SRT Viper vs SLS AMG Black Series

[Nine Ball]

I have driven a gen 4. And I really didn't enjoy it at all. It was like the GT3 RS I drove once. It is a street legal race car. And it is no fun to drive a race car on the street IMO.

If that statement is how you feel about the Gen 4, then the Viper is not meant for you. You are not the Viper type. The Gen 5 drives 99% like the Gen 4, it just has some added bells and whistles that do not change the way the car drives. The Gen 5 is more like a visuals and textures upgrade, not a driving upgrade.

Same steering, same brakes, same performance, same blind spots, same handling.

If you have driven a Gen 4, you will not need to test drive a 5. Even the Gen 3 drives nearly identical, it is just much slower.

I also disagree that a well-designed car should be easy to drive. Sounds like the GT-R, which I have zero interest in. I mean zero. When I had my supercharged C6Z06, I took it and my supercharged Viper to Texas World Speedway on the same day. My lap times were faster in the Corvette, but I found it less challenging to drive, and frankly more boring. It made me appear that I was a better driver than I was. Well, some off us prefer to rodeo the bull, not the bronco. I wasn't even close to mastering the Viper, and that is why I looked forward to driving it more. Z06 got sold.

 

[Policy Limits]

so we all have our ******* in a knot b/c a rag mag pitted the cheapest, least track ready Viper to the most expensive track ready SLS...shouldn't we sort of be proud it did so well. next time compare apples to apples. isn't that why they have weight classes in UFC, boxing, wrestling(real wrestling) etc??

Amen bro. They did a comparo against the base gullwing not long ago & we took it.

 

[swexlin]

If that statement is how you feel about the Gen 4, then the Viper is not meant for you. You are not the Viper type. The Gen 5 drives 99% like the Gen 4, it just has some added bells and whistles that do not change the way the car drives. The Gen 5 is more like a visuals and textures upgrade, not a driving upgrade.

Same steering, same brakes, same performance, same blind spots, same handling.

If you have driven a Gen 4, you will not need to test drive a 5. Even the Gen 3 drives nearly identical, it is just much slower.

LOL, that's scary, because, to me, my 03 is fast as sheeeeeet....! I can't imaging another 130 hp, and 65lb ft!

 

[Nine Ball]

LOL, that's scary, because, to me, my 03 is fast as sheeeeeet....! I can't imaging another 130 hp, and 65lb ft!

Gen 3 was fast for 2003-2004. Too many quicker cars out now. Even my Cadillac put down quicker times than my then-stock Gen 3. In a 4-door family car (CTS-V)

 

[v10enomous]

The viper looks way better. I mean the MB looks OK but $300k to drive around and have someone say... Hey is that a 72 TVR?

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[swexlin]

Gen 3 was fast for 2003-2004. Too many quicker cars out now. Even my Cadillac put down quicker times than my then-stock Gen 3. In a 4-door family car (CTS-V)

Scary, ain't it. I think the problem with all Gens is hooking them up. Tires just break loose, without traction control.

Amazing times we live in, when one of the fastest cars on the planet of 10 years ago is now considered slow by today's standards. We'll be bumping up against the laws of physics pretty soon now. These are the "good old days".

I don't have NEARLY the ability to drive my 03 anywhere near it's potential. It's why I have a hard time justifying an upgrade to a Gen 4 (besides the money factor, or course). A Gen 5 would be overkill, but it would still be nice to have!

 

[Nine Ball]

Scary, ain't it. I think the problem with all Gens is hooking them up. Tires just break loose, without traction control.

Or, running the proper tires for the duty. I can hook 1,000 ft-lbs in my '06, with the proper tires and driver control. Throttle pedal is still "traction control". Ha

 

[ViperSmith]

Will be interesting to see what 0-60 / drag times people start putting down now that we have the cars. Listening to people say the Gen V is harder to get off the line (jack) to me means no big surprise launch times seem a bit off when magazines get them. Once people get a handle on it, I think it will be more impressive.

Add that into launching against DCT car and not much of a surprise IMHO.

 

[ViperSmith]

And to be fair, the high performance car market isn't even what it was 10 years ago. The competition is just unreal. There is so much money in the high end, high performance segment and Middle East and China are driving a lot of it.

This just isn't 10-20 years ago which everyone fawns over where more HP won the game.

The Gen V debuted a year and a half ago now, which means the design is virtually 2.5+ years old now. A lot has changed in that time alone.

I hope SRT sees where the market itself is going and can go in that direction. We are hitting the limits of physics now, which is simply absurd when you think about it.

I think it is a fantastic drivers car and DCT or not, I hope they can retain the joy it is to drive.

 

[SRTviper]

If that statement is how you feel about the Gen 4, then the Viper is not meant for you. You are not the Viper type. The Gen 5 drives 99% like the Gen 4, it just has some added bells and whistles that do not change the way the car drives. The Gen 5 is more like a visuals and textures upgrade, not a driving upgrade.

Same steering, same brakes, same performance, same blind spots, same handling.

If you have driven a Gen 4, you will not need to test drive a 5. Even the Gen 3 drives nearly identical, it is just much slower.

I also disagree that a well-designed car should be easy to drive. Sounds like the GT-R, which I have zero interest in. I mean zero. When I had my supercharged C6Z06, I took it and my supercharged Viper to Texas World Speedway on the same day. My lap times were faster in the Corvette, but I found it less challenging to drive, and frankly more boring. It made me appear that I was a better driver than I was. Well, some off us prefer to rodeo the bull, not the bronco. I wasn't even close to mastering the Viper, and that is why I looked forward to driving it more. Z06 got sold.

I thought the ride was too harsh. I'm ignoring the appearance and interior because those were all fixed. But it was a very bumpy car, I even hit my head into the roof over a big bump. A well designed car doesn't have to be a GTR. Look at the mclaren, ferriar, lamborghini. lots of rear wheel drive cars that you can make it do what you want it to do. It is consistent and smooth. Not raw and unpredictable. That is for a different kind of driving and yea some people like that but unless you are Randy Pobst that is not a good car for the masses.

 

[mnc2886]

I thought the ride was too harsh. I'm ignoring the appearance and interior because those were all fixed. But it was a very bumpy car, I even hit my head into the roof over a big bump. A well designed car doesn't have to be a GTR. Look at the mclaren, ferriar, lamborghini. lots of rear wheel drive cars that you can make it do what you want it to do. It is consistent and smooth. Not raw and unpredictable. That is for a different kind of driving and yea some people like that but unless you are Randy Pobst that is not a good car for the masses.

In all honesty, reading your posts highlights that you have the wrong approach to the Viper to begin with. SRT was going to encounter this with their attempt to bring in new types of buyers and that's okay. This forum can help educate you. I'm not really sure what you want out of the Viper, but try to evaluate it as a platform rather than aiming for perfection. What I mean by that is that as far as a platform for a awesome experience it is hard to beat. I've driven a Gen IV and it was perfect for me. I liked that I felt everything that was going on in the road. I've driven Z06's, been in exotics, etc. I liked that fact the car told me exactly what is going on. Take the platform comment and use it. Put MCS shocks/springs on the car and from what I can tell by the many owners that have done it, it literally completes the Viper. I would beg SRT to put it on the car from the factory, but they'd never do it.

Being that the Viper is still a niche car you have to ask yourself the yes or no question. You either want a car that will highlight every flaw as a driver you have or you want a car that masks your imperfections and corrects them digitally. It's pretty simple if you ask me. Do you want to drive or play video games?

I chalk this up as another reason there shouldn't be two models, just one to build on. The posh luxury chasers are going to be severely disappointed. Only those that have owned a Viper are enjoying the new luxury. For all these cross brand shoppers, all SRT did was put lipstick on what was 1 of the 2 main reasons why they never considered the car. Then they drive it and realize nothing has really changed. Those people will still want a Porsche that does all the perfect shifting and launching for them as an ego stroke. Sorry, but most of those buyers would rather buy an ego stroke at $100K+. Not the other way around.

 

[SRTviper]

In all honesty, reading your posts highlights that you have the wrong approach to the Viper to begin with. SRT was going to encounter this with their attempt to bring in new types of buyers and that's okay. This forum can help educate you. I'm not really sure what you want out of the Viper, but try to evaluate it as a platform rather than aiming for perfection. What I mean by that is that as far as a platform for a awesome experience it is hard to beat. I've driven a Gen IV and it was perfect for me. I liked that I felt everything that was going on in the road. I've driven Z06's, been in exotics, etc. I liked that fact the car told me exactly what is going on. Take the platform comment and use it. Put MCS shocks/springs on the car and from what I can tell by the many owners that have done it, it literally completes the Viper. I would beg SRT to put it on the car from the factory, but they'd never do it.

Being that the Viper is still a niche car you have to ask yourself the yes or no question. You either want a car that will highlight every flaw as a driver you have or you want a car that masks your imperfections and corrects them digitally. It's pretty simple if you ask me. Do you want to drive or play video games?

I chalk this up as another reason there shouldn't be two models, just one to build on. The posh luxury chasers are going to be severely disappointed. Only those that have owned a Viper are enjoying the new luxury. For all these cross brand shoppers, all SRT did was put lipstick on what was 1 of the 2 main reasons why they never considered the car. Then they drive it and realize nothing has really changed. Those people will still want a Porsche that does all the perfect shifting and launching for them as an ego stroke. Sorry, but most of those buyers would rather buy an ego stroke at $100K+. Not the other way around.

What are the MCS shocks/springs? Why are they so good? Also that wouldn't work on a GTS viper that is electronic.

 

[Policy Limits]

hmmm well gotta say I'm a new breed cross over guy and I'm not disappointed. I like that its refined but still raw and that its got ferrari seating but still is a knuckle dragger. It was fun to go from flappy paddles to the manual too. I find it challanging yet rewarding, and most importantly, lots of fun!

Playing video games style of driving can be fun too but variety is the spice of life and my plate is extra hot right now.

 

[MoparMan]

Buying and owning a sports cars is an emotional undertaking. No one needs a Viper. You don't buy and own one because it's a necessity.

Exactly, and this is exactly what SRT has forgotten.

 

[PeerBlock]

If that statement is how you feel about the Gen 4, then the Viper is not meant for you. You are not the Viper type. The Gen 5 drives 99% like the Gen 4, it just has some added bells and whistles that do not change the way the car drives. The Gen 5 is more like a visuals and textures upgrade, not a driving upgrade.

You're coming across as an elitist troll who thinks he alone is authorized to declare who is a "viper type" and who is not. You know who is a viper type? The guy or woman who can afford to plop down $100K+ for a car. Even if it's only 1% different, it's 1% better but we both know it's more than that.

I can just imagine someone trying to do business with you:

Customer: "Hi, I'd like some wheels for my ride. Got anything I can check out?"

9Balls: "Sir, you're not the aftermarket wheels type. I can tell."

Customer: "What?"

9Balls: "That's right, aftermarket wheels aren't meant for you. You need to keep your stock wheels and get out of here."

Customer: "I also wanted to get my car dyno'd"

9Balls: <sighs and shakes head> "Listen, you're not the dyno type...."

If you have driven a Gen 4, you will not need to test drive a 5. Even the Gen 3 drives nearly identical, it is just much slower.

These kind of statements are just plain wrong. I hope nobody reads this and follows your advice.

I also disagree that a well-designed car should be easy to drive. Sounds like the GT-R, which I have zero interest in. I mean zero. When I had my supercharged C6Z06, I took it and my supercharged Viper to Texas World Speedway on the same day. My lap times were faster in the Corvette, but I found it less challenging to drive, and frankly more boring. It made me appear that I was a better driver than I was. Well, some off us prefer to rodeo the bull, not the bronco. I wasn't even close to mastering the Viper, and that is why I looked forward to driving it more. Z06 got sold.

That's about the only part of what you said that I agree with.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

A win is a win. And stock vs stock too. The Viper hauls and the SLS super hauls.

 

[VCA Forum Staff]

Peerblock.....You have a PM.

 

[Coloviper]

Stop feeding the trolls! Nine-Ball is NOT a troll.

 

[SnakeBitten]

"Different days bring different variables that affect performance of any car" So what do track records matter at all then? I mean, does that mean the ACR record at the ring is just a bunch of bupkis since we don't race all the cars at the exact same time? You mention the ZR1 record and the TA - well they weren't raced on the same day either, so I guess they don't matter - but apparently they do since you want to compare the two. But, comparing Randys best time in the SRT to the SLS best time is somehow off limits?

So, which is it? Are laps on different days comparable or are they not? Or is it only when it matters for your comparison?

I don't care about bench racing, so none of this has any bearing on me as I personally will never be able to drive these cars close to these limits. Motortrend exists to get eyeballs to stories and to get people talking about their magazine. Period. They have done so.

Lol. Man you are way too emotional over this. Your first response to me was defending your purchase then calling the viper slow. Then you had another emotional sarcastic outburst about you should sell the car because it lost etc. Relax and approach my post minus the emotional tirades. I'm simply stating facts about the Viper as it is equipped now.

As for the "different day" testing numbers thing. It doesn't sound like you are a 1/4 miler or a track guy because when i used to 1/4 mile at the tracks I've seen my car as well as many of my friends and fellow racers, 9 sec cars to 14 sec cars perform very different on different days even stock or same tune. So mag tests that are head to head are a better indicator of two competitors than testing them each on different days. It does not discount lap records done solo. But I'd bet if that SLS had run that same day when Randy had the better number with the SRT the SLS would have been faster still IMO.

Anyway, just think what the much heavier SLS did to the SRT in the straights for example. With less power and tq it out MPH and out ET'd the much lighter more powerful Viper. When the budget allows the Viper to have a DCT, CCB, better suspension you will see what this platform can really do. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Viper trapping 135mph or higher with a DCT easy especially seeing how the much heaver, weaker Merc performed. Not to mention GTR's, 911 TT etc.

My point wasn't that the Viper is garbage. You guys are bringing that into the equation not me. I love the Vipers ethos of yore but I also like the DCT, CCB's, magnetic ride shocks etc. unfortunately the new tech is so good that the Viper will get left behind performance-wise even all those cubes. Simple point sans the emotion. Not that I need to qualify myself with the following, but the Viper is still one of my favorite cars despite it not being at the top for now. I would love for SRT to get the budget to add DCT option along with manual shift standard to the upcoming ACR. DCT will not hurt the cars performance it will transform it beyond what it can accomplish with a manual.

You and some of the others that want to call me a hater go ahead. I'm going to keep discussing the facts

 

[Ev1E9]

A win is a win. And stock vs stock too. The Viper hauls and the SLS super hauls.

Calling the SLS AMG Black Series stock is a stretch. I understand what you mean. Both cars were tested as they come from the "factory". However, Motortrend failed to detail the lengths AMG went to develop the SLS Black Series.

I have grown to respect Drive's Chris Harris as much as any auto journalist. His articles and videos are both entertaining and informative. I have attached a link to his video review of the SLS Black Series:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkjqQ1rXpRs

I've also attached Harris' review of the SLS AMG GT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDjmN91UU4A

The SLS AMG Black Series is a significant upgrade over the SLS AMG GT, and SRT Viper. As I mentioned earlier, the TA would have been a better contender, and the future ACR is an even better match.

 

[bluestreak]

Yes that is what I mean by the viper is a work out. But worrying about shifting when also worrying about just controlling the car is a lot of input and stress. Yes I understand this is what real driving skill is but it can get tiring and tedious sometimes. Sometimes people just want to go fast and that is what is fun. Smooth is fast, and the viper does not appear to be smooth in any regard except maybe a straight line drag race.

No it's not. Certainly not for a guy like Randy Pobst, nor for most of the regular weekend track junkies. If you are not a regular, you aren't likely going to be that fast anyways. Shifting occurs in the braking zone or on the straight. You aren't doing much else so it doesn't take much effort, especially with practice, it's second nature.

NOT a workout in any form or fashion. You should try it before posting such things.

 

[ViperSmith]

Lol. Man you are way too emotional over this. Your first response to me was defending your purchase then calling the viper slow. Then you had another emotional sarcastic outburst about you should sell the car because it lost etc. Relax and approach my post minus the emotional tirades. I'm simply stating facts about the Viper as it is equipped now.

As for the "different day" testing numbers thing. It doesn't sound like you are a 1/4 miler or a track guy because when i used to 1/4 mile at the tracks I've seen my car as well as many of my friends and fellow racers, 9 sec cars to 14 sec cars perform very different on different days even stock or same tune. So mag tests that are head to head are a better indicator of two competitors than testing them each on different days. It does not discount lap records done solo. But I'd bet if that SLS had run that same day when Randy had the better number with the SRT the SLS would have been faster still IMO.

Anyway, just think what the much heavier SLS did to the SRT in the straights for example. With less power and tq it out MPH and out ET'd the much lighter more powerful Viper. When the budget allows the Viper to have a DCT, CCB, better suspension you will see what this platform can really do. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Viper trapping 135mph or higher with a DCT easy especially seeing how the much heaver, weaker Merc performed. Not to mention GTR's, 911 TT etc.

My point wasn't that the Viper is garbage. You guys are bringing that into the equation not me. I love the Vipers ethos of yore but I also like the DCT, CCB's, magnetic ride shocks etc. unfortunately the new tech is so good that the Viper will get left behind performance-wise even all those cubes. Simple point sans the emotion. Not that I need to qualify myself with the following, but the Viper is still one of my favorite cars despite it not being at the top for now. I would love for SRT to get the budget to add DCT option along with manual shift standard to the upcoming ACR. DCT will not hurt the cars performance it will transform it beyond what it can accomplish with a manual.

You and some of the others that want to call me a hater go ahead. I'm going to keep discussing the facts

I simply disagree with your take on this comparison.

I agree with where the car needs to go.

 

[Ev1E9]

Exactly, and this is exactly what SRT has forgotten.

I get it MoparMan.

 

[SRTviper]

No it's not. Certainly not for a guy like Randy Pobst, nor for most of the regular weekend track junkies. If you are not a regular, you aren't likely going to be that fast anyways. Shifting occurs in the braking zone or on the straight. You aren't doing much else so it doesn't take much effort, especially with practice, it's second nature.

NOT a workout in any form or fashion. You should try it before posting such things.

I take my car to the track and its a manual. Do you or do you just bench race? Go look at the motortrend vid Randy doesn't wipe his brow for nothing. He is doing it as a joke like "wow going fast in that car is a handful of work". If you can't see that well then you got other problems and I don't need to continue this conversation with you.

 

[TrackAire]

I'm not sure how people here are actually seeing a clear cut winner in this comparison

How do you win this comparison?....best driving car, best fit and finish, fastest quarter mile, fastest lap time? What exactly are you comparing when one car costs nearly 3 times the other?

The road course lap time would go to the Viper if it was on R-compound tires. The quarter mile might have also gone to the Viper if on sticker meats. The fit, finish, quality, ride, etc has to go the Merc, it costs 3 times as much....if it didn't win this then something is really wrong at Mercedes.

I don't think this was a controversial situation by Motor Trend at all....they tested two cars (not in the same league or price range) and the Viper did very, very well. They reported their measurements and their personal feelings about each car. I'm not sure why people think it got its ass kicked in this comparison.

Don't believe the Mercedes horsepower figures either, that motor is very under rated. It is putting out close to 650 hp when you look at the trap speed and vehicle weight equation. Add the superior rpm range, fast shifting DCT, sticky tires and electronic diff, it better win the quarter mile race.

One last question, what Ring time did this uber Mercedes run?......Mercedes will not publish this little tidbit of information because it would be getting embarrassed by a model 2010 Viper that still holds that record.

Cheers,
George

 

[bluestreak]

I take my car to the track and its a manual. Do you or do you just bench race? Go look at the motortrend vid Randy doesn't wipe his brow for nothing. He is doing it as a joke like "wow going fast in that car is a handful of work". If you can't see that well then you got other problems and I don't need to continue this conversation with you.

Why can't you understand that it had nothing to do with that car being a manual? He wasn't sweating at the end of the ZR1 lap, and that was challenging to drive fast. Nor was he complaining about the Shelby GT500 but he said that one was challenging to drive as well. No complaints of sweating on the Z07, or even the TA!!!!

The point that you keep seeming to completely miss is that the manual is not the problem. The handling of the car is. Would have been the same with a paddle shift, lots of work in the corners. The car returned to being twitchy and unpredictable like it was the first time around, hence the similar lap time.

Go back and listen to Randy's comments after the TA set the lap record, also watch the video and you'll see he wasn't working nearly as hard, same platform, similar tires, just better handling and the whole story changed. If you think DCT is going to fix the handling problems or make it any less of a chore to control in the corners, you have no idea.

And to put and end to it I submit to you Randy's comments on the LFA. Sounds eerily similar to the Viper, and the LFA has all kinds of electronic controls. So, like I said......

"It was like work. You know, it's kinda like when you have a beautiful girlfriend who's kinda high-maintenance. The Lexus was a little bit like that. It is on kind of a fine line. It's not a good-time car in a relaxed, casual way. It's a good-time car in a serious work way. You know, I think this is a little bit like flying an airplane. You know, in flying an airplane you can get killed real easy, so you gotta be really on it. And that's how driving the Lexus is. You've gotta be really on it, right on your game, all the time. And for me, that's less enjoyable than something I can just haul ass in."

 

[Zentenk]

I agree, it is done, go ahead and throw the DCT in as I am sure for you lazy, geriatric folks it will be a blessing, less clean up in your depends from a missed shift would be a plus. If you decide to pull the "Viper" out of the garage anyway.

 

[madninjaskillz]

I'm not sure how people here are actually seeing a clear cut winner in this comparison

How do you win this comparison?....best driving car, best fit and finish, fastest quarter mile, fastest lap time? What exactly are you comparing when one car costs nearly 3 times the other?

The road course lap time would go to the Viper if it was on R-compound tires. The quarter mile might have also gone to the Viper if on sticker meats. The fit, finish, quality, ride, etc has to go the Merc, it costs 3 times as much....if it didn't win this then something is really wrong at Mercedes.

I don't think this was a controversial situation by Motor Trend at all....they tested two cars (not in the same league or price range) and the Viper did very, very well. They reported their measurements and their personal feelings about each car. I'm not sure why people think it got its ass kicked in this comparison.

Don't believe the Mercedes horsepower figures either, that motor is very under rated. It is putting out close to 650 hp when you look at the trap speed and vehicle weight equation. Add the superior rpm range, fast shifting DCT, sticky tires and electronic diff, it better win the quarter mile race.

One last question, what Ring time did this uber Mercedes run?......Mercedes will not publish this little tidbit of information because it would be getting embarrassed by a model 2010 Viper that still holds that record.

Cheers,
George

Very good post, George.

 

[SnakeBitten]

I simply disagree with your take on this comparison.

I agree with where the car needs to go.

No problem Vipersmith. We all have our opinions and I respect that.

 

[SRTviper]

Why can't you understand that it had nothing to do with that car being a manual? He wasn't sweating at the end of the ZR1 lap, and that was challenging to drive fast. Nor was he complaining about the Shelby GT500 but he said that one was challenging to drive as well. No complaints of sweating on the Z07, or even the TA!!!!

The point that you keep seeming to completely miss is that the manual is not the problem. The handling of the car is. Would have been the same with a paddle shift, lots of work in the corners. The car returned to being twitchy and unpredictable like it was the first time around, hence the similar lap time.

Go back and listen to Randy's comments after the TA set the lap record, also watch the video and you'll see he wasn't working nearly as hard, same platform, similar tires, just better handling and the whole story changed. If you think DCT is going to fix the handling problems or make it any less of a chore to control in the corners, you have no idea.

And to put and end to it I submit to you Randy's comments on the LFA. Sounds eerily similar to the Viper, and the LFA has all kinds of electronic controls. So, like I said......

"It was like work. You know, it's kinda like when you have a beautiful girlfriend who's kinda high-maintenance. The Lexus was a little bit like that. It is on kind of a fine line. It's not a good-time car in a relaxed, casual way. It's a good-time car in a serious work way. You know, I think this is a little bit like flying an airplane. You know, in flying an airplane you can get killed real easy, so you gotta be really on it. And that's how driving the Lexus is. You've gotta be really on it, right on your game, all the time. And for me, that's less enjoyable than something I can just haul ass in."

Dude, your reading comprehension ***** so bad. I know it is because of the handling. I was saying earlier that driving a manual just in general gets annoying at times and to add that to the effort of handling the car like the viper adds to the annoyance. And yes I know for the TA he said it was much easier I actually listen when people speak not just hear. I've already said this either in this thread or another that SRT should use the TA suspension on all vipers because the shocks are much softer so it handles better because it isn't bouncing off the road.

Please realize we are saying the same thing.