Striker Heads and Cam on GenIII

[Viper Specialty]

Just dont want to see anyone get ripped off buddy.

You post your Stryker retail cost to customer
I will post my GG heads & cam invoice.

I am not here to get into it with you. Nor am I here to rip anyone off. The simple fact that you brought up "ripping off" and a reference to me in the same post only goes to show you have your head buried in the sand... or perhaps in an alternate location.

If Tom would like to compare notes with you, that is his choice.

I just don't seem to grasp why you are bashing Strikers- they are an excellent piece at a VERY good price point. If you add in GG porting, Jesels, Spacers, Valvetrain, Pushrods, a G3 head core and a Cam, you are OVER the price of the Strikers in most cases. Its fine to love GG and his work that much- but to blindly bash everyone and everything involved with the alternative, is a tad shortsighted.

If it makes you feel better, I already had contacted Greg about this, before Strikers came into the equation. And now, NEITHER of them look to be the direction this is going as I pointed out earlier- so, what is the point here?

 

[dipapa]

Good to hear good news. Only with customers desire for serious performance which creates a market and a builders knowhow & craftmanship to push the envelop of performance will the naturally aspirated Viper be one of the greatest most desirable supercars to own. I'm just trying to emphasize the balance between customer costs and viper high hp and quality to keep us all going strong and even further develop the viper naturally aspirated performance market better, stronger, faster.

As a customer I commend every Viper builder, and there are not many viper builders across the nation in general, for challenging themselves and providing us customers real rock solid high performance and quality and for contributing to serious Viper aftermarket motor development.

I'm glad your builder is satisfying your high performance goals and building some good stuff.

Great to hear!!!

dipapa I am not sure what you are trying to get at since Dan is one of the most valued experts in the Viper community and a straight shooter. Dan has gone above and beyond my expectations in helping me with identifying the best setup for me. In fact he has talked me into spending less money on a package more suited to my wish list and expectations. He could have easily let me spend more on a package that he would have made more but would be overkill for me.

Viper Specialty is successful for two reasons; the knowledge they bring to the table and their business etiquette.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Dan, I apologize for my customer. Try not to hold it against him. He is simply trying to defend my name. I was singled out by name in this thread, so maybe you can see that he might think you are trying to take food off my plate.

Anyway, it's all good, and there is plenty of work to go around. I know God has blessed me with a lot lately.

If price is such a concern, maybe I should call and get a few prices myself of competitors in your area and post it online? We wouldn't anyone to pay more for the same thing now would we?

 

[Viper Specialty]

If price is such a concern, maybe I should call and get a few prices myself of competitors in your area and post it online? We wouldn't anyone to pay more for the same thing now would we?

Nice backhanded comment there Greg. You are welcome to try. I know you can find another shop around here that is cheaper, but I hope you don't mind having your customer be the guinea pig for the first Viper they have ever worked on

Ah well, there are alternative Vendors and options out there as we all know. I apologize for bringing you into this... at all. You and I both know there is, and has long been bad blood between us. I was willing to let it slide and tried to toss some business your way- Sorry?

 

[dipapa]

Hey Dan, didn't mean for all the raucus here.

I just recall last year when getting info on gen3 heads everyone saying at the time strykers were very high costs relative to other heads setups too.

With the complete stryker head, valvetrain & cam it sounds like many of us thought that too.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Nice backhanded comment there Greg. You are welcome to try. I know you can find another shop around here that is cheaper, but I hope you don't mind having your customer be the guinea pig for the first Viper they have ever worked on

Ah well, there are alternative Vendors and options out there as we all know. I apologize for bringing you into this... at all. You and I both know there is, and has long been bad blood between us. I was willing to let it slide and tried to toss some business your way- Sorry?

Well Dan, I did not know there was bad blood between us. If so, it is on your end, not mine. If what you say is true, then why did you call me the other day asking me to port a set of Gen 3 heads? Confusing to say the least.

I have read all of your posts in this thread saying that my heads are priced too high. I think you are being hypocritical. I looked at the prices on your website for various parts and I think you are priced very high. *Viper tax high* if I may be so bold as to say. Ask Dimitri if he paid too much for his heads. He got what he paid for. The meanest set of gen 3 heads I could do, and they make tons of power. let me ask you, have yuo put together a build that makes 654 rwhp?...or are you content to tell people that 580 is better because it has more bottom end? Yeah.....that's one thing Vipers lack is bottom end power.

You list a Gen 3 camshaft for $784. I sell them all day long for $600. And mine will make more power.

Trend pushrods for $243? I sell them for $175

I don't see a price for lifters, but I seriously doubt you sell them for $250 like me.

$6200 for rods and pistons?

Jesel rocker arms for $2300 when the $1500 T&D's I sell will do the same job?

And you're worried about the prices Viper owners pay?

 

[dipapa]

I'll be glad to bring my mechanical metrology equipment over and inspect down to a very conservative half thousandth.

 

[viperbilliam]

Dan and Greg:

Can either one of you toss out some cam specs for what we are talking about here? Like the torque vs hp? It's a lot easier for me (maybe us) to feel out if we can compare it to the stock cam (got those too?). I like to compare the lift, duration at .050, and overlap. Although ******* the valvetrain, I like to see short duration (but more than stock) high lift cams. I believe these give good power over a broad rpm band. Agree?

 

[Viper Specialty]

Well Dan, I did not know there was bad blood between us. If so, it is on your end, not mine. If what you say is true, then why did you call me the other day asking me to port a set of Gen 3 heads? Confusing to say the least.

Thats funny... considering I know we have definitely had our quarrels in the past Not that they were THAT big of a deal.

I have read all of your posts in this thread saying that my heads are priced too high. I think you are being hypocritical. I looked at the prices on your website for various parts and I think you are priced very high. *Viper tax high* if I may be so bold as to say. Ask Dimitri if he paid too much for his heads. He got what he paid for. The meanest set of gen 3 heads I could do, and they make tons of power. let me ask you, have yuo put together a build that makes 654 rwhp?...or are you content to tell people that 580 is better because it has more bottom end? Yeah.....that's one thing Vipers lack is bottom end power.

-Nowhere in this thread did I say anything about your heads being "overpriced".
-I leave the Cam choice up to the customer, or base it on what THEY tell me they want, or go by the recommendation of the person who is doing the heads- EXACTLY the case here.
-No, I don't build 654 RWHP cars. I shoot for a lot higher than that usually

You list a Gen 3 camshaft for $784. I sell them all day long for $600. And mine will make more power.

That is a Mopar part, put there by request. I dont set pricing on it... nice try.

Trend pushrods for $243? I sell them for $175

Congrats? Are they exactly the same part? They make a dozen variants.

I don't see a price for lifters, but I seriously doubt you sell them for $250 like me.

Actually, I do, if part of a package.

$6200 for rods and pistons?

Try making a set of loaded, coated CP pistons and Carrillo rods w/bearings... and we will see where you end up? I just wrote a check for a set of $4000.00 connecting rods the other day... I don't think they know they are going in a Viper... so its hard to say Viper Tax.

Jesel rocker arms for $2300 when the $1500 T&D's I sell will do the same job?

I prefer Jesel over T&D, as do many people.

And you're worried about the prices Viper owners pay?

This has ZERO to do with pricing really, you have just decided to turn it into that. Pricing was never even brought up until a few people decided to jump on the "Strikers are out of this world expensive because..." bandwagon. I never said one was better, or cheaper, or more expensive, or a better bang for the buck. I said they were ABOUT EVEN, and it doesn't really matter money wise which option you choose.

I think it is hilarious that you are attempting to make this about "me" like you are protecting these guys from the big bad custom parts manufacturers or something. Custom, top end parts have a big price tag. This shouldn't be a surprise... and you should also be smart enough to realize that as a Vendor, it isn't MY SHOW. I dont dictate what Carrillo charges to make a set of rods, nor do I control what JM charges for a set of heads. I only dictate the prices of the parts that I make, and the packages that I build. Its quite simple.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

-No, I don't build 654 RWHP cars. I shoot for a lot higher than that usually

Please enlighten us all to the N/A Gen 3 you built that made more than 654 rwhp.

You try to act like an expert when it comes to cylinder heads, but you don't port heads, ergo you're a sophist when it comes to head talk. You buy them and bolt them on. That's it.

I've disagreed with a few key points in your posts about port sizing, etc. i think you're out in the weeds, but have remained silent. I don't want to embarrass you or anyone else. It's not good for business to talk down to people. Just keep my name out of things when you advertise and I'll stay out of yours and your customers threads. My guys are happy and that's all I care about.

Carry on.


Now I'm off to post a thread with my non Viper tax prices for cams, lifters, pushrods etc.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Please enlighten us all to the N/A Gen 3 you built that made more than 654 rwhp.

You try to act like an expert when it comes to cylinder heads, but you don't port heads, ergo you're a sophist when it comes to head talk. You buy them and bolt them on. That's it.

I've disagreed with a few key points in your posts about port sizing, etc. i think you're out in the weeds, but have remained silent. I don't want to embarrass you or anyone else. It's not good for business to talk down to people. Just keep my name out of things when you advertise and I'll stay out of yours and your customers threads. My guys are happy and that's all I care about.

Carry on.


Now I'm off to post a thread with my non Viper tax prices for cams, lifters, pushrods etc.

Another hilarious post. I never said ONE THING about head porting, design, cam profiles, etc that wasnt a generalized comment or referencing someone elses products. While you are trying to make me out to be the bad guy here, you might want to look in the mirror. You are the one who is creating this argument out of thin air. [Gee, a little like a few years ago when you created that slew of arguments out of thin air as well because you knew you didn't have a leg to actually stand on with regard to doing things in a timely manner?]

If you had bothered to actually know anything about me or what I do- you know, the one you are claiming to know so much about- you would have figured out long ago that I DON'T SPEC OR PACKAGE N/A BUILDS. They are not what I do, and have NEVER been. I sidestepped them into Forced Induction a loooooooong time ago. The only time I will put one together is when I am asked to do so.

If all else fails, you bash the other guy with claims of no base. I talked you up to a lot of people over the years because I knew you did good work, regardless of what I thought of you personally. I guess from now on, I will just save my breath.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Look, please do as I asked, and leave my name out of your head comparisons in the future. I don't need the drama. I can get this at home for free.

Here's a term that will work;

The *X* head I am offering is better than a ported stock casting.

Of course, it would be nice if you could demonstrate it as well, but that might be asking too much.

Have you informed Tom of the Gen 4 heads/intake package that will be available soon? Maybe he would like to wait for them.

It would not surprise me to see you kick Jeff to the curb when you get your hands on them. That's what tuners do.

 

[plumcrazy]

do i need to separate you two ?

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

I'm done if he is.

An admin could possibly point out to him that his site sponsor status does not entitle him to hurt other vendors business.

 

[Viper Specialty]

I'm done if he is.

An admin could possibly point out to him that his site sponsor status does not entitle him to hurt other vendors business.

Wow... how does having a price point comparison on an open forum regarding two products BROUGHT UP BY THE CUSTOMERS THEMSELVES constitute hurting another persons business, yet spouting off unfounded facts and comments about another business... somehow not constitute the same? Check yourself Greg.

Perhaps you should blame the customers on the website for all of this? After all, they were the ones who *gasp* were trying to get the information.

You act like a customer who asks for information on another product and a vendor who steps in to correct misinformation on pricing is a conspiracy.

Tin foil hats. Tin foil hats.

Now I am done.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Pour all the Kool-Aid you want Dan, just leave my name out of it.

I can back up my hp claims. You can keep argueing how 580-600 rwhp is good enough for your guys.

My guys aren't buying it. I don't get off that easy.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Pour all the Kool-Aid you want Dan, just leave my name out of it.

Will do Greg.

I will stay over here and keep building ridiculous Twin Turbo cars pushing the boundaries of technologies instead.

You keep fighting the good fight... I will let my customers decide what they want out of their cars instead. Ultimately, its their dollar, their decision, and they are the driver.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Dan and Greg:

Can either one of you toss out some cam specs for what we are talking about here? Like the torque vs hp? It's a lot easier for me (maybe us) to feel out if we can compare it to the stock cam (got those too?). I like to compare the lift, duration at .050, and overlap. Although ******* the valvetrain, I like to see short duration (but more than stock) high lift cams. I believe these give good power over a broad rpm band. Agree?

My normal cam is a Comp Cams 232/236/114 in at 110 ATDC. This cam will make good power all the way up to 6000 rpm, and will boil the tires right off the rims in 1st and 2nd gear with street tires. It's about as lopey as most people like, and pulls enough vacuum idling to not trigger the power enrichment circuit in the computer.

It has about .660" lift intake and .610" exhaust with T&D 1.7 rockers. You need springs and retainers to run it. The stock springs won't make the cut.

 

[Greg Good Cylinder Heads]

Will do Greg.

You keep fighting the good fight... I will let my customers decide what they want out of their cars instead. Ultimately, its their dollar, their decision, and they are the driver.

By all means! The customer is always right.

 

[X-Metal]

greg, i have a set of Gen4 heads i am going to send you soon. keep up the good work.

 

[dipapa]

If the VCA continues to be this interesting a membership rate could be charged.

Keep up the good work gentlemen and let the customer satisfaction, motor performance, dyno numbers& track times and be the benchmarks that drive us all.

Hey Greg I will call you about that built chevy motor I'm interested in.

 

[Atppilot]

I'm going to chime in on this one. Thanks to Greg I have fantastic heads and cam package on my Gen III. Awesome power - just downloaded my first tune from Chris at DC Performance. Not going to comment on the previous issues, but I do know that Greg delivers!!!!

 

[AbsolutHank]

I'm not gonna lie, this thread got a little bit ackward at times! Love the passion regardless

 

[Nader]

Yeah this one did get interesting but I would rather this thread on topic.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Hey Greg, did you get my check yet?

 

[Lee00blacksilverGTS]

Thread closed. I have not seen anything this silly in years. And I actually read it carefully to see if I could make some sense of it and I can't.
The last post which has been removed actually tried to make a case for an "east coast attitude" as it relates to tuners.
And that's the point where it no longer makes sense to continue.