTW anyone else have that tapping under the valve covers with a differant camshaft springs and forged rods?

 

[cash84]

What does the '08 swing arm do for you? I'm not sure if I can make the winter party. I have a snowmobile trip planned that same weekend. If the snow is bad, i'll head down to the party.

"08 swing arm will prevent oil stravation. If you have a long enough turn at high g's, you can run out of oil (which is what happened to mine). Well gotta register within a time limit to come to the party lol. Only happens once a year but I hear its gonna be big (it usually does every year).

Before I begine let me make it clear that this is still the initial tune. basically just enough to get it running safely and seems quite rich with excessive flames from tghe exhaust ever 5 seconds or so. This is in no way a review of the product buy just my initial observation before dyno and more tuneing this saturday

took her out for a spin. man he drivability is easy. might be easier to drive than the comp coupe 708 cam was. basically it feels like its sleeping anything under 3000 rpm. Talking silky smooth. I was afraid it would be nightmarish to crawl around in but thus far has been just the opposit.

Did 4 or 5 40-120 mph pulls. Hard to say if it felt anyfaster. It was a really strange sensation. I did notice the back of my head slam into my seat harder than ever before. It caught me by surprise the first time and I slammed her at 65 mph in second gear a few more times and it was the same thing. Have a slight headache now...No BS.

But despite how much more force was put onto my head the exhaust note just didnt give the same sensation of speed as the comp coupe camshaft did.

Basically where the comp coupe camshaft would literally scream from 40-120 mph the 710 camshaft seems to lazily growl. Despite my head telling me more G forces are being applied my ears are telling me Im barely acellerateing even when in the triple digits.

Hopeing once the air/fuel is optimized and timing is adjusted the 710 camshaft will scream like I envisioned..

Had to stop playing because I had excessive smoke coming from my passenger exhaust pipeing. This scared the hell outta me and I booked it home to apply the waterhose as I just knew my snake was on FIRE!!!!!!!!!!

It was so hot that the rain drops that hit my side sills as the door was open evaporated like spit on an iron. Luckily there was no fire just excessive heat from a seemingly far too rich tune spitting flames through the exhaust. why only the right side smoked I have no idea.

My guess would be shes sitting around 520 rwhp and 550 rwt extremely rich. Ill see how close I am this Saturday. If Im right about my 520 rwhp guess I can defiently see this car sitting at 545-565 rwhp after Sean retunes the AFR.

Till then heres a quick vid of the 710 camshaft idle on a stock headers and stock heads viper.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ldFnp6sMFo

BTW anyone else have that tapping under the valve covers with a differant camshaft springs and forged rods?

Nice video, I don't think it should be shooting flames out since I have the same cam and the first tune from Sean. It did run rich but after the A/F ratio sent, it went away. That tapping should not even be there! My engine is very quiet under the hood! I think thats kinda booges that the installer was worried about the springs seating? I beat mine the first time I drove it because I had to seat the rings.

As for that tapping, can you ask what pushrod length they used? Mine was 7.600". But yours should be some like 7.550-7.500" since your head is shaved. I don't like that ticking. If you look at my video of the start up. You can tell it's very quiet under my hood.

 

[vp97]

Twister- Your car cranks over really slow, maybe time for a new battery before you start tuning on it! Your valve train noise does seem a tad on the loud side. In my experience, changing springs and pushrods won't add more noise. Have your shop recheck the pushrod length and lifter preload before beating on it again. Was your new cam degreed when it was installed? Or at least checked? Waiting to see your final dyno numbers!

 

[Twister]

repost.........

 

[Twister]

repost........

 

[Twister]

disreguard the video and my comments earlier....my mechanic was spot on. It was just a plug wire that had come undone. So the video and my first romping impressions were all based on 9 cylinders...he he he




Took me 30 minutes to get that stubborn plug wire back on. Got her back to health and ran diagnostics with my sct and it was p300 and p307 and p308. So that explains why the car didnt seem to scream to me earlier and why the valve train noise was excessive.

took her out for a spin and man what a beaste. The engine note and acelleration was better than the comp coupe camshaft and head and shoulders above the stock camshaft.

Sean Roe just has some magic in his hands because I swear my cammed viper drives just like it is on the stock camshaft. Drivability isnt even a thought. I was initially scared to do this camshaft because I figured the Viper would be hard to drive. Man I couldnt have been more wrong. Its easy to drive with this cam. Extremely easy. Idles right at 700 rpm and has a nice lope but honestly dosent seem any differant than a stock gen3 till you get on it.

Speaking of getting on it. I went out and did some quarter mile passes.

keep in mind it hasnt even been tuned for Air Fuel Ratio yet

Im not gonna go over the specifics as Im saving all the before and after dynoes as well as quartermile passes and direct comparison of engine note for another thread after the final dyno.

Basically I had a lil fun with her. Did around ten-15 passes and she was consistently 2-2.5 mph faster through the quartermile than what I did with the comp coupe camshaft. The comp coupe camshaft was consitently 1.5-2 mph faster through the quarter mile than my stock camshaft.

So even off the initial tune this cam is already 3-4 mph faster through the quartermile than the stock camshaft.

Like I mentioned Ill have everything posted in a running log Ive been working on since 2007 quartermile wise.

So far so good. Will dyno this saturday.

 

[345s-bspinnin]

So does that missing plug wire explain the excessive flame throwing, or is it still doing it?

 

[cash84]

Ooo I forgot to mention that I installed slow bleeders lifters. You can order these out of 96-01 vipers. I got the Easton's brand. I have no noise whatsoever.

As for the upgraded valve springs, did you buy the actual kit from roe racing or just the springs? My machine guy had have them fitted which ended costing more than I could have brought roe racing kit. The spring seats are not tight which means it could move around.