so if the SRT-10 is a better car...

[Hans Christian]

MAC

Ditto

I simply just enjoy my wild beast + I will ad the coupe when that comes out !!

 

[Lawrenzo]

Hello everyone!
Do you realize how much it cost for retooling? MAC <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font>

Didn't Dodge save thou$and$ by switching from the single piece front ends to a standard hood? Where did the savings go? Probably whisked away like Saddam's oil for food money!


Oh, and having so many serious recalls, TSB's and defects has kept me from even considering the SRT- normally the bugs are worked out quicker, aren't they?

 

[Makara]

I hate the bashing of the SRT-10 by Gen I and GenII owners (and a 16 year old non-viper owner from Canada) Gen I and Gen II cars are fantastic cars as well. However, I wouldn't trade my SRT-10 for a Gen I or II and I would bet that most Gen I and Gen II owners would gladly trade for a Gen III if money was not an issue.

Ummmmm, no. I owned a Gen I when I saw the SRT-10 for the first time at the LA auto show. Almost immediatly, I bought a final edition. I had considered the SRT until I saw it.

 

[Makara]

Hello everyone!
Do you realize how much it cost for retooling? MAC <font color="red"> </font> <font color="red"> </font>

Didn't Dodge save thou$and$ by switching from the single piece front ends to a standard hood? Where did the savings go? Probably whisked away like Saddam's oil for food money!


Oh, and having so many serious recalls, TSB's and defects has kept me from even considering the SRT- normally the bugs are worked out quicker, aren't they?

I was under the impression that the Gen II cars were sold at a loss. The Gen III cars make a tiny tiny profit. Then again, I could be wrong.



Janni, great post!

 

[Russ M]

The SRT-10 is just that and SRT-10, it is not a viper and never will be.

If Dodge had just left the Viper label dead after the gen 2 cars no one would be making these comparisons.

I see many people posting the superiority of gen 3 vipers on here. But they seem to be a bit confused, when it comes to the real performance gains.

Acceleration they are identical, no SRT's have been showed to out accelerate a gen 2.

Cornering ability is about the same on both but the SRT "Feels more stable".

Braking is the only major benefit on the SRT, but to this date I have yet to see track times on the SRT beat that of Gen 2 cars.

My personal feelings on the SRT is that they are a good looking car, with everything in the right place. However DaimlerBenz does not promote it as they should.

Drifting crowd isnt exactly viper owner picking grounds.

 

[VIPER D]

I hate the bashing of the SRT-10 by Gen I and GenII owners (and a 16 year old non-viper owner from Canada) Gen I and Gen II cars are fantastic cars as well. However, I wouldn't trade my SRT-10 for a Gen I or II and I would bet that most Gen I and Gen II owners would gladly trade for a Gen III if money was not an issue.

Ummmmm, no. I owned a Gen I when I saw the SRT-10 for the first time at the LA auto show. Almost immediatly, I bought a final edition. I had considered the SRT until I saw it.

I had a gen 2 and was happy to see it go...... for a gen 3 of course!!!


vd..

 

[VIPER D]

On a side note

Does this mean that the white mamba has the lowest production #'s in viper history????????


vd..

 

[Janni]

Well, there were 53 Blue with white stripe 1997 RT/10s and less than a handful of the red GTS with sparkle gold wheels....

 

[Snakester]

Plus there were 100 GT2 Commemorative GTS Vipers sold in 1998 (also white).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lots of good points, and I agree that the bigger issues are likely over production for the market, and minimal promotion.

Is the Viper still THE halo car for Dodge?

Look at the stunning ads for the Ford GT and even the new Mustang. There have been some awesome ads for the Viper in the past, showing the car tearing through twisty mountain roads at speed.

While I don't think that the coupe was needed right away, with the convertible easily holding it's own for the first 2 years, it is needed now, and I also think that it needs a LOT more horsepower!

The Ford GT is only listing 550HP, but everyone knows that it is massively underrated. What is telling is that the Viper gets magazine testing against the Corvette, and the Ford GT gets tested against the $420K Porsche Carrera GT, and the $660K+ Ferrari Enzo. And because it's really tweaked to make 625-670HP in real life, it can actually kept up very well against the $$$ European exotics. Which is one reason why the Ford GTs are sold out, and commanding $200K+.

Unfortunately, DC seemed to be shooting to have the Viper compete with cars like the Porsche 911, by making it more civil. I don't fault them for that because the biggest criticism leveled against the Viper is that it's crude.

But I think that the Viper needs to be raised up a couple notches by adding a supercharger, and making at least 650HP.

The upcoming Corvette Z06 will be as quick as the current SRT-10, and lighter, for less money, and the Mustang will even have 500HP+ soon.

If I were DC I'd keep the regular Viper and bring out the SRT-10 Coupe, (both bumped up to say 550HP) AND build a new ACR model with carbon fiber body parts like the SEMA car AND add a supercharger!
Rate it at 600HP, but give it 675HP+ in real life.

Then when the comparisons are made, the Viper really stands out as a clearly superior performing car.
People who are just moving up from an older Porsche 911 or Corvette, or Mercedes can still enjoy the attributes (and price) of the impressive $83K SRT-10 Viper, but the press will get ahold of the "Super" Viper, and compare it against the best of the best as a real supercar. And if it costs $100K+ that's actually a bargain for such a car (and keep production under 600 cars a year).

The Corvette still sells fine, but the Z06 gets all of the attention.

The Viper needs to set itself apart once again.
It needs to be advertised well, and not oversold.
The SRT-10 Viper's improvements are great, and the car just needs a real power boost to be compared against Europe's BEST performance cars.

 

[SnakeBitten]

If it were just Chrysler again we wouldnt be having this discussion.....Now that its DC, the Viper is not really the image car of the company anymore imho....How many Benz products make more HP and TQ than the Viper...Quite a few. Some have 4 doors. I dont think the Viper holds the same importance in the company as it did before the merger. What we are seeing is a reflection of that...That being said the SRT10 is an incredible car but with so many similarly powered cars, most with much better comfort, its not hard to see why its struggling....Not many cars could hang with the GTS when it came out and for years after....It really stood out. Same cant be said of the SRT10 in todays world of performance cars.....It used to be a joke to mention the Vette/Mustang, even "sedan" in the same sentence with a Viper. Not anymore..

my "non-owner" 2cents.

 

[rbarta]

Maybe you don't want to hear from me, I don't own a Viper yet, but I love the SRT-10 and all Vipers that have come before them. BTW, the SRT-10 IS a Viper, anyone who thinks otherwise tough noogies.

Every comparison I have seen has put it as a better perfomer than previous versions, acceleration, handling, streetability, braking...period. In fact I have seen some comparisons favoring the Viper over the Ford GT, and that was in the pre-production model to which it has added a lot of fat.

Why isn't the SRT-10 selling? Too much competition, not enough marketing, and most of all not fixing known problems. They should put in higher flowing cats and dump the crossover on the exhaust to save heat and weight (adding the insulation was a step in the right direction). Why not put on more aggressive gearing right at the factory? Upping the HP/Torque doesn't help a whole lot if you lower the gearing, OK so I get a better top speed by a couple mph; I'm not going to drive it at 200mph, but I will accelerate to 60 on a daily basis. Perhaps they could upgrade the interior dash, put on the chrome gage bezels that everyone is buying aftermarket, maybe make the center console piece out of aluminum for the extra $500 they added onto the price this year. I also like the idea of having more colors, perhaps one or 2 a year along w/ red and black. But exhaust and gearing, hell everyone here is doing that the first week they own one. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that people don't want to sit in an oven. It's a design problem...fix it.

This is just my opinion and for the record I intend to buy an SRT-10 in the spring.

 

[DBK1]

The only people that seem to love it from day one ore vette people who finally got some $$$

That was a stupid comment. What was it that you drive again???

Come on now man! We know you had no cash until you got that Viper.

I hope to someday be able to "get some real $$$" and afford a Viper too.

(ps don't ask about Craig's car. It's so fast it's invisible. As is all the money he's earned from those jobs, which are also invisible)

 

[SnakeEye]

Craigster is probably sitting in his high chair glouting over the responses to his nonsensical fire starting thread. Maybe a little more supervision by his caretakers would curtail some of his jackassery.

 

[DBK1]

FWIW, the market is just saturated with so many options right now that inevitably sales will suffer. And they've just built too many. I've always been of the mind that in the near exotic sports car market, you only build as many as you're sure you'll sell.

Taking the "edge" off the looks of the Viper, regardless of the character of the car, opens it up to new shoppers, but closes the door on a few as well. There's no question it's superior to the old car, but some of the uniqueness that might have made a guy saying "I want nothing but a Viper" now take a look at perhaps a 911 or SL500 etc...

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Does this mean that the white mamba has the lowest production #'s in viper history????????

Nope, not even close! Comparatively speaking, the White Mamba is one of the most common Vipers out there. Here are all the Vipers produced in numbers less than 200. Grab a chair and at least a six-pack...

RT/10's

115 Black built in 1993
133 Emerald Green built in 1994
83 Yellow built in 1994
166 Red built in 1996
3 (THREE) Red with gold wheel packages built in 1997
64 Red built in 1997
1 (yes, ONE) Blue without stripes built in 1997
53 Blue with stripes built in 1997
1 (yes, ONE) red with smooth hood built in 1998
127 Silver built in 1998
3 (THREE) Red with Cognac interiors built in 1999
50 Silver with Cognac interiors built in 1999
116 Black with Cognac interiors built in 1999
131 Black with Cognac interiors built in 2000
158 Black with black interiors built in 2000
76 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2000
179 Red with black interiors built in 2000
99 Steel Gray with Cognac interiors built in 2000
197 Steel Gray with black interiors built in 2000
97 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2001
168 Red with black interiors built in 2001
120 Sapphire Blue with Cognac interiors built in 2001
132 Sapphire Blue with black interiors built in 2001
1 (yes, ONE) Steel Gray with Cognac interior built in 2001 (raffle car)
42 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2002
139 Red with black interiors built in 2002
1 (yes, ONE) Yellow with Cognac interior built in 2002
177 Yellow with black interiors built in 2002
43 Graphite with Cognac interiors built in 2002
143 Graphite with black interiors built in 2002

GTS-ACR

7 (SEVEN) Red with gold wheel package built in 1997
14 Red with yellow wheel package built in 1997
11 Red with stripes built in 1998
100 White with blue stripes built in 1998 (GT2)
21 Silver with blue stripes built in 1998
3 (THREE) Red with Cognac interiors built in 1999
22 Silver with Cognac interiors built in 1999
77 Black with Cognac interiors built in 1999
26 Black with silver stripes and Cognac interiors built in 1999
22 Red ACR's without stripes built in 1999
14 Red ACR's with stripes built in 1999
51 Silver ACR's without stripes built in 1999
30 Silver ACR's with stripes built in 1999
53 Black ACR's without stripes built in 1999
45 Black ACR's with stripes built in 1999
9 (NINE) ACR's built without Comfort Group (stereo &amp; A/C) in 1999
111 Red without stripes built in 2000
55 Red with stripes built in 2000
32 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2000
134 Red with black interiors built in 2000
38 Steel Gray with Cognac interiors built in 2000
166 Steel Gray without stripes built in 2000
126 Steel Gray with stripes built in 2000
79 Black with Cognac interiors built in 2000
194 Black with black interiors built in 2000
179 Black without stripes built in 2000
94 Black with stripes built in 2000
35 Red ACR's without stripes built in 2000
25 Red ACR's with stripes built in 2000
39 Steel Gray ACR's without stripes built in 2000
46 Steel Gray ACR's with stripes built in 2000
39 Black ACR's without stripes built in 2000
34 Black ACR's with stripes built in 2000
1 (yes, ONE) Black/silver with BBS wheels (raffle car)
17 ACR's built without the Comfort Group (stereo &amp; A/C) in 2000
108 Red without stripes built in 2001
36 Red with stripes built in 2001
21 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2001
123 Red with black interiors built in 2001
183 Yellow without stripes built in 2001
108 Yellow with stripes built in 2001
130 Sapphire Blue without stripes built in 2001
86 Sapphire Blue with stripes built in 2001
55 Sapphire Blue with Cognac interiors built in 2001
161 Sapphire Blue with black interiors built in 2001
31 Red ACR's without stripes built in 2001
29 Red ACR's with stripes built in 2001
38 Yellow ACR's without stripes built in 2001
51 Yellow ACR's with stripes built in 2001
28 Sapphire Blue ACR's without stripes built in 2001
49 Sapphire Blue ACR's with stripes built in 2001
4 (FOUR) ACR's built without the Comfort Group (stereo &amp; A/C) in 2001
91 Red without stripes built in 2002
41 Red with stripes built in 2002 (not including 326 Final Editions)
21 Red with Cognac interiors built in 2002
83 Yellow without stripes built in 2002
37 Yellow with stripes built in 2002
121 Graphite without stripes built in 2002
60 Graphite with stripes built in 2002
15 Graphite with Cognac interiors built in 2002
166 Graphite with black interiors built in 2002
28 Red ACR's without stripes built in 2002
17 Red ACR's with stripes built in 2002
34 Final Edition ACR's built in 2002
14 Yellow ACR's without stripes built in 2002
26 Yellow ACR's with stripes built in 2002
17 Graphite ACR's without stripes built in 2002
22 Graphite ACR's with stripes built in 2002
8 (EIGHT) ACR's built without the Comfort Group (stereo &amp; A/C) in 2002
1 (yes, ONE) Blue ACR with stripes built in 2002 (raffle car)

SRT-10
1 (yes, ONE) Red with guitar graphics built in 2003 (raffle car)
1 (yes, ONE) Yellow with stripes built in 2004 (raffle car)
1 (yes, ONE) Dark red with flames built in 2004 (raffle car)
50 Yellow with black wheels, hood stripe built in 2005 (VCA Editions)

Now while this is a LOT of statistics (thanks Jay!), it further proves the point: If you own a Gen I or Gen II, the chances are good that yours is part of a pretty rare group. However if you own an SRT-10 and didn't win it in a raffle, welcome to a very large club indeed...

NOTE: Of course when I say "built in" I should be saying "built for" those model years, such as 2005. However I am not going back to edit it all!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Chris you missed the one blue with no stripe 1997 RT/10.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Chris you missed the one blue with no stripe 1997 RT/10.

No I didn't, you had better check again...

 

[GR8_ASP]

Good trick Chris. That was one I knew well as a friend was the original purchaser who purchased it with a little arm twisting applied by Jim Holden.

 

[David]

SRT-10 has a cup holder.

 

[womsterr]

Craigster is probably sitting in his high chair glouting over the responses to his nonsensical fire starting thread. Maybe a little more supervision by his caretakers would curtail some of his jackassery.

Here here Snake. I haven't been around the board a long time but I know a troll when I see one. Some people like to troll on the internet from their High School library after reading their entire knowledge of the Viper from the Library's subscription of Car and Driver...

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Craigster is probably sitting in his high chair glouting over the responses to his nonsensical fire starting thread. Maybe a little more supervision by his caretakers would curtail some of his jackassery.

Here here Snake. I haven't been around the board a long time but I know a troll when I see one. Some people like to troll on the internet from their High School library after reading their entire knowledge of the Viper from the Library's subscription of Car and Driver...

Troll.. that's a good one, check my post count.

I was just making a post for the sense of discussion, I figured it would detract from all the SRT recall threads...

Serioulsy what am I so hard up about? I can drive a Viper anytime I want to. I am overly critical of this car because I want DC to do a damn better job next time. If I didn't give a $hit I wouldn't post anything.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Constructive criticism could be beneficial and lead toward improvement.Destructive criticism rarely leads to improvement. In general I do not see any constructive aspects to your critiques.

 

[womsterr]

Troll.. that's a good one, check my post count.

I was just making a post for the sense of discussion, I figured it would detract from all the SRT recall threads...

Seriously what am I so hard up about? I can drive a Viper anytime I want to. I am overly critical of this car because I want DC to do a damn better job next time. If I didn't give a $hit I wouldn't post anything.

I could take you at your word IF it weren't for the fact of all your previous posts. I see your post count. Just seems to be a lot of s**t stirring.

Some day when your older daddy will buy you a Viper and everything will be cool.

I won't post any further. Now..where's that iggy button.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Constructive criticism could be beneficial and lead toward improvement.Destructive criticism rarely leads to improvement. In general I do not see any constructive aspects to your critiques.

squeaky wheel gets the grease, nobody is gonna listen unless you stand up and SHOUT

and to the newbie, you crack me up.

 

[luc]

Interesting thread.

The SRT-10 is a great car but is missing what made the RT10 and GTS instant classics : STYLE.

I you look through the past, iconic or classic cars ALWAYS have a rare combination of power and style.

having only one of those 2 is not enough.

Luc 00GTS

 

[Early93Viper]

I love my Gen I viper but if any of you guys want to trade me for a SRT-10 please email me as soon as possible at [email protected].


There is something I just don't understand with this forum:
Why there is so much trash talk on the Viper. Not just the Gen IIIs but just the other day I had to defend my Gen I from being attacked. I mean seriously it seems as though I have to go to a corvette or Lamborghini forum to hear positive comments on the Viper. The truth of the matter is that the Dodge Viper is one of the most legendary names in car history. Starting with the GEN I and carried on with the GEN III. Even though it goes against everything I know about customers and business in general. The fact of the matter is that if people can't see what a great car the viper is, if there to busy buying technology packed Mercedes that make you feel numb while you drive them, then there’s something wrong with people not with the viper.

 

[Hans Christian]

Early,

You said it

 

[NOMERCY]

There is something I just don't understand with this forum:
Why there is so much trash talk on the Viper. Not just the Gen IIIs but just the other day I had to defend my Gen I from being attacked. I mean seriously it seems as though I have to go to a corvette or Lamborghini forum to hear positive comments on the Viper.

It is pretty sad that a Viper owner can not feel at home on a Viper site. So far, for me, the "Viper Experience" is overrated. Lots of bad Karma here ...

I am done with this place for awhile ....

 

[BadVenm]

First off, the bashing is just two groups of people with different and varied tastes. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have went back and forth on the SRT. And I have driven two so far.

I still think the biggest failure of the DC group is what they did to the looks. The SRT does not wow and floor most people like the Gen 1 and Gen 2's do, again most not all. At a recent car show there was one SRT-10 and 4 Gen 2's and no one even noticed the Gen 2 cars. They all flocked to the SRT-10. So different strokes for different folks. I will add that a DC/SRT employee told me at VOI 8 that they feel they missed the mark with the SRT in looks. He went on to say they know the Coupe must be widely accepted to pull things back together.

The SRT has better numbers, no question. 505 CI, 500 HP, 5XX Trq. But the SRT can be driven by my grandmother. However in the hands of an average person the Gen 2's are deadly. The raw racecar feel, unrefined and no frills, non-luxary interior, non-driver friendly response is what made the Viper what it once used to be and what I love about the Gen 2's. The lack of most of that and the refinement in the SRT is the big drawback for me and my individual taste.

In one post on page one of this thread there are a few statements I want to make comments about that reflect my taste and thoughts, just my opinion. No flame intended and they are not even directed at the author. Just some comments I think that have two sides.

The SRT-10 is a better car.
In HP and other numbers, yes. In drive and set of the pants feel, no, not IMO.


I hate the bashing of the SRT-10 by Gen I and GenII owners (and a 16 year old non-viper owner from Canada)
Agreed, sometimes the difference in opinion turns ugly and it's not necessary.


However, I wouldn't trade my SRT-10 for a Gen I or II
I go back and forth. One day I want a SRT, the next I wouldn't trade one of my Gen 2's even up.


and I would bet that most Gen I and Gen II owners would gladly trade for a Gen III if money was not an issue.
I don't think money is the issue for most. Quite often you see Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners that have way more money in their cars than the cost of a Gen 3. And many of us own more than one Gen 1 or Gen 2. I did until just 3 days ago. (time for a new toy, and some days I think it might be a Gen 3)


The opinion of some who think the SRT-10 doesn't look good doesn't affect me. Especially those who haven't driven one.
I don't think driving one will change the way someone feels about the way one of them looks. Which is not bad IMO.


The truth is that Gen I and II prices are also down. They are not selling well either.
I would challenge that. I just sold one of my Gen 2's three days ago and it fetched $70,000.00. I bought it with cash, owed nothing on it, so I could go out and buy a Gen 3 and have change left over. (A Lamborghini Gallardo is my lead choice to fill the empty spot in the garage)


The market for the SRT-10 is even smaller than the Gen I and II market because the higher price means fewer people can buy it
Again, I don't think price is the issue. When most car lines build a new updated model the owners of the previous model flock to the new one. Dodge assumed that would happen here. It didn't. Most Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners say it is beacuse of the looks more than anything else. Why would so many keep a lesser HP car? It isn't money, IMO. Think about the money so many Gen1's and Gen 2's fetched over sticker. Many of those cars went for more than current Gen 3's. So I don't think it's an issue of Gen 1 and Gen 2 owners being poor, broke kids with no money.

I think Chris is on to something. Think about how Harley Davidson controlled production and for years there were waiting lists and over sticker prices were paid. Then HD turned up production and those days of waiting and over sticker prices are over. Now HD's are stacked up on show room floor's. Sounds like Dodge was and is following suit of HD.

 

[Early93Viper]

There is something I just don't understand with this forum:
Why there is so much trash talk on the Viper. Not just the Gen IIIs but just the other day I had to defend my Gen I from being attacked. I mean seriously it seems as though I have to go to a corvette or Lamborghini forum to hear positive comments on the Viper.

It is pretty sad that a Viper owner can not feel at home on a Viper site. So far, for me, the "Viper Experience" is overrated. Lots of bad Karma here ...

I am done with this place for awhile ....

Don't Get me wrong I love the site. Great people, good discussions.......just don't understand why we can't talk better about are cars.