SRT Viper vs SLS AMG Black Series

[Policy Limits]

For $300,000 I'd rather have this:

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AND this:

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Fastest track car that requires more skill to drive - Viper TA, plus a beautiful, comfortable car that's fast and easy to drive - The SLS Roadster.

~Jay

great point! i'm with ya. only the roadster loses the doors, i'd prolly get the coupe base sls for gull wing effect!

 

[ViperSmith]

Our (Viper owners) butts are red from all the a$$ kicking the GEN 5 is getting. I'm sad.

Where's all the new gen 5 coupe owners drag times? .....So I can stop reading all our excuses (more excuses at .org then a White House press conference) on why we are getting waxed...

(I'm holding out for a vert but, starting for the first time EVER to think twice.)

Randy ran 2 seconds slower than his last time in the SRT, not sure the criticism is valid.

I don't understand why MT is running laps with the Viper again, they've already did the best they could once the production cars were off the presses (and with the TA).

I am sure Jack B will be posting up some times soon.

 

[Newport Viper]

I am sure Jack B will be posting up some times soon.

Jack B has an awesome looking car but, it's not stock. MCS? suspension I think... would liked to have seen what he would have done stock

 

[FLL-B/W-GTS]

Bottom line, the Viper got whooped again. The only way Viper will survive the next couple of years is with a DCT ,more refined and more HP.The Turbo Porsches,GTRs, McLaren's etc are just so much faster/quicker and easier to drive on the track and on the road. All the unsold Vipers sitting in the showrooms are now is proof of that.If the Viper is not improved ,big time,it will be done after next year.

I am sure the C7 Z06 and ZR1 will be off the chain...

That is just the way it is,not matter how it is spun...

 

[ACRucrazy]

IMO magazines, CCB, DCT, and a $150,000 starting price won't put the Viper in any better of a position. There are unsold GT-Rs still sitting around locally. As a matter of fact I have two brand new GT-Rs sitting 20 mins from me. And have been for months.

The new Viper is not a failure like people are thinking it to be. It's just not what they want it to be. A 700hp paddle shifting carbon ceramic brake stopping 3000 lb luxury super car for $110,000.

The Viper has improved. It has not failed, it's just competion has improved. And every car that can beat the Viper is the same price or hundreds of thousands more. Yet none of them has the street prowl that Viper does.

Who cares what a sec or less says in a magazine. Enjoy what car you want, this is a great age to live, technology is getting to the point of splitting hairs.

 

[PeerBlock]

Not sure why MT lets a reviewer who can't handle a manual do the review. These mag editors are lacking objectivity but at the same time they're telling it like it is:

The viper IS raw and "scary" to drive...they present this as a bad thing but it is intentional. The viper is supposed to have that type of "on the edge" feeling, and being able to feel the road due to the high level of feedback you get in the viper does not mean it is less "planted" it just means the driver hasn't gotten accustomed to it.

The complaints about the noise may be valid in the base Viper but in my GTS it's a load of crap. Whether my windows are up or down I do not get any excessive noise in the cabin area.

The heat issue is true, but I'm about 5 lbs lighter each time I step out of my viper so...in-car sauna feature is win. That, plus the attention I get from the ladie$ just by being in a viper...tis good thing.

I don't like paddle shifters. I feel more comfortable with an good-ole manual and with paddle shifters you have to cycle all the gears to get from one do the other, whereas with the manual you can go from 4 to 2 without hitting 3rd. With practice you should be as quick as or faster than someone with an electronically shifted "manual" transmission. Dead pedal does **** but these minor grips can be addressed with an aftermarket pedal set.

The final comment about AMG improving their car more than SRT improved the viper is outright bull****. The level of improvement from any previous gen viper to the current is substantial in all categories and SRT really did an incredible job with a smaller budget and less resources. AMG's changes were more incremental...and for $300K you have a car that posted a lap time within 1 second of a car that costs $200K less.

Despite the pro-mercedes spin throughout the review, I'd put this down as a win for the Viper.

 

[bluestreak]

I actually liked the comparo. I think they did a good job of putting the cars in perspective of what you should expect if you bought one. You should expect a journo to like a ride and interior on a Mercedes better because it is, especially on a 300,000 one. Their engines are insane (who else makes well over 600 hp from an NA V8???? Who is even close to that NA with a V8?) Mercedes is a beast when it comes to motors. That V8 was pulling the V10 in the Viper with less hp and more weight to carry. It was not all shifts. That motor is an outright monster! Kudos to Mercedes.


That being said, that car is U-G-L-Y. The wing looks like an afterthought (like some of the ACR photoshops we have seen).

The SLS runs on Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's which are faster than the original sport cups.
It Also has a full aero package.
And as mentioned it costs 300k.

Let's wait for the ACR with Trofeo R, DF and less weight to tear it a new one, and hope they do an apples to apples comparison. This is not apples to apples per se when there is an upgraded model for the Viper still to come, heck it's not even apples to apples as the TA probably could have outran it. You guys honestly didn't expect the base Viper to beat everything did you? LOL if you did. You have earned your frustration by not doing your homework.

What I hate is that Motortrend did a CRAPPY JOB OF EXPLAINING THE DETAILS. The SLS has an aero, gearbox, brakes and tires advantage. Yet they just act like it handled better because of the chassis. GIMME A BREAK!! That's horrible...... 400 lbs cannot beat all of that (for a one lapper).

 

[PeerBlock]

Their engines are insane (who else makes well over 600 hp from an NA V8???? Who is even close to that NA with a V8?) Mercedes is a beast when it comes to motors. That V8 was pulling the V10 in the Viper with less hp and more weight to carry. It was not all shifts. That motor is an outright monster! Kudos to Mercedes.

They bumped the redline from ~6500 to 8000 on that V8 which, along with a cam profile for higher engine speed, shifted its peak power up and reduced its peak torque. It's a good setup for racing since HP is more useful then torque once you're already moving...but it's probably not a lot of fun on the street since it's not going to feel like much at lower RPMs. This is basically what indy cars do.

What I hate is that Motortrend did a CRAPPY JOB OF EXPLAINING THE DETAILS. The SLS has an aero, gearbox, brakes and tires advantage. Yet they just act like it handled better because of the chassis. GIMME A BREAK!! That's horrible...... 400 lbs cannot beat all of that (for a one lapper).

Did you notice that when they guy was driving the viper he bounced the rev limiter a few times after coming down the corkscrew? That could have contributed to the small discrepancy in lap times since it indicates he not paying as much attention as he should have been.

 

[SnakeBitten]

It doesn't matter if Lieberman is a fat, a ***** who can't drive a manual or drives a WRX. The bottom line is the Viper lost badly again with one of the best racers behind the wheel NOT Lieberman. I don't like him much either and they should just let Randy do the whole commentary and test by himself.

SRT clearly didn't equip the Vipers to be dominant against today's Supercars. They are 5 years behind with the current Viper performance level. They are great drivers cars it seems but they don't have the ability to successfully compete against the top echelon sport/luxury group of Supercars.

No excuse for all that wiggling in turns, melting paint, dead pedal (I've heard owners complain about this too), excessive heat etc. This was a production SRT as well so no preproduction excuses etc. it simply got beat. It's just not enough car to sit atop today's sportscar podium. Does it need to be? It's probably not a realistic expectation anymore. The old Vipers (specifically the gen2) were rude and crude but the world beating performance made it relavent on the whole. The new Vipers, while vastly improved, are still a step behind it seems in comfort/ride but also in prrformance. I hope it can survive that.

I just hope SRT leaves the excuses on the cutting room floor for the next ACR. If any model NEEDS to be dominant it surely is this one.

 

[madninjaskillz]

Did you notice that when they guy was driving the viper he bounced the rev limiter a few times after coming down the corkscrew? That could have contributed to the small discrepancy in lap times since it indicates he not paying as much attention as he should have been.

Sure looked like Randy was sandbagging it to me as well. Not sure why he would run that time when he has run 2 seconds faster with the same setup. At the end of the day, it gets a 'who cares' from many of us here I suspect because we know what these cars can do and what advantages (tires, brakes, gearbox) other top-o-the-line cars still have against the base GEN V.

 

[SRTviper]

IMO magazines, CCB, DCT, and a $150,000 starting price won't put the Viper in any better of a position. There are unsold GT-Rs still sitting around locally. As a matter of fact I have two brand new GT-Rs sitting 20 mins from me. And have been for months.

The new Viper is not a failure like people are thinking it to be. It's just not what they want it to be. A 700hp paddle shifting carbon ceramic brake stopping 3000 lb luxury super car for $110,000.

The Viper has improved. It has not failed, it's just competion has improved. And every car that can beat the Viper is the same price or hundreds of thousands more. Yet none of them has the street prowl that Viper does.

Who cares what a sec or less says in a magazine. Enjoy what car you want, this is a great age to live, technology is getting to the point of splitting hairs.

I am not sure if they are not selling well because of the image has not been broken or just this new car isn't good enough given the price. But regardless the viper has more new cars sitting on dealer lots than any other cars that could compete with it (Shelby, Zl1, Zr1, zo6, GTR, even used turbo S and new r8s). There is a reason people are not buying these cars and I think it is because they think this is just a new viper with the same old persona. But unless people can actually get in and drive the cars the viper will fail as sad as that is. They can't expect people to just look for a buddy in the area to see if the viper really is able to compete with its competition. The world is heading towards the every day super car so super cars that are good only for driving once every while like say an ACR or a GT3 are slowly dying out or evolving to the cars where you can have your cake and eat it too.

It doesn't matter if Lieberman is a fat, a ***** who can't drive a manual or drives a WRX. The bottom line is the Viper lost badly again with one of the best racers behind the wheel NOT Lieberman. I don't like him much either and they should just let Randy do the whole commentary and test by himself.

SRT clearly didn't equip the Vipers to be dominant against today's Supercars. They are 5 years behind with the current Viper performance level. They are great drivers cars it seems but they don't have the ability to successfully compete against the top echelon sport/luxury group of Supercars.

No excuse for all that wiggling in turns, melting paint, dead pedal (I've heard owners complain about this too), excessive heat etc. This was a production SRT as well so no preproduction excuses etc. it simply got beat. It's just not enough car to sit atop today's sportscar podium. Does it need to be? It's probably not a realistic expectation anymore. The old Vipers (specifically the gen2) were rude and crude but the world beating performance made it relavent on the whole. The new Vipers, while vastly improved, are still a step behind it seems in comfort/ride but also in prrformance. I hope it can survive that.

I just hope SRT leaves the excuses on the cutting room floor for the next ACR. If any model NEEDS to be dominant it surely is this one.

I agree that the viper is 5 years behind. And you would think with this new one they could fix all the old issues but they haven't. It seems this is more of a dressed up old viper rather than an evolution to a new kind of viper. But still for under 150k it is not a bad deal if you don't count used cars. Since now 2008 lambos cost under 150k and r8s are even less which are all true super cars that give you the best of all worlds. Though the viper will always win in cheap maintenance and parts replacement lol.

 

[09 Venom]

I am going to take a guess here and say half you guys who are whining and commenting on the Gen V don't own one and haven't even driven one yet......so until you do stop embarrassing yourselves.

 

[ACRucrazy]

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[09 Venom]

I have corsa exhaust on my Gen IV and gen V is obviously stock. don't hear much drone in either car

 

[Pythonpete]

I am going to take a guess here and say half you guys who are whining and commenting on the Gen V don't own one and haven't even driven one yet......so until you do stop embarrassing yourselves.

You are 100% right Venom, its a beautiful car. Can't wait to buy mine, waiting on a vert.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I am going to take a guess here and say half you guys who are whining and commenting on the Gen V don't own one and haven't even driven one yet......so until you do stop embarrassing yourselves.

The only one embarrassing themselves is SRT's marketing dept and some of the elitists that have their head in the sand. I'm not in the least bit worried about your opinion of me or others who haven't driven the car. We don't need to drive one to know it keeps getting beat on track in head to head comparo's. You aren't going to beat Randy Pobsts time in the SLS, head to head, with you behind the wheel of your Viper either. So what difference does it make if one owns a car or not to discuss empirical data?

I love the ad homenim attacks that ignore hard data from a proven racer like Pobst. That hard data is what got Ralph off his butt and gave us the TA. Get at Lieberman all you want as he does **** but the elephant in the room is still going to be there.

 

[Camfab]

I'm not offended by that review, it's probably pretty accurate and manuals are completely archaic and much slower than the dual clutch automatics. I still prefer the manual and love the Viper for it, however the truth is that guys like me are a dying breed (literally). Thank you Dodge for building the car of my dreams, problem is, dreams go sour when your dreaming of the past and getting your ass handed to you. So just like the old geezers that still talk about how their stock 426 Hemi's ran 10's, which they never did, the Viper may just end up down that same collectible once mythical car road. Once youv'e been at the top, the whole world loves to point how your not on top anymore, even if your in the best shape of your life at forty.

The next ACR will hold the fate of the brand in it's execution, which leads me to my own thoughts. I see no point in a non ACR Viper, the car is not a 911 and NEVER, EVER will be. What is the point of buying a slower, lesser version of any car, maybe some of you can explain that to me. I'd rather see the Viper as a 250K race car with plates that I can't afford than a 10th place 140K has been.

 

[bushido]

It doesn't matter if Lieberman is a fat, a ***** who can't drive a manual or drives a WRX. The bottom line is the Viper lost badly again with one of the best racers behind the wheel NOT Lieberman. I don't like him much either and they should just let Randy do the whole commentary and test by himself.

SRT clearly didn't equip the Vipers to be dominant against today's Supercars. They are 5 years behind with the current Viper performance level. They are great drivers cars it seems but they don't have the ability to successfully compete against the top echelon sport/luxury group of Supercars.

No excuse for all that wiggling in turns, melting paint, dead pedal (I've heard owners complain about this too), excessive heat etc. This was a production SRT as well so no preproduction excuses etc. it simply got beat. It's just not enough car to sit atop today's sportscar podium. Does it need to be? It's probably not a realistic expectation anymore. The old Vipers (specifically the gen2) were rude and crude but the world beating performance made it relavent on the whole. The new Vipers, while vastly improved, are still a step behind it seems in comfort/ride but also in prrformance. I hope it can survive that.

I just hope SRT leaves the excuses on the cutting room floor for the next ACR. If any model NEEDS to be dominant it surely is this one.

I am not sure if they are not selling well because of the image has not been broken or just this new car isn't good enough given the price. But regardless the viper has more new cars sitting on dealer lots than any other cars that could compete with it (Shelby, Zl1, Zr1, zo6, GTR, even used turbo S and new r8s). There is a reason people are not buying these cars and I think it is because they think this is just a new viper with the same old persona. But unless people can actually get in and drive the cars the viper will fail as sad as that is. They can't expect people to just look for a buddy in the area to see if the viper really is able to compete with its competition. The world is heading towards the every day super car so super cars that are good only for driving once every while like say an ACR or a GT3 are slowly dying out or evolving to the cars where you can have your cake and eat it too.



I agree that the viper is 5 years behind. And you would think with this new one they could fix all the old issues but they haven't. It seems this is more of a dressed up old viper rather than an evolution to a new kind of viper. But still for under 150k it is not a bad deal if you don't count used cars. Since now 2008 lambos cost under 150k and r8s are even less which are all true super cars that give you the best of all worlds. Though the viper will always win in cheap maintenance and parts replacement lol.

On a shoe string budget you can't do much of an evolution. Only cosmetic ones..

Here's one example
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-srt-viper-gts-suspension-walkaround.html

 

[ViperSmith]

The only one embarrassing themselves is SRT's marketing dept and some of the elitists that have their head in the sand. I'm not in the least bit worried about your opinion of me or others who haven't driven the car. We don't need to drive one to know it keeps getting beat on track in head to head comparo's. You aren't going to beat Randy Pobsts time in the SLS, head to head, with you behind the wheel of your Viper either. So what difference does it make if one owns a car or not to discuss empirical data?

I love the ad homenim attacks that ignore hard data from a proven racer like Pobst. That hard data is what got Ralph off his butt and gave us the TA. Get at Lieberman all you want as he does **** but the elephant in the room is still going to be there.

Randy drove two seconds faster his last go around, beating the SLS. So, your claims the car is slow, are pretty off base. It is pretty silly to compare the Black SLS which is virtually race prepped to a SRT that lacks any of the CF goodies, wing and all. Sticky tires - but. Nothing else.

I haven't seen anyone that actually owns a Gen V, or actually in the market that cares about these magazine reviews. The only people that seem to comment are people that old owner generations coming to justify their reasons for not buying. Funny how guys with previous generations jump on PeerBlock for his comments about the Gen V being great, but turn about seems to be fair play.

I love the car, it is amazing. It going neck to neck with a $300,000 car, is a testament to SRT if anything. The fact they can compete with a well funded program on a shoe string - is great.

I do think they need to step up the game with DCT and the like to remain competitive. I love the manual, but the competition in the high end world are driving it.

 

[ViperSmith]

To note, I don't see anything wrong with previous generations, the Gen III/IV body style wasn't for me, but it is still an amazing performance car.

 

[ViperSmith]

I also find the "when the viper came out it swept the floor"

Listen, this isn't 1992 anymore when dropping 100 more HP into a car could sweep the floor.

We truly live in the era of super cars. The competition for this market is unreal. The money is big. The spending is above and beyond.

I feel the Gen V is an in between to the next revolution (hopefully) for the Viper. Imagine what they could do fully funded.

Great time to be into cars.

 

[ACRucrazy]

DCT is coming. Ralph said it. As long as it remains an OPTION and the 6 speed is standard I am OK with that.
Who cares if it's a split second faster around a track that I will never see if it's boring to drive on the street.
Give me an extra pedal and stick please.
(I also believe if the engine had another 50hp or so all of these discussions would be moot, because the competition is THAT close)

- Also, part of the Vipers appeal to me is how basic it is. It doesn't have a $20,000 transmission. I don't want a car with a $20,000 transmission. The Viper is SOLID. It's tried and true. For 20 years it's been a V-10 with a 6 speed manual transmission. If it needs a clutch, big deal, it wont break the bank, if it needs a transmission big deal but it rarely does. The Viper goes fast and does so without costing an arm and a leg. To all the GT-R leghumpers, you can keep it. It's a sweet car, but it wont go fast and continue to do so for years for next to nothing like the Viper can and will.

 

[madninjaskillz]

DCT is coming. Ralph said it. As long as it remains an OPTION and the 6 speed is standard I am OK with that.
Who cares if it's a split second faster around a track that I will never see if it's boring to drive on the street.
Give me an extra pedal and stick please.
(I also believe if the engine had another 50hp or so all of these discussions would be moot, because the competition is THAT close)

- Also, part of the Vipers appeal to me is how basic it is. It doesn't have a $20,000 transmission. I don't want a car with a $20,000 transmission. The Viper is SOLID. It's tried and true. For 20 years it's been a V-10 with a 6 speed manual transmission. If it needs a clutch, big deal, it wont break the bank, if it needs a transmission big deal but it rarely does. The Viper goes fast and does so without costing an arm and a leg. To all the GT-R leghumpers, you can keep it. It's a sweet car, but it wont go fast and continue to do so for years for next to nothing like the Viper can and will.

true story.

 

[SRTviper]

On a shoe string budget you can't do much of an evolution. Only cosmetic ones..

Here's one example
http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/track-tests/2013-srt-viper-gts-suspension-walkaround.html

Well they said it was 2 years behind not 5 lol. But my god they didn't change really that much as far as the chasis/suspension. Or even the brakes besides them being stop tech. So really this car is mostly cosmetic in its changes and not much more than that. I assumed they did a huge revision of the chasis and suspension but I guess not. This is probably why it has all the same problems.

 

[ACRucrazy]

StopTechs were available on the 2008-2010 Vipers, it was part of the $14,000 ACR package. That's why (IMO) the track pack for $3500 was a bargin! (shame they got rid of it...)
To those who think the Gen V is "finally the first Viper worth owning" consider this. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

 

[SRTviper]

StopTechs were available on the 2008-2010 Vipers, it was part of the $14,000 ACR package. That's why (IMO) the track pack for $3500 was a bargin! (shame they got rid of it...)
To those who think the Gen V is "finally the first Viper worth owning" consider this. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Well then maybe it isn't still worth owning if not much has changed. It seems nothing has changed but really wide tires. At least the outside and inside looks awesome!!! And I just really like the hood and how it opens.

 

[ACRucrazy]

I didn't say it's not worth owning. It totally is. Everything has improved, but deep down it's still a Viper. And that is a GOOD thing.
(BTW my previous reply was not directed at you)

 

[ViperSmith]

DCT is coming. Ralph said it. As long as it remains an OPTION and the 6 speed is standard I am OK with that.
Who cares if it's a split second faster around a track that I will never see if it's boring to drive on the street.
Give me an extra pedal and stick please.
(I also believe if the engine had another 50hp or so all of these discussions would be moot, because the competition is THAT close)

- Also, part of the Vipers appeal to me is how basic it is. It doesn't have a $20,000 transmission. I don't want a car with a $20,000 transmission. The Viper is SOLID. It's tried and true. For 20 years it's been a V-10 with a 6 speed manual transmission. If it needs a clutch, big deal, it wont break the bank, if it needs a transmission big deal but it rarely does. The Viper goes fast and does so without costing an arm and a leg. To all the GT-R leghumpers, you can keep it. It's a sweet car, but it wont go fast and continue to do so for years for next to nothing like the Viper can and will.

Plus, the GTR has no soul. Frankly I find it boring. The Viper in all incarnations is raw and inspiring.

No doubt the GTR is fast. Just not for me!

 

[SRTviper]

I didn't say it's not worth owning. It totally is. Everything has improved, but deep down it's still a Viper. And that is a GOOD thing.
(BTW my previous reply was not directed at you)

Yea I know it wasn't. So probably then a more appropriate title for the car would be it is just a better street legal track car like the GT3. And when the ACR comes out it will be a better version of the GT3 RS. Nice cars, but not so fun for daily driving or even driving on the street really.

 

[2003 Viper]

DCT is coming. Ralph said it. As long as it remains an OPTION and the 6 speed is standard I am OK with that.
Who cares if it's a split second faster around a track that I will never see if it's boring to drive on the street.
Give me an extra pedal and stick please.
(I also believe if the engine had another 50hp or so all of these discussions would be moot, because the competition is THAT close)

- Also, part of the Vipers appeal to me is how basic it is. It doesn't have a $20,000 transmission. I don't want a car with a $20,000 transmission. The Viper is SOLID. It's tried and true. For 20 years it's been a V-10 with a 6 speed manual transmission. If it needs a clutch, big deal, it wont break the bank, if it needs a transmission big deal but it rarely does. The Viper goes fast and does so without costing an arm and a leg. To all the GT-R leghumpers, you can keep it. It's a sweet car, but it wont go fast and continue to do so for years for next to nothing like the Viper can and will.

Well said ACRucrazy, the Viper is a drivers car.