You know, as much as SVS seems to lead the pack in TT systems, whatever happened to independant testing? Why not go out, put down a number and be proud of it? If you aren't satisfied, more R and D, bigger number? It doesn't say much about SVS's iniative as a tuner to use another car as a benchmark. Pretty weak, actually.
SANDHILLS 1 MILE SHOOTOUT AND O.R.R. BY SVS
- Thread starter SVS Turbo
- Start date
You know, as much as SVS seems to lead the pack in TT systems, whatever happened to independant testing? Why not go out, put down a number and be proud of it? If you aren't satisfied, more R and D, bigger number? It doesn't say much about SVS's iniative as a tuner to use another car as a benchmark. Pretty weak, actually.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Ok Jr - I'm going to have a guess at your question re why you can run 200mph in 5th gear with 3.54:1 gears - if I get it right does that mean I can have a ride in it? 
My guess is that it is a combination of 2 things - the first being more significant than the second:
1) You can safely rpm much higher than the others can. Everybody seems to "super-tune" the V10 to remain within the stock rpm range and I guess there are some good reasons for doing so, but you'll have no trouble convincing me that it is not rocket science to build the V10 to go MUCH higher than 6200rpm. Mine will when I'm ready to build it - and that's a promise. And yes - at boost you'd want very precise engine management to run high rpms. If this is true - it puts you in an rpm range none of the others has ventured into yet (on boost anyway).
2) You may have also run a slightly higher rolling diameter on your tires than stock - by running bigger wheels and similar tire profile?
My guess is that it is a combination of 2 things - the first being more significant than the second:
1) You can safely rpm much higher than the others can. Everybody seems to "super-tune" the V10 to remain within the stock rpm range and I guess there are some good reasons for doing so, but you'll have no trouble convincing me that it is not rocket science to build the V10 to go MUCH higher than 6200rpm. Mine will when I'm ready to build it - and that's a promise. And yes - at boost you'd want very precise engine management to run high rpms. If this is true - it puts you in an rpm range none of the others has ventured into yet (on boost anyway).
2) You may have also run a slightly higher rolling diameter on your tires than stock - by running bigger wheels and similar tire profile?
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Jr, I think I am smart enough to answer the question, but first I have to ask: why all the hostility? I asked a simple question about the gearing, that's all. You seemed to be confused about using the parachute or not you felt rushed being late to the event and all, I thought you might have misinterpreted the rear gear ratio from your pit crew or something like that.
Nobody is using any charts against you. All people are trying to do is assimilate the information you have presented. Most Vipers will not rev to 7,000 RPM........
No, my car will not rev to 7,000 RPM.... I am sure it could with solid lifters and a roller cam. I am sure Jason Heffner could tune the ECU to manage the fuel 7,000 RPM if the engine was built to do so. But that is part of our watertight plan because as John Lingenfelter told me once, "stock is best". The Chrysler engineers did their homework and engineered the engine to run within a certain set of parameters. Since we are not spending a lot of money but still getting such good results, we succeeded as well and we are very encouraged for the future. We will run much faster with 14-15 PSI at the next race.
Jr, you said, "I will give you a hint! We can do it but I dont think you can. You can try but without stand alone engine management------ BOOM!"
Why do you have to be so antagonistic? Maybe there are other people out there who could do good things too?
Here's another one: you said, "Step right up and win a miss firing synapse prozac doll! WHO out there can be the first to answer the question?"
I do not think this is really necessary. If you have issues, you should try to work them out off the board.
By the way, it really does not take a whole lot of brains to figure this one out: Here is the website that calculates all the gearing/RPM/Tire diameter questions and breaks it down by 100 RPM increments:
http://www.f-body.org/gears/
==> This is a tool that any regular guy can use to calculate to their heart's content all ratios and tire combinations that are available.
You were running 335/30/18's on 18" BBS wheels. I have measured the MXX3 335/30/18 and it has an overall diameter of 25.8"
Tire Diameter 25.8
(in inches)
Axle Ratio 3.55
Redline (RPM)7000
First Gear 2.66
Second Gear 1.78
Third Gear 1.30
Fourth Gear 1.00
Fifth Gear .74
Sixth Gear .50
RPM 1 2 3 4 5 6th Gear
500 4 6 8 11 15 22
600 5 7 10 13 18 26
700 6 9 12 15 20 30
800 7 10 13 17 23 35
900 7 11 15 19 26 39
1000 8 12 17 22 29 43
1100 9 13 18 24 32 48
1200 10 15 20 26 35 52
1300 11 16 22 28 38 56
1400 11 17 23 30 41 61
1500 12 18 25 32 44 65
1600 13 19 27 35 47 69
1700 14 21 28 37 50 74
1800 15 22 30 39 53 78
1900 15 23 32 41 56 82
2000 16 24 33 43 58 86
2100 17 26 35 45 61 91
2200 18 27 37 48 64 95
2300 19 28 38 50 67 99
2400 20 29 40 52 70 104
2500 20 30 42 54 73 108
2600 21 32 43 56 76 112
2700 22 33 45 58 79 117
2800 23 34 47 61 82 121
2900 24 35 48 63 85 125
3000 24 36 50 65 88 130
3100 25 38 52 67 91 134
3200 26 39 53 69 93 138
3300 27 40 55 71 96 143
3400 28 41 57 74 99 147
3500 28 43 58 76 102 151
3600 29 44 60 78 105 156
3700 30 45 62 80 108 160
3800 31 46 63 82 111 164
3900 32 47 65 84 114 169
4000 33 49 67 86 117 173
4100 33 50 68 89 120 177
4200 34 51 70 91 123 182
4300 35 52 72 93 126 186
4400 36 53 73 95 129 190
4500 37 55 75 97 131 195
4600 37 56 77 99 134 199
4700 38 57 78 102 137 203
4800 39 58 80 104 140 208
4900 40 60 81 106 143 212
5000 41 61 83 108 146 216
5100 41 62 85 110 149 221
5200 42 63 86 112 152 225
5300 43 64 88 115 155 229
5400 44 66 90 117 158 234
5500 45 67 91 119 161 238
5600 46 68 93 121 164 242
5700 46 69 95 123 167 246
5800 47 70 96 125 169 251
5900 48 72 98 128 172 255
6000 49 73 100 130 175 259
6100 50 74 101 132 178 264
6200 50 75 103 134 181 268
6300 51 77 105 136 184 272
6400 52 78 106 138 187 277
6500 53 79 108 141 190 281
6600 54 80 110 143 193 285
6700 54 81 111 145 196 290
6800 55 83 113 147 199 294
6900 56 84 115 149 202 298
7000 57 85 116 151 205 303
Maybe you can post a video showing the tachometer on the digital dash going to almost 7,000. That's a pretty good way to do it if that is part of the big picture, Congrats once again, I can see the many years of R&D paying huge dividends.
Hey, I just looked at the Dyno sheet you posted and it looks pretty impressive! I have to say though that at 6500 RPM, you are at 760 RWHP and 600 RWTQ. If you extrapolate the graph, you probably would be at 700 RWHP and about 500 RWTQ.
Here is an observation: I have read several turbo charging books and can give you some good advice. Maybe you should change the area ratio of the turbos to make more power at the higher RPM's. You will obviously make less down low but will have all you want on the big end! Certainly something to consider.....Good luck!
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Just watched the videos - wow! Thanks for sharing - those were awesome!! The Stryker sounds like a hot V8 from inside the car - very cool! Serious acceleration there too!
Paolo's car sounds great too - nice peel off taking off. Two great cars - I'll be keeping those videos on my computer for a long time.
Anyone who still thinks their Viper sounds like a UPS truck should listen to those videos on a good sound system - that's how your Viper COULD sound!!
Paolo's car sounds great too - nice peel off taking off. Two great cars - I'll be keeping those videos on my computer for a long time.
Anyone who still thinks their Viper sounds like a UPS truck should listen to those videos on a good sound system - that's how your Viper COULD sound!!
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Just watched the videos - wow! Thanks for sharing - those were awesome!! The Stryker sounds like a hot V8 from inside the car - very cool! Serious acceleration there too!
Paolo's car sounds great too - nice peel off taking off. Two great cars - I'll be keeping those videos on my computer for a long time.
Anyone who still thinks their Viper sounds like a UPS truck should listen to those videos on a good sound system - that's how your Viper COULD sound!!
Barry, Thanks, I am glad those SVS guys wer kind enough to post a video of my car, I had no idea it sounded and looked that cool off the line. I am not bragging, but just a proud papa!
Gerald
Enthusiast
hehe cool! always nice to get a different perspective of your own car....
Holy CRAP 850rwhp @ 5000rmps I have to ask you Svs how is the car with 3.55 gears? I have them now and dont know whether or not I should try them out with ~850rwhp or just go back to stock?? I cant see those gears being streetable with that much hp
I have to ask you Svs how is the car with 3.55 gears? I have them now and dont know whether or not I should try them out with ~850rwhp or just go back to stock?? I cant see those gears being streetable with that much hp It's funny Duttweiler and Precision have Pro 5.0 Mustangs running 220+mph in the 1/4 mile. These are Turbo cars maybe some of you guys could learn somthing from these individuals. Detuning is not in their vocabulary! Personally i think it's horse shilt, another mile another story. SHOW ME THE NUMBERS AND NO MORE B.S. ABOUT DETUNING TO MATCH THE COMPETITION.
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Holy CRAP 850rwhp @ 5000rmps
Now I'm smelling a rat. 850rwhp is certainly possible on boost by 5000rpm, but peaking there and then revving to 7000rpm in 5th - is starting to stretch things. Not saying it can't be done... but it would be "unusual" to say the least.
I did not download the dyno graph and now it is down so I can't check it... but if the graph was dropping off after 5000rpm - it was extremely unlikely to rpm to 7000rpm in 5th. You could tell by the shape of the curve - for those that did see it.
In other words - a motor that peaks at 5000rpm is not going to be happy at 7000. There are ways to broaden the rpm band but that would be visible from the curve beyond 5000 i.e. it would be flat at 5000 and holding power.
Who saw it - what happened after 5000 and if not shown, what was the shape leading up to 5000 so you can project beyond it?
If the curve dropped off steeply by 6000rpm, 7000rpm in 5th is either BS or it was a different engine setup than that dyno. I'm not mistaken about that so Jr what is the explanation?
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Holy CRAP 850rwhp @ 5000rmps
Now I'm smelling a rat. 850rwhp is certainly possible on boost by 5000rpm, but peaking there and then revving to 7000rpm in 5th - is starting to stretch things. Not saying it can't be done... but it would be "unusual" to say the least.
I did not download the dyno graph and now it is down so I can't check it... but if the graph was dropping off after 5000rpm - it was extremely unlikely to rpm to 7000rpm in 5th. You could tell by the shape of the curve - for those that did see it.
In other words - a motor that peaks at 5000rpm is not going to be happy at 7000. There are ways to broaden the rpm band but that would be visible from the curve beyond 5000 i.e. it would be flat at 5000 and holding power.
Who saw it - what happened after 5000 and if not shown, what was the shape leading up to 5000 so you can project beyond it?
If the curve dropped off steeply by 6000rpm, 7000rpm in 5th is either BS or it was a different engine setup than that dyno. I'm not mistaken about that so Jr what is the explanation?
NO RATS HERE - just SNIFF AND SCURRY ("Who Moved My Cheese?")
I just went in and analyzed the data from the Motec (this is the first time I have went into the program and analyzed any data by myself, it was quite simple) on each run. My earlier post of 191 degrees was incorrect. Keep in mind that the dyno chart will display the dyno run we did just before we went to the Sandhills(8/1/2003)The motec displays the actual runs and everything that happened on those runs. Feel free to call my friend Charlie at CJ motorsports - 630-499-5591, he said he would be glad to back up these dyno results from his dynojet. Exellent import tuner
195.5mph/6780rpm/94.2C engine temp
199.2mph/6948rpm/95.9C engine temp
200.04mph/6984rpm/94.5C engine temp
Hope this helps you, and if you come to Chicago you can even drive the Stryker or maybe the SRT-10.
Jr.
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Trying to clear up a few things…………..
FIRST. – The detuning issue.
Racing and competition in the arena of land speed is about MANAGING RISK. Any form of competition racing is about managing risk. Even if its NHRA. Lets take Austin Coil. Don’t you think he manages the items that effect the funny car for the conditions that exist? Yes he puts all he can into the racecar to exstrapolate the most out of it that they possibly can. The difference is that we are talking about accelerated speed in a short distance and the competition factor is in the 1000/th of a second. The quarter mile, which has been the benchmark in proving products and power levels has been the mainstay for quite sometime. The standing mile is a completely new animal. We are all basically new to this and venturing into new territory. I think we are all just starting to use this standing mile as a proving grounds. Land speed racing and the SCTA is the oldest sanctioning body in the United States. 50 years or something like that. I believe that the only two sanctioned events for the standing mile are: Maxton – 7 or 8 years I think, and Sandhills – This was the second year.
And now you have DANGEROUS RISK. I’ve been the person you see on the Eisenhower playing what we used to call “The Game” at serious speed in a high performance car. GSXR 1100, wide open, at night and alone when 88 was I-5. Many friends doing the same. Some are dead. That was 14 years ago when I was young and didn’t know any better. Luckily, my guardian angels have kept a watchful eye. Like they say “only go as fast as your guardian angel can fly”. You see these shirts more frequently at land speed events than you do at quarter mile events. I’m positive that my father cares to see me be safe. You must realize that the biggest failure in land speed racing is TIRE FAILURE. Open your hand in front of you with your fingers spread apart. When you look at this just remember that the contact patch of your tire on the ground is only slightly bigger than the area of your open hand. You have four of those separating you from the ground. Take one away at 200+ and you have serious problems. You are not going to coast to a stop. What is the speed rating of the Pilot Sport MXX3?
Sure I was feeling like a cowboy, but I had a safety valve and that was my fathers watchful eye. This is what we call MANAGING DANGEROUS RISK. No ones engines failed, and I’m quite sure everyone will raise the bar. At this moment the competition has to raise the bar just to get to the level of where we are at now, and have been for two years. We accomplished what we set out to do. Apparently we know what we are doing because we won.
The biggest thing I have learned in racing and competition is KNOWING WHEN TOO and KNOWING WHEN NOT TOO. We did not need to, everyone is safe and we still made huge gains. We chose what to come with and planned accordingly. For some of you this may be difficult to understand.
SECOND – The Real Purpose of our post.
I see that people can manipulate numbers and take things out of context to their own interpretation. Notice the dates 8/10/03. I dint even get home and start this thread until 8/12/03. This is what started me on the defensive before I even had a chance to explain our position at this event.
These are all posts on the thread: Vipers own the mile!
2. The SVS Viper with the new 1700 HP motor ran "only" 200 MPH. I say "only" not in a negative way at all, but just to illustrate a point. ==> For that altitude and incline that is what the 246 MPH salt flat land speed record car did in the mile.... This is what makes me happy to run 191.8 MPH running only 9 PSI. It is all relative.
As far as 191.8 MPH being fast, you are correct especially when you consider that the 246 MPH salt flat SVS TT Viper ran only 8.2 MPH faster than my Heffner supercharged Viper on only 9 PSI.
Barry, I would have to think that they ran everything they had. They have been doing some serious testing for a very long time. I am sure they were running way more than 9 PSI.
By the way, what do you think the HP difference would be to go 8.2 MPH faster? I know I could have gone 1-2 MPH faster on the third run had I not been so low on fuel. So let's say 6-7 MPH..... How much faster in the 1/4? The 1/4 to the 1 mile mark? Their car also had the rear fascia sealed which I am sure minimizes the drag to some degree.
Barry, Thanks! I am thinking you are correct about the 950 RWHP. I am happy my car came that close to the $1,000,000.00+ Turbo car! I want to win that event next year! There is plenty of time to test and develop the big power. My car was tuned to run fat, was plenty safe and still ran the big MPH on low boost! It's really a testament to Jason Heffner's cars being insanely fast and being able to get it done!
You have to realize I just taped the hood shut after being teched and ran the car as fast as I could. Those guys pulled up in the big race rig and had the pit crew checking everything and tweaking the motec between runs. I am sure they ran as fast as they could and showed the best they had. With their million plus dollar car and years of development and testing and running standing mile races already, they beat the 28K Heffner supercharged Viper by a measly 8 MPH! We are very encouraged and will be much faster next year!
Torquemonster, those guys have spent at least that over the years on that car with all the R&D. I drove that car a few years ago and knew I had to have that kind of power. I am just glad Jason Heffner is able to make that kind of power for a very reasonable price that has been very, very reliable. I have driven the you know what out of the car after the prescribed top secret Heffner break-in procedure! Bikes every night 100-200!==> I love it!
==>100-150 MPH takes place in less than 6 seconds standing on the gas in 4th gear @ 4,000 RPM! It is faster if I do 3-4, but 5200 RPM in 3rd gear @ 100 MPH to 6000 RPM takes about a second. Also, 80-150 goes by in about 7.5 seconds. For comparison sake, the Venom 800 in the Car & Driver magazine 2,000 HP shootout last year did 100-150 in 7.9 seconds. The LPE Vette did it in 7.6 seconds. I know the Venom 1000 cars are faster, but they are running more boost than me as well.
END OF QUOTES
Often times when you achieve success or become King of the Hill it’s natural for people to want to knock you down, this is to be expected. There’s healthy competition and there’s vindictive motives. (There’s Dudley Do Rights and there’s Snidely Whiplashes)
This post is by Gerald on 6/4/03 in the thread - Re: 890 rwhp/ 840rwtq (LETHAL 750 + Heffner SCi)
Quote: I apologize in advance to some for posting this, just something I have to get off my chest...
Paolo, name calling?
It's useless to argue with you. Somehow you would find a way to argue the sky wasn't blue. It's like arguing with a 9 year old. A person can't win. Anything you don't agree with you go balistic about. I think a few lines on this thread and others were such B.S. Good tuners have a following. What do you expect when certian claims are made and allegations are made if you read between the lines? Their loyals will retort. Especially with a tuner like DLM. He's so reputable and honest and any of his customers would back him up and his hp and his work, etc.
I remember 3 years ago this crap you posted on this board about supercharging and how and what I did was so scrutinzed by you. I wish I would have saved the threads. Now your the biggest supporter of it. Heck, I remember 5 months ago you were in bed with a certain OTHER tuner...
END OF QUOTE
When someone of a certain character discredits the integrity of our company, I felt a certain urge to want to stand up and defend that honor. After being put on the defensive, I apologize to those I offended while being caught up in the mudslinging. This is not what SVS is about or how I want to represent the company. SVS is a family owned business and I’m proud of what we have accomplished. We have been told there are many similarities to the show “AMERICAN CHOPPER”. My Father and I have the same craziness, drama, pressures, frustrations they have. Also like them we push the limits in designing, fabricating and creating. The results……by expecting the best, you’re that much closer to perfection. We want nothing less for our customers.
It’s interesting and I’m curious as to why certain people go on this thread to question, accuse, assume, make charts and configurations of why we did, what we did and how we did it. On top of that why perceive to others on this forum that’s how it was. By putting the facts and videos on our post we had hopes to set the record straight, possibly entertain some speed fans and do the Viper community proud of what we accomplished.
Interpret the data as you see fit. I believe most of you are intelligent enough to decipher fact from fiction…….and on that note………for certain people that doubt us……….. give us YOUR facts. Why do you need to Piggyback on our post to discredit SVS and other tuners?
Aren’t your accolades strong enough on their own and be able to create your own post. I thank you for volunteering your interpretations of numerous data, but let the people do there own interpretations of the straight facts.
Now its time to see all the straight facts from PC and the # 26 Viper. DO tell us your Hp, torque, dyno chart, engine temp, psi, trans and diff gears, tire sizes and anything else you would like to add.
As I said before for some of you it may be difficult to understand how we were able to accomplish what we did. Because of our extensive R + D we have traveled to where no Viper tuners have traveled…….So yes there will be doubt, but feel free to contact me and I will be happy to give you the straight facts.
People WILL believe what they WANT to believe.
Ron Misjak Jr.
SVS
FIRST. – The detuning issue.
Racing and competition in the arena of land speed is about MANAGING RISK. Any form of competition racing is about managing risk. Even if its NHRA. Lets take Austin Coil. Don’t you think he manages the items that effect the funny car for the conditions that exist? Yes he puts all he can into the racecar to exstrapolate the most out of it that they possibly can. The difference is that we are talking about accelerated speed in a short distance and the competition factor is in the 1000/th of a second. The quarter mile, which has been the benchmark in proving products and power levels has been the mainstay for quite sometime. The standing mile is a completely new animal. We are all basically new to this and venturing into new territory. I think we are all just starting to use this standing mile as a proving grounds. Land speed racing and the SCTA is the oldest sanctioning body in the United States. 50 years or something like that. I believe that the only two sanctioned events for the standing mile are: Maxton – 7 or 8 years I think, and Sandhills – This was the second year.
And now you have DANGEROUS RISK. I’ve been the person you see on the Eisenhower playing what we used to call “The Game” at serious speed in a high performance car. GSXR 1100, wide open, at night and alone when 88 was I-5. Many friends doing the same. Some are dead. That was 14 years ago when I was young and didn’t know any better. Luckily, my guardian angels have kept a watchful eye. Like they say “only go as fast as your guardian angel can fly”. You see these shirts more frequently at land speed events than you do at quarter mile events. I’m positive that my father cares to see me be safe. You must realize that the biggest failure in land speed racing is TIRE FAILURE. Open your hand in front of you with your fingers spread apart. When you look at this just remember that the contact patch of your tire on the ground is only slightly bigger than the area of your open hand. You have four of those separating you from the ground. Take one away at 200+ and you have serious problems. You are not going to coast to a stop. What is the speed rating of the Pilot Sport MXX3?
Sure I was feeling like a cowboy, but I had a safety valve and that was my fathers watchful eye. This is what we call MANAGING DANGEROUS RISK. No ones engines failed, and I’m quite sure everyone will raise the bar. At this moment the competition has to raise the bar just to get to the level of where we are at now, and have been for two years. We accomplished what we set out to do. Apparently we know what we are doing because we won.
The biggest thing I have learned in racing and competition is KNOWING WHEN TOO and KNOWING WHEN NOT TOO. We did not need to, everyone is safe and we still made huge gains. We chose what to come with and planned accordingly. For some of you this may be difficult to understand.
SECOND – The Real Purpose of our post.
I see that people can manipulate numbers and take things out of context to their own interpretation. Notice the dates 8/10/03. I dint even get home and start this thread until 8/12/03. This is what started me on the defensive before I even had a chance to explain our position at this event.
These are all posts on the thread: Vipers own the mile!
2. The SVS Viper with the new 1700 HP motor ran "only" 200 MPH. I say "only" not in a negative way at all, but just to illustrate a point. ==> For that altitude and incline that is what the 246 MPH salt flat land speed record car did in the mile.... This is what makes me happy to run 191.8 MPH running only 9 PSI. It is all relative.
As far as 191.8 MPH being fast, you are correct especially when you consider that the 246 MPH salt flat SVS TT Viper ran only 8.2 MPH faster than my Heffner supercharged Viper on only 9 PSI.
Barry, I would have to think that they ran everything they had. They have been doing some serious testing for a very long time. I am sure they were running way more than 9 PSI.
By the way, what do you think the HP difference would be to go 8.2 MPH faster? I know I could have gone 1-2 MPH faster on the third run had I not been so low on fuel. So let's say 6-7 MPH..... How much faster in the 1/4? The 1/4 to the 1 mile mark? Their car also had the rear fascia sealed which I am sure minimizes the drag to some degree.
Barry, Thanks! I am thinking you are correct about the 950 RWHP. I am happy my car came that close to the $1,000,000.00+ Turbo car! I want to win that event next year! There is plenty of time to test and develop the big power. My car was tuned to run fat, was plenty safe and still ran the big MPH on low boost! It's really a testament to Jason Heffner's cars being insanely fast and being able to get it done!
You have to realize I just taped the hood shut after being teched and ran the car as fast as I could. Those guys pulled up in the big race rig and had the pit crew checking everything and tweaking the motec between runs. I am sure they ran as fast as they could and showed the best they had. With their million plus dollar car and years of development and testing and running standing mile races already, they beat the 28K Heffner supercharged Viper by a measly 8 MPH! We are very encouraged and will be much faster next year!
Torquemonster, those guys have spent at least that over the years on that car with all the R&D. I drove that car a few years ago and knew I had to have that kind of power. I am just glad Jason Heffner is able to make that kind of power for a very reasonable price that has been very, very reliable. I have driven the you know what out of the car after the prescribed top secret Heffner break-in procedure! Bikes every night 100-200!==> I love it!
==>100-150 MPH takes place in less than 6 seconds standing on the gas in 4th gear @ 4,000 RPM! It is faster if I do 3-4, but 5200 RPM in 3rd gear @ 100 MPH to 6000 RPM takes about a second. Also, 80-150 goes by in about 7.5 seconds. For comparison sake, the Venom 800 in the Car & Driver magazine 2,000 HP shootout last year did 100-150 in 7.9 seconds. The LPE Vette did it in 7.6 seconds. I know the Venom 1000 cars are faster, but they are running more boost than me as well.
END OF QUOTES
Often times when you achieve success or become King of the Hill it’s natural for people to want to knock you down, this is to be expected. There’s healthy competition and there’s vindictive motives. (There’s Dudley Do Rights and there’s Snidely Whiplashes)
This post is by Gerald on 6/4/03 in the thread - Re: 890 rwhp/ 840rwtq (LETHAL 750 + Heffner SCi)
Quote: I apologize in advance to some for posting this, just something I have to get off my chest...
Paolo, name calling?
It's useless to argue with you. Somehow you would find a way to argue the sky wasn't blue. It's like arguing with a 9 year old. A person can't win. Anything you don't agree with you go balistic about. I think a few lines on this thread and others were such B.S. Good tuners have a following. What do you expect when certian claims are made and allegations are made if you read between the lines? Their loyals will retort. Especially with a tuner like DLM. He's so reputable and honest and any of his customers would back him up and his hp and his work, etc.
I remember 3 years ago this crap you posted on this board about supercharging and how and what I did was so scrutinzed by you. I wish I would have saved the threads. Now your the biggest supporter of it. Heck, I remember 5 months ago you were in bed with a certain OTHER tuner...
END OF QUOTE
When someone of a certain character discredits the integrity of our company, I felt a certain urge to want to stand up and defend that honor. After being put on the defensive, I apologize to those I offended while being caught up in the mudslinging. This is not what SVS is about or how I want to represent the company. SVS is a family owned business and I’m proud of what we have accomplished. We have been told there are many similarities to the show “AMERICAN CHOPPER”. My Father and I have the same craziness, drama, pressures, frustrations they have. Also like them we push the limits in designing, fabricating and creating. The results……by expecting the best, you’re that much closer to perfection. We want nothing less for our customers.
It’s interesting and I’m curious as to why certain people go on this thread to question, accuse, assume, make charts and configurations of why we did, what we did and how we did it. On top of that why perceive to others on this forum that’s how it was. By putting the facts and videos on our post we had hopes to set the record straight, possibly entertain some speed fans and do the Viper community proud of what we accomplished.
Interpret the data as you see fit. I believe most of you are intelligent enough to decipher fact from fiction…….and on that note………for certain people that doubt us……….. give us YOUR facts. Why do you need to Piggyback on our post to discredit SVS and other tuners?
Aren’t your accolades strong enough on their own and be able to create your own post. I thank you for volunteering your interpretations of numerous data, but let the people do there own interpretations of the straight facts.
Now its time to see all the straight facts from PC and the # 26 Viper. DO tell us your Hp, torque, dyno chart, engine temp, psi, trans and diff gears, tire sizes and anything else you would like to add.
As I said before for some of you it may be difficult to understand how we were able to accomplish what we did. Because of our extensive R + D we have traveled to where no Viper tuners have traveled…….So yes there will be doubt, but feel free to contact me and I will be happy to give you the straight facts.
People WILL believe what they WANT to believe.
Ron Misjak Jr.
SVS
You must be registered for see images
Torquemonster
Enthusiast
Thanks for the Offer - that would be awe inspiring I'm sure!
OK re the rpms - so what that means is that while the engine is peaking around 5000rpm, you've broadened the power curve via cam timing and tuning to maintain around 700rwhp or just under by 7000rpm - meaning that although power is dropping - it has not fallen over the cliff by 7,000?
Am I reading that right? If so - that's a bloody good effort. And no wonder the engine sounded like it was missing near the end of the run - or was that just the sound on the video cutting in and out? It sounded like the motor was starting to hit a limiter.
Great effort - you are the only ones to crack 200mph in the mile so far. I'm sure you'll have company there in time and you'll then be keen to tune up to meet that challenge.
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Now its time to see all the straight facts from PC and the # 26 Viper. DO tell us your Hp, torque, dyno chart, engine temp, psi, trans and diff gears, tire sizes and anything else you would like to add.
People WILL believe what they WANT to believe.
Ron Misjak Jr.
SVS
[/QUOTE]
Jr., thank you for your response. It must have taken quite a while for you to post all this information==> You are a dedicated individual.
Here is my hallmark response: It is a medical fact that humans use only a small percentage of their brains, however with all your postings it is evident you are using only a small fraction of what is available to you... Your stress over a $28,000.00 Heffner supercharged Viper just sadly seeps through your postings... I am sorry for your stressful emotional unwellbeing..... Time is a great healer.... Having me in your constant daily thoughts, is a compliment to me, but quite unhealthy for you......
Unfortunately some of the information in your post has no business in this post and is unrelated to the body of this post...
This post is by Gerald on 6/4/03 in the thread - Re: 890 rwhp/ 840rwtq (LETHAL 750 + Heffner SCi)
Quote: I apologize in advance to some for posting this, just something I have to get off my chest...
.....I remember 3 years ago this crap you posted on this board about supercharging and how and what I did was so scrutinzed by you....
END OF QUOTE
==>Jr., ....3 years ago....==> This when I was the biggest SVS supporter ever to grace the presence of this board. Why do you have such an axe to grind with me after all the business I generated for SVS back then? When I defended the honor of SVS(fighting it out with Gerald and all the DLM guys back then)on a daily basis? Do you remember that????????????
This quoting of Gerald from 6/4 when the DLM guys and the Heffner guys arguing about dyno #'s has no place in this standing mile post whatsoever!
==>What is your motive in bringing an unrelated post to this discussion? Why do you want to try to hurt me? What is the matter with you?
Jr., I could easily post some quotes from the Jason Tarnautzer twin turbo thread
where you made a fool of yourself for all to see... You know exactly what I am talking about......Then there's the $3,000.00 supercharger kit that never came to fruition????? But that has no business here by a longshot.
As far as the posts on this thread and the "Vipers own the Mile" thread are concerned, I did nothing but congratulate and praise you and SVS for having the fastest and best car.
You said, "Often times when you achieve success or become King of the Hill it's natural for people to want to knock you down, this is to be expected. There's healthy competition and there's vindictive motives. (There's Dudley Do Rights and there's Snidely Whiplashes)"
You guys are the king of the hill in the mile. Period. What is wrong with comparing my car's performance to that of the SVS turbo car?
Here is a quote of mine you neglected to include: "Everybody here including myself has said the SVS turbo car is the ultimate measuring stick by which all other boosted cars are measured" "There is no question who has the most powerful forced induction fed Viper. It is definitely SVS and has been all along."
==> Is it so wrong to want to go fast like you guys?
==> Is it so wrong to want to make a comparison based on the facts that I know?
==>You are way out of line here to treat me like this. Why not attack every single person who has given you a hard time about the whole "Detuning issue"? I hope you defend your honor and go after everyone who did so on an individual basis with the obsessive single mindedness you have shown me!
Nobody here is trying to knock you down. You are doing a pretty good job of doing that to yourself!
You speak of healthy competition and vindictive motives: There's nothing healthy about this post for either of us except maybe for my lawyer...
Jr. you said, "Now its time to see all the straight facts from PC and the # 26 Viper. DO tell us your Hp, torque, dyno chart, engine temp, psi, trans and diff gears, tire sizes and anything else you would like to add."
Jr. do you not remember saying you had researched all the potential dyno #'s/etc for all your competitors???????????? What are your figures from your research? Maybe if you apologize to me for the negative things you have inferred about me and my car and congratulate me for my accomplishments as I have done for you, I just might be able to answer the questions that burn within your psyche........
Again, congratulations are in order. Congratulations to you and your car for 1st place in the standing mile in Nebraska.
People WILL believe what they WANT to believe.
Ron Misjak Jr.
SVS
You must be registered for see images
[/QUOTE]
Jr., thank you for your response. It must have taken quite a while for you to post all this information==> You are a dedicated individual.
Here is my hallmark response: It is a medical fact that humans use only a small percentage of their brains, however with all your postings it is evident you are using only a small fraction of what is available to you... Your stress over a $28,000.00 Heffner supercharged Viper just sadly seeps through your postings... I am sorry for your stressful emotional unwellbeing..... Time is a great healer.... Having me in your constant daily thoughts, is a compliment to me, but quite unhealthy for you......
Unfortunately some of the information in your post has no business in this post and is unrelated to the body of this post...
This post is by Gerald on 6/4/03 in the thread - Re: 890 rwhp/ 840rwtq (LETHAL 750 + Heffner SCi)
Quote: I apologize in advance to some for posting this, just something I have to get off my chest...
.....I remember 3 years ago this crap you posted on this board about supercharging and how and what I did was so scrutinzed by you....
END OF QUOTE
==>Jr., ....3 years ago....==> This when I was the biggest SVS supporter ever to grace the presence of this board. Why do you have such an axe to grind with me after all the business I generated for SVS back then? When I defended the honor of SVS(fighting it out with Gerald and all the DLM guys back then)on a daily basis? Do you remember that????????????
This quoting of Gerald from 6/4 when the DLM guys and the Heffner guys arguing about dyno #'s has no place in this standing mile post whatsoever!
==>What is your motive in bringing an unrelated post to this discussion? Why do you want to try to hurt me? What is the matter with you?
Jr., I could easily post some quotes from the Jason Tarnautzer twin turbo thread
where you made a fool of yourself for all to see... You know exactly what I am talking about......Then there's the $3,000.00 supercharger kit that never came to fruition????? But that has no business here by a longshot.
As far as the posts on this thread and the "Vipers own the Mile" thread are concerned, I did nothing but congratulate and praise you and SVS for having the fastest and best car.
You said, "Often times when you achieve success or become King of the Hill it's natural for people to want to knock you down, this is to be expected. There's healthy competition and there's vindictive motives. (There's Dudley Do Rights and there's Snidely Whiplashes)"
You guys are the king of the hill in the mile. Period. What is wrong with comparing my car's performance to that of the SVS turbo car?
Here is a quote of mine you neglected to include: "Everybody here including myself has said the SVS turbo car is the ultimate measuring stick by which all other boosted cars are measured" "There is no question who has the most powerful forced induction fed Viper. It is definitely SVS and has been all along."
==> Is it so wrong to want to go fast like you guys?
==> Is it so wrong to want to make a comparison based on the facts that I know?
==>You are way out of line here to treat me like this. Why not attack every single person who has given you a hard time about the whole "Detuning issue"? I hope you defend your honor and go after everyone who did so on an individual basis with the obsessive single mindedness you have shown me!
Nobody here is trying to knock you down. You are doing a pretty good job of doing that to yourself!
You speak of healthy competition and vindictive motives: There's nothing healthy about this post for either of us except maybe for my lawyer...
Jr. you said, "Now its time to see all the straight facts from PC and the # 26 Viper. DO tell us your Hp, torque, dyno chart, engine temp, psi, trans and diff gears, tire sizes and anything else you would like to add."
Jr. do you not remember saying you had researched all the potential dyno #'s/etc for all your competitors???????????? What are your figures from your research? Maybe if you apologize to me for the negative things you have inferred about me and my car and congratulate me for my accomplishments as I have done for you, I just might be able to answer the questions that burn within your psyche........
Again, congratulations are in order. Congratulations to you and your car for 1st place in the standing mile in Nebraska.
Paolo Castellano
Enthusiast
Jr, It's all yours from here on out! I'm outta here! See you in North Carolina!I'll add my two cents -- Never heard of anyone detuning their car in an effort to marginally defeat their opponents. Every racer goes as fast as possible.. Imagine Michael Schumacher detuning his ferrari just to stay ahead of the pack.. BS..
Juanmotime
Enthusiast
Packet - Call it what you will. I call it a nose for ********. If you claimed all your girls on the bikini team had ****** reductions so they didn't look too good or they were all natural, I'd call you on it too. Don't forget to give props to the Docs that make that all possible. If you took the credit for them looking that good and didn't give credit where credit was due you'd be looked at as a stroke too.
I've been tuning Turbos since 1988, before the Viper hit the streets, and when Sr. was still making the money to buy his first one. I've also had the pleasure of working with a number of the SVS suppliers, the ones who have helped make this power, and safety possible. I'm also the guy who turned Larry Prebis at Soundperformance onto HKS when he was only selling Stereo equipment in 1990. I know many of the power gods here in the Chicagoland area and in standard racing circles you need to give props to the people that REALLY make it happen. It's part of the game.
I've "developed" a number of fast cars over the past 15 years, with the help of suppliers but I don't claim their work to be my own. I know how to separate being an enthusiast, and being a tuner. I am not a tuner, I am not a tuner, I am not a tuner.
The funny part here is that who'd defending who. The Roe customers support the Roe products. The DLM customers supports the DLM products. The Heffner guys support the Heffner products. The Apex guys... The West Coast Viper guys... The Apex guys... For the ones that got their cars back in running order even a few Hennessy guys.
The funny part is that we haven't seen the SVS customers come forward to support their vendor. Happy customers WILL stand behind their suppliers, like good suppliers should stand behind their customers. Where are the customer cars making the big HP numbers, where are their times in the 1/4 where are the MPH for the mile? Well the other SVS car didn't make it 1 mile, so there goes that idea. So we'll have to wait till Maxton for another attempt. Will some new SRT-10 TT's from SVS be there as well? I just hope they're not "detuned" to be gentle on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars.
The mention of Duttweiller brought back some good old memories of when Ken would sell off one of his badass motor/turbo setups to a customer/competitor so he could further his evolution in the Buick V-6. Only to come back and spank his old setups ass with a newer better one, thereby forcing his customer to come back for upgrades.
A true tuner attitude, with non of this detuning crap. Maybe that's why he makes such tremendous power with such little (by Viper standards) motors.
Anyone thought of dropping a car off there to see what $50,000 could get you?
I've been tuning Turbos since 1988, before the Viper hit the streets, and when Sr. was still making the money to buy his first one. I've also had the pleasure of working with a number of the SVS suppliers, the ones who have helped make this power, and safety possible. I'm also the guy who turned Larry Prebis at Soundperformance onto HKS when he was only selling Stereo equipment in 1990. I know many of the power gods here in the Chicagoland area and in standard racing circles you need to give props to the people that REALLY make it happen. It's part of the game.
I've "developed" a number of fast cars over the past 15 years, with the help of suppliers but I don't claim their work to be my own. I know how to separate being an enthusiast, and being a tuner. I am not a tuner, I am not a tuner, I am not a tuner.
The funny part here is that who'd defending who. The Roe customers support the Roe products. The DLM customers supports the DLM products. The Heffner guys support the Heffner products. The Apex guys... The West Coast Viper guys... The Apex guys... For the ones that got their cars back in running order even a few Hennessy guys.
The funny part is that we haven't seen the SVS customers come forward to support their vendor. Happy customers WILL stand behind their suppliers, like good suppliers should stand behind their customers. Where are the customer cars making the big HP numbers, where are their times in the 1/4 where are the MPH for the mile? Well the other SVS car didn't make it 1 mile, so there goes that idea. So we'll have to wait till Maxton for another attempt. Will some new SRT-10 TT's from SVS be there as well? I just hope they're not "detuned" to be gentle on the Gen 1 and Gen 2 cars.
The mention of Duttweiller brought back some good old memories of when Ken would sell off one of his badass motor/turbo setups to a customer/competitor so he could further his evolution in the Buick V-6. Only to come back and spank his old setups ass with a newer better one, thereby forcing his customer to come back for upgrades.
A true tuner attitude, with non of this detuning crap. Maybe that's why he makes such tremendous power with such little (by Viper standards) motors.
Anyone thought of dropping a car off there to see what $50,000 could get you?
HOLD TYPE, what would make you come to that conclusion? Could it be the smoke they are trying to blow up our butts or maybe they think we are all idiots and will swallow all the crap they are shovelling.Next time you race someone just tell him or her i just want to beat you a little. My BUDDY FOOOFAST is willing to give free horsepower by detuning to anyone.
Russ M
Enthusiast
Sorry but you are way wrong on this one.
Any racer or race team is going to hold back if they have a superior edge on the competition. It is much easier to keep up when their new product comes out. And as most race teams very well know, if you are too fast the rules tend to change and make you slower.
It makes perfect sense to me why they would detune their car to make less power and still win. Next time someone shows up with a car that can beat their record all they need to do is turn up the boost instead of re-inventing the wheel.
Good job SVS, bottom line is you guys beat EVERYONE. And if I am correct you will continue to do so until someone makes a car that will make more than 1700hp(or whatever at 25psi).
Viperzilla
Enthusiast
I don't think this mile race had any rules like that.
If you just wanted to win or whatnot which you "knew" you were already going to do, why not just put on another "show" and nearly bust the balls on the Stryker. The Vette owners' eyes would have dropped out of socket, and it's what the Viper owners/enthusiasts wanted to see also.
Sorry but you are way wrong on this one.
[/QUOTE]
He's going off personal experience (I can't say how much or little that is), and I'm not so sure you or anyone else can call BS on that. I've never heard of anyone reducing their chances or performance to stay competitive, but I'm not saying that to support HOLD. I think his Schumacher analogy was a pretty good one to use in this case, though.
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Thanks Russ........I love to see someone understand.
I look at it a little like:
Person 1: Blows their load
Person 2: Teases it, Rubs it, Brings it to the point of.....and holds back, Teases some more.......and plays with it as long as they like.
Kama Sutra
I look at it a little like:
Person 1: Blows their load
Person 2: Teases it, Rubs it, Brings it to the point of.....and holds back, Teases some more.......and plays with it as long as they like.
Kama Sutra
Viperzilla
Enthusiast
Well, you blew your Viper with your turbo system, we wanna see it "blow its load" on the mile/competitions.
Russ M wake up Ferrari walked away with just about everything last year now BMW is kicking their butt, do you think they detune. SVS won that's a fact but don't come with B.S. BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T RUN 220+MPH. Duttweiler had a problem at Englishtown some years back and still stayed in it for the fans and because he is a competor. Win or lose he says nothing bad about anyone just that EVERY DOG HAS HIS DAY. He is a true down to earth person with no excuses period. Paolo is a single competor with no shop or R&D that SVS has, he is out there running bikes at night while SVS race car is one dimensional strictly race. Paolo should not have been that close DETUNE is another word for excuses.
SnakeBitten
Enthusiast
- Joined
- May 18, 2001
- Posts
- 2,550
- Reaction score
- 0
Im with Ron on this one....If you think about it Paolo really looks even better...David vs Goliath in terms of money and knowledge put into their cars...I would hate to know that all my years of experience and r&d allowed me to just beat a comparative rookie by 8mph....It just doesnt make good business sense much less common sense....Imagine the business that you would have stirred up if you had done 220-230 in the mile???Now everybody is gonna be like: Hmmm Paolo paid 28k at only 9psi was right there with the mega dollar SVS car....Even if I were a millionare who do you think I would choose....Paolo has said his car will have 15psi before too long...So its well built for way less..What does going SVS get the potential custome???You had a chance to show everyone and if what you say is true it wasnt a sound business decision imho....
I think the only problem people are having with you is the hard to believe "we detuned to be at competition level" line to just beat the competition...What did doing that gain you....Not as much business as could have potentially have...You guys are the champions no doubt and I respect the hell out of your effort but you need to hire a pr to spin your words because that "detuned" word killed your credibility....
Do you understand what running 220-230 would have done for you???Would have been right up there with the 246mph record....It would take everyone else awhile to even approach that....
I think the only problem people are having with you is the hard to believe "we detuned to be at competition level" line to just beat the competition...What did doing that gain you....Not as much business as could have potentially have...You guys are the champions no doubt and I respect the hell out of your effort but you need to hire a pr to spin your words because that "detuned" word killed your credibility....
Do you understand what running 220-230 would have done for you???Would have been right up there with the 246mph record....It would take everyone else awhile to even approach that....
Russ M
Enthusiast
Ron,
It is you who needs to wake up, last time I checked Ferrari was still in the lead by a good margin. Besides you are talking big budget vs. small budget racing, two totaly different things.
SVS Turbo
Enthusiast
Do you know this to be fact? If so then why not place the facts on the board like SVS did? It seems to me like it has been kept from everyone, and you are going from someones word......and not the facts. If Gary A made 845rwhp @ 12psi then what was the HP level @ 9psi. C-mon if you guys were at way less HP....Then I would be pretty damn proud of saying that.....if you can back it up. That would be the statement that evens everything out. Keeping the information from everyone is what seems a little strange to me. I start to think that you had more psi and more HP.
If SVS is the measuring stick.......then why is it that your not letting everybody know all the facts?
I'm working on figuring out the cfm that the turbo's make at 7.67 psi.
We are still going to put more pertinent info for all to see!
Thanx Paolo, I dont think my car will be ready for the sept 27th event but will most deft be ready for the oct 25-26th eventwhen is this race in North Carolina taking place??? I want some
I'd love for you to be there as friendly competition I promiss to shake your hands after I whip your butt lol 1TONY1
Enthusiast
Thanx Paolo, I dont think my car will be ready for the sept 27th event but will most deft be ready for the oct 25-26th eventwhen is this race in North Carolina taking place??? I want some
Is it a secret ? I still didn't see the info. Web site ??????
Sorry Tony Paolo sent me an email, Hope to see you there in the Oct event
Hey Tony click here for schedule of events
Hey Tony click here for schedule of events
