Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
Sean,
When you get a chance give me a call here at the Dealership.
Maybe I can help you?
When you get a chance give me a call here at the Dealership.
Maybe I can help you?
SIDE SILL CORROSION - HELP !
- Thread starter Viper Wizard
- Start date
Ron
Enthusiast
<FONT face="Comic Sans MS">Could someone either post / e-mail me a picture of the corrosion location or be a bit more specific as to where the corrosion occurs?
I have a 1996 GTS and have never found any corrosion anywhere on the side sills. Either I'm lucky, don't get the car wet enough or don't know where to look.
Thanks</FONT f>
I have a 1996 GTS and have never found any corrosion anywhere on the side sills. Either I'm lucky, don't get the car wet enough or don't know where to look.
Thanks</FONT f>
The earliest TSBs (ie 94-5) indicated "replace"
The replacement history took a HUGE hit (due to the earlier VCA board and in large part my advice ). The later 1997 TSBs indicate "Repair"
There are two small rivets on the forward-top section of the sill, visible when the hood is open.
The inside and outside of these rivets get impregnated w/ road film, dissolved salts from washing, and microscopic silicone dust. Then, they get HOT-HOT and Cool. Anytime moisture is added, even from cooling, an electrolysis begins...a minute electrical "bi-metal corrosion" around these rivets. It spreads like a cancer. The first symptom is usually paint bubbles around these rivets. Corrosion can also be found in the lower attachment screw holes, for the exact same reasons.
When painting w/ VHT-1500, you could PRIME thim with a dab of zinc-based paint to prevent / stop further corrosion.
The replacement history took a HUGE hit (due to the earlier VCA board and in large part my advice ). The later 1997 TSBs indicate "Repair"
There are two small rivets on the forward-top section of the sill, visible when the hood is open.
The inside and outside of these rivets get impregnated w/ road film, dissolved salts from washing, and microscopic silicone dust. Then, they get HOT-HOT and Cool. Anytime moisture is added, even from cooling, an electrolysis begins...a minute electrical "bi-metal corrosion" around these rivets. It spreads like a cancer. The first symptom is usually paint bubbles around these rivets. Corrosion can also be found in the lower attachment screw holes, for the exact same reasons.
When painting w/ VHT-1500, you could PRIME thim with a dab of zinc-based paint to prevent / stop further corrosion.
Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
Originally posted by JonB - PartsRack:
The earliest TSBs (ie 94-5) indicated "replace"
The replacement history took a HUGE hit (due to the earlier VCA board and in large part my advice ). The later 1997 TSBs indicate "Repair"
THE ONLY TSB IS #23-59-97 EFFECTIVE DATE: NOV.28,1997!!
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
:Corrosion can be found in the following areas on the models listed:
-On and around the rocker panel attachment screws:92-96 Roadsters.
-On and around the rocker panel insulation rivets:92-96 Roadsters and Coupes.[there are 11 RIVETS!]
-On the exterior surface of the rocker panel, which may be misidentified as paint bubbling: both models and all years.
-Paint discoloration on the top surface of the rocker panel near the front of the door: primarily affects White 96 Roadsters.
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves the replacament of the rocker panel attaching screws, or the rocker panel, to correct a corrosion condition.
NO REPAIR!
"BE SURE YOUR BRAIN IS IN GEAR BEFORE PUTTING MOUTH INTO MOTION"
[Above quote is for anybody it fits!]
Chuck, I resent, and do not deserve your "brain in gear" trash talk. Once again, a (self-proclaimed) wizard attacks my valid advice. Why? Be a pro.
Is not "replacement of the rocker panel attaching screws" a repair, even on the current TSB? It is certainly NOT a replacement of the sill.
True, TODAY there is only one active TSB. Active. (As in current.) But TSBs come and go, Chuck..... Unfortunately I am cursed with a steel-trap memory on Viper stuff {Brenda sez 'steel trap'--nuthin gets in!) And some archived ones as well!
Sean said "I know about the TSB" (but thanks for posting parts of it anyway..) Sean also said "Anyone had this done....What type of repairs are being performed." So I replied, with factual answers to Sean. (If Sean's question confused you, please re-read it for clarity.) Ron-96 asked 'where to look'...I told him, in detail.
As I mentioned, in the old days (in which chuck was a tech?) the procedure was then different. Proof: NUMEROUS Gen-1 sills were replaced under then-current TSBs, including my 93's, long before Gen-II cars and the 1997 cited TSB even came out. I helped NUMEROUS folks get them as well. Later, they were only repaired/repainted as now! Frequently. My advice stands.
P.S.Chuck, I thought you agreed to lighten up? Please delete your latest name-calling post, and I will delete this post as well. Thanks.
P.P.S. You owe "Dornboecher's Children's Hospital" $25 for losing our charitable bet on the release dates of 2002 Vipers. In stores now, as I correctly predicted. Thanks.
Is not "replacement of the rocker panel attaching screws" a repair, even on the current TSB? It is certainly NOT a replacement of the sill.
True, TODAY there is only one active TSB. Active. (As in current.) But TSBs come and go, Chuck..... Unfortunately I am cursed with a steel-trap memory on Viper stuff {Brenda sez 'steel trap'--nuthin gets in!) And some archived ones as well!
Sean said "I know about the TSB" (but thanks for posting parts of it anyway..) Sean also said "Anyone had this done....What type of repairs are being performed." So I replied, with factual answers to Sean. (If Sean's question confused you, please re-read it for clarity.) Ron-96 asked 'where to look'...I told him, in detail.
As I mentioned, in the old days (in which chuck was a tech?) the procedure was then different. Proof: NUMEROUS Gen-1 sills were replaced under then-current TSBs, including my 93's, long before Gen-II cars and the 1997 cited TSB even came out. I helped NUMEROUS folks get them as well. Later, they were only repaired/repainted as now! Frequently. My advice stands.
P.S.Chuck, I thought you agreed to lighten up? Please delete your latest name-calling post, and I will delete this post as well. Thanks.
P.P.S. You owe "Dornboecher's Children's Hospital" $25 for losing our charitable bet on the release dates of 2002 Vipers. In stores now, as I correctly predicted. Thanks.
Robert1994
Enthusiast
I think changing the attaching screws after the corrosion has
started, is like quitting smoking after you have developed lung cancer........too little......too late.
The "fix" to existing damaged panels would be to remove the
damaged area, and replace it with healthy "tissue".
I'm sure that anyone would agree that replacement of the panels
would be more practical (ie cheaper).
JonB was kind enough to fax me a copy of the original TSB,
which Chuck has quoted above.
The "fix" is what Chrysler has done. Eliminate the holes and
rivets that attach the insulation to the sill covers and attach
it with a good bonding agent instead.
Where did I learn this ?
Mr. Chuck Tator !
Chrysler has initiated this improvement into their replacement
and current production sill covers.
Get on your dealer, and point out that they have identified and
eliminated the problem, and they owe it to their loyal customers
to follow suit and pass the "cure" down.
started, is like quitting smoking after you have developed lung cancer........too little......too late.
The "fix" to existing damaged panels would be to remove the
damaged area, and replace it with healthy "tissue".
I'm sure that anyone would agree that replacement of the panels
would be more practical (ie cheaper).
JonB was kind enough to fax me a copy of the original TSB,
which Chuck has quoted above.
The "fix" is what Chrysler has done. Eliminate the holes and
rivets that attach the insulation to the sill covers and attach
it with a good bonding agent instead.
Where did I learn this ?
Mr. Chuck Tator !
Chrysler has initiated this improvement into their replacement
and current production sill covers.
Get on your dealer, and point out that they have identified and
eliminated the problem, and they owe it to their loyal customers
to follow suit and pass the "cure" down.
Tomer
Enthusiast
I must be having brain fade today, cuz I am having trouble applying all this GREAT info to my case. I have a white 96 RT/10, and the
screws on top of the side sills/rocker panels are corroded, and I actually ordered new ones thanks to Luc giving me the part number, $1.6 each...
I don't see any discoloring of the paint at this time, but since I have at least some corrosion, what should I ask the dealer for, if anything? I am currently covered under an extended 7/70 warranty.
thanks
Tomer
screws on top of the side sills/rocker panels are corroded, and I actually ordered new ones thanks to Luc giving me the part number, $1.6 each...
I don't see any discoloring of the paint at this time, but since I have at least some corrosion, what should I ask the dealer for, if anything? I am currently covered under an extended 7/70 warranty.
thanks
Tomer
malcoll
Enthusiast
What is the status of side sill corrosion? I have a 1996 RT with this problem... I was advised by a VCA officer that DC will do nothing if I am not the original owner???
I am at a loss as to how the number of owners figures into side sill corrosion.
I would appreciate any thoughts from other board "surfers" about handling this situation.
Thankyou,
Lance
I am at a loss as to how the number of owners figures into side sill corrosion.
I would appreciate any thoughts from other board "surfers" about handling this situation.
Thankyou,
Lance
malcoll
Enthusiast
Come on... someone must have some information for me??? Please? Pretty Please.....with sugar on top???
Viper Wizard
Enthusiast
Give me a call and maybe I can give you some advise on how to handle this.
I have a 95 with only 2K miles and it's never been wet so I don't have the problem but I wasn't going to wait. Also, I don't want anyone yelling at me for not driving my Viper. I just got it late last year with 800 miles on it and I got it up to 2K before winter.
The sills have two issues. 1)rivits 2) attaching screws
Rivits - Many posts talked about bi-metal corrosion but that's not true. The rivits are made from aluminum just like your sills. The problem is the heat from the exhaust. The rivits extend almost an inch inside the sill. This is the closest part to the exhaust. When it heats up, they heat up first. Since insulation is between the exhaust and sill, the sill heats up at a much different rate. The rivit is hot, the sill is cold, the rivit is in the sill hole = damage around the sill hole. Water, salt and other "stuff" gets in and around the hole and causes corrosion over time. Paint eventually bubbles and rivits fall out. Solution is to remove rivits, patch and repaint, and glue insulation to inside of sill like they do in new Vipers. Alternative solution is to obviously replace sills if cost effective.
Attaching screws - The original screws were black. I have no idea what they are made of but they are a joke. New screws are silver and are coated. I personally bought some type of primer from a good paint shop and sprayed them for double protection but I don't know if it is necessary. I also took a q-tip and put POR15 in, around and under the hole the screw goes in.
I don't know what Dodge will do but many people here have had them pay for a portion or all of it depending on extended warranty coverage.
The sills have two issues. 1)rivits 2) attaching screws
Rivits - Many posts talked about bi-metal corrosion but that's not true. The rivits are made from aluminum just like your sills. The problem is the heat from the exhaust. The rivits extend almost an inch inside the sill. This is the closest part to the exhaust. When it heats up, they heat up first. Since insulation is between the exhaust and sill, the sill heats up at a much different rate. The rivit is hot, the sill is cold, the rivit is in the sill hole = damage around the sill hole. Water, salt and other "stuff" gets in and around the hole and causes corrosion over time. Paint eventually bubbles and rivits fall out. Solution is to remove rivits, patch and repaint, and glue insulation to inside of sill like they do in new Vipers. Alternative solution is to obviously replace sills if cost effective.
Attaching screws - The original screws were black. I have no idea what they are made of but they are a joke. New screws are silver and are coated. I personally bought some type of primer from a good paint shop and sprayed them for double protection but I don't know if it is necessary. I also took a q-tip and put POR15 in, around and under the hole the screw goes in.
I don't know what Dodge will do but many people here have had them pay for a portion or all of it depending on extended warranty coverage.
malcoll
Enthusiast
Chuck, thankyou for taking time from your very busy day to converse with me on my problem.
It is truly folks like you who made, and make, America a great nation! Thankyou for your offer of assistance, and thankyou for sharing your knowledge with me, a total stranger.
Interactions such as this renew our faith.
Have a great week,
Lance
Lance
HP
Enthusiast
Dan Cole with Danny's Auto - has an offer to totally restore your side sills
for $500 each. This includes chemical stripping - TIG welding the holes
and painting to match your car. The end product would be actually better
than new. This is way beyond what you could get at a body shop -
since he will totally strip the parts and prep the aluminum - rather than adding extra layers to a bad foundation. his # is 570-596-2269
for $500 each. This includes chemical stripping - TIG welding the holes
and painting to match your car. The end product would be actually better
than new. This is way beyond what you could get at a body shop -
since he will totally strip the parts and prep the aluminum - rather than adding extra layers to a bad foundation. his # is 570-596-2269
RedEnuf93
Enthusiast
Dan just did my sills. He also "customized" the sills to my taste by painting them all red without black areas.
Dan has done work for me previously, great quality at reasonable rates! I will pick my front facia from him this weekend.
Ps. Dan is a Viper owner too.... One more reason to use him.
This is why I drive 500 miles to get my stuff painted with Dan or why I drive 440 miles to Chuck's place to get motor work done.
Lauri
Dan has done work for me previously, great quality at reasonable rates! I will pick my front facia from him this weekend.
Ps. Dan is a Viper owner too.... One more reason to use him.
This is why I drive 500 miles to get my stuff painted with Dan or why I drive 440 miles to Chuck's place to get motor work done.
Lauri
dansauto
Enthusiast
Yes, I will do these for you guys that can not get them fixed under warrenty. I will strip, grind, tig the holes back up and refinish. If you replace the factory rivits with Stainless steel you should not ever have a problem again. I will send photos of what I do to anyone interested. Please email me at [email protected] or call me during the evenings at 570-596-2269. My work and paint match is guarenteed.
Vpr898
Viper Owner
Ok, 20 years later, anyone still known for restoring these?
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I think you just need to find someone who can do aluminum repair. Since Ford or whoever did the whole aluminum truck bed thing, that might not be as hard to come by at a body shop nowadays. The shape isn't super complex either since it's pretty much just a flat panel if the corrosion hasn't spread that far.
Vpr898
Viper Owner
Good point about the F150, should make aluminum repair services a bit more common.
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