Someone gave this viper away!

[MIKE-HKS]

Very good point. HKS has no idea what he's talking about. For instance, the first link above in your post for the Viper on eBay. Final price was $35k with the reserve not yet met. This does not mean that this car will go for $35k when their is no reserve. If fact, I can bet that the price of that particular car would be a good amount higher then the $35k it was bid up to. I have been selling items on eBay since 1998 (with over 1400+ feedback) and from my personal experience, if you place a reserve on an item, the interest of bidding is diminished. I guess there is no point in telling you this for the 3rd time, seems you're a bit hardheaded when it comes to the obvious.

We are looking at this in a different way that's all.
that first car i put in the list had a buy it now why wasn't it used?
maybe because it was not worth to anybody more than the max bid of 35k

the 2000 red ACR has been on there 6 times and it has never gone past 44k, why?
even if i'm the only bidder, bidding on an item ill bid what i think its worth,
so if i think its worth 44k, or , is only worth 44k to me, ill proxy bid 44k, and if nobody bids past 44k
its not worth past 44k to anybody alls on ebay period..
correct me if i'm wrong on this !
and the same goes for the rest of them.
maybe they are worth more way more, but at that given time or date the highest bid is the max that they are willing to pay for that car, dont you think ?

 

[DLTARNU]

"The reserve is a minimum price. Why hide it?"

I believe the idea behind a reserve is to get the bidder in the habit of bidding. Say the reserve is set to $45K, but the buyer only planned to spend $42K, tops.

A 7-day auction goes by and he bumps up his bid price daily. Last day of the auction, he's already envisioning what it would be like to drive the car. The price is already up to $42K - how much higher would it need to go? So he rethinks his top price. You know, $3K isn't all that much more. So he bids $43K. $44K. $44.5K. $45K! And he wins...

I think that's the idea behind it. Whether or not it's a sound idea is debatable, and I tend to agree that reserve prices are a waste of time and mostly an annoyance.

 

[iispms]

Most of the Vipers on ebay do not sell ON the site. A lot of them are negotiated later. I actaully bought mine on ebay a year ago. I wouldn't mind one bit if that happens this time.

 

[Gerald Levin]

Reserves are definitely a turn off. Especially the "NO RESERVE" auctions in which the "item" is overpriced prior to any bids. They scream "NO RESERVE" in the headline but they don't understand that by overpricing the opening bid, they are in fact placing a reserve on the item.

 

[joe117]

At least you can see the opening bid. If the guy is one of those who think the car is worth more than it is, well, you don't bother.

If the guy sets the open at some reasonable minimum that you would pay, then others will probably think so too and the auction is on.

A hidden reserve just causes a long string of meaningless bids.

 

[LIRacer]

I just bougt my car from an Ebay auction, however I didnt bid on it. I called the dealer and we worked out a price. THe dealer was not letting the car go fo anywhere near the Ebay prices. I paid $48,500 for a 99 GTS with 9300 miles. Maybe I paid a littel high, but then again I didnt have to ad in the cost of flting out to see the car and then $1200 -$2000 to transport it home.

I totally agree that Ebay is not representative of the market. I would pay more attention to Hemmings (for classics) or AUto trader (for Vipers). My 72 LT-1 is on Ebay and on AUo trader and hemmings. On e-bay it is sitting at $18,000 ... on the other two I havetwo guys who are biddingthe car past $24,500.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Reserves are definitely a turn off. Especially the "NO RESERVE" auctions in which the "item" is overpriced prior to any bids. They scream "NO RESERVE" in the headline but they don't understand that by overpricing the opening bid, they are in fact placing a reserve on the item.

I have sold a couple cars on eBay for friends - both classic muscle cars. Part of the reason for a reserve is the eBay fee system: You pay $40 to list the car (whether it sells or not) plus any "enhancements" (bold, highlighted, featured category, etc.). You then pay another $40 when the first bid is placed (no reserve) or when the reserve is met. Why spend $40 more on a car that didn't sell or sold for less than what you wanted?

Very few people are willing to roll the dice and list their Viper with a $1.00 starting bid and no reserve. The time/day the auction ends, holidays, and even economic news can swing the price of a car any given day. Say your auction ends at 1:00 AM West Coast time on a Tuesday night - just after they announced that unemployment went up and 50,000 layoffs in the tech market. Your 2000 GTS which would have brought $48,500 the Sunday evening prior now gets no late bids and ends at $38,500. A $10,000 swing is a HUGE hit on any car, including a Viper. 95% of the sellers will not run that risk.

As to starting your auction at your asking price, it doesn't make it much of an auction. You are better off throwing it on AutoTrader or your local newspaper, especially if the price is too high. And one of the previous posters was dead-on: By creating an atmosphere for multiple bids (low starting price with a reserve), you generate more interest in the car and often end up with a bidder that convinces themselves they have to have that car. Some will get complacent when there are no other bids, others will bid high (and thereby hit the reserve) on their second or third bid when they see others that are interested in it. I sold a '69 Firebird convertible for the Buy It Now price (which was higher than the reserve) because the guy had lost a similar eBay auction a couple weeks prior. He saw this one start getting bids and took the plunge. That is how 90% of the cars on eBay get sold.

I have been selling on eBay since July of 1996.

 

[rcdice]

Y2K3SRT, is right on it. I've bought and sold a lot of Lionel trains on Ebay (another hobby) and have never listed any of them with a reserve. But we're talking about items that are in the hundreds of $$ here, not cars. If I listed a car I would definitely use a reserve. Most auctions are only 3-10 days. That's not a lot of time and as Y2K3SRT has perfectly stated, world events can DRAMATICALLY change who's bidding at any particular time.

One way around the "reserve mystery" I've seen is sellers who list an item with a reserve so they can have the formality of it through Ebay and the protection, but list the reserve price in their description. This may take away some of the bidding hype but at least buyers know exactly where the seller is coming from.

BTW, back to prices on Ebay, I think there is often a "risk factor" figured into prices on Ebay. If the buyer has to travel to see the car, buy it sight unseen and/or have it shipped, he is potentially going to bid lower to compensate for those costs/risks. Also, did anyone notice that the winner of the auction that started this thread was a dealer? I'll bet he's not buying it for his personal collection. So, we could perhaps conclude that he bought it wholesale with the full intention of selling it retail to someone else. Probably not on Ebay.

 

[djemcee]

If they don't meet reserve, they don't sell. You can't say "This is what they sell for," when they don't meet reserve.

As much as I love eBay, it doesn't depict the automotive market truly. You're buying a car sight unseen over the internet -- makes a huge difference.

What a suprise, I notice you don't own a Viper...

I don't own a Viper yet. I bought a 2002 for 49k on ebay. Going to look at it next week. I have to fly in to Florida. Yes I know be careful in Florida. I will spend all day picking the car apart and if it passes, it goes on a enclosed truck back to Cali to meet me 7 days later.

Chris

 

[cayenne]

I don't own a Viper yet. I bought a 2002 for 49k on ebay. Going to look at it next week. I have to fly in to Florida. Yes I know be careful in Florida. I will spend all day picking the car apart and if it passes, it goes on a enclosed truck back to Cali to meet me 7 days later.

Chris

What's to be careful about in a Florida car?? I'm new to this philosophy.....

TIA,
C

 

[joe117]

The part about saving the cost of listing by not having the reserve met makes sense.

 

[Supra]

Ebay is soft for many cars. A friend of mine just picked up a mint 50K mile 1998 Viper GTS (Red) for $36,500! He was the only bidder on a no reserve auction. If I had known about it there would have probably been 2 bidders

 

[99 R/T 10]

Ebay is soft for many cars. A friend of mine just picked up a mint 50K mile 1998 Viper GTS (Red) for $36,500! He was the only bidder on a no reserve auction. If I had known about it there would have probably been 2 bidders

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6209&item=2479917145&rd=1

 

[Snakester]

I've bought and sold several cars via E-Bay and it's definitely a poor judge for determining current car sales prices.
There is MUCH that happens unseen to the actual auctions.
Many dealers post car ads with a provision at the bottom that the car is subject to sale locally. And they list the car with a low starting bid and no reserve. But then regularly pull the ad before the auction is up. Sometimes they just do it to get a list of prospective buyers, and their e-mails to contact them offline.

It could easily be that this GTS did not sell for the indicated price, especially because (looking in the comments at the bottom of the ad) the seller specifically said that buyers needed to call him, and the first cash bid offline would close the auction.

Plus besides deadbeat sellers, there are MANY more deadbeat buyers. Some are kids, that use their parents credit cards to open a $15K+ bidding account, and most are people playing around who unexpectedly win, and do not have the actual money to buy the car.

And of course there are cars that look like a great deal, but they are salvaged, have hidden flaws, or washed titles.

For the most part, the ONLY fair consideration of some sales prices are the "buy-it-now" price and somewhat the "reserve met" sold prices.

Any price that doesn't meet reserve has zero value. The reason is because there is NO accounting of sub-reserve prices, and there is no consequence to bidding under reserve.

I could happily bid $500K on a Ferrari Enzo with a 1.3 million dollar buy-it-now price, or even one with no shown reserve because there is NO chance that a legal Enzo will ever be selling for that low. Many people bid just for fun, keeping their bids under reserve.

As mentioned before, only regular ads with listed prices like in Autotrader are ones where you can more accurately gauge what real going prices are. And even those are subject to regular fraud.

There are some genuine bargains to be found if you look long enough and find someone desperate to sell, but they are truly rare, with the bulk of the super-good-looking deals being scams, or otherwise flawed.

-Dean.

 

[Doc.]

I don't think that EBAY is a good gauge of the overall market on any car. It is a gauge of the market for cars on EBAY. There is a huge difference between what someone is willing to pay for a car that they have never seen(which is thousands of miles away) verses one they have seen in the flesh. There is no emotional component to the cars that have not been seen in person.( think about the first time you sat in a Viper) I agree that there is a built in cushion for these cars as a prudent buyer has to figure the costs of going to see the car and transportation to get the car home. I flew out to buy my car and I negotiated the deal while I was there. If I quoted the price that we agreed upon and I left out these expenses I would be misrepresenting the true cost to purchase the car.Most people who are seriously looking for a high end auto would not even think of looking on ebay to find their ride. I bought one of my Vipers off EBAY but none of my partners would ever buy a car this way. I buy a lot of things off of EBAY that I don't even need but I get them because I can get them real cheap sometimes. I will bid on items that I have no interest in at full market price but I will take them if I can "steal them" at a low price. I think a lot of people do this with the cars on EBAY. If you would like a Viper but can only afford 35,000.00 for a car why wouldn't you bid in hopes that you may run across a desperate seller and get luck. If you look close you can often see the same person bidding on lots of different cars but always backing down when the car starts to get up to true market value. This does not mean that any of the bids were really serious buyers at full market price. Rather, some of them are dreamers hoping to strike lightning. I do it all of the time. I don't need another Viper but If I can get a really good deal on one (or any other item ) I'm a player. I think a lot of dealers use this technique to buy cars at a low price and then retail them for a markup. Also, Some of these cars may not be worth full market value when they are seen in person. I have seen some cars that I would not buy at any price, while I have seen others that I would gladly pay a premium for due to their excellent condition. AS the Viper gets older it is to be expected that the price will diminish as do most vehicles. But pristine Vipers still command top dollar from serious buyers. You just have to wait for the right buyer.

Doc

 

[GraphiteGTS]

HKS,
You obviously are an expert on Viper prices and seem to be a very intelligent gentleman.
Now, tell us where you bought your Viper and how smart a purchase it was. We certainly can learn a lot from you.