Start up issue on Gen 1 1993

[sfelisio]

Hallo guys,
I have a long time issue on my Gen1.
When I start the engine (cold or hot nothing changes) the car has a long start and I have to restart one or two times because it doesn't run at the first attempt.

So the procedure tu run it is:
Turn the key (the pump runs)
Wait it stops making noise
Run it for 5 seconds.
Stop start
Place the key in OFF position
Repeat the procedure one or more.

When it finally starts it makes black smoke and bad smell as it is flooded engine.

To fix it I've done these mechanical work:
New pump
New filters
New nozzles
Engine head milling
New sparks plugs
New Spark plugs cables
New water pump
New sensors (temperature, pressure, pedal registration etc)
After these 10.000$ work the car runs great but the start up is a disaster.

Can someone of you make a video of your hot and cold starts?
Someone of you has an idea how to fix it? It is a black hole........

Many thanks u all.
Sandro

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[99RT10GTS]

So this is a common issue on the Gen 1s. You did a LOT of unnecessary work on the car. The fuel pump was never the issue, but the regulator that is letting the fuel pressure bleed down to nothing. Next time you start, turn your key to the "On" position, without starting. Do that 4-5 times, then start. it will need that many turns to build up the necessary pressure to start(50-55PSI). I would also pull all the injectors and have them professionally cleaned and checked. I am betting you have one or two bad ones. I sell the originals(black tops) cleaned and reconditioned. You can also use the Gen 2 injectors(red tops) which are better injectors as a direct swap.

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Black hole is caused by throwing parts at a problem you do not know what the problem is.

A proper diagnosis is the key.

 

[Badsnek]

So this is a common issue on the Gen 1s. You did a LOT of unnecessary work on the car. The fuel pump was never the issue, but the regulator that is letting the fuel pressure bleed down to nothing. Next time you start, turn your key to the "On" position, without starting. Do that 4-5 times, then start. it will need that many turns to build up the necessary pressure to start(50-55PSI). I would also pull all the injectors and have them professionally cleaned and checked. I am betting you have one or two bad ones. I sell the originals(black tops) cleaned and reconditioned. You can also use the Gen 2 injectors(red tops) which are better injectors as a direct swap.

Came here to say this^

Great advice 99rt10!

 

[sfelisio]

So this is a common issue on the Gen 1s. You did a LOT of unnecessary work on the car. The fuel pump was never the issue, but the regulator that is letting the fuel pressure bleed down to nothing. Next time you start, turn your key to the "On" position, without starting. Do that 4-5 times, then start. it will need that many turns to build up the necessary pressure to start(50-55PSI). I would also pull all the injectors and have them professionally cleaned and checked. I am betting you have one or two bad ones. I sell the originals(black tops) cleaned and reconditioned. You can also use the Gen 2 injectors(red tops) which are better injectors as a direct swap.

Hi mate and ty for the help, unfortunately running the pump twice or more before ignition is worse case, the car will definitely not start and if it starts it makes a lot of black smoke and some flames.
The only way to run it better (and faster) is to run it immediately before the pump finishes the "precharge"...

But anyway it rest a 5/6 seconds run time.
Those have experience pls can give me the name of the part I have to change and considering i'm in italy can you give me a lilnk to a shop where i can get it?

Many thanks for the precious help.

Sandro

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Then like he said injector(s) stuck open.

 

[99RT10GTS]

Yep, Stuck injectors. Get them professionally cleaned and checked. I am betting a few have some rust build up

 

[sfelisio]

Yep, Stuck injectors. Get them professionally cleaned and checked. I am betting a few have some rust build up

Thanks for the reply, there is a difference between injectors and nozzles?
Because I said nozzles referring to injectors that are new....

 

[Goggles Pizano]

Nozzle is the end of the injector and can be different shapes depending on application. Diesels for example have removable Nozzles from the whole injector.
Injector is the whole thing.

If you replaced them doesn’t mean they are good (new can be bad). You can check the signal to them using injector noid lights or to put a pressure gauge on the fuel line and see how fast it goes from 55psi to 0. Better if you can plug the fuel line as the regulator on the fuel pump is known to leak back pressure into the fuel tank so it eliminates leak back issue and you can 100% confirm it is an injector(s).

 

[99RT10GTS]

Nozzle is the end of the injector and can be different shapes depending on application. Diesels for example have removable Nozzles from the whole injector.
Injector is the whole thing.

If you replaced them doesn’t mean they are good (new can be bad). You can check the signal to them using injector noid lights or to put a pressure gauge on the fuel line and see how fast it goes from 55psi to 0. Better if you can plug the fuel line as the regulator on the fuel pump is known to leak back pressure into the fuel tank so it eliminates leak back issue and you can 100% confirm it is an injector(s).

^^^This^^^

 

[Jesavolax]

Hallo guys,
I have a long time issue on my Gen1.
When I start the engine (cold or hot nothing changes) the car has a long start and I have to restart one or two times because it doesn't run at the first attempt.

So the procedure tu run it is:
Turn the key (the pump runs)
Wait it stops making noise
Run it for 5 seconds.
Stop start
Place the key in OFF position
Repeat the procedure one or more.

When it finally starts it makes black smoke and bad smell as it is flooded engine.

To fix it I've done these mechanical work:
New pump
New filters
New nozzles
Engine head milling
New sparks plugs
New Spark plugs cables
New water pump
New sensors (temperature, pressure, pedal registration etc)
After these 10.000$ work the car runs great but the start up is a disaster.

Can someone of you make a video of your hot and cold starts?
Someone of you has an idea how to fix it? It is a black hole........

Many thanks u all.
Sandro

You must be registered for see images attach

I had same problem, new idle valve was answer in my issue