Slow cooling fan

[jimbalayajag]

I have a 2006 Coupe, the radiator fan was turning really slow, so the car would get hot if I was in traffic. I just had a brand new fan installed, it seems to be turning "fast" but not "airplane fast" that I remember. Is it my ECU? Power Steering pump getting weak? Car has 43k on it.

 

[Old School]

The fan turn on temps are 207 for low speed, 216 for high.

 

[MoparMap]

Gen 3 fan was hydraulic as well, so there are a couple places to look. Since you replaced the fan already though that potentially eliminates the valves in that module as a problem. I had an issue where the relief valve in my fan stuck open, which made me lose power steering. Since the fluid was constantly bypassing as well it would boil over super easy and ruin the pump. If your fan was going out it could have damaged your pump so you don't have the same kind of pressure and flow you did before. One easy check on the fan is to pull the plug on the coolant temp sensor at the top of the thermostat housing. That will put the pump in full 100% cooling limp mode and could give you an idea of how well it's working.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I have a 2006 Coupe, the radiator fan was turning really slow, so the car would get hot if I was in traffic. I just had a brand new fan installed, it seems to be turning "fast" but not "airplane fast" that I remember. Is it my ECU? Power Steering pump getting weak? Car has 43k on it.

1. I assume your Power Steering seems to be operating fine?

2. I assume you have no leaks in the system, and the installation appears to be done correctly?

3. I assume that there have been no changes in PCM programming at the same time this occurred?

4. Do you have a Check Engine Light?

5. Check the color of your Power Steering Fluid.


Basically, assuming none of the obvious above, you likely have either a wiring fault to the hydraulic fan control solenoid, or a bad PCM. Its *possible" you have a fan issue, but seeing as I am guessing the fan was replaced for not working properly, its unlikely you would have the same issue twice.

Need details guys.

 

[jimbalayajag]

1. Power steering operating fine.
2. No leaks, appears to be installed correctly.
3. No changes to the PCM
4. No check engine light.
5 What power steering fluid is recommended? That could be an issue. It is clear.
*I will have him check the wiring on the pcm*

Great info, guys, this will give me a couple things to check before I start throwing more parts at the problem. I just remember the fan kicking on fast, then turning off once it cooled down, now it just seems to run at mid-speed for a longer period of time.

Thanks again!!

 

[Steve-Indy]

The factory fill for your Viper's power steering system was/is Mopar ATF+4.

Note: The 2006 Viper Service Manual (and ALL prior Service Manuals) says to avoid ATF's in the P/S ...though Dodge used ATF+4 in Viper P/S systems starting in model year 2004 through 2006, 2008-2010, and 2013-2017.

NOTE ALSO that your 2006 Viper Owners Manual says to use ATF+4 in the P/S system.

I hope this helps.

 

[Steve M]

...and in case anyone was wondering, ATF+4 is cherry red.

It doesn't taste like cherries though (also in case anyone was wondering).

 

[jimbalayajag]

Damn, I was gonna make a Shirley Temple...(or maybe a Roy Rogers)

 

[Viper Specialty]

While the fluid isnt the current problem, it will cause issues. They ******* up big time by mixing fluids. You are going to be flushing that system weekly for the next year if you want all of the wrong fluid out.

Based on everything you are saying, I am guessing you have a partial break on one of the solenoid control wires between the fan and PCM.

 

[jimbalayajag]

Ok Dan, that is a huge help, I am going to flush the system and pick some of that AT+4 (do I need to get the Mopar brand or will any AT+4 be OK?). I'll check the wiring and also check for leaks. Thanks for your help, it is really appreciated. I have some time off at the end of the week, so I am going to jump on it then.

 

[Steve M]

Ok Dan, that is a huge help, I am going to flush the system and pick some of that AT+4 (do I need to get the Mopar brand or will any AT+4 be OK?). I'll check the wiring and also check for leaks. Thanks for your help, it is really appreciated. I have some time off at the end of the week, so I am going to jump on it then.

ATF+4 is a spec, so if an oil says it is an ATF+4, I tend to believe the manufacturer (or whoever slapped the label on it). I've used Mopar and Castrol labeled ATF+4, and they certainly didn't look any different. You can find the stuff pretty much anywhere, so pick your poison.

 

[Ryan Walvoord]

So similar issue with my 2004, had the PS/Fan assembly replaced last year. Everything has been good up till yesterday. Noticed temps rising at idle, fine when driving. Just looked at my PS fluid. At first glance it looks like green baby food in color. but when soak up a bit with a paper towel its pink. I would assume I need to flush?

 

[GTS Dean]

Start with an empty reservoir! Your steering rack is a double-acting hydraulic cylinder with the piston in the middle. It has a good bit of fluid on both sides and to get that out, you should really turn the wheel to the lock in one direction and vacuum drain the reservoir. Cut the wheel to lock the opposite direction and vacuum drain again.

Refill with fresh fluid, with wheels off the ground turn lock-to-lock several times unpowered and replenish fluid to Cold mark. Set wheels on ground, start engine, repeat lock-lock cycles several times, check and replenish fluid. Check levels regularly for several days.

 

[MoparMap]

So similar issue with my 2004, had the PS/Fan assembly replaced last year. Everything has been good up till yesterday. Noticed temps rising at idle, fine when driving. Just looked at my PS fluid. At first glance it looks like green baby food in color. but when soak up a bit with a paper towel its pink. I would assume I need to flush?

I think that sounds like it's got air in the system and is foaming the fluid. If everything is working correctly it should flush itself out in time, but as GTS Dean mentioned it's better to try to work any air out while the car off first as the pump doesn't really like pumping foamy fluid all that much. I would think it would sound pretty awful too if it had that much air in it. Would certainly expect some kind of whine or something.

 

[jimbalayajag]

I figured out my problem: a leaky return line and a bad power steering pump. Going to replace those and the serpentine belt while I am at it. Then it's for sale.

 

[sailnaked6842]

Gonna highjack this thread since I'm currently having some issues with power steering right now and need to rule a few things out. First - I bought the car as a project and had to buy all the power steering parts for it (pump, lines, radiator fan, rack...) so everything here can be assumed 'questionable'. At the same time the motor was rebuilt and has about 20 minutes of run time on it so reducing idle time or engine stress is a priority for a little while. With the car in the air I can grab the wheels and turn them side to side like there's hardly any resistance, and when the car is running it doesn't seem like there's any power assist.

Leaking can be ruled out - the lines have no oil on them
Fluid can be ruled out - it's brand new ATF +4
Radiator - jury's out, haven't seen the hydraulic fan physically run, but the engine is new. Sounds like you can pull the coolant temperature sensor to test the fan's hydraulic circuit? I think I also read that relief pressure could be tested?
Pump - Will have a power steering pressure tester available to ensure pump is in spec
Rack - rack is dry
ECU - no guarantees, EMIC throws code 13 "internal bus failure" and I have no reading for oil temp, oil pressure, or fuel. Coolant temperature and voltage read fine

Lastly the fluid doesn't have any air bubbles in it and has never been warm to the touch after driving it around the block which also seems to point to the hydraulic relief valve.

Between being able to grab the wheels and move them lock to lock, literally 0 power assist, no air bubbles, and the fluid isn't even warm to the touch, I'm suspecting the the relief valve but if anyone has anything else they can think of to check I'm all ears here.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Gonna highjack this thread since I'm currently having some issues with power steering right now and need to rule a few things out. First - I bought the car as a project and had to buy all the power steering parts for it (pump, lines, radiator fan, rack...) so everything here can be assumed 'questionable'. At the same time the motor was rebuilt and has about 20 minutes of run time on it so reducing idle time or engine stress is a priority for a little while. With the car in the air I can grab the wheels and turn them side to side like there's hardly any resistance, and when the car is running it doesn't seem like there's any power assist.

Leaking can be ruled out - the lines have no oil on them
Fluid can be ruled out - it's brand new ATF +4
Radiator - jury's out, haven't seen the hydraulic fan physically run, but the engine is new. Sounds like you can pull the coolant temperature sensor to test the fan's hydraulic circuit? I think I also read that relief pressure could be tested?
Pump - Will have a power steering pressure tester available to ensure pump is in spec
Rack - rack is dry
ECU - no guarantees, EMIC throws code 13 "internal bus failure" and I have no reading for oil temp, oil pressure, or fuel. Coolant temperature and voltage read fine

Lastly the fluid doesn't have any air bubbles in it and has never been warm to the touch after driving it around the block which also seems to point to the hydraulic relief valve.

Between being able to grab the wheels and move them lock to lock, literally 0 power assist, no air bubbles, and the fluid isn't even warm to the touch, I'm suspecting the the relief valve but if anyone has anything else they can think of to check I'm all ears here.

Does your fan "idle" when the engine is running? Hydraulic fans are always idling at a slow speed. If not, I suspect you have a pump issue as you are building no pressure to idle the fan or actuate the rack.

 

[99RT10GTS]

Does your fan "idle" when the engine is running? Hydraulic fans are always idling at a slow speed. If not, I suspect you have a pump issue as you are building no pressure to idle the fan or actuate the rack.

Yep, those Hydraulic fans are AWESOME............................

 

[Viper Specialty]

Yep, those Hydraulic fans are AWESOME............................

Really? Did you even read the part about not having power steering and the car being bought with nothing from the steering system or fan system and it having to be pieced together, with every part of the system being questionable as a result? Or did you just skip to the "hydraulic bad!" conclusion to bestow upon us.

I'm sure that's not a factor at all there, Mike. Literally 99% of the time you can track every "problem" back to someone who screwed something up previously.

You must have a Gen-4 electric fan you're trying to sell, never seen someone push so hard for things that doesn't matter

PS- Idling is a positive, unless you like things melted from heat updrafts as is common on other generations.

 

[99RT10GTS]

Really? Did you even read the part about not having power steering and the car being bought with nothing from the steering system or fan system and it having to be pieced together, with every part of the system being questionable as a result? Or did you just skip to the "hydraulic bad!" conclusion to bestow upon us.

I'm sure that's not a factor at all there, Mike. Literally 99% of the time you can track every "problem" back to someone who screwed something up previously.

You must have a Gen-4 electric fan you're trying to sell, never seen someone push so hard for things that doesn't matter

Nope, I don't. But I will need to find one for myself when mine implodes.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Nope, I don't. But I will need to find one for myself when mine implodes.

Learn how to properly service it, use the proper fluids, and don't run into things... and you have a slim chance of that happening.

But if you're hell-bent on Electric, just mix some ATF+4 and PS fluid together. That speeds up the failure nicely

 

[sailnaked6842]

Does your fan "idle" when the engine is running? Hydraulic fans are always idling at a slow speed. If not, I suspect you have a pump issue as you are building no pressure to idle the fan or actuate the rack.

It does not, I also pulled the ECT and the fan doesn't spin.

With the engine running I was able to spin the fan by hand pretty easily which is...unexpected.

I rented a power steering pressure tester last night and I might have a few minutes to hook that up tonight but my guess is you're right, but I don't really see how the pump would output near 0 psi. Not something I've ever seen out of a vane pump

 

[Viper Specialty]

It does not, I also pulled the ECT and the fan doesn't spin.

With the engine running I was able to spin the fan by hand pretty easily which is...unexpected.

I rented a power steering pressure tester last night and I might have a few minutes to hook that up tonight but my guess is you're right, but I don't really see how the pump would output near 0 psi. Not something I've ever seen out of a vane pump

Look inside the reservoir with the engine idling. Can you see PS fluid moving/frothing? There is a good amount of flow in steady-state idle, regardless of downstream pass-through conditions. If you see nothing moving, you arent moving any fluid anywhere in the first place.

That also begs the question, are you sure you have the correct parts and correct assembly/routing?

My first inclination is that your pump isn't pumping, and that's likely due to being the wrong design/pressure relief valve and its just bypassing 24/7. Otherwise, you pump inlet may be blocked and fluid cant make it to the pump. In the latter condition, your pump is probably already damaged from lack of lubrication.

You need to figure out *** is going on before you end up with a fan module and rack full of metal particulate and have to replace everything again. Unfortunately you dont know what you are dealing with well enough- a non-idling Hydro Fan would have been indication 1 that the car should never have been run or driven, and indication 2 was no power steering, confirming the problem.

If you end up lost on it, I appear to be a couple hours south of you... and I assure you I can figure it out.

 

[sailnaked6842]

That also begs the question, are you sure you have the correct parts and correct assembly?

Bought from Brian Jones so pretty sure they're the correct parts and I think the lines can only be assembled one way - the fittings are different sizes, ya know?

Seems like the flow path is from the top of the power steering pump, to the fan, fan drain back to reservoir, fan to rack, rack to PS cooler, ps cooler back to reservoir. If they're in that order I don't think you can mess them up?

I can verify tonight if I have fluid moving. Definitely have pressure in the reservoir after running the engine though.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Look inside the reservoir with the engine idling. Can you see PS fluid moving/frothing? There is a good amount of flow in steady-state idle, regardless of downstream pass-through conditions. If you see nothing moving, you arent moving any fluid anywhere.

That also begs the question, are you sure you have the correct parts and correct assembly?

Bought from Brian Jones so pretty sure they're the correct parts and I think the lines can only be assembled one way - the fittings are different sizes, ya know?

Seems like the flow path is from the top of the power steering pump, to the fan, fan drain back to reservoir, fan to rack, rack to PS cooler, ps cooler back to reservoir. If they're in that order I don't think you can mess them up?

I can verify tonight if I have fluid moving. Definitely have pressure in the reservoir after running the engine though.

Its definitely tough to screw up, and yes, that routing is proper. That said, without having seen any of it, there is no guarantee its even all original... which could introduce who-knows-what problems if so.

 

[MoparMap]

A power steering tester goes a long way in finding out where the issue is, but you might run into issues with fittings if you don't have the Viper specific one. The gauge tester thing itself is generic, but the adapters to use it on various system are what make them "unique". I bought one for a Saturn for dirt cheap on Ebay to get the main unit and hoses, but had to use the adapter fittings that came with my AN conversion kit I bought for the system to actually be able to hook it up. Guess I got some use out of them in the long run as I don't actually use them or the hoses that came with the conversion kit on the car now.

 

[GTS Dean]

Here's the dealer's unit in action. It has a pressure gauge, a flow meter, and a shutoff valve to initiate bypass condition. It comes with common Chrysler corp adapters.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Doing a call girl's taxes is less complicated.

All the other words were being ***.

 

[sailnaked6842]

Thanks for the help guys, I got a power steering tester, without the flow meter though, and the pictures help to confirm that's the location to put it but unfortunately I didn't have the time to hook it up and I'm jumping on a flight at 5 am. Really appreciate the help

I'll update this in a week, but symptoms seem to be pointing at stuck relief, and looking at the location of the relief valve and seems to be hard to get at. Shot in the dark is its easier to pull the fan than it is to pull the reliefs while the fans in the car? Probably keeps things cleaner too?

 

[sailnaked6842]

A power steering tester goes a long way in finding out where the issue is, but you might run into issues with fittings if you don't have the Viper specific one. The gauge tester thing itself is generic, but the adapters to use it on various system are what make them "unique". I bought one for a Saturn for dirt cheap on Ebay to get the main unit and hoses, but had to use the adapter fittings that came with my AN conversion kit I bought for the system to actually be able to hook it up. Guess I got some use out of them in the long run as I don't actually use them or the hoses that came with the conversion kit on the car now.

I see, thanks for the heads up, any chance you recall what size adapter you needed? I'll make sure I've got it, but if not no problem, Google might have the answer