Streetracing....why?

[lankhoss]

I think you're purposefully missing the point.

The 170 mph was mentioned by another poster. I merely used it in the example. Your positions rely upon several assumptions as did the street racer's position (the road would be clear). You're assuming that someone will back off, the car will perform as designed and that the road will be clear and in good condition. Three assumptions combined with uncontrolled conditions (street v track) does equal more dangerous.

If you are risking your own life, fine have at it.

Seems like a Viper Days event would make more sense.

I make the same assumption when I drive my car everyday, be it at 150mph, or 60.

Does that make me a bad person?

You are taking VERY extreme and super RARE situatins and making them out to be the norm. There's probably less than 1% greater chance of all this terrible stuff happening just because someone is racing, than there is if they're going the speed limit. There are certain things out of your control in this world, and the quicker you learn to accept that the more free you can live.

 

[lankhoss]

Oh, and by the way....BOTTLEFED is my new hero

 

[DAMN YANKEE]

"you're scared of your car, you're a wuss, you know you'd lose"

now get at the end of the line...

thrusters on...

You must be registered for see images

 

[BOTTLEFED]

Sorry Dan but this had to be the fastest Batmobile ever

You must be registered for see images

it even looks like a Viper!

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Sorry Dan but this had to be the fastest Batmobile ever

You must be registered for see images

it even looks like a Viper!

Fast too and the front end is hung like a horse.

 

[dun4791]

Okay, so you are saying it's OKAY to street race, but only if you determine that it is safe and there are no pedestrians in the area.

Is it legal is your state? Is it legal in any state? Why not?

Is shooting someone for running into your car while they were street racing legal in your state?

Do you carry while you are driving? Im betting if you tried shooting someone in a traffic altercation around the Chicago area you would have a gun fight on your hands. It wouldnt be just you going up to the car and shooting someone. Im betting you wouldnt spend ANY time in jail, tuff guy.

 

[Bobpantax]

Is shooting someone for running into your car while they were street racing legal in your state?

No. Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer. However, if you have just spent all day cleaning, waxing and buffing your car, and this occurs, you may be able to argue temporary insanity. LOL.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

In NY they do. First offense = walking.

It doesn't seem to have mattered much. 37% of NY traffic fatalities are alcohol related. The national average is 39%.

Not arguing with you, just listing the stats.

Our society's mindset needs to switch from naively thinking a problem can be eliminated, to providing compensation to the victim. At some point people are just gonna do what people are gonna do and stricter laws are not gonna change it much if at all - as is evident with drunk driving. I'd rather see a move towards garnished wages for victims than fines and penalties paid to cops and courts.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer.

Didn't Florida vote to approve guns in cars? Or are the operative words "within reach?"

 

[fastlane8]

This is all Chads fault! Lets get him!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s[/media]

 

[Frankster]

In Germany you've got the autoban. You can go really fast, right? Is there a speed limit? I wonder what the statistics are when it comes to driving the autoban? How come we don't have an autoban in the US? As Americans are we too stupid as drivers to handle one? Or are the Germans just smarter? Or the reverse?

Just as food for thought.............
In the late 80's I drove central Mexico to southern Texas at speeds over 100MPH for more than four hours total. It's very hard and tiring work. One little mistake and you are off the road before you know it. The level of concentration required to do this is incredible. I don't recommend it.

 

[kennyhemi]

In Germany you've got the autoban. You can go really fast, right? Is there a speed limit? I wonder what the statistics are when it comes to driving the autoban? How come we don't have an autoban in the US? As Americans are we too stuid as drivers to handle one? Or are the Germans just smarter? Or the reverse?

Just as food for thought.............
In the late 80's I drove central Mexico to southern Texas at speeds over 100MPH for more than four hours total. It's very hard and tiring work. One little mistake and you are off the road before you know it. The level of concentration required to do this is incredible. I don't recommend it.

Yes we have an autoban in the US it's called western Montana certain parts do not have posted speed limits, A few years back I was buzzing on an interstate in a rental ricer (floored) about 110 MPH and a highway partrol car passes me, looked over and like nothing kept on going. Now that's my kind of state! now if I can only get used to the sub zero weather I'd move there in a heart beat!

 

[lankhoss]

There are fewer fatalities on the Autobahn than there are on US interstates each year.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Is shooting someone for running into your car while they were street racing legal in your state? NO

The membership was debating what would you do if someone is street racing, lost control of their car, slammed in to yours and killed your lovely wife, two beautiful kids and your pet dog.

Would you buy them a beer?

Do you carry while you are driving? YES

I'm betting if you tried shooting someone in a traffic altercation around the Chicago area you would have a gun fight on your hands.

You say ...if you tried shooting someone... you would have a gun fight on your hands
wouldn't it then be too late for a gunfight? LOL

Road rage: No, I wouldn't put myself in that type of situation.
I am a very kind, considerate and rational person with a lot of common sense and would avoid those situations like you describe at all cost.

Lets hope something like your poor example never happens to any of us, as someone could get seriously hurt or killed. We see it all the time down here, and I'm sure all over the country.

Now if you are asking me throughout life, if I am an innocent bystander, a law abiding citizen, a pillar of the communituy and I felt my life was in danger would I protect myself (self-defense), and use deadly force, the simple answer is yes, of course.

If someone takes out a weapon, they better be legally justified and prepared to use it.

I would never do something as foolish as to get into an altercation with someone else while driving a car, down here its called road rage, but if I felt my life was in imminent danger, I would always take decisive action at all cost.

It wouldnt be just you going up to the car and shooting someone.
Im betting you wouldnt spend ANY time in jail, tuff guy.

Tuff guy? no
Jail? Never
You be the tuff guy. I am the guy that cries at movies, no tuff guy here. Furthermore, since I don't wear a cape like you, I use protection.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer.

No, its not.

 

[1BADGTS]

In NJ we have the highest concentration of people per square mile in the US in accordinace we also have some of the toughest traffic laws anyone has ever seen.For example -DWI first offence mandatory loss of licence 7 months .Lawyer fees ,insurance fines surcharge in excess of 10 grand plus possible jail.(the second offence the penalitys double and in some aspects tripple )If you caught racing on the highway the penalitys are just as bad as DWI because the cops compound the ticket by adding other tickets to it (speeding and reckless driving).You could have a perfect driving record COMPLETELY RUINED resulting in losing your licence and massive fines for one offence.

 

[Mopar488]

Is shooting someone for running into your car while they were street racing legal in your state?

No. Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer. However, if you have just spent all day cleaning, waxing and buffing your car, and this occurs, you may be able to argue temporary insanity. LOL.

A friend of mine got pulled over in VA recently and the officer asked him if he had his gun with him. The friend replied no and asked the officer why and the officer said he ran his tag and found he had a CWP. The officer told my friend that he could have the gun anywhere in the car, in the glovebox, on his body, loaded and all, but he should tell the officer that he has it and the officer has the right to take the gun back to his car while he is writing you the ticket. This is just for VA as far as I know.

 

[dave6666]

This is one interesting thread. Chad says he's tired of the race challenges, and now we're talking about the rights of someone to pack a gun while racing and shooting at each other.

I'm game.

 

[eucharistos]

A friend of mine got pulled over in VA recently and the officer asked him if he had his gun with him. The friend replied no and asked the officer why and the officer said he ran his tag and found he had a CWP. The officer told my friend that he could have the gun anywhere in the car, in the glovebox, on his body, loaded and all, but he should tell the officer that he has it and the officer has the right to take the gun back to his car while he is writing you the ticket. This is just for VA as far as I know.

same in Texas

Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer.

not same in Texas

 

[eucharistos]

This is all Chads fault! Lets get him!

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkMkGOpAF4s[/media]

haha

no good deed ever goes unpunished

Yes we have an autoban in the US it's called western Montana certain parts do not have posted speed limits, A few years back I was buzzing on an interstate in a rental ricer (floored) about 110 MPH and a highway partrol car passes me, looked over and like nothing kept on going. Now that's my kind of state! now if I can only get used to the sub zero weather I'd move there in a heart beat!

montana ..... hhuummmmm

 

[Bobpantax]

Law in Florida regarding access to weapon in car from State website ( emphasis added):

QUESTION 6. I am planning a trip to Florida shortly. I do not have a permit from my home state nor do I want to obtain a Florida permit. However, I would still like to have a weapon with me for self-protection. What are my options?

Florida law does allow a citizen to transport a weapon in a private vehicle, even if that citizen DOES NOT HAVE a concealed weapon license. Note the following two key provisions in the law:
Section 790.25(5), which deals specifically with possession in a private conveyance states that "it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012." (Emphasis added.)

Section 790.001(17) defines the term "securely encased" to mean "in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."

So, while you cannot carry the weapon on your person, you can at least have it nearby in your vehicle while traveling.

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Law in Florida regarding access to weapon in car from State website ( emphasis added):

QUESTION 6. I am planning a trip to Florida shortly. I do not have a permit from my home state nor do I want to obtain a Florida permit. However, I would still like to have a weapon with me for self-protection. What are my options?

Florida law does allow a citizen to transport a weapon in a private vehicle, even if that citizen DOES NOT HAVE a concealed weapon license. Note the following two key provisions in the law:
Section 790.25(5), which deals specifically with possession in a private conveyance states that "it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012." (Emphasis added.)

Section 790.001(17) defines the term "securely encased" to mean "in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."

So, while you cannot carry the weapon on your person, you can at least have it nearby in your vehicle while traveling.

Bob, you said and I will quote:

No. Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer

This is an incorrect statement you made earlier, as I do have the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in my possession.
Matter of fact, I have the right to carry it in all but a couple states in the US.

 

[99 R/T 10]

Hey Bob,
just curious. I know FL recognizes Alabama's CWP too, but we are allowed to carry on us at all times(except bars, courthouse etc.). So with conflicting requirements, would the cops really care?

 

[Sellshomesdrivesviper]

Hey Bob,
just curious. I know FL recognizes Alabama's CWP too, but we are allowed to carry on us at all times(except bars, courthouse etc.). So with conflicting requirements, would the cops really care?

Bobs example question was from someone who had "NO permit" from his home state.
So if you have a CWP, and the state of Florida recognizes your state, and your state recognizes ours, and you have your license, you can carry a CW at all times, except for those certain places that are not allowed, i.e sporting events, bars, Fed buildings, etc., etc.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

There are fewer fatalities on the Autobahn than there are on US interstates each year.

From Modern Marvels...
U.S. about 8 fatalities per million miles travelled.
Autobahn about 7 fatalities per million miles travelled.

Not an overly significant difference.

One thing about the Autobahn is they are very strict about tailgating which is probably the leading cause of highway accidents in the U.S. but our mindset is always "speed kills" and besides, it's much easier to tax speeders than it is tailgaters.

 

[belair1957]

I make the same assumption when I drive my car everyday, be it at 150mph, or 60.

Does that make me a bad person?

You are taking VERY extreme and super RARE situatins and making them out to be the norm. There's probably less than 1% greater chance of all this terrible stuff happening just because someone is racing, than there is if they're going the speed limit. There are certain things out of your control in this world, and the quicker you learn to accept that the more free you can live.

To assume that the risk of traveling 88 feet/sec is the same as 220 feet/sec (150mph) is nonsense. The energy of a crash is directly related to speed, that's why they engineer race cars to fly apart.

If you choose to ignore the risk or to accept it fine. Just don't harm anyone else while doing so. You can ignore the laws of man but not the laws of physics.

I forgot two assumptions in the prior post, that the other driver has the skill to control their car and their car is in racing condition. Yes traveling at highway speed involves risk but at normal speeds you have the time to react and avoid.

As far as super rare, check out some of the threads on this forum discussing death due to street racing. I remember at least one thread from earlier this year. If you had taken the time to simply search this forum or Google "deaths due to street racing" you would have found the following:

- In San Diego, where the street racing problem has been termed "epidemic," 16 deaths and 31 injuries were directly related to illegal street racing in 2001.

- In 2001, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reported that police listed street racing as a factor in 135 fatal crashes. The total was up from 72 street-racing-related fatalities reported in 2000.

- In 1999, the Florida Department of Highway and Safety for Motor Vehicles reported 28 accidents related to illegal street racing, with 2 fatalities and 27 injuries. In 2000, the agency reported 39 racing accidents, with 1 fatality and 55 injuries. In 2002, there were 48 racing accidents, 1 fatality, and 60 injuries.

-According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 804 people were killed in racing-related crashes between 2001 and 2006. California had 188 of those deaths, with Texas second at 128. After declining in the first half of the decade, street-racing deaths are on the rise again, climbing roughly 35 percent from 111 in 2005 to 150 in 2006, NHTSA said.

As far as living free, hey I scuba and will soon be purchasing a motorcycle. I have no problem with risk, but I choose not to expose third parties to my risk.

The surest way to lose the privilege of driving Vipers and Vettes is to behave irresponsibly on the streets. If you don't think this is a possibility, consider how much of the car is dictated by Federal regulations. As sports car drivers we are a minority without Consitutional protection.

 

[belair1957]

One thing about the Autobahn is they are very strict about tailgating which is probably the leading cause of highway accidents in the U.S. but our mindset is always "speed kills" and besides, it's much easier to tax speeders than it is tailgaters.

This morning in a driving rain storm on the way to the office a mini-van was following me at less than a car length at 65mph. She was driving with her elbows while talking on the phone.

 

[Bobpantax]

Bob, you said and I will quote:

No. Furthermore it is illegal to have a gun within reach inside the vehicle even with a concealed weapon permit unless you are a police officer

This is an incorrect statement you made earlier, as I do have the legal right to carry a concealed weapon in my possession.
Matter of fact, I have the right to carry it in all but a couple states in the US.

Yes. My initial wording was a little imprecise. But note I used the phrase " within reach". The statute in Florida provides that the weapon can be carried inside the vehicle as long as it is "securely encased". So, subject to the admission that the original langauge was a bit sloppy, I stand by the assertion that it is illegal for the weapon to be in reach. It is sort of a two step rule to avoid emotional acting out.

Note the following from the State of Florida website FAQs:

Section 790.001(17) defines the term "securely encased" to mean "in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access."

So, while you cannot carry the weapon on your person, you can at least have it nearby in your vehicle while traveling.

 

[Bobpantax]

Bobs example question was from someone who had "NO permit" from his home state.
So if you have a CWP, and the state of Florida recognizes your state, and your state recognizes ours, and you have your license, you can carry a CW at all times, except for those certain places that are not allowed, i.e sporting events, bars, Fed buildings, etc., etc.

Not correct. Read the Florida Statute cited and the example more carefully. The weapon must be "securely encased" if it is in the vehicle even if you have a CWP.

 

[Bobpantax]

Hey Bob,
just curious. I know FL recognizes Alabama's CWP too, but we are allowed to carry on us at all times(except bars, courthouse etc.). So with conflicting requirements, would the cops really care?

I would not test the theory. One of the reasons for the "securely encased " rule is for the protection of police officers. Look at it from a Florida Highway Patrol officer's viewpoint. You stop a car without of state plates. As you come up to the car, you notice that the driver is wearing a gun. What would you do? I think a prudent officer would immediately call for back up.