But for Ralph, the Viper would have ended on July 1, 2010 at the end of the line event which some of us attended. Ralph put himself on the line to bring the Gen V into existence. His feelings counted then and count now. He was a great friend of the Viper Nation then and is a friend now.
The current and future state of Viper sales and technology
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depends if its coming with a limited color. they may call it stryker 5 hp
seems feasible.SnakeBitten
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I'm actually going to agree with Bob on this aspect. You can't blame him for putting out his idea of the perfect Viper. I'm sure most of us, if given the reigns like Ralph was, would create what we each see as the perfect Viper for us. It would not necessarily be what everyone else wants etc. My problem is that if you put the product out and the majority don't care for your idea then since its a money making business you have to adjust your direction to appeal to those that don't share your vision of said product.
I wouldn't want to see Ralph go just because of this. Heck, Beth P kept her job despite being responsible for the attrocious marketing so why should Ralph go. I would like to see him adjust to what the market wants since his vision wasn't recieved the way he hoped. The reasons why dont matter at this point just learning from it and moving on to a Viper that would appeal to more than just a few hundred folks. I think Ralph's vision of the G5 as it is would have been well recieved years ago when the ZR1 first came out, but at the level where cars are now its not enough for the majority of car guys. Ralph can fix that if given the R&D budget.
I still dont see why the G5 as is can't co-exist with a higher tech version as well, if Fiat gives them the budget.
In a world of 665 HP mustangs, 700 hp challengers and 650 hp corvettes, the viper sits in the marketplace like a chain-smoking woman at the bar that's past her prime. She may have been hot at one point, but nobody's lining up to take her home anymore. SRT had a chance to do what they did in 1996 with the GTS and make everyone take notice by putting out a car with incredible power (for the time) and beautiful lines, but they failed in both aspects to make a poster car for anyone but the existing viper enthusiasts.
Exactly.
You have a point.
I haven't heard anything from him suggesting a different strategy and that, at this point in time, doesn't fill me with much optimism.
It would certainly be amazing if Sergio would OK such a thing.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Well, not quite since most buyers of the Gen V are new to the brand all together.
Nor did older Viper owners buy Gen IV's in large quantities.
This whole "Viper owners support the brand" thing is a giant myth.
Those who are buying the available vette, in general, cannot afford a new Viper. Those who bought an almost 200K turbo Porsche want the additional tech and the Porsche snob appeal. Same for the Mclaren crowd but even more so. In the meantime, the TA is still the record holder at Leguna Seca. I do not count the new hybrid supercars. I do not believe they are the same type of car.
It is abundantly clear by the posts on this forum and the VOA forum that all of those who have bought a Gen V and driven it on a road course are very satisfied.
The HP chatter is pure BS. Real car guys look at HP/weight ratios and other factors. HP bragging rights is for posers. But, unfortunately, increasingly, we are living in a country dominated by posers - people who type and talk but do not do.
Regardless of the negative posters, most of whom, if not all of whom, have no real experience in the car on a road course, the Gen V, dollar for dollar, design to design, and performance to performance, is the best buy in its class.
The racing version is starting to win and maybe, just maybe, we will see that translate into better sales.
Sorry for the semi rant but the Gen V, especially the TA, is an incredible car. Those who have not driven it on a road course should reserve judgment until they do.
It is abundantly clear by the posts on this forum and the VOA forum that all of those who have bought a Gen V and driven it on a road course are very satisfied.
The HP chatter is pure BS. Real car guys look at HP/weight ratios and other factors. HP bragging rights is for posers. But, unfortunately, increasingly, we are living in a country dominated by posers - people who type and talk but do not do.
Regardless of the negative posters, most of whom, if not all of whom, have no real experience in the car on a road course, the Gen V, dollar for dollar, design to design, and performance to performance, is the best buy in its class.
The racing version is starting to win and maybe, just maybe, we will see that translate into better sales.
Sorry for the semi rant but the Gen V, especially the TA, is an incredible car. Those who have not driven it on a road course should reserve judgment until they do.
emericr
Enthusiast
This is actually an interesting comment. Do we have definitive data on the buyers of the Gen V. Someone posted 60% were first time buyers. Can this be confirmed. I have a tough time believing that number and I obviously could be wrong but I really thought that Viper owners were the one keeping the brand alive.
The fact is that sports car buyers are bombarded these days with shocking performance figures and new or significantly improved versions of cars are coming out constantly. Unless you can create something truly evolutionary, then cars like the GenV are doomed to stay in the buyer's peripheral vision. Think about what the GTR did to redefine the expectations of the four-seater sports car class. Love it or hate it, everyone took notice and enthusiasts of all segments of the automotive world discussed it at great length. The GenV made waves initially because it was a new viper and then nobody had much of a reason to discuss it further.
FLL-B/W-GTS
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TA Viper is the best Viper ever made and the only Gen.5 worth buying now for the money and to retain value...Road Track monster for sure.....
Those who have one/get one are golden...But,most people/customers want the new tech moving forward, not ride the old dog technology ...
Esp.the arrogant/snobby P,F,L and Mc. Dudes...
Those who have one/get one are golden...But,most people/customers want the new tech moving forward, not ride the old dog technology ...
Esp.the arrogant/snobby P,F,L and Mc. Dudes...
A viper enthusiast does not need to be a current or past owner. It could just as easily be someone that fell in love with the car when they had a GTS poster on their wall in 1996 but never had the means to buy one. All of a sudden a new model comes out and they can scoop one up with a full warranty and the thought of "living the dream" becomes real. Someone in the market for a sports car that never spent nights dreaming of a viper specifically will likely end up in another car.
Bubba 2.9
Enthusiast
I like this post, I have wanted a Viper ever since the first one came out. I don't want to bore anyone with details of my life, but I've lived most of my adult life in NYC and with children, so the Viper was never an option for me. I'm in my late 40's now and I have space to garage it, not much, but some. I bought a 2013 GTS and I'm living the dream. 1100 miles so far and I'm in love with this car. The Viper replaced a 2012 911 Turbo and I'm so glad I pulled the trigger. I'm a first time buyer and I love this car more than any other I've owned. Maybe it's because I always knew that one day I would own one. The driver's side door won't open half the time and sometimes opens by itself and the stereo crackles on one of the speakers, also when I open the back hatch it makes a noise. I don't care though, my love for this car runs deep. It's interesting, you either get this car or you don't. The more I drive the Viper the more I love it. JD
lawdogg149
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Got to say Im a first time buyer into the viper. Of course after being fortunate to have owned most of the snob mobiles I can say "I love my viper" I stated on another post if this car is going to survive team viper needs to talk to people like me. First question would be "why did I buy a viper?" short answer was it was final discounted to $95,000 from a whooping $127,000 sticker. This car is indeed a $100,000 car but they really screwed up pricing it out of its real market. Vipers aren't the car I would choose to say drive 500 miles on a tour like I would of done any day in my Corvette C7. But this car is for the street bruiser guy that likes to cruise town during the week and take to the track on the weekends. This car can survive but people with the gen V gotta step up and not be afraid to confront the negativity some people on here seem to dish out every day. Again if you haven't driven or ridden in one you cant speak of it. To many wanting this and demanding that in this community only to not even purchase the car when it arrives. I still think many on this forum really should be driving the new vette. I have one ordered new Z06 version. It offers so much that you people keep asking for. Only thing I can honestly say it doesn't have is the exclusivity rareness. Vettes are mass produced I know and darn well should be. Any I love both and really feel those asking for this and that should try one. Team viper if you are listening you guys could learn a lot from the vette guys.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
It came from Ralphs mouth, so yeah.
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
There are such minor differences between the TA and the SRT/GTS that I don't see how anyone can think that they are leaps and bounds in differences. In reality it would take a pro driver to realize many of those differences.
Not saying that the statistic is wrong (it's meaningless regardless), but how the hell would "Ralph" know if I'm new to vipers? My previous cars have all been bought from, and sold to, private parties. Dodge has no records of me and would be none the wiser if I decide to walk into a showroom and buy a gen V
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
It is far from meaningless.
Industry is excellent at data mining, there is nothing more to it than that.
Ok, well how can I argue with such well articulated explanations.
You're certainly correct that the past owners are not keeping the sales going.... Nobody is for that matter. But you're right, the completely unsubstantiated statistic is very meaningful and provides great insight into the cars' future
You're certainly correct that the past owners are not keeping the sales going.... Nobody is for that matter. But you're right, the completely unsubstantiated statistic is very meaningful and provides great insight into the cars' future
ViperSmith
Enthusiast
Yes, I am sure they are trying to pull the wool over our eyes with the 60% stat. You got ole Ralph there!
Texas1
Enthusiast
I agree...was going to say the same thing!!! Lol!!!
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
The guys working at SRT spent nights dreaming of Halle Berry and ended up designing the latest Viper.
Yes, both male and female buyers are exceedingly attractive and successful individuals with a great sense of style. They recognize and appreciate a great high performance car when they finally find one, and value hand-built craftsmanship, quality and exclusivity over price. Over 60% came from other brands, and only SRT would have that data silly
Not a pro driver. Just a fairly experienced track rat. I do not think the differences are minor. The following only come standard on the TA: New damper tuning, 20-percent-stiffer springs, a 35-percent-stiffer front anti-roll bar, a 31-percent-stiffer rear anti-roll bar, a high camber alignment, reworked brake rotors and pads that stand up to heat better than the regular SRT or GTS brakes ( Bruce's posts and videos show this nicely), and a carbon-fiber engine-bay brace. Could you buy the parts and make your regular Gen V a TA? Sure.
Bottom line. I do not think it is fair to the team at SRT who developed the TA to minimize their effort. They did a great job and produced a durable ,reliable, and very capable road course performer right from the factory.
Bottom line. I do not think it is fair to the team at SRT who developed the TA to minimize their effort. They did a great job and produced a durable ,reliable, and very capable road course performer right from the factory.
05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Ralph is referring to new car purchases. If you had bought one new from a dealer, you would know they ask this as a question as part of the sales process.
Bruce H.
Enthusiast
Some of the differences on the TA would only account for incremental improvements in performance, and really only on the race track as opposed to the street, but there are three that I think are significant. Different drivers might prefer different sway bars, spring rates and damper valving (Randy Pobst actually chose the dampers he preferred from a selection SRT let him try), but the one thing all track rats want is the best brakes available. The TA's are great, and perfect for advanced drivers, but a pro driver on slicks might very likely find even those lacking. Tomball just introduced a big brake kit for the Gen V, and I think BBG may have brake upgrades available as well. I don't know how they compare to the TA's, but at least SRT owners have brake options available should they require them.
Another significant feature is the 5 mode ESC that comes standard on the TA, and now with the Grand Touring Package option on the SRT. While I haven't got to the stage of driving the car at the limits of adhesion through most corners, that is where track rats will really want the 5 mode vs the standard 2 mode. Running with ESC OFF would be foolish at that stage, and running ESC (full) ON would intervene and seriously reduce vehicle performance. The Track Mode would be the ideal.
The '13 SRT with Track Pack had the middle grade of brakes, along with the same wheel and tire as the TA, but only had the 2 mode ESC, while some late '14 SRT may have the GT Package with 5 mode, and all can have the TA brakes installed if somebody found they needed them.
The last is the Advanced Aero package that comes standard on the TA, optional on others, and no doubt helpful at 150 mph on the track.
If someone is planning to track their Gen V, choosing the TA is money well spent...and you get a killer CF rear fascia included!
Another significant feature is the 5 mode ESC that comes standard on the TA, and now with the Grand Touring Package option on the SRT. While I haven't got to the stage of driving the car at the limits of adhesion through most corners, that is where track rats will really want the 5 mode vs the standard 2 mode. Running with ESC OFF would be foolish at that stage, and running ESC (full) ON would intervene and seriously reduce vehicle performance. The Track Mode would be the ideal.
The '13 SRT with Track Pack had the middle grade of brakes, along with the same wheel and tire as the TA, but only had the 2 mode ESC, while some late '14 SRT may have the GT Package with 5 mode, and all can have the TA brakes installed if somebody found they needed them.
The last is the Advanced Aero package that comes standard on the TA, optional on others, and no doubt helpful at 150 mph on the track.
If someone is planning to track their Gen V, choosing the TA is money well spent...and you get a killer CF rear fascia included!
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In other words, what the SRT should have been.
Let's just agree to disagree on the TA vs. GTS. Trust me, it will not go well for the TA and the debate will further divide the pack and it has been debated before. The various iterations of the Gen V all share the important bits, so let's concentrate on that.
I am not debating that one is better than the other. The TA and the GTS are different. The GTS is the more luxurious, creature comfort focused car. The TA is a more minimalist road course focused car. The TA is not for everyone. They are both great cars.
OK, you asked for it.
The TA has Nylon seats, lack of leather, harsh ride and stickers instead of emblems. All of these things make the car less desireable on the street--90%+ of all Viper use.
The majority of the "special" TA items can easily be added to the GTS IF required. For example, sway bars, springs, front brake rotors (and possibly calipers), front corner splitter pieces, rear spoiler and track alignment can all be added. That leaves the different electronic calibration of the shocks, which may or may not be relevant when compared to the 2014 GTS "Race" mode. I strongly suspect that SS Brake Lines and high temp brake fluid (Castrol SRF or Motul) will solve any brake issues--if any--which would be experienced by 99% of any parties on th race track. Most HPDE groups have 20 minute run sessions, and some 30 minute run sessions. All have cool-down periods between sessions.
Recall that the early, pre-production 2013 GTS car given to the mags had many issues: mismatched tires; incorrect alignment; loose driver's seat, etc. So, to continually boast that the "TA is vastly superior" or a substantially different car is not correct. More track-focused out of the box true. However, if you put Randy in a 2014 GTS (or a 2015 with the extra 5hp!) with the Corsa tires (an option) and the Advanced Aero Package, I suspect the cars (TA and GTS) will be very, very close. Add the track alignment to the GTS and the gap would be even smaller. An average recreational driver may not feel any difference whatsoever. My GTS, for example, has all of the exterior carbon fiber aero (including the advanced aero package) and corsa tires. It will get the SS lines (when available) and high temp fluid later. It also has full leather, the upgraded stereo, more sound insulation than a TA and the same wheels as the TA. If I and others wanted the de-contended TA we would have purchased one (for substantially less); however, we prefer to have our cake (excellent handling, same power and drivetrain) and eat it too (more comfort and luxury).
Fortunately Dodge makes different models so we can all choose. Each model has its advantages and disadvantages. Thank you Dodge for building the Gen V!
The TA has Nylon seats, lack of leather, harsh ride and stickers instead of emblems. All of these things make the car less desireable on the street--90%+ of all Viper use.
The majority of the "special" TA items can easily be added to the GTS IF required. For example, sway bars, springs, front brake rotors (and possibly calipers), front corner splitter pieces, rear spoiler and track alignment can all be added. That leaves the different electronic calibration of the shocks, which may or may not be relevant when compared to the 2014 GTS "Race" mode. I strongly suspect that SS Brake Lines and high temp brake fluid (Castrol SRF or Motul) will solve any brake issues--if any--which would be experienced by 99% of any parties on th race track. Most HPDE groups have 20 minute run sessions, and some 30 minute run sessions. All have cool-down periods between sessions.
Recall that the early, pre-production 2013 GTS car given to the mags had many issues: mismatched tires; incorrect alignment; loose driver's seat, etc. So, to continually boast that the "TA is vastly superior" or a substantially different car is not correct. More track-focused out of the box true. However, if you put Randy in a 2014 GTS (or a 2015 with the extra 5hp!) with the Corsa tires (an option) and the Advanced Aero Package, I suspect the cars (TA and GTS) will be very, very close. Add the track alignment to the GTS and the gap would be even smaller. An average recreational driver may not feel any difference whatsoever. My GTS, for example, has all of the exterior carbon fiber aero (including the advanced aero package) and corsa tires. It will get the SS lines (when available) and high temp fluid later. It also has full leather, the upgraded stereo, more sound insulation than a TA and the same wheels as the TA. If I and others wanted the de-contended TA we would have purchased one (for substantially less); however, we prefer to have our cake (excellent handling, same power and drivetrain) and eat it too (more comfort and luxury).
Fortunately Dodge makes different models so we can all choose. Each model has its advantages and disadvantages. Thank you Dodge for building the Gen V!
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05Commemorative
Enthusiast
Bob, until you or someone else on here takes a GTS with track pack brakes and aero on the track and then take a TA on the track, you really don't know. You must agree to that. the mid-level brakes you describe are what were used on ACR's, so need to be careful on how you describe them. Just saying, I feel the differences are minor from the same data that you think they are major. It is just opinion. Put them on the track together would show. Please don't confuse some leather in making them very different cars. All are fantastic track cars
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