The Biggest Viper Myth: The Viper Handling myth

[GotAViper]

what was not expected was when i let off the gas, for the rear end to be swiviling around like on ice.



In the camaro (i know not a great comparison) In a situation where the rear end breaks lose, you counter steer once or twice and you feel it trying to re-grip and then it does. It doesn't just fly around on you.

Was your Camaro an automatic?
The engine from the Viper will work like an ebrake when you let of the gas, so when your car is slipping and then let off the gas, it will be difficult to control the car.

nope T-56 6 speed. well thats the thing, i wasn't really going that fast, as soon as i punched it i realized i had zero tractoin and it was struggling so i let right off slowly. Maybe I just have really really old michellin tires or something. it was cool that night so im sure weather helped out as well. But the way that viper rear end flies around is just scary. Any rear wheel drive car i have ever driven around and done donuts in has never felt so lose before.

In general driving the viper around it feels amazing, its stiff turning, and car really does handle good assuming i'm doing moderate driving. I'm just scared now to ever really hit the gas again. Need to go to autocross and get over the fear.

 

[V10 ICBM]

Nah...the the handling is fantastic even without the nannies - just check out the recent mag comparo (there have been others) in which the SRT-10 is preferred on the track.

Mind you, if you are unable to exercise TC with your brain the back is going to get loose since the car has torque - that why you squeeeeze the trigger, you never ever jump on it. Obviously, you never ever just lift if if back gets loose, especially if your steering is not dead straight.

The best way to answer this is to drive the car wher you can learn the car - most guys who impatient wont take the time to learn how to handled the power, and will not blame themselves but will stroke their ego and blame the car.

The only thing I would do to improve thehandling of my GTS is is put in the ACR suspension so it was better at quick transitions. The spring rate for a driver who has mastered the GTS is too soft - then again all cars built fot he street are too soft if you can drive.

OH, the Z06 handling *****. The Viper is a better balanced car. Although it would hadle even better without 400lbs (2 fat guys) in imaginary rear seats.
The Viper also has an incredible ability to put its power down - this is still a weak point with many cars (335 boots sure are great)

 

[Fast Freddy]

its easier for a amateur driver to drive faster in a vette than a viper. a pro driver will produce quicker lap times in a viper though. for me personally i can generate faster lap times in a viper than a vette. vettes are chic cars because traction control is for girls

 

[Big Medicine]

Slides are exasperated by panick; when panicked, no one has a real grip on what is happening.

I can't spell.

Best thing to do is not do anything but look where you want to go and small steer towards it. and Keep some gas on it, not all of it, but some.

Works for me every time. Most times I realize the rear end kicked out after I stop and think about it, rarely when it is actually happening.

 

[Vic]

When the back end starts to come around, the natural reaction is to let off the gas. This transfers weight forward, giving less adhesion to the rear, and around she comes. Trick is, when you feel the rear end stepping out, to learn to floor it, putting more weight rearward, helping the rear end stick. Goes against your instincts.

Another problem is the half-shaft splines, under load they tend to lock up, and don't let the suspension flex. I hear the Quaiffe is a great answer to this, but its hardly needed for the street.

 

[Fred(DrivingSchool)Kinder]

The Viper has won the 24 hours of LeMans and Rolex Daytona, was well as the winners of FIA, and ALMS series championship sports car racing.

The myth is spread by people(most) do not know how to drive.

 

[Gavin]

I have had the privilege of reading almost every article written in any kind of "motor' magazine on the viper, going back to the concept show car about 1988 or 1989.

The author of this post poses the question - Why the myth regarding 'handling'?

Answer: for the most part, simply a bunch of 'motor' magazine test pilots with zero experience driving such a car, resulting in a lot of blame being put on the car and zero blame on the driver. This is not surprising?

Cold tires, too much power....blah,.....blah ....blah - an experienced driver knows how to handle all these issues and get the car to perform flawlessly.

My friends and I run vipers at various open tracking and race events (Viper Days, SCCA etc) These cars are in a class of their own, in appearence (all the kids want to sit in the Vipers and have their pics taken - a lot of adults too) and performance. It takes a car with a lot of horsepower, a lot of rubber and driver skill to be quicker than the Viper guys. (comparing cars of similar weight)The car is not difficult to drive quick, it is extremely reliable and goes where you point it. It tolerates extreme amounts of abuse.

In sportsman racing in Europe, no wants the Vipers to show up, especially in endurance racing - they are just to consistantly reliable.

An interesting note: I drove a 2006-007 Z06 corvette at the track this past weekend and got to hammer on it pretty good. That car rates right up there with the Viper. My only negative comment is, the steering is heavy, however the overall grip and balance of the car was outstanding: power, excellent. This Viper owner is impressed - finally a true performance sportscar from Chevrolet.

 

[Leslie]

wow great thread.

I track my C5 Z06 and I can tell you, I've been itching to take my GTS out next spring-but have also heard and seen so many stories of the snake bite. Good to read the responses, I plan on doing Viper days next year in the GTS at least once so I can learn the car better.

In a spin, both feet in.... Not as familiar with the Viper reaction as I am the vettes on that spin, but for a vette you would have been better to squeeze the throttle to transfer the weight and not make your backend so light.

 

[ViperTony]

The Viper's abilities are beyond my driving skills. It's the driver not the car that determines handling ability or inability. Until I went to my first track experience this year, I had no idea just how hard I can push the viper.Those of us that went to Limerock this past spring and witenessed ACR Steve and Chuck Tator tear up the course in stock vipers and put the Lambo's, Porsche's and Aston Martin's to shame with stock Gen II Vipers, we left that course with a newfound appreciation for what driver and Viper can do...

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Naysayers. I just tell them "anytime." But they never show up.

 

[PDCjonny]

Good thread.
Me and some buds with Vipers beat on them pretty good in straight line acceleration bursts and I've yet to have the rear lose traction on a 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to 4th shift (again STRAIGHT line). I have had it come loose on a curve on me once when I first got it, scary that. Wheel hop now and then, but never fishtailing. We all have good newish rubber however. Tires and temp really make the difference.

 

[Early93Viper]

Thanks for answering my thread with some great posts.

Some of you have mentioned magazines spreading this myth. I thought I had just about every magazine out there and just about all of them praise the Vipers handling. Road and Track explained the handling of the GEN I Viper as "go-kart like". An old Car and Driver had the GEN I Viper faster on a roadcourse than every other car tested in it's price range. (Including Porsche 911, Corvette ZR1, etc.) The newer magazines have the GEN III Viper beating cars twice it's price around the track.

 

[96GTS]

I took my wife with me one my first lap at a recent auto cross. She has been with me numerous times when I went fast in a straight line, but she had no idea what a Viper would do around corners. She told me that as we aproached a turn she kept waiting for me to hit the brakes and slow down, and much to her surprise, I just stayed in the gas. The Ford GT that got second and C6 Z06 that took third to a 10 year old Viper were probably also surprised how well it handles.

 

[jwbond]

my three cents...

The car handles incredible. I came from a 2004 rx8 and was worried about the viper handling, as I heard from many the car can be difficult. I bought from Bernie at BJ Motors w/o test driving and I have to say the handling of the car impressed me more than the power (I guess I was expecting the power, not the handling).

The car is very light and very powerful. Therefore you can't just mash on the throttle like a heavier less powerful camaro. I am not saying I am the best driver, I am still trying to master the car better myself. However, with the power to weight ratio mixed in with rwd you have a recipe for spin outs if you do not know the limits of the car.

I haven't tracked the car, but would like to to better learn the limits in a safe way. Once you learn the limits of the viper you should quickly realize the car handles absolutely amazingly!

 

[Bobpantax]

Over the seven years that I have been reading posts about snake bite on this forum, there has been one scenario that is far more frequent than any other. It is cold tire, too much foot. I would say the next most frequent violation is old tire, too much foot. The consequence of too much foot and cold and/or old tires is made worse with a 3.55 rear end. The bottom line is that Viper bites are not from the car. The Viper handles like the streetable race car that it is - extraordinarily well. Unfortunately, the eyes and pocket books of some are bigger than their driving skill. Their wrecks usually get reported here. I think that this plus the comma carrying, keyboard prostituting, motor press nerd herd drivers ( not all of whom fall into this category ) who think that they can hop into a Viper for a few minutes and then accurately report on its capabilities, created the myth referred to by the original poster. JM2C

 

[Bobpantax]

Alternative view. Handling is in the eye of the expectations of the driver. The Viper, as a streetable race car, requires a relatively high degree of skill to drive at its full capabilities - as does every other streetable race car. If a person has little driving skill and is used to the technology of a car intervening to counteract driver error, that person would, after losing control in a Viper, blame the Viper instead of himself. Do I agree with the above? No. But I bet that you would find many that do.

 

[joe117]

"race with my buddy's z06, we both hit it in second gear, he takes off and i quickly spin out. After the tires broke lose i let of the gas, but that wasnt enough... i had to counter steer about 10 times it just would NOT re-catch"

Sounds like you have some hard old rocks for tires. That will cause what you are seeing. Lots of Vipers out there with old tires.

Not to rag on your Camaro... But if your Camero handles better than your Viper. something is wrong with your Viper.
There should be no comparison.

 

[96GTS]

A guy in our club still has the original tires on his '96 GTS. He's my fathers age, and is probably the nicest person on the face of the Earth. I've never seen him at a track event, and I don't know if the car has ever been past the posted speed limit. He might even still have the little knobbies on the tires, and they will probably last until the end of time because by now they are hard as a rock.

 

[jwbond]

A guy in our club still has the original tires on his '96 GTS. He's my fathers age, and is probably the nicest person on the face of the Earth. I've never seen him at a track event, and I don't know if the car has ever been past the posted speed limit. He might even still have the little knobbies on the tires, and they will probably last until the end of time because by now they are hard as a rock.

Funny, I just bought a 96 GTS that was definately owned by an older guy. The tires are original and still have the knobbies as well. (I am going to replace them when I decide on what wheels to get, but I can't decide on just one set!)

The car even has the old man circular little mirrors on the bottom of the side view mirrors! Definately a good thing to find when you are buying a used viper, as the car probably never broke 60mph, hah!



To those that think the viper is difficult to drive, I have to completely disagree. I feel the car gives great feedback and will tell you the limits if you are willing to listen. The problem is, too many want to mash on the car without having enough heart to heart conversations to properly learn the limits. The car drives different than any other I have driven due to the power/weight ratio, but I feel is incredibily easy to drive. Just be sure to listen to what your viper is telling you when you are testing the limits.

 

[ZEUS]

Gotavipe....what you are describing is old tires. It will be day and night with your new 19" pirellis. Respond once they're on. I didn't have a clue till I corrected 5 times in my lane etc. just like you described.

 

[mad0953]

When I put new 18" PS2's on my Viper, changing over from the original 17's it made a world of difference. Better ride, no more wheel hop and no more going up in smoke in 2nd. Try it you'll like it.

 

[GTS Bruce]

In general I agree with the poor handling comments.No one passes you in a straight line at the road courses.However it is not as nimble as pcars,ferrari etc.Had to work my *** off to stay with them in corners.Too much push,body roll and lack of rotation.Yep it tries to ambush you once in a while under acceleration and braking.My solution:Eibach springs to lower the car,stiffen and promote easier rotation.Adjusted shocks.A more agressive alignment.PS2 tires.Feels like night and day on the street.Gonna track test it on an exotic car day next weekend. GTS Bruce

 

[Zan186]

It is definately the low end torque. Other cars need to increase RPM's quite a bit to gain torque on the rear wheels. The Viper has that high torque at low RPM's. While a Camero can make some decent hp, it is usually at much higher RPM's than the Viper.
As for breaking loose the rear wheels, try putting the clutch back in. This will take the drive offline and remove torque from the rear wheels.

 

[Silver_Snake]

Well, not to be just an echo - but with only 2 months of experience with my 99 RT, I have learned throttle control is everything. Fortunately many on this forum have shared their experience / knowledge - and I'm old enough to check my ego and listen. Case in point, early morning yesterday I accidently lined up next to a 2002 Vette at a light. Young guy (mid-20's) in his dealer tagged (his father is local Chev dealer) black convertible - he stood on the throttle and brake indicating he wanted to compare acceleration (it is illegal to "race" ya know). Expecting a horn honk to start (the light was already green) he suddenly released brake without warning and got a pretty good jump on me. Instinctively (usually the precursor to bad things) I jumped on the throttle and dumped clutch. As I proceeded to smoke the cold, original tires (99 w/5k miles) the rear end got a little loose, twitching right. I just feathered the throttle a little and she straighted right out - still smoking the tires. Easing into the throttle at the shift into second resulted in a chirp of tires, but straight tracking - and I was reeling the Vette in. Unfortunately, all the time / energy wasted on spinning tires, combined with the uneven start left too much of a gap to overcome before the next light. Lesson re-learned - this car has waaaay more torque than you can put to ground from the line without easing into it. It won't happen again........
BTW - he turned down the opportunity to divert to I-135 for another "acceleration comparison".
Bottom line - old tires and lack of finesse on the throttle will cause this brute to get sideways in a hurry, but it ain't the car - it's the driver.

 

[Freddog11]

My 96 had 8 year old tires on it when I bought it. Driving it home I thought the handling was terrible and I could break it loose without effort. A week after I got it home I put new PS2s on it and it sticks like glue, once they are warmed up a bit. I don't push it hard because I'm a street driver, but it impresses me every day. Good tires, throttle and clutch control, common sense...recipe for success.

 

[VIPER GTSR 91]

Why is it that a lot of so called car guys think the Viper is not a good handling car? I hear of the Viper shortcomings in the handling department almost weekly by the uninformed internet post ***** or just the kid walking up to get a look at my car.

Now if you have ever taking your Viper on the track you know this to be a myth. Hell when I go to the track I pass lotus elise’s, NSXs, and other so called “great handling cars” like there towing an anchor ridden by Roseanne Barr. And even most magazines agree saying the Viper has gokart like handling. So why this myth?

A few years ago Mario Andretti drove several new hi performance cars for a Road and Track article including a Gen 2 Viper. This car was NOT his favorite in regards to handling and said "its like walking on a high wire, unpredictable, and the rear end can come around with little notice". I believe the car he was testing also caught fire!

 

[IL96RT10]

I am also a convert from Trans Ams and never felt unconfortable or out of control even in wet wheather, but my Viper loses traction going around a curve when it is a little wet out at like 25-30 mph and I do a 180. My T/A might break loose but i could ger her straight b/4 I am heading the wrong way.

 

[Vic]

All I know is, at WiilowSprings, my GTS can go faster around corners than I can. Trying to go flat out through Turn 8 makes my a-hole twitch like a bunny's nose. (Its a "bravery" corner) My GTS is lowered an inch, has triple adjustable Penskes on it, and Hypercoil springs. Most, not all Viper critics have never experienced high speed track driving, and if they did, they would be too busy cleaning the crap out of their undies to do anymore armchair quarterbacking, or car rag numbers bench racing.

Hey, try this one on for size- Motor Trend tested several cars to find "the best handling car in America", they strangely left the Viper out of the test, and declared the Mitsubishi EVO a better handling car than the ZO6. Even though the Evo turned a 1:48 at Laguna Seca, and the ZO6 turned a 1:40. I guess they don't like to dance on the edge of traction, and just want predictability, and by that criteria they declare a slower, more forgiving car, as the better handling one.

Max Angeleli did the driving, and the Porsche GT3 won their lopsided test, edging out the ZO6 by like a second a lap.

 

[yogibayer]

I'm not sure where this myth comes from, but I remember when I stopped believing it. I read a car magazine article in which they raced the "best" car against the "best" bike through a mountain pass to see which was the winner. Each driver was allowed to choose their ride. The car driver chose the Viper and I can't remember what the bike rider chose, but I believe it might have been a Ninja.

It was at that point that I began to understand that the Viper was more than just a straight line racer. This guy had plenty of cars to choose from and picked a Viper.

BTW the Viper won the race

 

[GTS Bruce]

Ahhh pucker factor when cornering.Try this trick when finding the limits.You're not used to it but know it can be done.Your brain says NO.The right foot starts to come up off the right pedal.Move your left foot over to tap on or rest on the right foot to convince it to stay flat.Couple of times through that bad highspeed MF corner and your brain and right foot will be used to it. GTS Bruce