so if the SRT-10 is a better car...

[Craig 201 MPH]

Other examples of "Pulling an SRT-10"

You must be registered for see images

whoops guess GM shouldn't have hoped they could ride a great name and lineage into profitability..

I have reason to beleive the new "charger" may suffer however it seems unlikely especially if they keep pricing realistic.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Oooh, MAN are you making it hard to say your comments are constructive! While I would certainly say that the SRT-10 styling was not as "in your face" as the previous generations in some respects, I would most definitely say that the lineage is obvious. It isn't THAT watered down by a long shot. The GTO is the most pathetic revival of a badge since the Japanese "Nova". Granted, plenty of horsepower (400 for 2005), but looks like a Honda with a Pontiac grill. Yuck.

And don't get me started on the Charger. I love the idea of reviving the name and the Hemi behind it. But taking a four-door design (Chrysler 300) and making it two doors just to sell it as a Dodge seems a bit much in my humble opinion. Hopefully the price points will make it sell like hot cakes, but the styling I have seen in magazine mock-ups leaves me very wanting - especially with such a great name as the Charger.

 

[Bwright]

There is something I just don't understand with this forum:
Why there is so much trash talk on the Viper. Not just the Gen IIIs but just the other day I had to defend my Gen I from being attacked. I mean seriously it seems as though I have to go to a corvette or Lamborghini forum to hear positive comments on the Viper.

It is pretty sad that a Viper owner can not feel at home on a Viper site. So far, for me, the "Viper Experience" is overrated. Lots of bad Karma here ...

I am done with this place for awhile ....

That's why even though I am the chief automotive analyst for a multi-billion dollar investment firm I just watch discussions like this from the sidelines. Disturbing number of inaccurate analysis and comments from people who should know better. I guess what they don't know or are afraid to hear won't hurt them. At least not yet. Some things, however, are sadly inevitable.

By the way, I still remember a remarkable video of a 1/4 mile run you made in a white Z06 (at least I think it was you). Nice going. Hope you're loving your new Turbo. Great car with a storied past.

 

[SnakeEye]

Other examples of "Pulling an SRT-10"

You must be registered for see images

... -Craig201MPH

Oooh, MAN are you making it hard to say your comments are constructive!
... -Y2K5SRT

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Oooh, MAN are you making it hard to say your comments are constructive! While I would certainly say that the SRT-10 styling was not as "in your face" as the previous generations in some respects, I would most definitely say that the lineage is obvious. It isn't THAT watered down by a long shot. The GTO is the most pathetic revival of a badge since the Japanese "Nova". Granted, plenty of horsepower (400 for 2005), but looks like a Honda with a Pontiac grill. Yuck.

And don't get me started on the Charger. I love the idea of reviving the name and the Hemi behind it. But taking a four-door design (Chrysler 300) and making it two doors just to sell it as a Dodge seems a bit much in my humble opinion. Hopefully the price points will make it sell like hot cakes, but the styling I have seen in magazine mock-ups leaves me very wanting - especially with such a great name as the Charger.

The fire was dying down the GTO comparison is a stretch but what the hell...

 

[VIPER D]

I think that craig needs a ride in a "real" srt that would make him a "born again srt believer" Hey Craig fly out to ny and I will take you for a blast of your life.


vd..

 

[SilverSnake]

VIPER D,

Don't you need to ask his parents if he can go?

 

[SoFlaSRT]

I think that craig needs a ride in a "real" srt that would make him a "born again srt believer" Hey Craig fly out to ny and I will take you for a blast of your life.


vd..

Hey vd, can you make that a "one way" ride for Craig?

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I think that craig needs a ride in a "real" srt that would make him a "born again srt believer" Hey Craig fly out to ny and I will take you for a blast of your life.


vd..

Grand nationals are fast too, still doesn't mean they aren't ugly as hell.


























the is no disputing it is a fast car, it just doesn't look as good as it could have.

 

[SilverSnake]

Craig,

Hope you don't mind me asking, what do you drive as a daily driver?

Robert

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

thing is I don't have much of a choice, still in college paying my own way. My turbo daytona does it's job just fine for now. school, job then car. I don't get $hit all handed to me and I like it that way.

 

[SilverSnake]

I can respect that. You should understand that some of us can finaly get a viper so when you make statements that the srt-10 isn't a real viper alot of us can't accept that. The GTS was a nice car but when it came time to buy a brand new viper the srt-10 was the choice. As for the style it does grow on you.

Robert

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Thing is I can't understand why people care what others have to say. If you are happy with your purchase what should you care what some overopinionated kid has to say? I am critical of the car because I want it to last more than 3 generations and when DC brings the current car to the streets which has a strong (yet small) following I am pretty disappointed that they are doing nothing to preserve the future of the car. The viper was never about comprimises but zee germans don't understand that. With the magnum and 300 now being the cash cow for DC they really need to revisit what the Viper did for the company and get back on track.

That and RACE the damn thing. FYI DRIFTING is NOT racing!

 

[GR8_ASP]

Craig, you are a stupid ass. If you think your complaints (those of a teenage non potential buyer) are going to drive change at DC you are a lunatic. All they do is drive current owners mad (at you). That is all. Your incessant criticisms have taken me to the edge of the cliff. They have no value. None. All they do is incite. I think you need to speak with a professional as you must have better things to do with your life than to try to convince people that shelled out $80+k that they made a bad decision. Not likely that those that have bought one will agree with you.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

I don't think I alone am going to drive change at DC, however if you would pull your head out of the sand you cannot deny that I am alone in this, if I was the SRT would be selling. Tell where where in the history of the Viper did they ever have a plant stoppage due to the car having massive inventories??? There is no denying that this car has been a failure in terms of hitting it's target and no mamba edition or red brake calipers is going to fix that.

I don't need to convince people not to shell out 80K for the car, they're doing a great job spending somewhere else on their own.

Please refute my point you can't. The car is not selling and those are the plain and simple facts. YES the car has some passionate owners however in this segment people are spending thier $$ somewhere else. Would this be the case if the car had a roof? curvier styling? more mamba editions? green brakes????

I may not have the $$$ (now) to buy the car, that's not really the point now is it? Dodge has satisfied the current people with 80K to spend on the car, now the only remaing problem (a whole 200 days of it) is finding other people with 80K to step up and spend the $$ on a bland car. Why buy an SRT when you can spend half on a GTS, put 10K into mods and laugh at the guy in the vert who can't even drive on the track because dodge didn't even put real roll hoops in their "race car" boy that plastic looks safe! Get real DC.

Where does the motivation to buy an SRT come from? The advertising? The racing program? The great press it recieves? It seems that SRT owners will reply with "because I like it" to which I ask, why the hell do you care then what other people think? I have explained time and time again why I say what I say and why I have the stance I do, you have the amazing freedom weather or not you choose to read that or not.

From a performance standpoint the car is marginally better except in braking where it blows everything away (PVO have a cookie for that one) it is just in a plain wrapping when compared to what it came from. Is it still outrageous looking? when compared to a camry yes it is.

Chill out and have a beer I'm not going to shut up anytime soon. I know DC reads these boards and should really pay attention to the criticism and suggestions made. Not specifically mine as what I want is something that would be considered unfeasable among the product development and beancounters at DC nowadays. This is the cheapest, most accessable focus group they'll ever have. There is a lot of value in these forums for manufacturers in terms of product development. I bet there are people from DC that post as SRT people just to see what people will react to (good work on the new radio BTW, just what the car needed)

I mean if it wasn't for this place the SRT wouldn't have those ******** edgy fenders and badass raised spoiler! WOWWWW!!!!!

Put a roof on it and race it.

 

[PRVT JET]

Craig, honestly, you do go out of your way to say something negative about the Srt. I'm still surprised you didn't post a picture of s2000 on this thread yet. It's all about your taste, I mean you say the SRT is ugly, and than you start to talk about how the new volvo s40 is a kick a$$ car. It has been 2 years, just let these people enjoy their car.

 

[PMB NY]

Hey DC - THANK YOU!!! I love my new SRT.

I love the way it looks especially.

Thanks again DC.

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Craig, honestly, you do go out of your way to say something negative about the Srt. I'm still surprised you didn't post a picture of s2000 on this thread yet. It's all about your taste, I mean you say the SRT is ugly, and than you start to talk about how the new volvo s40 is a kick a$$ car. It has been 2 years, just let these people enjoy their car.

The S40 and Viper are two completely different cars with two entirely different purposes. One is meant to appeal to the masses as it is a mass produced car, trying to draw a comparison between the two is apples and oranges. ONe is a halo car, one is meant o make nothing but $$.

I would really feel sorry for the individuals who could finally enjoy their car if I stopped posting. I sincerely hope that isn't the case.

I didn't post an S2000 picture because yes even that is getting old and I've decided to resort to other means of relaying my opinion.

I don't pretend to know at all, I just voice my opinion, then we all "discuss" it, which is the nature of this section. I wouldn't post this if there was a "SRT-10 and VGX circle ****" section. That would be rude.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

...if you would pull your head out of the sand you cannot deny that I am alone in this

Hey, you said it...

(good work on the new radio BTW, just what the car needed)

I agree with this too! Us 2005 guys have got it made...

Craig, you know I am doing my best to hang with you on this issue, as I do agree with it to an extent (hopefully some of my posts make that obvious). However your point was made to DC many moons ago and now all you are doing is insulting the owners and nothing more. One of your battle cries has been "BRING US THE COUPE!" Now I know you didn't miss the chest-thumping when the first pics of the coupe from VOI appeared on v i p e r a l l e y . c o m (hey, that looks kinda cool). While it wasn't the mind-blower that some had hoped for, it definitely showed that DC was indeed listening to the owners - and heck, maybe even you.

The problem you have now is that your wishes are very close to being granted from all appearances. As a result, your posts achieve absolutely nothing other than to piss off the very owners for whom this forum was created. You know as well as I do that while we are all grown ups (well, almost all), that insulting somebody's pride and joy is not cool. Personally, I thinking looking down your nose at ANYBODY'S ride, even if it is a '94 4-door Accord with a giant wing and fourteen "Type R" badges, is just piss poor. People work hard (some harder than others) to buy what they drive and insulting them directly to their faces is just rude as hell. Especially in their house. Want to go dis the SRT in the Gen I/II forums? Have at it. But don't come to the one "sanctuary" where owners of these cars come to talk and then take a dump right in the living room. EVERYBODY knows your opinion - we got it. But at some point you started becoming the disheveled lunatic on the street corner shouting "THE END IS NEAR! THE END IS NEAR!"

I, perhaps above all others, respect your opinion and your right to preach it as you see fit. However you are becoming one of those things that even you don't care for too much, and that is a troll. We know the SRT isn't selling every car built (the cars that nobody ordered to begin with - cough, cough). But there are 2002's (even the vaunted GTS) that can still be found on a dealer's lot under MSO. And that was when they were building HALF as many. We have posted the possible reasons pretty much to death, many of which agree with you to some degree. Now all you are doing is insulting every single SRT owner here - no exception. Give it a rest, my friend.

Chris

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

Well [******] I can't compete with the T word.

I started this thread with the intent of discussing why the car isn't selling, if I would have posted this in the other section it would have just been moved here anyway. I'll be the first to admit I can't resist pushing some buttons...it's getting cold here not much else to do

Yes I want to see a coupe, I hope they build it (with a proper @ss) and don't water it down in the process or stuff a "HEMI" into it to fulfill every NASCAR fan's wet dream.

Like I've said over and over again, the car is a hell of a performer. It's still radical looking (especially in black) when compared to a lot of what else is out there. No need to discuss that again, the honest intent of this thread was to see why the car isn't selling, maybe differentiation is the answer..so why is the car constantly offered in 3 colors? is DC buying paint in bulk? I don't see what keeps them from opening up the color palette. I really hate to think that is the only way to move the car but what else is there to do? Personally I think a BRG SRT with a tan interior and tan top would be classy as hell.

Clearly firing someone like Wolfgang was a step in the right direction the next Z06 could put this car to death for good.

 

[doctorbob]

Great posts Chris......there are only so many people with the disposable income to buy an 85,000 dollar somewhat impractical car(Do not get me wrong, I have now owned four Vipers. My SRT has 30,000 miles and has criss-crossed most of the western United States). My Dodge dealer has two 2004 SRTs in stock and unwilling to take delivery of 2005s. DC improved their efficiency at building SRTs and built beyond demand. Maybe that is why DC is thinking of using the Viper frame to build a Chrysler product(see Joseph Houss's post on general Viper discussion) to compete with the Vette head to head. The Viper should be a limited production halo automobile with varying colors and interior options. Horsepower has and should be part of the allure of owning the car. The yellow VCA special edition car was neat but DC should not have followed up with race yellow as an option the same year. I have already verbally committed to the upcoming coupe but damn I hope Dodge is listening and planning something better than that concept car. Just my two cents on the subject.

 

[Snakester]

Seriously guys, the GTS/R Concept was nice... but I wouldn't want it to be anywhere near what the next Coupe looks like.

You must be registered for see images

The **** is waaay too big, and its so low, to the point of looking like the Jolly Green Giant stepped on the cabin and squished it.

Furthermore, it looks waaaay too boyracerish. Get rid of the roof scoop, ground effects, that atrocious rear wing, chop about a foot and a half off its rear-end, and you might be talking.

The Comp Coupe is a much better starting point, yes, but frankly, it still has that gigantic ****.

One thing that seems to be lost on the people who want to see the upcoming SRT-10 Coupe be a street legal Comp Coupe, is that the GTS/R was a concept car! Complete with 1" ground clearance, tractor trailer length, reduced visibility and headroom from such a low show car roof, and gigantic, super long butt!

Remember, D/C has to build the Viper to compete against cars that can be driven daily. And even though both concept cars and racecars are cool, there needs to be some design elements considered so that people might actually drive the upcoming Viper coupe on the street. Rather than just stare at it's cool, wild, concept car design that is wholly impractical for normal driving.

 

[SneakyPete]

I am critical of the car because I want it to last more than 3 generations and when DC brings the current car to the streets which has a strong (yet small) following I am pretty disappointed that they are doing nothing to preserve the future of the car. The viper was never about comprimises but zee germans don't understand that. With the magnum and 300 now being the cash cow for DC they really need to revisit what the Viper did for the company and get back on track.

That and RACE the damn thing. FYI DRIFTING is NOT racing!

Ever since Daimler bought Chrysler, it has been a downward spiral ever since, with customer service, dealers not getting paid for warrantee diagnostics, product design, product line problems and them not standing behind there problems.

Instead of trying to build just a convertable with horrible sales and a full blown race coupe. They should use the comp coupe as the base platfrom, then civilize it for the street and fiqure out how to do a hard top convertable. That way you could chose a race coupe, street coupe or street hard top convertable.

I would bet the street hard top convertable comp coupe would be the best seller, best off all 3 worlds.

 

[VIPER D]

Hey DC - THANK YOU!!! I love my new SRT.

I love the way it looks especially.

Thanks again DC.

Me too

hell I like it so much I had 2 srts at the same time. Also thank you d/c for the white mamba

p.s
thank you too paxton for 800 crank hp

vd..

 

[TomSlick]

I think that craig needs a ride in a "real" srt that would make him a "born again srt believer" Hey Craig fly out to ny and I will take you for a blast of your life.


vd..

Grand nationals are fast too, still doesn't mean they aren't ugly as hell.


























the is no disputing it is a fast car, it just doesn't look as good as it could have.

Craig, I respectfully would ask if you would leave out the blank portion. that serves no purpose. Thank You.

 

[SRTJOE]

Hey DC - THANK YOU!!! I love my new SRT.

I love the way it looks especially.

Thanks again DC.

Me too

hell I like it so much I had 2 srts at the same time. Also thank you d/c for the white mamba

p.s
thank you too paxton for 800 crank hp

vd..

Me Three

I chose my SRT-10 over a 360 Spider!

 

[SRT10]

Quote by Craig

Please refute my point you can't. The car is not selling and those are the plain and simple facts.

I refute your point!
Below are numbers of Viper sold right from the Viper registry. The SRT/10 has the 4th highest number up to 2003. Not bad considering a car rag like MT were posting pictures of fried eggs & popcorn on the car.
Still you need to see 04 & 05 numbers before you can make comments like that.


'92 - 285
'93 - 1043
'94 - 3083
'95 - 1577
'96 - 721
'96 GTS - 1166
'97 RT/10 - 117
'97 GTS - 1671
'98 RT/10 - 379
'98 GTS - 837
'99 RT/10 - 549
'99 GTS - 699
'99 ACR - 215
'00 RT/10 - 840
'00 GTS/ACR - 949
'00 ACR - 218
'01 RT/10 - 874
'01 GTS/ACR - 877
'01 ACR - 227
'02 RT/10 - 545
'02 GTS/ACR - 918
'02 ACR - 159
'03 SRT/10 - 1875

 

[Craig 201 MPH]

and in how many of those years was the plant shut down due to swelling inventories?

What are the percentages of total vehicles sold in X year vs. vehicles produced in X year?

 

[Y2K5SRT]

2003 was 100% in theory (all preordered).

2004 saw a whopping 2435 SRT-10's built, which means only the 1994 RT/10 out built it. I won't say outsold, as we know there are certainly 2004 SRT-10's still to be found. Again, I would state that the styling has little to do with it. I think the bulk of the problem for 2004 centers on the following:

1. Dumped on the market with few actual customer preorders.

2. Excited dealers that ordered their first Vipers ever and suddenly realized that they couldn't sell them in Podunk, USA for $10,000 over sticker (not that they didn't try). Thus they sat, and many still sit.

3. Many of those same dealers panicked and dumped their inventory on eBay or liquidated it elsewhere. Result? Those dealers that were waiting patiently for the cars to sell closer to sticker were now competing with many cars offered at "wholesale" prices. And so their cars continue to sit.

4. The used market took a hit because the new market was depressed. Why buy a $70K used SRT when you could pick up a new one for darn near the same price? A vicious spiral indeed.

5. Cam bolts and other bolts. While most had no problems, the ones that did made it well known. In such a very small market to begin with, this also impacted sales. Nobody wants to invest $80K in a car that they aren't confident in mechanically.

Besides the "dumping" of SRT's on the market, DC offered no variety and no reason to order a car in your name. Three colors and that's it. No stripes, no interior options - nada. And the Mamba Editions were the same way - sent to any dealer that asked, no preorder required. Takes some of the fun out of that "personalized" car.

Finally, I would note that we can sometimes be our own worst enemies - or those "Viper friendly" folks can be. Threads like this one do absolutely NOTHING to bolster the SRT-10 or the Viper community as a whole. They divide and make the entire Viper program look weak. If you were considering a new SRT-10 and tuned into this you would probably look towards another marquee. Indeed, I know of at least one person that has decided to sell off their SRT solely because they are so disappointed in threads like this. The "bastard stepchild" thing was tolerable when the SRT first came out, but to see it continue in ANY form some two years later is just pathetic. Especially coming from outside of the Viper ownership group. No matter what your supposed motivations are, slamming the SRT at every opportunity affects the Viper market adversely. And endangers the longevity of the Viper program as a whole.

The Viper SRT-10 is an absolute killer car. It still graces more magazine covers than any other car (I collect them) and still wins shoot outs and all the important stuff. The styling is excellent, if simply not quite as exotic as the previous Vipers. The order process needs to be thought out differently, the Coupe needs to be official, and the horsepower needs to stay one step (or ten) ahead of the competition. I look at this entire issue as temporary and just a matter of more logical thinking at DC to fix.

 

[RavenFan_94]

Y2K you are a true asset to this board and our club.