The solenoid is nothing else but a cyclic duty electromagentic switch so no, it does not need to know anything else besides voltage and current to make it move. I think what was stated before was a scenario where the ECM runs a functionality test using that information to confirm that the solenoid performed its function and that the expected result was achieved. However, if the dummy works, this notion was not true and the reason for ECL to come on is related to the resistors used either not being of correct value or not performing as the solenoid itself would. Unlike the solenoid mechanism, the resistor is always there. I think I am going to cough up the money and buy another solenoid. I am hoping someone can come up with a better design for the arm limiter than the bottle, LOL.
Skip shift issue on 2009 and 2010 Viper possible solution!!
- Thread starter CaptainDavid
- Start date
SSGNRDZ_28
Enthusiast
The solenoid is a passive device. Only two pins. For pre 2008 cars the passive / hardware CAGS eliminator worked without throwing a code.
The question is why do these skip shift eliminators not work on 2009-2010? The system (PCM) is smarter now. The PCM MAY only monitor current and voltage with higher accuracy to see if the solenoid is working or to confirm it isn’t just a simple resistor in place of a solenoid. If this is true, this solution will work.
But
The system may actually confirm the car has gone into 4th gear when the skip shift is requested by calculating gear with speed and RPM. If this is the case the solution will not work and a more complex solution will be required to ‘fool’ the PCM.
The question is – can 2009-2010 cars utilize a “hardware only” solution: a secondary solenoid OR is more needed?
My car is 2008 with Mopar PCM so I don’t have to worry, but I think there is more validation required to prove this solution actually works. I’m not saying this does not work, but I don’t think enough information has been presented to say that it does?
The question is why do these skip shift eliminators not work on 2009-2010? The system (PCM) is smarter now. The PCM MAY only monitor current and voltage with higher accuracy to see if the solenoid is working or to confirm it isn’t just a simple resistor in place of a solenoid. If this is true, this solution will work.
But
The system may actually confirm the car has gone into 4th gear when the skip shift is requested by calculating gear with speed and RPM. If this is the case the solution will not work and a more complex solution will be required to ‘fool’ the PCM.
The question is – can 2009-2010 cars utilize a “hardware only” solution: a secondary solenoid OR is more needed?
My car is 2008 with Mopar PCM so I don’t have to worry, but I think there is more validation required to prove this solution actually works. I’m not saying this does not work, but I don’t think enough information has been presented to say that it does?
Steve M
Enthusiast
Nevermind...I see why this is questionable. Basically, we'd need insight into what that functionality check was. Something like "solenoid activated, clutch depressed, clutch engaged, RPM dropped from X to Y after clutch was cycled (so you don't count the RPM change while the clutch was depressed)". I'd assume it'd have to be a pretty broad window that the RPM drop could fall in to keep from setting that light constantly.
I think you give Chryser and the PCM more credit than it deserves. This seems like a case of narrowing down the monitoring range to the point where a generic CAGS bypass is just not close enough to fit in the needed range. Not expecting the OP to do this but it could be measured to determine the actual resistor value needed.
SSGNRDZ_28
Enthusiast
If it is only looking for the electrical model of the solenoid it will likely need to be more than a resistor. It will probably need to be a resistor and capacitor and / or inductor at minimum (assuming it is that smart, LOL).
I may be giving the PCM more credit than it deserves, however, these things are all pretty simple to do and all the information is already there so I wouldn’t say it is impossible.
I wish I could find a link somewhere with the actual regulation, I thought I saw how the government required confirmation of skip shift in 2009 and perhaps how that is done, I just can’t find the link at this time.
SSGNRDZ_28
Enthusiast
Maybe something to do with the model year vs. build year? Do 2010 Vettes work the same way?
To quote the first post (I have seen this elsewhere too):
This from Viper Parts of America.
Okay, here is what we learned: Starting in 2009, CARB/EPA required that the Viper skip shift diagnostic not only performed a simple circuit check (as it had in previous years), but also include a rationality check to determine if the skipshift actually took place. This means that youcould no longer install a simple load device that looks like the solenoidelectrically such as used in previous generations. Simply said, the rationality check looks for the correct rpm drop when the skipshift is enabled and the vehicle shift occurs in that window and if, after six consecutive samples the rpm drop is not correct, it will throw a CEL as it interprets it as a malfunctioning system. The Mopar controller eliminates that of course.
To quote the first post (I have seen this elsewhere too):
This from Viper Parts of America.
Okay, here is what we learned: Starting in 2009, CARB/EPA required that the Viper skip shift diagnostic not only performed a simple circuit check (as it had in previous years), but also include a rationality check to determine if the skipshift actually took place. This means that youcould no longer install a simple load device that looks like the solenoidelectrically such as used in previous generations. Simply said, the rationality check looks for the correct rpm drop when the skipshift is enabled and the vehicle shift occurs in that window and if, after six consecutive samples the rpm drop is not correct, it will throw a CEL as it interprets it as a malfunctioning system. The Mopar controller eliminates that of course.
You can defeat skip shift on any corvette, through 2013. Another thing, CARB is in California, EPA countrywide. If this was the case, Corvette would be affected as well and it is not.
I would have to think hes fine. Order the solenoid if you want to give it a shot.
CaptainDavid
Enthusiast
Haven,t driven much since last report, but all is still good..........still holding
WAM
Enthusiast
PeterMJ, I would be interested on how this goes for you. I have ordered the part but I'm waiting for the car to get delivered. I would be great if you would report back here.
Thanks
Thanks
I don't understand why you keep questioning it. Someone offered a solution that worked for them with information. They stated that they would update if there were issues. The last update is that it worked. Try it, if it works great enjoy it. If not share your experience. This is what the hobby is about.
That or you could continue to question it until you are green in the face.
What's it to you? I am inquisitive and bugging the OP for updates appeals to me way more than dealing with a Chrysler dealer to reset the CEL. Seems like you are already turning green yourself.I don't understand why you keep questioning it. Someone offered a solution that worked for them with information. They stated that they would update if there were issues. The last update is that it worked. Try it, if it works great enjoy it. If not share your experience. This is what the hobby is about.
That or you could continue to question it until you are green in the face.
Let us keep those updates up to dateAre we still waiting cautiosly or is it ok to order dummy solenoid?
It seems to me, one persons solution was offered to whoever wanted to try it. He also stated it's worked fine for him. So to me I see there are 2 options.
You can continue to question it 3 months later.
Or try it yourself and learn how to drive your car without the skip shift 
I look forward to your review.
don't blow a gasketIt seems to me, one persons solution was offered to whoever wanted to try it. He also stated it's worked fine for him. So to me I see there are 2 options.
You can continue to question it 3 months later.
I look forward to your review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pA1h1FjBZg
CaptainDavid
Enthusiast
Originally installed in Feb 2013, approximately 3000 miles I have never had a code or problem with this installation...I have 6 forward gears all the time!!
CaptainDavid
Enthusiast
I understand that this seems to be the solution some dealers are using for the Gen V.
WAM
Enthusiast
I installed the dummy solenoid about two months ago. Didn't have to drop the belly pan. Easy fix. Have not driven the car much because of the season, it has worked fine with no problems.
dirkbonn
Viper Owner
I'm not wanting to "beat a dead horse" here, but I'm looking to purchase a 2010 Viper here in the next week or so and I know that the "skip shift" requirement would bug the daylights out of me. So I'm just wondering if installing an actual solinoid as described in this thread has
become the accepted solution to the 2009/2010 skip shift problem?
I have searched these forums and haven't seen anything additional about this issue. I see CaptainDavid had gone about 10 months and didn't report a failure. Also maybe nobody is even monitoring this thread so I'll just wait and see what happens,
Thanks,
become the accepted solution to the 2009/2010 skip shift problem?
I have searched these forums and haven't seen anything additional about this issue. I see CaptainDavid had gone about 10 months and didn't report a failure. Also maybe nobody is even monitoring this thread so I'll just wait and see what happens,
Thanks,
dirkbonn
Viper Owner
Well, I bought a 2010 Red Viper coupe with tan interior. Only 4200 miles. Found it in Utah. Was hauling it in an enclosed trailer to Minnesota. Front wheel bearing went south on the tow vehicle about 350 miles from MPLS. So parked the tow rig and drove the Viper the last 350 miles.
Getting all the fluids changed now and a new set of tires and alignment. Then towing it to my home in South Carolina.
Just checking with anyone who knows if just adding a skip shift solenoid as described in this thread works? Even though the solenoid is only $60, I hate to spend the $$$ if it's not going to cure the problem.
Thanks to anyone who can help me out.
Getting all the fluids changed now and a new set of tires and alignment. Then towing it to my home in South Carolina.
Just checking with anyone who knows if just adding a skip shift solenoid as described in this thread works? Even though the solenoid is only $60, I hate to spend the $$$ if it's not going to cure the problem.
Thanks to anyone who can help me out.
dirkbonn
Viper Owner
Well, since I rec'd no replies, I went ahead and ordered the solinoid and it came in the mail today. Now I just have to find the time and place to install it.
I do have another quick question, unrelated to the "skip-shift" question.
How diificult is it to put some 3.55 gears in my '10 Viper. Not that I would attempt it myself, but is the diff in my car considered a Dana super 44 or a Dana 44 HD? Or are those names just describing the the diff in my car two different ways? Or a third possibility, some other name entirely? I'm asking because I have a chance to buy a 3.55 ring & pinion for a real attractive price, (PN - P5007325) and would like to know if it will fit in my Viper? Does the 2010 Viper have 7/16ths dia ring gear bolts?
Thanks to anyone who replies. Perhaps I should start a new thread with the 3.55 ring & pinion question?
I do have another quick question, unrelated to the "skip-shift" question.
How diificult is it to put some 3.55 gears in my '10 Viper. Not that I would attempt it myself, but is the diff in my car considered a Dana super 44 or a Dana 44 HD? Or are those names just describing the the diff in my car two different ways? Or a third possibility, some other name entirely? I'm asking because I have a chance to buy a 3.55 ring & pinion for a real attractive price, (PN - P5007325) and would like to know if it will fit in my Viper? Does the 2010 Viper have 7/16ths dia ring gear bolts?
Thanks to anyone who replies. Perhaps I should start a new thread with the 3.55 ring & pinion question?
