Starting a wrecked Viper database

[steve911]

Is there any sense in developing a data base to help track the VIN's of the cars that get wrecked, rebuilt and re-sold sometimes without properly being documented?

It seems to me that I have noticed alot more wrecked Vipers being sold on EBay and other sites of late. Having a database set up to track as many cars as possible may help someone down the road months or years later when a car could reappear repaired and perhaps offered as though it was never wrecked.

Some might say that it might too late to start as there are many cars out there already, but I say its never too late to start.

This could also include cars that are being offered with branded titles already repaired, because we all have seen or heard about a salvage title in one state could mean a clear title in another.

The process doesnt have to be complicated and the results could be accessible to all VCA members.

thanks for listening
Steve A.

 

[ViperGeorge]

Seems like a good idea but wouldn't CarFax do the same thing?

 

[dave6666]

It will be as helpful as the data is accurate and the data providers are honest.

Do you think everyone is going to pony up their salvage title info for the world to see?

Um...

 

[cash84]

I was thinking of the insurance company but never know if all the viper were insured. I'm guessing the DOT would know

 

[ViperGTS]

I have the same idea for years, Steve.

I could volunteer to make it in two languages since Germany/Switzerland are probably the biggest markets for Viper outside the US (most Swiss people speak German too).
I could deliver the data for 2 crashed Viper easily.

A few weeks ago I got a call from an insurance guy in Switzerland. My former (crashed, totalled) 1999 GTS was involved in another crash on the German autobahn - there was the suspect that somebody wanted to commit a fraud against the insurance company. So they called me about the car...

The biggest problem would be to get reliable data! From previous owners. Plus the agreement that we can check with the insurance company. Here in Germany I would call the insurance to see what happened to the car. Lots of time involved in such a project!

 

[steve911]

Even if we begin by just using all of the members eyes and ears that see the auction sites, EBay, Auto trader etc, it will go along way.

Why, right now there are 4-5 cars alone that are currently being talked about on the forums that are wrecked, rebuilt or branded that folks want info on.

We would never catch everything, but the way I look at it, if even one member was helped it would be worth it.

I would even go so far as to volunteer to help in the process. I guess I would like to see if there is a consenus among the moderators and members to see if there is enough interest to pursue a project like this. We would need lots of participation throughout the world in order to make it a success.

Should there be a poll started?

Steve A.

 

[dave6666]

The liability in publishing wrong or inaccurate information would probably discourage an official support mechanism.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I'm in the horse is out of the barn camp, so not to hijack, but I suggest a "how-to" for looking at cars to see if they have been wrecked. There are secret VIN locations that up until the 1996 or so service manual were shown; later manuals don't admit anything past the windshield frame. Where are they since that would identify mix and match parts. Someone commented on a thread about "initiator" sites in the frame that bend first in order to provide the crush rate to protect passengers. If a frame end is replaced, where is the cut and weld? I imagine the shop guys could identify a rebuilt car fairly easily, so teach us how?

Making the owner/buyer smarter can go a long way instead of trying to beat the crooks, who could possibly be looking at the proposed wrecked list also.

A poll, did someone say a poll?!?!

 

[dave6666]

A poll, did someone say a poll?!?!

NooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo Tom noooooooooooooooo...

 

[SquadX]

Sounds good to me or start a thread on wrecks with vin# and post on what damage was done to the car. I'd be happy to provide info on my wrecks with vin #.

 

[steve911]

Tom, I knew I'd catch your eye with that one....

But back to the subject at hand, what liability is incurred if wrecked, rebuilt branded cars published in a public are put on the list. A disclaimer of sorts would be posted on "our" list and the ultimate responsibility would still rest with the prospective buyer.

I seems like a real no brainer.

Those like Markus from Germany with first hand knowledge about previously personally owned cars that have been wrecked, there would be no liability regardless of what status a car was in subsequent to his onwership. Wrecked is wrecked, regardless of what a title would say.

Steve A.

 

[dave6666]

Herein lies the problem. To get accurate and reliable information the people that own or have the cars would have to provide it. I mean, where else would the info come from? No brainer #1.

So there is as has been volunteered, info about many cars that would be available for this database by trustworthy and respected VCA members. No brainer #2.

But don't you think that the cars that really need to be on that list are the ones that the info will not be volunteered for? The ones that are spotted on ebay with the questions that are thrown all over this forum? "Look at that hood, it must have been wrecked!" And if you think that the VCA will support these unsubstantiated speculations that set them up for slander lawsuits then... well... No brainer #3.

I'm not trying to say this isn't a good ides. I'm just trying to point out that the cars you really need the info on are possibly the cars that are in the possession of either dishonest people or people that would rather you not know the situation with them. Which goes back to my first statement that your list is only as good as the data you will get.

 

[steve911]

I am referring to the cars that are obviouslty wrecked and or have salvage/branded titles. This takes all the subjectivity out of the mix.

In your example, If some one presents info "such as look a the hood it must have been wrecked" merely asking the question about the vehicle title with either confirm or deny the validity of the statement.

I am not interesested in started a database that has info on say, you for example repainted your hood cause you bumped into the lawn mower going into the garage.

I could care less about that info. I would venture to guess that there has been tons of paint sprayed on the entire "fleet" since its inception in '92. Most of which we will never know about.

Take a look at Ebay today. If I counted correctly there are 9 wrecked vipers for sale plus a couple with rebuilt titles. those are the no brainers to add to the list for future reference. I don't look at auto trader so I have no info from them.

There are folks who watch the regional salvage auctions too. The vehicles listed there are wrecked or theft recoveries all documented... No heresay

Another source of reliable info is John B, Xvipers, and viper paul to name a few. They receive vehicles regularly that could be placed on the list also.

As I said before we wont catch everything. I didnt start this with that utopian thought. I would like to catch as many as I can though....

I will be in the market for an addtional viper within the next few months. Every car that I may run across will not have been owned by a member of the club who may be able to speak about it.

I hate Carfax, unreliable as hell. Any tool that I can create or get access to to help me in my search will benefit me and others.

Steve A.

 

[Sapphire RT/Tn]

Seems like a good idea but wouldn't CarFax do the same thing?

You can't always trust carfax. From my own personal experience, a good carfax report means NOTHING!!! If a wrecked Viper is fixed by a "friend" carfax will know nothing about it.

If there was such a "BEWARE OF" list, I would have added one to it last year and saved someone from buying a wrecked viper with a perfect carfax report.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

I go back to this - how hard is it to spot a rebuilt car? Maybe we can have a poll about whether a buyer has ever been fooled a lot, a little, or not at all?

 

[Gimpala63n70]

If you all need my help with this let me know, I think its a good idea. And I can supply the vins of the 20-40 totalled vipers Ive had here at my shop.

Just a thought.

-Tom G

 

[dave6666]

If a wrecked Viper is fixed by a "friend" carfax will know nothing about it.

That applies to any list or database.

 

[dave6666]

If you all need my help with this let me know, I think its a good idea. And I can supply the vins of the 20-40 totalled vipers Ive had here at my shop.

Just a thought.

-Tom G

Weren't they all parted out and the titles destroyed?

 

[99 R/T 10]

One old member here tried to do that a while back and was threaten with a lawsuit. Not sure who threatened him, but he stop taking number after that. I do have a partial database of some 40 cars that have been wrecked

 

[steve911]

What legitimate reason would there be to file a lawsuit? (not that some people need one). Sometimes the truth hurts....

 

[dave6666]

Maybe now with 2 people saying the same thing about the legal ramifications you no longer think I'm an idiot just trying to trash your thread?

A couple of other things I'm not is a vehicle dismantler or a lawyer. But arm chairing this I'll in my opinion give reason to why this task could be risky on an amateur basis.

There is probably some official means that clarifies a wrecked vehicle. File something with the DOT or State or DMV or local PD or whatever. But there is an official method for declaring and filing as such a wrecked vehicle as wrecked.

Now if you were to start an unofficial database collecting info about these wrecked cars - no official copies of documentation - I'd be willing to bet that in a court of law the pics and statements by the previous owner would be hearsay. And to someone that has less than honest, at least in our opinion less than honest motives, that's all you need to file a suit that might even stand up. Let alone a BS suit.

I would stay away from this. But that's what I would do.

 

[ViperGTS]

Where is your sense for justice, Dave? Take your gun and go for round

I´ve seen and met people who bought a Viper and they had to learn later that the car was poorly repaired - after an accident. If we do not collect the data now, the information will be lost soon ...

 

[viperbob]

I'm all for it ...some data is better than no data:

I wrecked a '06 Red Vert. in Jan. 07 and I bought it back from the insurance company and sold it to a guy (name known but withheld) who fixed it up and added a Street Serpent kit. The VIN# is 1B3JZ65Z55V500543

 

[Dom426h]

I go back to this - how hard is it to spot a rebuilt car?

Depends on experience. Some of us can spot bodywork at first glance at a car. While others(99.some% of the population) couldnt tell the diff between a solid car and one with body work.
Hell, i have people asking me all the time if my 97GTS is BRAND NEW!!!

My opinion, The OP 911 looking for a used viper is Paranoide and dosnt want to be fooled into buying a repaired car.

I think a better idea, would be to create (in the illustrated upgrades section), a How-To on thoroughly inspecting a viper focusing on bodywork and frame inspection.

 

[Red Devil]

Is there any sense in developing a data base to help track the VIN's of the cars that get wrecked, rebuilt and re-sold sometimes without properly being documented?

It seems to me that I have noticed alot more wrecked Vipers being sold on EBay and other sites of late. Having a database set up to track as many cars as possible may help someone down the road months or years later when a car could reappear repaired and perhaps offered as though it was never wrecked.

Some might say that it might too late to start as there are many cars out there already, but I say its never too late to start.

This could also include cars that are being offered with branded titles already repaired, because we all have seen or heard about a salvage title in one state could mean a clear title in another.

The process doesnt have to be complicated and the results could be accessible to all VCA members.

thanks for listening
Steve A.

HATE to sound like a DUMB&&ss but I need help. Somehow I have clicked on something that has changed this sites look.When I click on Forums the background is BLUE and everything is stacked on top. I can read the stuff but it is a pain. Cant see who posted what until I click on it. ANYONE KNOW whatI can do to go back to the normal looking page??? What can I do??? HELP MODERATER!!!! ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!! YOu can PM me if you know what to do to fix this.THanks

 

[Dom426h]

so why did you have to quote the OP to tell us about your problem?
please delete your current post and repost here:
http://forums.viperclub.org/board-site-questions-suggestions/
a moderator will contact you.

 

[dave6666]

Where is your sense for justice, Dave? Take your gun and go for round

Why waste bullets on this? I only seek revenge on those that tread on me.

I am all about the data, but one more time here, the data will be limited to simply the honest people that want to give it up. The rest, and it is the ones you are looking to avoid buying their cars, are not willing. Hence I call this quest senseless, and of interference with my drinking time.

 

[eliems]

If you google the VIN listed above ... 1B3JZ65Z55V500543 you will see this thread. That is how easy it will be to check out a car!

If you (somehow) got my VIN (perfect accident free car) on your wrecked Viper List I would stop at nothing (legally speaking) to get my VIN removed!

So ... there is serious accountability needed for a list like this. Research and confirmation would be required. Hearsay or access to the list by just anyone with a grudge and a phony username would spell disaster and bring a lawsuit.

Also, what is the definition of "Wrecked"?

 

[steve911]

something with a Salvage, rebuilt, or reconstructed title to me qualifies as wrecked.

Steve A.

 

[WANTED]

It will be as helpful as the data is accurate and the data providers are honest.

Do you think everyone is going to pony up their salvage title info for the world to see?

Um...

LMAO, Dave I have my salvage title in my hand. I sold my car to JonB without giving him the title, he didn't need it. It would be great if all guy's were like JonB and did what they said they were going to do, PART IT OUT.

SO DAVE, YES I WILL PONY UP MY TITLE FOR ALL TO SEE, WATCH FOR MY NEXT POST, I NEED TO SCAN IT.

WANTED