sooo... if 500 HP is not enough...

[Rnj1]

I have had the lil beast (2005 21,000 miles convertible) a few weeks now, and am enjoying the driveability of this car, and it feels like a luxury car after the 94. But, lets say I wanted to bump it up to say about 640-650 ponies... It is 11 years old, looks new.. and I want to keep its dependability, not looking to go crazy. The engine seems to be a great platform to add power, and maintain the engines longevity, reliability. So for reliability, dependability, and 150 more hp, your experienced recommendations???

 

[MoparMap]

Several people have had good luck with heads and a cam on the gen 3 cars. There are two builds on here at least I know of that have put down ~630 at the tires. I've been really tempted to go that way on my car multiple times, but ultimately I know I won't use it. I track the car once a year and otherwise daily drive it. I don't use the 550 hp I have now very often, having another 100+ would be fun, but just wouldn't get used that often for me.

A supercharger is another fairly easy way to get there, but I've never really cared for the added complexity they require. It's just one more system on the car that wasn't designed to be there. It's not that many of the kits out there aren't nice or well done, but the car wasn't designed with them in mind, so they just don't always quite fit optimally. I've always like the Roe kits on the early gens as they look like a very nice piece that integrates nicely, but they've never built one for a later gen as far as I know.

 

[Paul Hawker]

Adding a Paxton will still give you that great drivability down low, but when you get the revs up, you will have all the Horsepower you can handle.

Great fun for reasonable cost.

If you keep the standard (almost 800 hp) tune, they are super reliable and only need more frequent oil changes.

 

[Free2go]

If you're looking for a busted crank snout, get a Paxton. Hell, ask Phil. We can't all have Roe twin screws.....

 

[plumcrazy]

lol.....

 

[Rnj1]

.. more like.. how much is too much??

.. I am thinking cam, heads for that nice little lumpy idle and kick **** sound... it's a toy, not a dd so.. so this winter I may have a project..

 

[Jon Martin]

If you're looking for a busted crank snout, get a Paxton. Hell, ask Phil. We can't all have Roe twin screws.....

I'm curious about this. I see people saying Paxton = reliable. Then post's like this, talking about snapping snouts. Are people just putting too much tension on the belts? If you had to guess what would you say the ratio of successful Paxton install's vs failed would be?

 

[TalonTSi90]

I'm curious about this. I see people saying Paxton = reliable. Then post's like this, talking about snapping snouts. Are people just putting too much tension on the belts? If you had to guess what would you say the ratio of successful Paxton install's vs failed would be?

The way it was explained to me, the Paxton, like a turbo, will make power up top and I think a bad tune can cause it to hit too hard too fast? Maybe that's the shock causing the snout to break? Since the Roe makes more power lower in the band, it's easier to tune? Dunno, I can't find a definitive explanation either.

 

[Bobpantax]

The stock Paxton Kit installed with Dan Cragin's calibration on the controller ( Dan's calibration, among other things allows road course track days without the stock program dumping fuel to cool the cats which causes the car to misbehave) is very reliable. I had it on my former Gen III from 2006 through 2013 when I traded it. It was flawless. The snout problems come in ( I never had one) when belt tension is too tight which is really an installation or maintainence problem. As Paul Hawker said above, the Paxton setup is very drivable since the power does not really start to kick in until about 3300 RPM. My system was put in by Woodhouse when the car was brand new before the car was delivered to me. The car dynoed at 778 flywheel HP. But the number varies. Some engines are better than others. 750 at the flywheel was/is common. The power comes in much lower down in the Roe cars. My Gen II had an 8 pound Roe system and was a beast. The Roe kit was not as friendly on a daily driver basis and the controller calibration was not nearly s robust and even was effected by certain weather changes. But it was a lot of fun to brake it lose and try to control the hockey puck effect and I believe that despite it producing less peak power that it was faster in the quarter mile when it was behaving. If you want to put in a Paxton kit for a Gen III and do standing mile events, you need to have the stock tranny modified so that it is a true six speed. Because in the stock tranny 5th and 6th gears are overdrives, when you shift out of 4th at about 165 MPH, the power drops like a stone because you are out of the supercharger's rpm sweet spot. Making it a true six speed solves the problem. Donato Engineering in Michigan can do that for you.

I'm curious about this. I see people saying Paxton = reliable. Then post's like this, talking about snapping snouts. Are people just putting too much tension on the belts? If you had to guess what would you say the ratio of successful Paxton install's vs failed would be?

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

I'm doing 659rwhp in a Greg good heads and cam 2006. My cam is a bit bigger than he normally uses but it drives good. A bit getting use to driving slow but I just drive it fast to compensate

 

[TalonTSi90]

The stock Paxton Kit installed with Dan Cragin's calibration on the controller ( Dan's calibration, among other things allows road course track days without the stock program dumping fuel to cool the cats which causes the car to misbehave) is very reliable. I had it on my former Gen III from 2006 through 2013 when I traded it. It was flawless. The snout problems come in ( I never had one) when belt tension is too tight which is really an installation or maintainence problem. As Paul Hawker said above, the Paxton setup is very drivable since the power does not really start to kick in until about 3300 RPM. My system was put in by Woodhouse when the car was brand new before the car was delivered to me. The car dynoed at 778 flywheel HP. But the number varies. Some engines are better than others. 750 at the flywheel was/is common. The power comes in much lower down in the Roe cars. My Gen II had an 8 pound Roe system and was a beast. The Roe kit was not as friendly on a daily driver basis and the controller calibration was not nearly s robust and even was effected by certain weather changes. But it was a lot of fun to brake it lose and try to control the hockey puck effect and I believe that despite it producing less peak power that it was faster in the quarter mile when it was behaving. If you want to put in a Paxton kit for a Gen III and do standing mile events, you need to have the stock tranny modified so that it is a true six speed. Because in the stock tranny 5th and 6th gears are overdrives, when you shift out of 4th at about 165 MPH, the power drops like a stone because you are out of the supercharger's rpm sweet spot. Making it a true six speed solves the problem. Donato Engineering in Michigan can do that for you.

Thanks, nice explanation.

I'm doing 659rwhp in a Greg good heads and cam 2006. My cam is a bit bigger than he normally uses but it drives good. A bit getting use to driving slow but I just drive it fast to compensate

NA or SC ?

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Thanks, nice explanation.



NA or SC ?

its an na build!

 

[TalonTSi90]

its an na build!

Sweet !

 

[Jon Martin]

Centrifugal superchargers (Like a paxton) obviously, are just belt driven turbochargers. Which is why they behave similar to turbo's. Roots and Twin screws... They have always made power down low, but they are not efficient at all. So most of the air they force into the engine is hot. But as Bobpantax mentioned, that instant boost/torque is quite fun. I figured the snout issue was probably from improper belt tensions.

 

[Jon Martin]

The stock Paxton Kit installed with Dan Cragin's calibration on the controller ( Dan's calibration, among other things allows road course track days without the stock program dumping fuel to cool the cats which causes the car to misbehave) is very reliable. I had it on my former Gen III from 2006 through 2013 when I traded it. It was flawless. The snout problems come in ( I never had one) when belt tension is too tight which is really an installation or maintainence problem. As Paul Hawker said above, the Paxton setup is very drivable since the power does not really start to kick in until about 3300 RPM. My system was put in by Woodhouse when the car was brand new before the car was delivered to me. The car dynoed at 778 flywheel HP. But the number varies. Some engines are better than others. 750 at the flywheel was/is common. The power comes in much lower down in the Roe cars. My Gen II had an 8 pound Roe system and was a beast. The Roe kit was not as friendly on a daily driver basis and the controller calibration was not nearly s robust and even was effected by certain weather changes. But it was a lot of fun to brake it lose and try to control the hockey puck effect and I believe that despite it producing less peak power that it was faster in the quarter mile when it was behaving. If you want to put in a Paxton kit for a Gen III and do standing mile events, you need to have the stock tranny modified so that it is a true six speed. Because in the stock tranny 5th and 6th gears are overdrives, when you shift out of 4th at about 165 MPH, the power drops like a stone because you are out of the supercharger's rpm sweet spot. Making it a true six speed solves the problem. Donato Engineering in Michigan can do that for you.

Now that 750 flywheel average... Is that just installing on the entire paxton kit (which Cragin's tune) on a factory vehicle??? No exhaust mods? I wouldn't want to try to push an additional 200-250hp through my factory exhaust with any power adder form. Whether it be supercharger or Nitrous.

I'm doing 659rwhp in a Greg good heads and cam 2006. My cam is a bit bigger than he normally uses but it drives good. A bit getting use to driving slow but I just drive it fast to compensate

And being able to add around an additional 200whp in NA form is pretty damn impressive. Sounds like Dodge left a LOT of power on the table to be had. Obviously that power is not always emissions friendly.

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Now that 750 flywheel average... Is that just installing on the entire paxton kit (which Cragin's tune) on a factory vehicle??? No exhaust mods? I wouldn't want to try to push an additional 200-250hp through my factory exhaust with any power adder form. Whether it be supercharger or Nitrous.



And being able to add around an additional 200whp in NA form is pretty damn impressive. Sounds like Dodge left a LOT of power on the table to be had. Obviously that power is not always emissions friendly.

mine is emmisions friendly I have high flow cats. Keep in mind in 1\4 mile an na car can run as fast as a supercharged car with 100 more HP!

 

[TalonTSi90]

Not to knock any power adder, but with these cars i agree, LOTS of power left lying around. But it seems most people simply want it the fastest, easiest way possible. Im leaning towards 542ci, high flowing heads, ported intake, 3" exhaust with headers, blah blah blah.

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Not to knock any power adder, but with these cars i agree, LOTS of power left lying around. But it seems most people simply want it the fastest, easiest way possible. Im leaning towards 542ci, high flowing heads, ported intake, 3" exhaust with headers, blah blah blah.

ha nice! With 542ci you might get 700rwhp or more! Wish they made a better intake for gen 3's! Well I saw one that's very pricey! Mitech its called. Not sure if we can swap gen 5 to gen 3 motor. Seems complicated with dual throttle bodies and airbox etc. I'm looking into it now! Keep us posted on you build!

 

[Jon Martin]

Keep in mind in 1\4 mile an na car can run as fast as a supercharged car with 100 more HP!

Um.... Is this some kind of experiment that you've partaken in?

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Um.... Is this some kind of experiment that you've partaken in?

ask Greg good maybe na cars have more torque off the bottom? Plus after a few races no heat soak.

 

[Jon Martin]

Idk who Greg Good is. But by this logic, I can have two stock identical vipers, add a supercharger to one pushing an extra 100hp, but they will both still be just as fast...

Basically, there are other factors involved. Say Greg Good dyno'd his NA viper on a Mustang dyno and the supercharged viper dyno'd on say a Dyno Jet... Mustang dyno's read low, while Dyno Jet reads high. That difference could easily be around 100hp. If you want to know what a car's real power is, look at it's trap speed in the 1/4 mile vs it's weight. The rear tires don't care where the power is coming from or what type of power it is. It all translates into torque.

 

[Bobpantax]

It depends on the power distribution over the curve and your diff and tranny gearing.

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Idk who Greg Good is. But by this logic, I can have two stock identical vipers, add a supercharger to one pushing an extra 100hp, but they will both still be just as fast...

Basically, there are other factors involved. Say Greg Good dyno'd his NA viper on a Mustang dyno and the supercharged viper dyno'd on say a Dyno Jet... Mustang dyno's read low, while Dyno Jet reads high. That difference could easily be around 100hp. If you want to know what a car's real power is, look at it's trap speed in the 1/4 mile vs it's weight. The rear tires don't care where the power is coming from or what type of power it is. It all translates into torque.

ummm you have a viper and don't know Greg Good? That's weird he's one of the most knowledgeable viper engine guys there is if not the most knowledgeable! FYI Greg said if the cars were both dynoed on the same machine he would pick the less HP na car to win. Its not just about the trap speed its where they make their power!

 

[TalonTSi90]

ummm you have a viper and don't know Greg Good? That's weird he's one of the most knowledgeable viper engine guys there is if not the most knowledgeable! FYI Greg said if the cars were both dynoed on the same machine he would pick the less HP na car to win. Its not just about the trap speed its where they make their power!

Jon and i are both new and learning a lot!!

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

Nice! Welcome aboard. Sorry bout that didn't I you were new.

 

[Jon Martin]

ummm you have a viper and don't know Greg Good? That's weird he's one of the most knowledgeable viper engine guys there is if not the most knowledgeable! FYI Greg said if the cars were both dynoed on the same machine he would pick the less HP na car to win. Its not just about the trap speed its where they make their power!

Clearly you're not understanding my point, and that's ok. Yes I'm new here, and it is a pleasure to meet all of you. Carry on.

 

[BlackOutBoxing]

I think I understood ur point?