Some ACR problems (canards & wing)

[Grant]

Two ACR-specific problems I've run into with my car that owners should probably be aware of:

1) Dive plane cracks around the rivets and/or loose-fitting rivets:
I appologize for the poor quality, but you should be able to barely make out a small crack in my dive plane, starting at the very back of it and almost reaching the rivet:

In this picture, you can see one rivet is not fitted flush with the fascia (all the other rivets are):

I believe airspeed and a foreign object put a lot of downward pressure on the plane at the same time that ill-fitting rivet allowed it to flex more than it should. The result was a crack.

I think I will remove the rivets (I assuming by drilling them out? I have looked at the other side of them) and replace them with nut/bolt fasteners with larger contact areas (washers) on the actual carbon fiber. Epoxy should fix the crack (which hasn't gotten any worse since some marbles and crap hit it).

2) Water in the wing:
The endplates on my wing aren't sealed! The result is that the wing can accumulate water when its raining. Are all ACRs like this?

Loosening and tugging on the end plates (via a 4mm tamper-proof allen key) while the hatch is all the way open gets most of the water out. To get it all out, I think you'd have to remove the wing, one end-plate, and turn it sideways. Another option would be to take both end plates off and blow out the remaining water with compressed air. Does anyone know if this water could harm the CF at all?

I plan to get some black or clear silicon (all I usually buy is the high-temp stuff, so I've got none laying around) and use that to seal the end-plates.

 

[treesnake]

You drive your new ACR in the rain regularly?..

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

You drive your new ACR in the rain regularly?..

Attaboy!

 

[wallbanger]

I have removed rivets before with a drill on my 08... just start off with a slightly smaller drill bit then go larger ... when the drill bit is the same size as the hole in the bumper the rivet will fall out..The nut/bolt with a larger washer sounds like a good idea.. can't you get a new dive plane under warranty and just do the installation yourself?

 

[Viper Wizard]

Grant, can you say Warranty! Go see your Dealer!

Every ACR I've had come through here, the wing has had water in it after we washed them! Silicone maybe a good idea but you might want to leave a little space [vent] for air pressure differences?!

 

[BlknBlu]

be careful with the Warranty. As soon as you adjust the dive planes or the rear wing the warranty is voided(they assume you are racing). From my understanding the diveplanes are not suppose to be fully torqued due the pressure from the downforce. Good luck

Bruce

 

[Cop Magnet]

Considering the cost of these items, I would NOT mess with them. I'd, ahem, also not mention any foreign objects. Get it covered under warranty. Once you start drilling, that option is lost.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Good to know. Dodge will address these issues.

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

I would strongly suggest not trying to remove the ends of the wing. Some of us ACR owners got a lecture from prefix at VOI regarding that. If you strip in any way the thread hoes in the wing you will be buying a new wing, you won't like the price. I don't remember if the danger is also there with the dive planes but I seem to remember it is.
I would let the dealer do this work and if he screws it up you will be covered.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

If you strip in any way the thread hoes

Freudian slip obviously.

 

[Grant]

You drive your new ACR in the rain regularly?..

Sure. I'm even known to wash it on occasion. Aside from how easily 14" wide rear tires hydroplane, I've found the car to be pretty easy to drive in the wet. In moderate rain, it can still pull over 1 gee in low-to-mid speed corners, probably more at higher speed...

I have removed rivets before with a drill on my 08... just start off with a slightly smaller drill bit then go larger ... when the drill bit is the same size as the hole in the bumper the rivet will fall out..The nut/bolt with a larger washer sounds like a good idea.. can't you get a new dive plane under warranty and just do the installation yourself?

Thanks, thats what I'll do.

Unfortunately, there are some rather obvious scuff marks on the top of the plane caused by something a Hoosier'd Porsche GT3 kicked up. I don't think it'll be possible to cover under warranty, but if I can get back to my favored dealer before my next track day I'll ask. I have no idea if the cracks were from this contact (it wasn't much; all the marks came off the clear bra with some clay bar-ing), or simply airspeed (lets just say the car hasn't seen its highest speeds during track events). Since the crack hasn't gotten an worse, I'm inclined to say it was the foreign object.

I would strongly suggest not trying to remove the ends of the wing. Some of us ACR owners got a lecture from prefix at VOI regarding that. If you strip in any way the thread hoes in the wing you will be buying a new wing, you won't like the price. I don't remember if the danger is also there with the dive planes but I seem to remember it is.

Already done. Other than the (blue) threadlocker and tamper-proof heads there is nothing abnormal about the fasteners, and no reason a sane person should strip or cross-thread them. I actually think I might replace the wing adjustment fasteners with a nylon nut, bolt and c-clip (to prevent embarrassing and expensive "whoops I lost my wing" failures).

If you did strip the end-plate fasteners, I'd think there would be options beside an entirely new wing (drill out the old fastener and threads, then epoxy new threads in), but hopefully I'll never find out.

 

[fireball]

All my parts seem to be OK in terms of cracks. However, the drivers side end plate is slightly loose. I've been scared to tighten it but maybe I should just get the tool and go ahead.... or maybe let the dealer do an oil change and get it tightened at the same time under warranty. Any thoughts?

As far as rain goes. I'm not sure what kind of rain you drive in but I think I really took the term 'dive planes' to heart as the attached photo suggests. No damage to the dive planes.

Greg

 

[CitySnake]

If you strip in any way the thread hoes in the wing you will be buying a new wing

Freudian slip obviously.

OK, that was killer funny!

 

[Grant]

All my parts seem to be OK in terms of cracks. However, the drivers side end plate is slightly loose. I've been scared to tighten it but maybe I should just get the tool and go ahead.... or maybe let the dealer do an oil change and get it tightened at the same time under warranty. Any thoughts?

Either way its pretty hard to screw up. Whatever you do, I'd make sure the bolt is loosened all the way and apply some more threadlocker (I've been using blue locktite). All the wing fasteners seem to have threadlocker on them, which typically only sets from heat and friction the first time its tightened (so you need to re-apply when the bolt is loosened).

Do you hear water slosh around when you close your trunk? That surprised the hell out of me the first time I heard it.

 

[Cop Magnet]

I'm waiting to hear the first report of someone standing on an ACR's dive plane thinking it was some kind of step.

 

[Warfang]

Freudian slip obviously.

haha... thought the same thing

 

[bluesrt]

if they dont warranty the dive planes,they make a special drill for those rivets,(it cuts down on the spin when u drill it,cause ur not doing it in stages but 1 time.)it may be a good idea to replace the rivet with small hex and nylon nuts,maybe even a small tab with the bolt in the center of the small stainless tab?would help the friction,maybe even put 2 way rc sticky tape behind the tab for supprt for the cracking.

 

[JonB]

I would strongly suggest not trying to remove the ends of the wing. ......... If you strip in any way the thread hoes ........
I would let the dealer do this work and if he screws it up you will be covered.

Hey Chuck: I think Lee is saying only YOU may be qualified to strip them hoes?

And I thot 'thread hoes' were those with more than 3000 posts per calendar year!

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

All my parts seem to be OK in terms of cracks. However, the drivers side end plate is slightly loose. I've been scared to tighten it but maybe I should just get the tool and go ahead.... or maybe let the dealer do an oil change and get it tightened at the same time under warranty. Any thoughts?

As far as rain goes. I'm not sure what kind of rain you drive in but I think I really took the term 'dive planes' to heart as the attached photo suggests. No damage to the dive planes.

Greg

Love the picture! Love the pun!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Hey Chuck: I think Lee is saying only YOU may be qualified to strip them hoes?

And I thot 'thread hoes' were those with more than 3000 posts per calendar year!

"Thread hoes" require Loctite.

This thread can only go downhill from here.

 

[viper GTS-R]

be careful with the Warranty. As soon as you adjust the dive planes or the rear wing the warranty is voided(they assume you are racing). From my understanding the diveplanes are not suppose to be fully torqued due the pressure from the downforce. Good luck

Bruce

Wait, what? Isn't the ACR MENT to be on a road corse from time to time?

--RS

 

[fireball]

Either way its pretty hard to screw up. Whatever you do, I'd make sure the bolt is loosened all the way and apply some more threadlocker (I've been using blue locktite). All the wing fasteners seem to have threadlocker on them, which typically only sets from heat and friction the first time its tightened (so you need to re-apply when the bolt is loosened).

Do you hear water slosh around when you close your trunk? That surprised the hell out of me the first time I heard it.

Loctite is 'anaerobic' in that it sets in the absense of air and not from the heat created by the friction of installation. It also is not to be used in metal to plastic applications. I'm not sure if the carbon fiber resins are 'plastic' or not but I don't think Loctite should be used in this application. But if your not having any issues maybe that's the right thing to do... I dunno.

I've never heard water in my wing. Likely because it drains out where the side plate is loose.

Where do you purchase the tools to adjust your wing?

Greg

BTW, since Loctite is anaerobic I have no idea whay it doesn't harden in the dispenser?

 

[Mopar Boy]

I'd, ahem, also not mention any foreign objects. .

Was thinking the same thing!

Robert

 

[Grant]

I'm not sure if the carbon fiber resins are 'plastic' or not but I don't think Loctite should be used in this application.

The threads are metal, I'm guessing epoxied into the CF.

Where do you purchase the tools to adjust your wing?

PepBoys sometimes carries torx-style tamper-proof tools, but you can also get them at electrical supply stores.

As for loctite hardening, I dunno. I thought I read in Screw to Win the heat and pressure from the threads tightening is what made it set.

 

[fireball]

Nope, anaerobic. Scroll down to the threadlocker area. There are threadlokers that use the heat from assembly friction but Loctite Blue isn't one of them.

Loctite Consumer Retail Products | Product Questions

The metal insert makes sense. Blue Loctite looks like the way to go then.
Thanks,
Greg

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Good grief, "strip the hoes" I spit the diet coke on the keyboard Chuck. Good catch.

 

[gen2lover]

If you sprinkle when you twinkle be a sweetie and wipe the seatie.

 

[ACRBruce]

If Dodge won't warranty the parts, how about claiming insurance? "Road" debries should be covered. Find a vendor here that can give enough discount to cover the deductible shouldn't be difficult to do on this forum.
On another note, I'm too lazy to crawl under the car to find out how the front splitter is attached because I'm thinking of removing it for the street. Is it revieted on also and if not, can it be removed easily? Wonder how the car would look with just the dive planes

 

[bluesrt]

get a rip saw and cut all that shxt off! get it out of the way

 

[Cop Magnet]

I thought I read in Screw to Win the heat and pressure from the threads tightening is what made it set.

Yeah, you subscribe for the articles!