Supercharger Installation Lead Times

[cstegall]

Jim,

I can't really give you a time frame on the SC install but can tell you that you don't want to rush it. My car is an '01 GTS and is currently at DLM getting a Stage III+ system with some modifications to be done on the engine. Doug takes his time and the product he turns out is absolutely the best. Check with Ben Treynor,Gerald and Dr Roof...they have their cars and can certainly give you a complete story on a DLM Viper.

Good luck with your project.

Clark

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Hi, I am considering doing a big HP infusion soon on either a 02 GTS or new SRT. One of my main considerations is turnaround times. I know the Roe kit goes on in a day, but I dont think that a little over 600 rwhp will do it for me.

So I was hoping that some of you who have either the DLM or Heffner systems could comment on how long it took for your Viper upgrade. I know both tuners are respected and I am not looking to compare power, timeslips, dynos, etc. I just want to get a feel for how long I should reasonably expect for a given level of power. I am probably going to go for 800+ rwhp so I will be upgrading pistons, rods, etc. I do plan to contact each respective tuner to inquire on the status of their turnarounds. But prior to doing so, I wanted to get as much direct info from actual owners as I can. Your help is much appreciated. Thank you.

Jim Stark

Jim, I can tell you my car has been at Jason Heffner's for less than 2 months. I am having done what you are contemplating doing with the rods and pistons and remachining the engine block/balance/blueprint/etc...Heads/cam/etc... I know the whole engine disassembly was done in a matter of days from when the car was dropped off. The custom billet rods have been made, pistons have been made, and all the machining, balancing, blueprinting has all been done, the heads are done, and the parts just got back to Jason yesterday or today. I have requested some other things that I am not at liberty to discuss just yet that are being R&D'd at the moment that will take a bit more time to complete in the manner that all Jason Heffner fabrication and engineering is famous for...... If you want these things done to your car, you obviously will not have to wait the same time it took to engineer/fabricate/test the first one like mine did. Jason will have ten of them made after the first one so they will be ready to go for whoever wants them next. Jason already has been working on the gen 3 motor/heads/etc, so he will be ready to work his magic on the new one if you want. I do not know if you saw the pictures of his twin supercharger he did from scratch on .org here that were posted a few days ago. Hope this helps, Paolo

 

[OutThere]

Does Heffner have a SC package for the Gen1?

 

[Tom86ZT]

From the looks of things (i.e. twin superchargers for a Diablo) and from stuff I've heard about heffner, he could fabricate anything for anycar, just depends how much you wanna spend.

tom

 

[ExecUtron Technologies]

On March 5th of this year, my Viper will have been at DLM for one year. Is it worth it? Yes! When will it be done? Don't know...

He's not working on anything else until mine is finished.

Go with DLM, as you won't regret it!

 

[J DAWG]

I have requested some other things that I am not at liberty to discuss just yet that are being R&D'd at the moment that will take a bit more time to complete in the manner that all Jason Heffner fabrication and engineering is famous for......
Paolo

[/QUOTE]


Paolo

That was wrong of you to drop a bomb on us like that and expect us to just wait patiently while "this" is being done. Guess I am going to have to call Jason and bug him. Just means the more time he is on the phone with me, the more time he is away from your car. So you better fess up.

 

[ExecUtron Technologies]

...to supercharge your Viper? Wow, DLM should pay you for your patience and support! Seriously, tell us what it dyno's when its done. I am considering more power, but if it take you a year to get your car and there are 10 cars behind yours that are waiting too, then I would just prefer to wait for the 2007 Viper.

It's not exactly fair to compare the work Doug (DLM) is performing on my Viper to other jobs of this type. It's like comparing a foot-rub to a full spa treatment! Rest assured DLM can finish a standard "Supercharger" job just a fast as anyone else. The difference is that mine is something new and unique that others needn't purchase. I am willing to spend the money and wait. I want only the best (and the most). DLM has several plans to meet everyone's time table. I am in the "unlimited" class, so it is not right to compare my job to DLM's standard packages. The only thing my package has in common with the standard packages is the absolute attention to quality!

I am confident that DLM can supply you with what you want in an industry standard amount of time. He does work on several Vipers at once, and has a great crew.

 

[cstegall]

Hey Exec...
Would you hurry up and get your car finished ...so Doug can work on mine!

Your lack of patience would be appreciated,

Clark

 

[Bill/APEX Motorsports]

Hi, I am considering doing a big HP infusion soon on either a 02 GTS or new SRT. One of my main considerations is turnaround times. I know the Roe kit goes on in a day, but I dont think that a little over 600 rwhp will do it for me.

Jim, we're working with Paxton right now to get their Novi2000 supercharger kit to market. We'll be installing a version of their kit on our Lethal 750 '01 ACR next week. It promises to be a very upgrade-friendly kit.
(Over the years, we've installed and tuned over 300 Vortech and other supercharger kits on customers' Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and SUVs and are looking forward to the installation on our Viper!)
Installation of the kit with the air-to-water intercooler should be roughly 3-5 days, including dyno-tuning. Plus, the kit is 50-state legal! I'll keep you all updated on our progress and power numbers.
Here are a few pictures of the head unit:

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You must be registered for see images

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And here's an image of the Viper Novi2000 blower next to the venerable Vortech S-Trim. You can see how much bigger the Paxton is--it promises to have much higher flow and boost capabilities for the air-hungry Viper!

You must be registered for see images

 

[Joseph Dell]

3 times I've sent the car to DLM for "upgrades".

1st time, it was 6 or 7 weeks for a stage I. That took a stock motor to 557rwhp and 597rwtq. That was over 2 years ago, so I don't recall the exact timeline. I do recall saying "take your time" b/c he was doing some R&D on my car at the time. No problems there. and the car was perfect until I called him up for some "upgrades".

2nd time, the car was there for 7 days. I drove it down on a friday, and drove it back the next friday. Granted, there was a minor competition that we were prepping for, but when the car came back, it was 697rwhp and 695rwtq.

3rd time, I sent it in and said "take your time and get as much as you can out of it". Once we decided what the "basic" work would be, it has been close to 2 months. I say that b/c I changed horses mid-stream. Was going to go w/ one set of pistons, but then we changed up to a different set-up. Also changed up on some "custom" parts.

That was a minor time set-back. Other than that, this car should run with the best of them w/o NOS. ETA - less than 4 weeks.

I've seen Doug do complete systems in a week. The delays are mostly due to vendors taking their time with their part. Or getting their parts.

Try ordering piston rings or custom pistons for a Viper and see how long it takes to get them. Same with head porting work... it is a slow process.

On the other hand, I am apprecitive of the time he takes. And if I want to change things due to a need for speeding things up, that can happen. But for me, I am willing to wait in order to have it done right. And boy is it worth it.

And since we are talking about it, DLM used the Paxton Novi blower. And he is rumored to be messing with some bigger and badder blowers than that, but I don't recall which ones.

If you are interested in more detail, feel free to e-mail me and I'll be happy to relay my experiences.

Good luck! Either way you go, you'll love the power!

JD

 

[OutThere]

Bill. Will your system be available for a Gen1 Viper? Any idea on approx cost? Thanks

 

[Paolo Castellano]

I have requested some other things that I am not at liberty to discuss just yet that are being R&D'd at the moment that will take a bit more time to complete in the manner that all Jason Heffner fabrication and engineering is famous for......
Paolo

Paolo

That was wrong of you to drop a bomb on us like that and expect us to just wait patiently while "this" is being done. Guess I am going to have to call Jason and bug him. Just means the more time he is on the phone with me, the more time he is away from your car. So you better fess up.

[/QUOTE]

Jeremiah, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you! LOL! Paolo

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Hi, I am considering doing a big HP infusion soon on either a 02 GTS or new SRT. One of my main considerations is turnaround times. I know the Roe kit goes on in a day, but I dont think that a little over 600 rwhp will do it for me.

Jim, we're working with Paxton right now to get their Novi2000 supercharger kit to market. We'll be installing a version of their kit on our Lethal 750 '01 ACR next week. It promises to be a very upgrade-friendly kit.
(Over the years, we've installed and tuned over 300 Vortech and other supercharger kits on customers' Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, and SUVs and are looking forward to the installation on our Viper!)
Installation of the kit with the air-to-water intercooler should be roughly 3-5 days, including dyno-tuning. Plus, the kit is 50-state legal! I'll keep you all updated on our progress and power numbers.
Here are a few pictures of the head unit:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

=====>Bill, that time frame sounds great! I have a couple of questions for you though. With the Lethal 750 + blower and Air to Water intercooler, you should be well over 1,000 RWHP right? How big of a tank will you have for the air-water intercooler? I would think that with that much heat, you would have to have something like a 15 gallon ice water tank to have the intercooler cool all the heat your monster will be generating for any appreciable length of time, no?

And here's an image of the Viper Novi2000 blower next to the venerable Vortech S-Trim. You can see how much bigger the Paxton is--it promises to have much higher flow and boost capabilities for the air-hungry Viper!

You must be registered for see images

Bill, aren't superchargers just belt driven turbochargers? Wouldn't a bigger supercharger be the same as a bigger turbo?==> The larger the turbo, the greater the lag. I would think that the larger blower certainly would make more power on the upper end, but at the same time you would be sacraficing low end torque... I know that the smaller blower theoretically at some point depending upon the efficiency map of the individual unit would get out of its efficiency range as the RPM's pass a certain point. But with your Monster torque engine that is bored and stroked and probably the baddest a$$ NA engine around wouldn't you need to consider how much power is really necessary and able to be handled by the stock block?

How long would you think it would take to to the lethal 750 package and then do the blower? I would think that the average guy wants around 650-700 RWHP WITHOUT the expense of redoing the internals of the engine. Do you think this larger blower would be too much for a stock engine and more adaptive to the 550 CI stroker? Also, with the air to water setup, how long would you think one could road race the car flat out before the ice water becomes heat soaked and thereby eliminating any intercooling advantages? Will this setup be more of a drag racing setup? Also do you plan to do an air to air intercooler for those planning to road race and/or drive their cars on the street who might not have access to ice cubes and water after the supply becomes heat soaked? Sorry about all the questions, I have enjoyed talking to you guys over the last year or so and I am glad to see another competent, good tuner, with forced induction experience join the ranks of the Supercharger Supertuners! Congrats and good luck! Paolo

 

[LTHL VPR]

Paolo-
You bring up a ton of great questions.

1) We will probably offer a kit without an intercooler as long as the customer is willing to live with not generating too much boost; something 6lbs and under will be ok without an intercooler. These applications will work great for somebody with a stock/mildly modified Viper who doesn't want to dig into the engine and wants a 50 state emissions approved kit, and plans to drive mostly on the street. Installation time will probably be 2-3 days without the intercooler.

2) The intercooler kit will be for those who demand more boost and more power, and for those who intend to track their car. In the higer boost ranges it will be necessary for an intercooler to remove the heat boost generates. This 50 state emissions approved kit will probably take a couple extra days for installation. In these instances, depending on the circumstances and power levels demanded, we may recommend some stronger internals.

3) Regarding the LETHAL 750 + supercharger kit:
This kit will generate a conservative 1000 hp. Could me make more....probably. However, I think we'll call it a day at 1000hp. Here's why. With our LETHAL 750 kit we do not need to generate that much boost to make 1000hp (probably around 5-6lbs). Since we are running lower boost levels than we DO NOT HAVE TO USE AN INTERCOOLER. Hence, the installation is easier, we don't have to worry about sticking an obstruction in front of the radiator(ie intercooler) which is likely to raise water temps, and we can keep the car running cooler(trying to finalize a way to use am aftermarket radiator with the kits too). Less boost is easier on the engine too! Installation time will be the same as the LETHAL 750 kit: 4-6 weeks since the supercharger installation without the intercooler can be accomplished in just a couple days.

4) Regarding the blower:
This unit is a perfect size for a stock Viper. The Vortech unit in the picture is a standard S-trim unit used on Mustangs, Camaros, and some Vettes. Keep in mind the Viper engine likes to breathe. This is why you can gain so much power with modifications like heads and headers. This unit will work great and offer big gains(at all rpms). Overall, we like the centrifugal units because they generate boost as rpm increases making power and torque much more linear. We find these setups on cars are easier to drive and control.

Hope this answers your questions.
Regards,
Wayne

 

[LTHL VPR]

I guess I answered all then questions....now....
any others?
Thanks.
-Wayne

 

[ExecUtron Technologies]

Hey Exec...
Would you hurry up and get your car finished ...so Doug can work on mine!

Your lack of patience would be appreciated,

Clark

I remember saying that to Treynor once. He told me the same thing I'll tell you: "Be patient!". The bragging rights of a DLM car are worth it alone!

 

[OutThere]

Yes Wayne. Approx price for the non-intercooled kit - I am sure you haven't finalized pricing yet but can you get us a range? A hint? An idea? A guess?

Can you install it on a Gen1?

 

[MaxedGTS]

The only person I know that makes a bad @ss supercharger systm for gen I cars is DLM. He built my 95, 98 and now my 2000. My 95 took about three months to build but it was not Dougs fault. He had to correct a tuner nightmare that somebody else had created. I sold my 95 sc car to get a coupe. My 98 took less time to build and was a much better constructed system. I told Doug to take his time on my 2000 because it takes time to build custom parts and I know Doug adds brownie points for extra time taken and better parts to! I never had a Level 3 car so I don't know how much more it takes to build one.Either way if you tell Doug to build you a rocket you get one.

Max

 

[Paolo Castellano]

Paolo-
You bring up a ton of great questions.

1) We will probably offer a kit without an intercooler as long as the customer is willing to live with not generating too much boost; something 6lbs and under will be ok without an intercooler. These applications will work great for somebody with a stock/mildly modified Viper who doesn't want to dig into the engine and wants a 50 state emissions approved kit, and plans to drive mostly on the street. Installation time will probably be 2-3 days without the intercooler.

=====> Hey Wayne, I have not been in Wayne's world for quite a few months now, good to hear from you! What kind of power have you gotten out of a stocker so far with or without an intercooler?

2) The intercooler kit will be for those who demand more boost and more power, and for those who intend to track their car. In the higer boost ranges it will be necessary for an intercooler to remove the heat boost generates. This 50 state emissions approved kit will probably take a couple extra days for installation. In these instances, depending on the circumstances and power levels demanded, we may recommend some stronger internals.

======> Are you talking about air to water only or air to air as well? I am glad to see the recommendation for stronger internals once you get to a certain power level.

3) Regarding the LETHAL 750 + supercharger kit:
This kit will generate a conservative 1000 hp. Could me make more....probably. However, I think we'll call it a day at 1000hp. Here's why. With our LETHAL 750 kit we do not need to generate that much boost to make 1000hp (probably around 5-6lbs). Since we are running lower boost levels than we DO NOT HAVE TO USE AN INTERCOOLER. Hence, the installation is easier, we don't have to worry about sticking an obstruction in front of the radiator(ie intercooler) which is likely to raise water temps, and we can keep the car running cooler(trying to finalize a way to use am aftermarket radiator with the kits too). Less boost is easier on the engine too! Installation time will be the same as the LETHAL 750 kit: 4-6 weeks since the supercharger installation without the intercooler can be accomplished in just a couple days.


=======> I have one question and I have to pardon my not remembering what you told me a while back. What is the compression ratio on the Lethal 750 package?
I would assume it has to be a bit higher than the stock 9.6:1, no? Now I have never thought about running high compression with lower boost as I remember a few guys with the Sean Roe supercharger who already had their heads
milled to bump up the compression ratio to around 10:1. From what I remember they might have had problems with detonation using the stock computer until Sean Roe developed the VEC-2, which allows direct control of all the individual sensors that would manage the fuel in such a way as to eliminate detonation. Up to that point the only way to manage the fuel was to do a piggyback setup which maipulates the sensors to get the desired result of no detonation...... What type of computer and/or type of fuel management will you be using with your supercharger packages? I never thought to ask you what kind of computer/management you were running on the Lethal 750.
Another question I have is: I have a pretty good handle of how people add boost to stock type cars, but with your car already making huge RWHP #'s already, do you need to lower the higher compression ratio when adding even 6 PSI without the intercooler? And if you would lower the compression ratio, how much power would the Lethal 750 lose? Then how much boost could you run if you lowered the compression ratio to say 8.0:1. Or with the regular Lethal 750, with slightly higher compression ratio, no intercooler and 6PSI, how hard has it been for you to control and eliminate detonation?
==>I realize these are all hypothetical questions, but I have never considered the ramifications of putting the finest example of a NA motor on the boost and how the characteristics of what make that motor that makes more power than even the Lingenfelter Viper and ADD a blower. I rememeber you telling me about those CP pistons(That you guys use) which are a giant step above the mass produced J&E's and that the founders of CP left J&E to create a higher quality product, CP. Do those Lethal 750 NA pistons work well with a supercharger? This combination has had me thinking all day today. I could not wait to get home and ask some more questions.....


4) Regarding the blower:
This unit is a perfect size for a stock Viper. The Vortech unit in the picture is a standard S-trim unit used on Mustangs, Camaros, and some Vettes. Keep in mind the Viper engine likes to breathe. This is why you can gain so much power with modifications like heads and headers. This unit will work great and offer big gains(at all rpms). Overall, we like the centrifugal units because they generate boost as rpm increases making power and torque much more linear. We find these setups on cars are easier to drive and control.
Wayne

=====> One question regarding the blower: You had posted the picture of the Novi next to the S-trim.... How does the Novi compare sizewise to the Vortech JS trim blower going into my car? I know Doug Levin uses the Novi And I was always curious how the Novi and the Vortech JS trim compared to each other CFM wise, efficiency maps/etc...I cannot wait for you to post dyno sheets on the blower added onto the Lethal 750, how soon do you think it will be? Paolo

 

[Gerald]

Perfection takes time..

If you want serious power, you'll have to wait at least a couple months...


Gerald