so if the SRT-10 is a better car...

[SnakeEye]

It seems rather strange that the VCA does not take a more proactive approach to ensure that (all) 'goodwill ambassadors' in a leadership role within its organization not only support past generations of the Viper but also champion the current model with equal zeal. I wonder how this is working for them.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

i think that people who do not own a viper should not be allowed to join the viperclub of america. just like i think people who do not own a vette should not be allowed to join the corvette club, etc, etc, etc. get my point! on that other viper site (**********), half the people on that site don't even own vipers and most of the ones that do are such jerks and ego maniacs that they give the viper a real black eye. unfortunately people like this are why the viper gets stereotyped as the car for people with short mans complex, etc.

oh yea, just for the record as far as viper 'coupes' are concerned i like the gen 2's looks better than gen 3's. concerning '*******' vipers i like the looks of the gen 3 better than the gen 1 and 2. so go figure?

"ego maniacs"


***, kettle, black

 

[SnakeEye]

..."ego maniacs" -Craig201MPH

Craigster--it's quite apparent that you only wish you had an ego (pride in oneself; self-esteem), don't let it bother you that others do. Maybe it's time you increase the duration and frequency of your therapy sessions and spend a little less time (trolling) posting nonsense on the VCA. It'd be a good start for you anyway.
Attaboy...now run along.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

It seems rather strange that the VCA does not take a more proactive approach to ensure that (all) 'goodwill ambassadors' in a leadership role within its organization not only support past generations of the Viper but also champion the current model with equal zeal. I wonder how this is working for them.

I responded to this on your other thread, but since this thread seems to be the root of your concerns, here you go: From what I could see (and I apologize if I missed anybody), there were three VCA officers that posted in this thread. All three were constructive and shared their opinions (good, bad, and noncommittal). Most importantly, ALL THREE OWN SRT-10's! Now if that isn't "championing" the current model, I don't know what is. After all, put your money ($80,000+ worth) where your mouth is.

I would also add that, while I can't speak for all the officers (and for which they are grateful), most of them have their very own opinions that may not always support the party (Dodge) line. Travesty? No, reality. Let's take me for example. Do I think the SRT-10 is the greatest car ever made? Nope. Close, but not perfect. What would I change? The looks - and not a lot. Make it closer to the original GTS-R concept (similar to the Comp Coupe). Do I think that the GTS looks more exotic? Yep. If you connect a line between the GTS and the Corvette, the SRT-10 would be a lot closer to the Vette side of the looks department. And guess what? A LOT, and I mean a TON of people prefer that slightly "less exotic" look!

So does this mean I don't support the SRT-10? Well, I have bought two of them brand new - how many other "detractors" can say that? The SRT-10 is an absolutely kick-ass car and I truly love ours. Trust me when I tell you that this yellow version with the black accents draws looks and positive comments even MORE than my GTS ever did. Seriously. Heck, BadVenm has mentioned a couple times about the car show we attended where the four Gen I/II's were passed by as everybody gravitated to the SRT-10. And that included a yellow RT/10 with black stripes and two of the best looking GTS's on the planet. Yet the SRT (mine) was the star. But dang it, that doesn't mean that I can't have an opinion, right?

If you know me even a little bit, you know that my automotive heart and soul is devoted to the Viper and the Club that brings those owners together. I want the Viper to sell for many, many years to come. Towards that goal, I offer my often fact-based opinions as to what can help continue those sales. In case you missed what started this whole thread, the plant shut down for the first time EVER due to lack of sales. No amount of "goodwill" will correct that, unless Joe is offering to buy up the excess as our membership renewal gifts for 2005...

 

[Y2K5SRT]

And as long as I am still awake (barely), here are my suggestions for keeping the Viper sales healthy:

1. Offer a few options such as interior trim, stripes, and maybe even those Mopar wheels. Suddenly you will take three identical flavors and introduce a LOT of variations. Many people want to buy a Viper to be different. Let them.

2. Kill the special editions unless there is a reason to celebrate something (LeMans). By announcing a new Mamba flavor every few months, you are rendering previous versions less meaningful. The white was unique because it was a 200-issue color for that year. While the black and silver are undoubtedly beautiful (if not downright gorgeous in black), you basically offered an interior option on a standard colored car. Then you REALLY went off the deep end by going the opposite direction and announcing "VCA Edition Yellow" as a production color - couldn't even wait one model year. Nope, creating 200 of the same thing isn't creative and doesn't give it that "special order" feel when you are able to choose a few options yourself (see #1 above). The special editions obviously have little meaning to DC (VCA Yellow), so why the charade? All it does is make the company look more desperate for sales.

3. Horsepower - and soon. There is not a Viper owner (or future Viper owner) on this planet that wants the Z06 to challenge it as King of the Hill. While we can live with an overpriced Ford being in the same league, it's because it too is an "exotic" as defined by very low production. But letting a mass-produced Chevy go toe-to-toe with the Viper is a big mistake. The C6 looks more like the SRT than ever, and if the Z06 pops similar performance, it becomes very difficult to justify the extra tens of thousands of dollars for the Snake. Joe's idea (which I secretly pray is more than that) is a good one: Offer the Viper with a standard "upgraded" engine that can be retrofitted to the prior SRT-10's if the owners so choose to buy it. Kind of like the various "Stage" packages already available for the Neon SRT-4 from Mopar Performance. Make the new Viper (and SRT-10 Coupe) come standard with "Stage III" (let's say 600+ HP) and that same Stage III kit (blower?) available to all. I would be willing to bet that it would not only erase a good portion of those supply days, but might even bolster the somewhat soft used market as well.

4. Design. We already know the Coupe is on the near horizon. What we don't know is what it will look like. Sure, sure, we saw a nice mockup in Dallas and were very impressed (and grateful) that Dodge gave us first blush. But that doesn't mean that we fell in love with it. Indeed, it still has that same "challenge" that some have with the SRT: It has to grow on you. Granted, DC listened and put some of the GTS and even Comp Coupe styling cues on it. Namely a GTS rear end (even the same taillights) surrounded by the Comp Coupe "outer shell". Oops. The right idea, but not necessarily the best execution. I think pretty much every person agrees that the first GTS-R concept was a winner. Trim the bottom side a bit to give it street clearance and with a few other small tweaks you are back in the gold - especially with 600 or so ponies under the hood.

Whew! I am tired and am outta here. Feel free to debate any and all of these points as you like. Heck, I may clarify or maybe even change my position on some of them after I get some sleep. But I doubt it.

 

[AlbertFattal]

Wow this is getting out of hand

 

[SylvanSRT]

The limited edtions serve two purposes IMO,

1. they creat more demand for a car that is not selling as well as DC would like. Mazda Miata and Corvette are the kings of special editions. The "badge and sticker" specials do not do anything for me, especially at a premium in price.

2. they are devices to increase the price and profit of the cars, without any real development or changes to the platform or hardware.

I think that in the 14 model years of production there have only been a handful of real options offered on these cars anyway

1. tonneau cover for RT's
2. stripes for the GTS
3. ACR option for GTS(only)
4. hardtop for RT(some years it was standard)
5. Connelly(sp?) leather(congac), tan in early cars

THATS IT AS FAR AS MEMORY SERVES ME CORRECTLY(ok there might be a few more but nothing that significant)

I do know that a big reason is to keep the number of production possibilites down. But PLEASE give us some performance options Dodge and especially SRT are performance divisions. Let us buy twin turbos or a supercharger option, choose interior colors/materials. Most people here would spend a little extra to personalize a car from the factory ala: AMG, caddilac V series, M power in BMW, Audisport S versions, Porsche x-50 packages as well as the custom department from Zuffenhausen.

PLEASE STEP UP TO THE PLATE DC!!! give us some real and worthy choices to make NOT just "what color do you want it?" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have more options/choices buying a $2.50 happy meal from McDonald's!!

 

[dirk989]

As you can gather from my other posts I think they got the look of the SRT-10 right. I don't think it looks like a Vette and I do think it looks exotic. A lot of people agree with me.

I do think that if DC offered superchargers or turbo options then they'd sell like crazy. I know I'd buy one. Instead I'll be looking at installing a Roe or Paxton over the winter.

Dirk

 

[Y2K5SRT]

As you can gather from my other posts I think they got the look of the SRT-10 right. I don't think it looks like a Vette and I do think it looks exotic. A lot of people agree with me.

Don't kid yourself, a TON of people agree with you. Unfortunately those same people aren't lining up to buy the car - just ask the folks at CAAP. We will agree to disagree on this one, as the car certainly took some styling cues from the Vette and now the C6 has returned the favor by going with similar headlights. They are by no means identical, but I can tell you that more than a few people would ask me if my black SRT was the new Corvette.

Now remember how much I love my SRT-10 and please, please understand that I am offering nothing more than constructive criticism here. With that in mind, here is much of what put more than a few Viper owners in a tizzy:

You must be registered for see images

So what do you see? You see a car with some pretty outrageous lines on the left. Curvacious, ****, and most definitely exotic. On the right sits my pride and joy (and it is), which doesn't quite pull that off. No real curves, not as much sex appeal, and kind of blocky overall. For a car that I am guessing carried the highest sticker of ANY Viper to date ($89,995), some folks want a little more of that audacious look. Don't get me wrong, the SRT-10 is a GREAT looking car or I wouldn't be driving one. And the car is much more of a performer in every single category, a fact that really did seal the deal for me when I ordered my 2003. I wouldn't trade my SRT-10 for any Gen I/Gen II on the planet. PERIOD. But that doesn't mean it is perfect.

Oh yeah, and that RT/10 pictured above? No "special edition" necessary: By having the option to choose your interiors that particular car is one of only 99 on the planet in steel gray with a cognac interior. And one of only 278 steel gray RT/10's EVER made. That has a tremendous appeal both as a new car and in the used market. When you have literally thousands of the exact same car to choose from, the market will suffer. It doesn't make it any less of a car, but it does put your plant at idle because there aren't enough buyers...

 

[don527]

They are by no means identical, but I can tell you that more than a few people would ask me if my black SRT was the new Corvette.

i think that one statement says it all... to say more than a few (IMO more than one or two would be enough for me) tells you that the Viper has lost some of it's mojo that the gen1/gen2 had created in style and image. No one would ever mistaken the previous gens for anything else but a Viper.

as a side note... saw a yellow VCA SRT10 in boca on my way home this afternoon... sw 18th turning into 441... have to say that's the best color combo i've seen on the SRT10 with the black chrome wheels. up close it's an impressive car.

Don
'01 Z06

 

[GR8_ASP]

Okay, who who has or had a Gen I/II hasn't had someone ask if that was a Stealth? I have many times. All this means is that those that are not very knowledgeable can make a mistake. What does that prove? I will bet that Lambos are mistaken to be Ferraris, Ferraris as Mazeratis, etc. I don't think that means anything.

 

[SnakeEye]

... but I can tell you that more than a few people would ask me if my black SRT was the new Corvette. -Y2K5SRT

Interesting...maybe it's just a local thing. lol

 

[RavenFan_94]

Okay, who who has or had a Gen I/II hasn't had someone ask if that was a Stealth? I have many times. All this means is that those that are not very knowledgeable can make a mistake. What does that prove? I will bet that Lambos are mistaken to be Ferraris, Ferraris as Mazeratis, etc. I don't think that means anything.

Thank you. Exactly!

 

[PRVT JET]

The SRT is a bad ass car, it looks 100 times better in person. I will get one to go with my GTS. I wouldn't take craig to serious, if his dad adds a SRT to his collection, he will learn to love it.

 

[Makara]

Do I think that the GTS looks more exotic? Yep. If you connect a line between the GTS and the Corvette, the SRT-10 would be a lot closer to the Vette side of the looks department. And guess what? A LOT, and I mean a TON of people prefer that slightly "less exotic" look!

Then let them buy vettes. Don't make the viper a 10 cylinder vette. I'm sure there are guys that want a car to get better MPG, carry four people, not be very loud, and have an automatic too...

 

[Finally got it !]

At 21 I was not on a computer all hours of the night typing horsesh!t about cars I do not own.... Go out, drink, get laid, do something..
Come back in 10 years when you have a Gen1 ...

 

[cstegall]

Craig...Great thread my friend. The SRT forum has always seemed to have its yawn appeal and it seemed that the milktoast design of the car was even rubbing off into the forum...but you have singlehandedly revived it and certainly got my attention. Lots of views and a bunch of emotional posts in favor of the SRT...very stimulating. So...thanks Craig and I for one have always known you as an extremely passionate Viper enthusiast...and for all of you who pick on him cause he doesn't own one...well...he knows that anytime he comes to DFW he becomes an owner with me.

Nice job Craig.

Clark

 

[Finally got it !]

and for all of you who pick on him cause he doesn't own one...well...he knows that anytime he comes to DFW he becomes an owner with me.

Nice job Craig.

Clark

It has nothing to do with picking on him. I too think he adds valuable info and or opinions to the boards. BUT there is a noun spelled tact. And Craig lacks that and thus rubs people the wrong way. I am sure he does not speak the way he writes when person to person. I think sometimes a keyboard changes people....

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Okay, since I reserved the right to clarify in my last post, here it is: Regarding the reference to my black SRT being "mistaken" for a Corvette, I will agree with all of the above:

1. There are a lot of folks that wouldn't know a Viper if it ran them over. Given that I had one of the first SRT's on the road in Kansas City, having a few "confused" folks wasn't surprising. Disappointing, but not terribly surprising. I will say that the first time I ever stopped for gas the clerk asked if it was a Corvette. I stewed about that all the way home.

2. Certainly living in the boonies can lead to more cases of "mistaken identity". When I brought home a new Lexus LS400 several years ago a neighbor asked if "it was a one a them thar new T-Birds..." I kid you not. And YES, I did have one (and only one) person ask if my GTS was a Corvette. Go figure.

Now having felt guilty for dissing my baby even a little bit here on the forums, I took the SRT-10 out for some driving tonight. The bride stayed at home so that the car and I could spend a little "quality time" together. Lots of honks, waves, thumbs ups - and even what I first thought was a cop but turned out to be a flash camera getting about 10 shots of me driving down the road. I may offer some constructive criticism (and with the very best intentions), but let me once again state that I LOVE THIS CAR!

Over and out.

PS. Agreed on what Clark said about Craig...

 

[SRT10]

They are by no means identical, but I can tell you that more than a few people would ask me if my black SRT was the new Corvette.

i think that one statement says it all... to say more than a few (IMO more than one or two would be enough for me) tells you that the Viper has lost some of it's mojo that the gen1/gen2 had created in style and image. No one would ever mistaken the previous gens for anything else but a Viper.

HA HA HA...

You must be registered for see images

Before and after a trip to BALCO!

 

[RavenFan_94]

Not that I think either one of those black cars look at all like each other. For the sake of the full disclosure, I feel that the SRT is everything I ever wanted in an American super car. Proud to own one.

I think that most of us would agree that the Corvette is a great car for the money. I, probably like most here, developed a sour taste in my mouth regarding the Corvette, not because of the car, the but the company which the car keeps. Owners, included. It is comments from Gen I & II folks on the SRT forums that makes me feel the same way about the older Vipers. Shame.

A little "hey, great car", "hey, you too" amoungst Viper owners never hurt anybody. Bashing your own is just bad karma.

 

[MbnViper]

the GEN I & II shocked the world, GEN III only shocked there owners.

don't get me wrong i love all viper, i drove the New SRT-10 and liked it and said to my self its not that bad and it feels Viper, but i know it doesn't look as nice and **** as a Gen I,II viper and its never will, two of us went to starbucks me and my friend with his SRT-10, i wont start this but the GTS got all the attention, a GEN III can just in one case a Coupe that looks like this:

You must be registered for see images

 

[YouWish]

SRT10:Get a grip...

 

[garolittle]

I fear for the future of the Viper. However, I am confident that Dodge will come through with a world-class, Vette-killing, *****-dropping, teeth-rattling, eye-popping, jaw-dropping SRT Coupe which will set the automotive world on fire. Long live the Dodge Viper.

 

[kaval]

PRVT JET When did you come around?

SRT10 nice low blow

 

[drdaveSRT]

bottom line, if some/most of us didn't have the type of recall work that seems, well, !#@$%!#%$! UP, then all available vipers would be sold. It is simply a confidence issue.

The SRT 10 blows away my 99 RT in every category except styling(not that bad though) and once again ties it for lack of safety(roll over). You're not looking at the car when truly appreciating it. Even if it were really ugly, it would drive the same.

The BRAKES are the best safety improvement.
The TOP is the best convenience improvement.
And those two guys did survive the Euro gumball after levitating and flipping at 140(w' a roll bar).

I do miss my loose RT, as I currently miss my arrow rebuilin'SRT. Please, for the holidays....

If the new GTSRT10 doesn't have the comp body, less weight, lots more HP, reliability, etc, .... they will sit too.

Hey DC, wake up. Read these posts, damm it.

BTW, if DC does all the goodies, tuners are out of business.

And.... Ihave to say this and it will hurt some feelings,....




but,...











MAMBA SHMAMBA. Give me a body kit, roll bar, HP, another 100 things to be worthy of badging. Mambas(snakes) everywhere must be getting dissed by cobras and the like.

For @ 400 bucks my interior has all the brushed aluminum goodies. How long until that vivid red interior fades?SPF?

And for the Mamba price diff, I am having a Complete Belanger header and exhaust pkg. Listen for me, I'll still be far away but approaching quickly. You'll feel it too.

All of us are driving the best car out there,...A VIPER. All are cool in their own way, just like their owners.

Remember, the MAN wins if the people remain divided.

 

[Guyver1]

Seriously guys, the GTS/R Concept was nice... but I wouldn't want it to be anywhere near what the next Coupe looks like.

You must be registered for see images

The **** is waaay too big, and its so low, to the point of looking like the Jolly Green Giant stepped on the cabin and squished it.

Furthermore, it looks waaaay too boyracerish. Get rid of the roof scoop, ground effects, that atrocious rear wing, chop about a foot and a half off its rear-end, and you might be talking.

The Comp Coupe is a much better starting point, yes, but frankly, it still has that gigantic ****.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Agree on the GTS/R, especially from that angle. I think the idea is not so much as to retain the outside "flares" on the hind end, but make the overall lines of the car similar. Look at that same picture and imagine the car without the straight pieces around the back, including the lower part. Keep the "duck wing" like the original GTS, but lose the rest of the surrounding body work on the tail. THAT is what I believe many people are asking for...

 

[TomSlick]

Seriously guys, the GTS/R Concept was nice... but I wouldn't want it to be anywhere near what the next Coupe looks like.

You must be registered for see images

The **** is waaay too big, and its so low, to the point of looking like the Jolly Green Giant stepped on the cabin and squished it.

Furthermore, it looks waaaay too boyracerish. Get rid of the roof scoop, ground effects, that atrocious rear wing, chop about a foot and a half off its rear-end, and you might be talking.

The Comp Coupe is a much better starting point, yes, but frankly, it still has that gigantic ****.

I couldn't disagree more. That car is more what everybody wants than anything else that's out there. It brings back the emotion the Viper first evoked. It is what the SRT-10 was based on, so it's the logical version for the coupe. I would be happy with the car the way it is. It's the most exotic car I've ever seen, and I would bet I'm not the only one that feels that way.

 

[Guyver1]

Y2K5SRT, exactly my point.

I think the Comp Coupe would be a much better base, since it seems much more "proportional."

The GTS/R Concept, is actually frighteningly long. Some 193 inches, or about a foot and a half longer than the SRT-10.

I'd much rather see a design with lines that evokes the feel of a Viper, than to sprinkle louvres and intakes and ground effects everywhere to make it look mean and be the 133t V1p3Rz0RZ!!!11.

Look at the originaly GTS. Yes, it looks like it'd rip your throat out if you rev'ed at it, but it also has a very very clean body. No unecessary vents or ducts just for the sake of making it look "mean".

Look at the last generation of Mustang. It had ponies and "MUSTANG" plastered all over it, because... well... it didn't really evoke any of the feelings of an old Mustang. But the new '05 Mustangs don't need all those ducts and intakes and things. They just LOOK like a Mustang should. I don't know if I'm getting my point across any.

I guess that's my main nitpick, lol. In my eyes, DC's attempt at that SRT-10 Coupe Concept was much closer to what I'd expect from a "road" Viper coupe than anything else. While it was flawed in many ways, it went in the right direction.