Long and Short Term Trims are standard SAE PID's and can of course be logged.
Trust me, I use this software myself, it does exactly what you need it to do...
SCT - Hands On
- Thread starter Jack B
- Start date
Long and Short Term Trims are standard SAE PID's and can of course be logged.
Trust me, I use this software myself, it does exactly what you need it to do...
So far as I know, yes, it is still on the table for completion one of these days...
alright can someone clear this up for me?
the vec3 is an addon computer that connects to the factory pcm
the AEM completely removes the PCM
the SCT tuner recalibrates the factory PCM
right?
what exactly are you able to tune with the SCT? Can you get in and play with timing, air/fuel ratio's, etc?
also what is this extra tuning software that people are buying? Whats that for?
I am just curious whether the SCT can do everything you need to get a high performance viper tuned properly.
the vec3 is an addon computer that connects to the factory pcm
the AEM completely removes the PCM
the SCT tuner recalibrates the factory PCM
right?
what exactly are you able to tune with the SCT? Can you get in and play with timing, air/fuel ratio's, etc?
also what is this extra tuning software that people are buying? Whats that for?
I am just curious whether the SCT can do everything you need to get a high performance viper tuned properly.
Calibrations can be really hard to get right without good training and experience. Testing and verifying your results under controlled conditions will lead you in the right direction.
FATHERFORD
Enthusiast
So is the phasing out of VEC and just SCT the way to do it now?
I have a vec 3 I haven't installed yet. I was planning on doing the VEC 3/SCT combo and have ART tune it.
I have a vec 3 I haven't installed yet. I was planning on doing the VEC 3/SCT combo and have ART tune it.
Slowsupratt
Viper Owner
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If i plan on running Nitrous along with some bolt ons then Vec would be a better alternative correct?
-FROG-
Enthusiast
This is true. However, the tuner who is tuning your car can do all that is needed for trims, a/f, etc... with his Tuner/Vendor software. As a customer you do not get all that fancy software with the SCT. I think you can buy it, but it's expensive.
-Yes, thats right.
-Yes, you can play with timing and AFR so long as you have Pro-Racer or Dealer software.
-The extra tuning software is either pro-racer so you can tune, or logging software so you can record conditions to tune from... ot sure what you are talking about.
-Yes, it can.
SCT is by far the better way to do it now. However, you can still use one in combination with a VEC if you have a boosted application, and want to retain your tuning resolution.
Depends on the exact setup, but they could both handle this. They each have slight advantages and disadvantages.
We sell a package for 995.00... includes the SCT tool, Pro-Racer tuning software AND a logging software/cable setup.
whitebluevipe
Enthusiast
keep the posts coming. this is the most interest i have had in a thread in a long time.
Trailertrash
Viper Owner
Dan,
I have the SCT 9550 and willorder the PCMSCAN software. What do I use for the wide band input? And can I pick up that input through the OBD2 port? Can the wide band be wired in that way?
I have the SCT 9550 and willorder the PCMSCAN software. What do I use for the wide band input? And can I pick up that input through the OBD2 port? Can the wide band be wired in that way?
Hello,
Any external Wideband will work, though I personally recommend the Innovate LM1 or LC1. Generally we use either a VEC analog input, a Dyno software input, or just use the LM1/LC1 log for Wideband logging.
However, I recently sat down and wrote tables for the PCMSCAN software allowing inputs and table creation of wideband information, directly in the PCMSCAN software, combining SAE PID's from the OBD-2 port, as well as the AUX Wideband input. In effect, taking information from two separate devices and logging them together in one table.
This allows the complete writing of Base Maps if closed loop and Power Enrichment is turned off, as well as part throttle and WOT fuel maps if Power Enrichment is turned on.
To answer your second question, no, Wideband is not available directly at the OBD2 port, and it cannot be wired that way.
These setup tables, among others for the PCMSCAN software, are available to our SCT customers.
Trailertrash
Viper Owner
Dan,
Thank you. LM-1 will be the way I go. Seems easy enough to use that to hold the info then download it all into the computer where the PCMSCAN software can table the data.
Thanks again your knowledge is greatly appreciated!!!
Thank you. LM-1 will be the way I go. Seems easy enough to use that to hold the info then download it all into the computer where the PCMSCAN software can table the data.
Thanks again your knowledge is greatly appreciated!!!
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Dan,
Getting ready to take you up on the $995 offer. Have you developed any baseline SCT tunes for a 10 lb ROE set-up with the stock MAP, 42 lb injectors, BAP, etcetera???? I've tuned the VEC to the point of running perfectly and have that system mastered from a DIY perspective...so I have to ask myself why change everything!! But you know this stuff is like a drug addiction for some of us. Ready to move on to the next level of complicated Viper ownership...uhgggg. But don't want to unknowlingly get in over my head too much or too quickly.
Getting ready to take you up on the $995 offer. Have you developed any baseline SCT tunes for a 10 lb ROE set-up with the stock MAP, 42 lb injectors, BAP, etcetera???? I've tuned the VEC to the point of running perfectly and have that system mastered from a DIY perspective...so I have to ask myself why change everything!! But you know this stuff is like a drug addiction for some of us. Ready to move on to the next level of complicated Viper ownership...uhgggg. But don't want to unknowlingly get in over my head too much or too quickly.
Hi Tony,
The PCMScan software is 209.95 and available here:
PPE Online Store
Pro-Racer Software is 449.00:
https://www.viperspecialtyperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=104
PS- I have your e-mail in front of me... have had my laptop sitting in a car for the last few days...
Sorry, it's a bit long.
I'm going to get the PCMSCAN software this week and log first. I'm down for the moment, my water pump went over the weekend but I hope to resume my quest with you next week.
While I dont have any base maps for that setup, I can surely write you something basic to start with, and then you can modify for your car based on that. Honestly, the ROE cars really should be tuned individually anyway- they have a great deal of variation car to car. You may opt to keep the VEC in the car regardless to control things like W/M, logging, or to handle your boost window if you dont want to take on the task of converting to a 2-bar MAP. [which is pretty involved]
Sorry, it's a bit long.
Do you have any type of Wideband? If not, you may want to grab a used LM1 or LC1 [usually on Ebay] so you can really take a good look at whats going on, and start learning the system. Basically, using the SAE PID's in the PCM will give you a good idea if your Base Maps need work based on how wacky your trims are, and the wideband will allow you to log your true WOT AFR on the street [which is always different than a Dyno] as well as have the ability to make open/closed loop changes correctly once you get Pro-Racer.
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Well, I was thinking of selling the VEC and going 100% SCT..but now you've got me rethinking that idea. I love the thrill of figuring out stuff, but don't want to be too much of a guinea pig on a boosted SCT application. The car is running so well right now that I hate to mess it up needlessly so to speak. Plus activating the associated relays, etcetera is another matter. I'll have to think about it a bit more.
Don't get me wrong, it has been done. You can always eliminate the VEC and get a controller specifically for the WM system from a company like AquaMist or something along those lines. Or, you can just let the VEC do one or two things, and just Zero out the rest of it. The VEC is fine when it comes to removing timing and adding fuel, it just cant do anything in closed loop, and it is not great at scaling. I personally run the SCT/VEC combo in my car to keep resolution as high as possible. If I am not in boost, the VEC doesnt do anything at all. They both have their uses.
Just to reinforce what Dan is recommending. I removed the fuel enrichment from the VEC and started tuning with the SCT package. I did about six street pulls in second gear. Each time I would log the a/f with the Innovate LC1/Dl32, then make an adjustment. I went to the track two weeks ago and the a/f was rock solid and right where it should have been.
I do not know why, but, the car when running NA has picked up a minimum 2/10's and probably closer to 4/10's of a second. It ran an 11.2 with a poor 60, previously, it was a consistent 11.5.
Assuming no other changes, I would probably point towards the delay in updating power enrichment fuel changes, and specifically the tip in fuel falling on its face [since it is a time-expiring enrichment, it likely wont even be completely replicated by the VEC] There is also going to be a small delay every time the PCM changes something, and then the VEC has to alter it again.
PS- did you ever get everything worked out with Palmer? Now that I built those Wideband Tables.... that software is even more useful. I dont believe the EASE is able to pull from two devices at once...
Dan:
I really appreciate the aid, that is my next step. I didn't want to get into the scaling so close to a race. I am going to the scaling project after labotr day, I will let you know how it works.
jrod_okc
Viper Owner
Bump For a Great thead, and great info on SCT
EllowViper
Enthusiast
Yup.. the collective knowledge base is growing regarding the SCT which is good to see. Funny reading some of my older posts on this subject since I'm still without a SCT solution for my set-up. Too busy to tinker.
GTSnake
Enthusiast
Looks like I'm going to have to go to the SCT route again. I wanted to replace my boost controller & VEC with the AEM but looks like AEM prices are going through the roof.
Now instead of one unit I'm going to have to have SCT, Boost controller and VEC. It just seems like a lot of add-ons just to get it running right.
Now instead of one unit I'm going to have to have SCT, Boost controller and VEC. It just seems like a lot of add-ons just to get it running right.
AndyMac
Enthusiast
Are you making 13xx whp with a VEC? That's friggin impressive!
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