Sill Sill Insulation Question

[Ron]

Does anyone know if the replacement side sills use the same insulation as early GTS's which is foil lined only on the side facing the cat, (see photo) or a completely (both side) foil covered blanket?

Thanks

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[Ron]

Let me ask it another way.

Has anyone removed their side sill insulation and had it look different than above?

Thanks

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Let me ask it another way.

LOL

Sorry Ron. I've had my sills off a few times but never really noticed. I remember thinking they looked like crap, if thats any help.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Mine were foil both sides

 

[Ron]

Chuck;

Crap is the word.

I really can't believe the design. Water from washing / rain is absorbed by the insulation, (penetrates from the upper elongated screw holes) it lays on the inside of the aluminum sill rotting it over time. My sill hasn't seen water for 3 weeks (last time I washed it) and when I took it off it was soaked. 4 days now in a dry sunny inside location, outside of the sill, and it's still damp. This GEN II corrosion issue has nothing to do with rivets (there aren't any) and everything to do with constant moisture. Beyond engineering a fix, no one should park a 96 ~ ?? Viper after a rain or wash without a hard run to attempt to heat dry the sills.

I strongly suggest anyone with early GENII Vipers carefully remove their sills and inspect / paint the inside to prevent the inevitable corrosion from occuring. Getting a warranty replacement sill is nice, but perhaps the corrosion will occur the day after your warranty expires or perhaps the paint will never match.

Edmundton. Thanks, at least I can hope my replacement sill is better designed.

 

[Toby]

My side sills are showing corrosion around the rivets and I can still get them replaced but it kills me to think I might get a new set with paint that doesn't match.


Man...tha'ts ugly in there.

 

[Ron]

Toby,

What rivets are you referring to?

There are only 3 and they attach the end cap to the sill in front of the rear tire. To be honest I have never seen corrosion in that area. I think we are all confusing the GENI rivet issue with GENII insulation induced corrosion.

 

[Toby]

oops...my bad...I was talking about the ones up front/top just under the hood. My other rivets look fine.

I guess my question is..do they replace the side sills for my problem or should I just do the repair myself and be happy?

 

[genXgts]

Ron, just looked at mine on my OEM 97 sills.

Idnetical to your picture, only mine are much more well done than yours, like charcoal briquettes, only different.
Swell design, be glad we are investigating apres combustion unlike some other hapless souls!

I dropped my insulation, ceramic coated from header to tails (Roe Ovals) and POR15 coating my sills (on both sides of the pipe), and has so far stopped the yellowing on my Blue GTS in it's tracks and made the cabin 110% more comfortable with respect to heat.

 

[Ron]

Thanks for the update Ryan. My sills hit about 235 degrees at times. Any idea what yours runs at now? I wonder how much of your new found coolness can be attributed to the HF cats vs. the ceramic coating?

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

Ever cook a baked potato or something in tin foil on the grill. Afterwards the tin foil is all krinkled up and charred. Well that's what my side sill heat shields look like!!!!! Plus the moisture has rusted through the thin metal foild right near the cat on both sills. Looks pretty ugly.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

At one time there was a discussion about using header wrap on the cats. I don't recall what the final conclusion was. Seems like it wouldn't hurt, but I dunno.

 

[95Viper]

I wouldn't directly wrap the cats...no air space around them and they'll be way over specs on top end temp.

 

[Ron]

While I don't know whether the cat wrap issue is real or just an opinion replicated over the years, sadly there is no airflow around that cat in the stock configuration....

Don't really see how wrapping could be worse assuming the wrap didn't ignite!

 

[Motor City Mad Man]

The whole problem with header wrap, from what I hear, is that it traps moisture between the wrap and the exhaust pipe. So the exhaust would eventually rust out a lot quicker. I know at least my exhaust is stainless steel, but it does not mean it is rust proof. I have seen pictures of headers that had header wrap on them and they were all corroded underneath. Maybe someone more knowledgeable than me on this subject can chime in, as I may not know what the heck I am talking about.

 

[95Viper]

Wrap equals corrosion = yes, less to worry about with stainless but still a problem. I'd coat before I'd wrap.

Airflow around factory cat is very limited but not at zero. Wrapping completely takes away any airspace. The cats are already cooking the sills to the point that you can't touch them. Imagine if ALL of that heat went directly back into the cat. Failure will come soon.

 

[Ron]

Craig,

Agree that cat failure could be an issue, however from what I'm told when cat failure occurs the cause is that the catalytic metals on ceramic media migrate internally and become ineffective or get blown out the exhaust if deposited on metallic media.

End result, no longer an effective emmission device, but not catastrophic failure.

From a heat perspective, how is ceramic coating the cat any different from cat wrapping?

Thanks guys.....

 

[varanus]

My side sills have measured between 275 to 300 degrees, much hotter than everyone else. That was with hi flow cats too.

 

[Ron]

Re: Side Sill Insulation Question

varanus

Wow, how does your sill paint look? Your sill insulation must be toast. Surprised that the high flow runs so hot. Worth pulling a sill off and inspecting.....

 

[95Viper]

Ron, Didn't mean to suggest temp coating the cat...just the pipes instead of wrapping. Also meant that failure means people here in emissions states needing to buy new cats(expensive) and weld them in to pass inspections.

I'll have something soon that solves all your problems though and addresses my concerns and theories. Craig

 

[varanus]

varanus

Wow, how does your sill paint look? Your sill insulation must be toast. Surprised that the high flow runs so hot. Worth pulling a sill off and inspecting.....

when I first got the car the sills were quite warm. I put on random tech hi flow cats which really cooled them off. I then added headers and they ran hotter than ever. A faulty thermostat and the mechanic running the car hot caused the sill to get so hot that one turned brown, melted the plastic plugs in the sill panel and some aftermarket speaker wiring. The mechanic knew the car was running hot, but never realized the side sill was burning.
When the sc wasn't tuned well the af was all over the place and ultimately the cats burned out.
Cats were replaced and while my mechanic was working on it i was on the opposite side of him and noticed smoke coming from the burning paint. So I need to check the cats again and get the sill repainted plus figure out insultation.