Speaker upgrades

[cdover73]

I have been searching the site and reading about all the upgrades you guys are doing for speakers. I finally stopped by a local sound shop and got an interesting option.

First off, my biggest concern was replacing the blown sub between the seats. I looked at the JL Audio(hard to find anymore) and Kicker. Both fit the enclosure, but the JL seemed to tall to fit the 3" deep box. I removed the box from the car and took it to the sound shop with me.

What he recommended was two options:

1. Order the Kicker 40CWRT672 and see how it sounds. He recommended trying it ported then maybe remove the rubber inner port to increase space then seal it off and see which sounds better. If this works we are done, all for under $200. If we don't like it, he can return it and I won't be out anything.

2. This is the one that got me after researching his offer. It is for a Focal Utopia Be 13WS 5" hand made unit. I had never heard of them and after seeing that they offer a 6 speaker component setup for $25000 (yes that's 3 zero's!!) I figured he was about to be unreal on price. The speaker sales for $600 on the Focal website, but he said he could get it to me at his cost for around $300. The only thing is if we decide to go that route it is mine...no returns.

He would do the same with either speaker. Try it ported first, then sealed. He would also wrap the box in sound deadener and, if sealed, stuff the box with filler. He was honest and said he is curious to see how the Focal would sound, but didn't want to gamble with my money. He did say he would dedicate his shop to try to sale it for me if I didn't like it after purchase.

Next is the door speakers. The previous owner apparently upgraded to Polk Audio for the doors. Regardless, they are very distorted at high volume and have to go. I know I'm asking a lot for a factory amp setup, but I know there is a solution. What do you guys find best for the doors?

And last is the 3" speakers behind the headrests. Again, what do you recommend? The dash tweeters are fine, so I won't be replacing them.

I plan on keeping everything as stock as I can and retain the factory upgraded RB1 head unit with nav.

Then again, I could scratch all of this and just invest in a Belinger or Corsa exhaust....now THAT is music to one's ears!!!

 

[MoparMap]

I have the shallow Kicker sub in the stock sub box and a matching set of their 6" (or something like that, it's a bit of a goofy size) in the doors as they have the same three bolt mounting as the factory speakers and sit under the factory grilles fine. Most aftermarket speakers are 6 3/4" and will fit in the opening, but any covers tend to sit on top of the door and not flush, which I kept hitting my knees on getting in and out of the car. The car also had Focal tweeters in the dash, but they were huge and didn't fit under the covers when pointed correctly either, so I go ta set of little 3/4" Kickers to replace them. I also had to put a new amp in it as my factory one was gone (replaced by a monster 5 channel in the trunk that I got rid of). Ended up with a nice Alpine 4 channel setup mounted back in the factory location under the passenger seat. Since I'm missing the extra channels, I no longer have the little speakers behind the seats anymore.

Overall it's a decent system. Still lacks the presence I'd like it to have at volume, but I've just come to accept that this car wasn't really meant for audio. Between a soft top and moderately loud (but more importantly low tone) exhaust, most audio gets drowned out or dulled quite a bit. The system sounds nice to my ears sitting in the garage with the engine off, but as soon as you start it the bottom end tends to fall out. I can crank it up and hear it at 70 on the highway with the top down if I really want to. Overall I'm happy with it though. I much prefer keeping stuff at least looking stock. The hokey setup that was in the car when I bought it was just a mishmash of leftover parts in my opinion. The ad claimed $1500 worth of stereo upgrade, but I think you'd only get to that number buying all the parts that were in it new 10 years ago.

 

[cdover73]

So what about the choice of the Kicker sub over the Focal? I know it's probably apples to oranges but would I be better off with the Focal or wait to see what the Kicker sounds like? The more research I do on the Focal the more it sounds like I may not be disappointed, but if they're not much better than the Kicker then why spend the extra $200...

I agree, the car is not meant to be a rolling concert. But I do like quality and looks in my components. I would rather drive and hear and feel the rumble of the power, but when cruising through town and want to listen to music I don't want to be embarassed to turn up the volume.

 

[MoparMap]

I agree with you, I commute in mine regularly and some tunes are a nice way to make the time pass. The exhaust is fun to listen to, but sitting at 1300 rpm humming down the highway for half an hour isn't the same as blasting through a canyon road or through a tunnel.

I think you'll be hard pressed to find anything that sounds particularly good in the space available. Focal makes some dang nice stuff, but I don't know that it can contend with the limitations the car presents. My Kicker is okay, but doesn't still have some distortion/rattle when you crank it up. I think I could probably tune it up some with a little foam tape on the mounting and equalizer settings, but you won't have much of any of that with the factory head unit and amp. I can play with independent sub volume, crossovers, etc, but that's all built into the factory amp and preset for the components they chose. If you were going with a full system I think the Focal would probably noticeable outperform the Kicker, but without the ability to set up the system to take advantage of its strengths, I'm not sure you'll see the performance out of it. Granted I'm not an audio engineer by any means, it's just kinda how I see it from the many threads I've read and the experience I've had with audio systems.

The funny thing is that after all the work I did trying to undo the sub-par job that was my car, my parents bought a bone stock 03. I'm not sure I understand why people give the stock system so much grief. I'm sure a blown sub would ruin things, but all the speakers in this car work just fine and it has some good bass and pretty clear at volume. I think Alpine did a pretty nice job with the setup given what they had to work with.

 

[SANCHOBA]

I'm probably going to move the sub to passenger footwell, like some have done and maybe throwing a full range speaker in the sub box between the seats.(running both channels)

 

[Steve M]

My advice: don't waste your time trying to modify or otherwise make the center subwoofer sound good. I've tried, and failed. It can sound good with the engine off, but as soon as you turn the car on, the bass from the engine will drown out anything that poor little speaker can produce.

If you have a vert and want bass, try making an enclosure for the passenger foot well. If you have a couple, a sub in the hatch is the correct answer if you want bass you can actually hear/feel.

 

[Kirkinsb]

I have tried the Soundstream USB-8A sub enclosure in the passenger footwell with really good results. I was impressed. Something about it being in the footwell that makes the bass really hit hard for such a slim enclosure. If you rarely have a passenger...like I do, it really does not matter. And this enclosure is durable enough even if you do have a passenger. It is a really good unit. I think it even has high level inputs so you can use the OEM sub connections. It beats the hell out of the OEM sub. Probably has 10 times the bass. Not sh*tting you. Go with a footwell low profile sub. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundstream...e-Loaded-8-Under-Seat-Subwoofer-/181699499937

 

[MoparMap]

Mine had a passenger footwell sub when I bought it, but it wasn't amazing. It was a small JL Audio 8W3 or something like that. I also don't have passengers very often, but everyone who ever did ride in the car complained about the lack of space and sat with their knees in their chest. Maybe the other enclosures out there are better (mine appeared shop made).

 

[NMviperguy]

I had issues with no base in my vert when I got it as well, my car has no performance mods, but they went crazy ish with the audio. I have 2 amps in the trunk... I think they had an aftermarket sub enclosure at one point because the mono amp isn't hooked up to anything, the other is a 4 channel amp. All my speakers had already been changed out to pioneers... Don't know the model's since they were already done, but the treble was great. Found a pioneer speaker also in the sub enclosure. This I couldn't handle. From being a teenager in the late 90s and early 2000s I've had systems in everything from my camaros to escalades and listen very loud to rap and hip hop. So I 'needed' the base. So to start with I purchased the big 6 1/2 inch sub fro JL audio 6w3v3-4... Talk about needing to figure out how to get it to fit... I also purchased a couple different sized speaker extensions from eBay. With some alcohol and a rear camaro seat I had sitting around (used the foam to feel the space between the speaker extensions), I did a farely good job. IMO it looks like it could have been from the factory as an option. Also I wasn't happy with the aftermarket head unit that was in there as well. I considered going with the RB1, but in the end decided to stick with pioneer and purchased a unit with USB, Bluetooth and an audio jack so I wasn't limited to just CD's and whatever was playing on the radio. All in all I have no issues with bass or audio at all, top down or up... If I could figure out how to post pictures I would show you the outcome... I am really happy with it!

 

[cdover73]

Its not the bass you can feel that im looking for. I know we are limited due to the factory box being crap. I just want well rounded quality sound. My Kicker came in today and the guy doing the install has my blessing to do what he would to his own car. He gutted the factory box and dyno wrapped, fiber filled, and sealed it. I told him i dont expect much but i do want the best sound possible from what we have to work with. Im thinking we will end up with the Focal in the end. We are also considering expanding the factory box or making a new one to go in its place. There is more room behind the rear panel that can be used. And i dont mind enlarging the factory grill hole for an 8 inch even, as long as it isnt a hack job. But i am still looking for input from anyone who has experience with Focal.

 

[Steve M]

It doesn't really matter if you want bass you can feel or not - in this case, it is just flat out hard to hear. I modified the stock enclosure to accept a 6.5" CDT audio M6+ subwoofer, sealed off the port, etc. It is being fed by a dedicated channel on my 5-channel amp - it sounds great with the car off, but as soon as you turn it on, it gets drowned out by the deep bass tones of the V-10 rumbling at idle. The Viper just has a very high noise floor to overcome, and that noise floor is very heavy in the bass frequencies. An 8" sub might help some, but I gave up after my failed attempt with the 6.5" sub. A single 10" sub in the hatch was the only acceptable solution I could find to meet my particular desires.

 

[MoparMap]

It doesn't really matter if you want bass you can feel or not - in this case, it is just flat out hard to hear. I modified the stock enclosure to accept a 6.5" CDT audio M6+ subwoofer, sealed off the port, etc. It is being fed by a dedicated channel on my 5-channel amp - it sounds great with the car off, but as soon as you turn it on, it gets drowned out by the deep bass tones of the V-10 rumbling at idle. The Viper just has a very high noise floor to overcome, and that noise floor is very heavy in the bass frequencies. An 8" sub might help some, but I gave up after my failed attempt with the 6.5" sub. A single 10" sub in the hatch was the only acceptable solution I could find to meet my particular desires.

That's exactly the same problem I have. Sounds pretty good with the engine off, but the second you turn it on it just disappears.

And a word of caution about opening up the stock grille. You might not care, but a replacement piece for that rear waterfall panel was $1500 last I checked. Not a big deal if you plan to keep the car, but it's something to consider if you ever want to try to get back to stock for whatever reason. I'm sure a panel from a salvage car isn't as expensive, but still probably not cheap. Just be careful with whatever you do.

 

[NMviperguy]

I agree. Having a good system to hear music is important. I was just surprised of the quality possibilities from a 6 1/2 inch sub. I am happy with my setup, and I hope you are too

 

[SANCHOBA]

Where is the oem amp located on a GEN IV?

 

[MoparMap]

It's under the passenger seat.

 

[SANCHOBA]

I have tried the Soundstream USB-8A sub enclosure in the passenger footwell with really good results. I was impressed. Something about it being in the footwell that makes the bass really hit hard for such a slim enclosure. If you rarely have a passenger...like I do, it really does not matter. And this enclosure is durable enough even if you do have a passenger. It is a really good unit. I think it even has high level inputs so you can use the OEM sub connections. It beats the hell out of the OEM sub. Probably has 10 times the bass. Not sh*tting you. Go with a footwell low profile sub. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundstream...e-Loaded-8-Under-Seat-Subwoofer-/181699499937

may just have to try this....

 

[SANCHOBA]

what about this one? would it work? the soundstream is a dual voice coil, is that necessary?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-KSC...005&rk=1&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=181699499937&rt=nc

 

[cdover73]

Okay, my speaker was installed today. Kicker sub. Gutted box, added a little filler, sealed the port, and dynomatted the box inside and out and the rear firewall as well. Speaker bottomed out at anything over half volume. He said the factory amp was overpowering the speaker, then on the way home it just quit working. Im wondering if he had the wires crossed and maybe phased the speaker. He is an excellent guy to work with and told me if I wasnt happy he would take it back and help me until we found something that worked. I will call him tomorrow about this one not working, he will make it good, and we will probably order the Focal.

I will say when the volume was low and the bass was turned to -4 on the RB1 it sounded pretty good. If I find a speaker that works it may be something I can live with after all.

 

[SANCHOBA]

i gave up on that sub enclosure (tried everything) just to small. (i also install a kicker sub)

 

[Steve M]

what about this one? would it work? the soundstream is a dual voice coil, is that necessary?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kenwood-KSC...005&rk=1&rkt=6&mehot=ag&sd=181699499937&rt=nc

Dual voice coil just gives you more wiring options...it really just depends on the impedance you are after.

 

[cdover73]

Update...my amp blew, not the speaker. For some reason the kicker speaker created or found a weak spot in my sub outputs of my amp. Or it was coincidence. I dont know, but the guy working on it is as puzzled as I am and has made it his point to find something that works. We are looking at a modified fiberglass enclosure that utilizes the existing space and even some of the void under the convertible top storage area. I dont want to put anything in the footwell as I want to keep a factory look as much as possible. He has ordered a new factory amp, will double check the sub, and we will start over once everything comes in. I promise im not being naive and not listening to yall. I just have a cheap reason to see if anything was missed before moving on to other options. I will update as we progress.

 

[MoparMap]

Interesting. I'm pretty sure the Kicker is dual voice coil as well, but not sure how the impedance stacks up compared to a factory amp. Could be that maybe it was just wired up wrong and didn't present enough load to the amp so it overdrove it? Either way, curious to see how things end up for you. I struggled with this one for a long time before I found something that was reasonable enough.

 

[cdover73]

Update...I bought a used amp off ebay. Double checked everything as we had it before and plugged up with fingers crossed. Turned power on and selected some hip hop with decent bass notes. Nothing too hard at first. Everything is working as it should. Here are the findings:

1. First off, everyone is right...the factory box does ****(I know... "I told you so"). I want this thread to pull everything together that has been so spread out in different places so far. As a recap, we went with gutting the port tube on my stock box. Im using the Kicker 6.5" Comp. Its a decent speaker and deserves it prompts for what is expected of a tiny subwoofer in a sub-par box and driven by factory components. We dacron filled the box, but also had to use a couple small blocks of medium density foam to isolate some rattle, which we couldnt figure out where it was coming from but could stop it by placing a finger in one specific area outside the box. We quieted the box inside and out with high quality deadener, as well as the entire rear panel of the cockpit behind the seats. With an otherwise stock setup I cant think of nothing more we could do to give this installation any better of a chance of success. I know a lot of you have already gotten past this stage. Again, I want to provide an end-all for our speaker issues once this thread is done, including for others like me that started from scratch and didnt heed the warnings of all of you that have contributed advice and warnings already.
2. These cars are not your average soundstages for concert quality. They are strictly business in an area they exceed in....and thats pure raw power and driving excitement...not a boom box. If you want that go **** an Accord with 20 speakers and enough batteries to power the space shuttle instead. This thread is for getting the most sound quality within a reasonable expectation.
3. The stock sub and ported box are designed to work together and do an ok job at it...until the speaker fails. The box is tuned to THAT speaker, and not to any other aftermarket speaker. This leaves the only other options of sealing the box, which WILL NOT be as loud but will have tighter bass notes, or going down the road of replacing everything to aftermarket, including the sub box. This is where I am right now. But since I want to retain the factory options, including the upgraded RB1 head unit, I have to come to either a realization or a decision. That is equally your call on your vehicle.
4. These cars are still "just cars" when it comes to working on them. Dont be afraid of having to wear dandelion gloves when working on it. That being said, these cars are not"just cars". Parts are expensive. So keep in mind if you break something... well you get the idea.
5. I am pleased with what I have right now. Do I want more from it, sure. But refer to #2. I think I am done for now and will spend any future money on the real sound system...the exhaust! I do need to also give a huge compliment to the sound shop that has been helping me. Music Express in Hammond LA, and more notably BJ the owner, has been outstanding. Anyone within 100 miles of Baton Rouge/New Orleans should consider them. You may find equals, but nobody better.

I know this isn't really much more information than is already out there. There are a lot of people who know waaay more about this than I do. I just want to bring it all together in one spot since this seems to be a recurring issue every time some new owner (like me) gets the idea they can make it better. Simple answer is you cant. Not without modification to just about all the components. The foot well sub seems to be a valid solution, but comes with too much sacrifice for space than I personally am willing to give up for my passenger.

If we happen to come up with any better solution that works I will post it here. For now I look forward to anyone else adding their opion/experience I may have missed.

 

[Steve M]

That is an excellent summary, and is exactly what I found when I ventured down this road a couple years ago. I've been happy with the final product - new single DIN head unit (specifically so I could play my iPod), Dynaudio components with passive crossovers (didn't want to deal with active), Image Dynamics 10" sub in a sealed enclosure in the hatch (my favorite part of the system by far), and a Kenwood XR-5S 5-channel amplifier under the passenger seat in place of the factory amp (running the front/rear channels bridged to power the Dynaudio speakers with the 5th channel powering the sub). I also went ahead and ran new speaker wire to the doors and dash while I was in there (figured why not?), and left the option of being able to disconnect the sub and remove it (if I do this, I can reconnect the sub between the seats).

It ain't audiophile quality sound, but it certainly gets loud enough to hear it under all driving conditions, and the sub hits hard enough to feel it in your chest (again, under all driving conditions).

 

[cdover73]

Do you have a coupe or convertible? I thought about the option of putting a powered sub in the trunk but I have heard the space between the back wall and the trunk was too great in my vert and it would sound like two seperate systems. Highs and mids in the front and bass coming from somewhere way in the back. Coupes dont have this problem because there is no separation between the trunk and cabin. Am I correct in this?

 

[Steve M]

Mine is a coupe, and I've heard the same thing about the vert vs. coupe thing as far as putting a sub in the trunk.

 

[MoparMap]

Do you have a coupe or convertible? I thought about the option of putting a powered sub in the trunk but I have heard the space between the back wall and the trunk was too great in my vert and it would sound like two seperate systems. Highs and mids in the front and bass coming from somewhere way in the back. Coupes dont have this problem because there is no separation between the trunk and cabin. Am I correct in this?

I put a sub in a box in the trunk to try it and they are totally separate spaces, so there's pretty much no use. Even standing outside the car you could sort of hear it, but when you opened the trunk you got a face full of bass. Sitting inside the passenger compartment only makes it even more muffled.

 

[Morketh]

Anyone have pictures of their speaker setup they can post? I want to go with the sub in the trunk option but wouldn't mind seeing what that floor sub looks like in the passenger seat to see how much space it takes up.

 

[NMviperguy]

http://i1027.photobucket.com/albums...ploads/IMG_20150504_193625870_zpsgsqkzpre.jpg
Here is a picture of my sub in the stock location if it loads correctly.

 

[cdover73]

I can't get it to pull up. Just a blank screen...