The "mileage question"

[Peter Kater]

Dear GTS owners,

Is there any risk related to low mileage on Vipers?

(I plan to purchase a 00' Viper GTS that has currently less than 5.000 miles on it...)

Thanks in advance for your help!

Regards,

Pierre

 

[KyViper]

Yes and No. The important thing is to learn the back story on the vehicle. Either a 10 mile Car or a 100 thousand mile car can be in equally good or bad condition.
Do your homework on # of owners, Maintenance history, Accident history, look at any issues with recalls or service bulletins, The internet can be your friend looking at owners forums, etc. If you are thinking about buying sight unseen, then pay the money for a Qualified Viper Tech to look at the car.
After all of this, if concerns still linger then get the seller to allow you have an independent Tech Inspect the car.
Once all of this is done, you will have the information to make a decision on whether or not to go forward with the purchase.
KyViper
Oh, this logic can be applied to any vehicle. The Viper is a fairly basic vehicle.

 

[Peter Kater]

Thanks a lot for the answer man, it lights my candle a bit and confirms me I was right in appointing an inspection by an independent technician.

Regards,

Pierre

 

[steel snake]

Other things that factor in: Was the car allowed to just sit there? Or at least started up once a week; better yet driven up and down the driveway or around the block. Potential for seals to dry out due to lack of use. Fluid changes performed? Tires, obviously. Low miles are sometimes a red flag depending on a lot of circumstances. These cars were meant to be driven. W/o proper planning and maintenance they can develop problems. Happy hunting!

 

[fhrzr1]

When they are driven they need to do at least 6 miles to warm up the oil and fluids and evaporate the water condensation that appears at start up.
Let engine run for at least 20 minutes.
My 2005 had 3800 miles when I bought it 3 years ago.
No issues

 

[Peter Kater]

Sounds great man
Thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[Chris Charleston]

I bought my 2001 last May with 8500 mi. Drove it home to Atlanta from Indy after a nice test drive. Now has over 12K with no issues and "0" mods. Changed the oil and coolant so far and will do the trans, rear end and brake fluid soon. The only issue so far is dry rotted boots on all of the anti-sway bar links. Ordered new Moog replacements from Rock Auto. Good Luck, Chris

 

[Peter Kater]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for your story and kudos to you for the nice buy
My Viper goal is to just get the same flawless experience as you.
Can I ask you what was the asking price for your snake when you baught it? Any track days with it?

 

[KC4SSD]

High Miles or Low no difference, depends on whom and where it has been driven or kept. I have a ACR 09 with relatively low miles and a Roe supercharged Truck getting ready to flip 100K! Both run like new and want to kill you haha. Just check it top and bottom well!

Tim

 

[Peter Kater]

Hi Tim,
Thanks for your contribution to this current thread on the "mileage" thing.
All put together, everybody is right around this forum (I mean it) and I am glad it is so!
To sum it all up, it doesn't matter what motor vehicle you may drive, a million miles or a thousand miles car can run in perfect condition or totally ******, it all goes down to the driver, ultimately allowing the engine to reach operating temperature or cool down before shutting off. I would call that "engineering respect".. But that's just me. Not everybody around will take so much care of even such beautiful engineering pieces.
Though I believe people who are on this forum do care.
Keep on the good work
Pete

 

[steve e]

Just my 2 cents, had a shop for 40 years, and I know a lot about all cars, Trust me its better to buy a car with a thousand miles that sat for 20 years in a garage, than a car with one hundred thousand miles, the TLC that the car with low mileage needs is minor stuff, compared to the high mileage car that might need an engine , trans , rear and who knows what, and how it was used , much rather just change fluids and minor tune up stuff. But that's me. Yes there are exceptions to everything, but less miles are better than lots of miles.

 

[Peter Kater]

Hi Steve,
Thanks a lot for your contribution man!
It appears that the risk related to "low mileage" is relatively lower on cars with "normal mileage" (about 20 to 40k miles for 20+ years Vipers) than would be on cars with mileage higher than the average.
I totally agree with you on your comment and will positively buy a low mileage GTS (after inspection) that will not be prone to require a lot of TLC right from the start.
I'm from Europe and I want to own and drive one of those American Supercar Beauties, without making it a "garage queen" but bearing in mind that car enthusiasts/collectors over here are extremely demanding on both low mileage (with well documented service history) and stock condition for everything possible. Fulfilling these two factors maximizes chances for value to hold steady if not ramp up...
Cheers to all!
Pete

 

[Mark Crosby]

I have over 67 thousand on my 2000 and it runs fantastic. Don’t be scared to put miles on it. Change the oil, check the coolant, and most importantly!!! Check your coolant pressure cap! They do fail and for me it was a nightmare. Other than that, those are the main things in my opinion if you start getting concerned about general maintenance on these cars. The viper is solid if you maintain it

 

[Peter Kater]

Hi Mark!
Thanks for your reply, it's appreciated.
I do consider Vipers Gen II to be solid.
Based onyyour experience, I will order a brand new coolant pressure cap though, just to be on the safe side.
Cheers!
Pete

 

[MoparMap]

I've got a 127,000+ on my gen 3 and it has been pretty solid. I've had to deal with some of the usual gen 3 issues (leaking power steering and oil cooler lines), but those are pretty easy to fix. I also replaced my shocks as I suspected mine were leaking, but I also just wanted to upgrade. With basic maintenance they will last a very long time. Modern seals and gaskets are much better than old cork style ones, though I do still think they need their exercise. The Viper doesn't leak a drop compared to my 71 Vette that still puddles transmission fluid even after a rebuild. Flimsy pans and cork gaskets don't help, but it also just doesn't get driven enough.

 

[Peter Kater]

Wau!
I must admit my utter surprise here!
First, reading your reply to my thread I came up to see that you are the VCA National President (just that ).
It's an honor to get this reply from you. Thank you!
Then seeing you run actual 127,000+ miles (on a Viper gen 3!!) it just confirms that Vipers are pretty solid machines... Of course it goes without saying that this is the result of proper mechanical care (and TLC).
Then reading you have a 71' Vette.. and you experience steady leaks (mainly transmission)! Well I got a 77' Vette myself and I concur with your analysis that "flimsy oil pans" and "cork gaskets" aren't any good (they're just from another era). I guess most machines require regular driving to NOT witness their weeker components to simply deteriorate past the "point of no return"
I sincerely hope that my (soon to be acquired) Gen 2 Viper will be as pleasurable to drive as it is reliable and vice-versa.
I will for sure strive for my Viper to get both the needed miles as well as the required care, so it will run in top shape as long as I keep it!
Cheers to all of you Viper fans and keep up the great work on the VCA forum

 

[MoparMap]

Yeah, I recently replaced the oil pan and valve cover gaskets on my Vette to the modern silicone style with crush washers and that has helped a fair deal to keep more fluids in the engine than before, lol. I was planning to see about doing the same thing with the transmission and just haven't gotten around to it yet. I've read various opinions either way. Some say you need a cork gasket when you have a thin pan so that it can flex and swell to fill the gaps better, but I'd think a soft silicone style with the controlled crush sleeves would do the same thing.

It's a small world sometime. Pretty wild that someone on the other side of the world would have a similar car collection to me . If you tell me you have something close to a 67 Dart I'll be really impressed as that's the last one in my collection, lol.

 

[Peter Kater]

Hello Mr. President of VCA
It indeed is a very small world!
I have purchased a kit from the US (for my 77' Vette) which comprises both cork and silicone gaskets, and my 2 cents is that both materials will have similar properties, although as far as durability is concerned, I'd place my bet anytime on silicone, which combines both outstanding elasticity and perfect resilience to higher temperatures.
A 67' Dart in my garage? No, but I need to confess I am pretty much lurking on a 69' Charger R/T.. If only those weren't that darn expensive!
I can't wait to get my GTS over here on European roads, where it will for sure appear like a freakin' ufo.
As the saying goes (and rightfully so), "There is NO replacement for displacement!"
Cheers!

 

[steel snake]

Well, be careful when you get on that new horse, cowboy, it can be a bucking bronco. You would not be the first to wreck his Viper right out of the gate. Get acquainted with it first and then you can stab it, with the wheels pointed straight ahead. I tell every newbie this and I'm dead serious. GS

 

[Peter Kater]

Thanks for the advice!
I'll try to keep this in mind when the snake is looking straight into my eyes...
Other than that, is the torque really that monstrous on a Viper?

 

[steel snake]

YES!!! And if the tires are older it will break them loose in a heartbeat! These cars are absolutely ICONIC, but you have to respect them before you start showing off. I got impatient one time and went around some road zombi, kicked it as I did and was immediately in the oncoming lane. Luckily nobody was coming. I let off the gas and it snapped right back. Recently a friend of mine got on it before he straightened out. His car is still in the body shop. So.....enjoy the fun you'll have, but with respect. Good luck.

 

[Peter Kater]

Hello steel snake,
Understood! Vipers need humility and respect behind the wheel, fresh rubber and TLC
I guess this is the best way of enjoying them without getting bitten by the snake...

 

[MoparMap]

One of the biggest things about the Viper is that is makes its torque right off idle. You don't have to wind it up like smaller displacement cars. I think that's what catches a lot of people off guard. They are used to waiting for power to build and come on at higher revs, but the Viper gives it to you right off the bat.

 

[Peter Kater]

Hello all, MoparMap, steel snake!
Actually reading all your comments / warnings, I am literally starting to get the measure of the "beast"..
As MoparMap put it : "it's torque right off idle". Things cannot get any clearer than that for me and it's just fine.
I mean 8.0L is just about an "engine size", as much as 2.0L just is a "soft drink" size. Full stop
In comparison, my European daily driver is a Suzuki SX4 (very, very compact crossover which offers all wheel drive) and comes with a 1.6L engine (125 hp) for a weight of 1,650kg. Yes indeed, it's heavier than a Gen II GTS by about 10%. So it's not exactly a 24h of Le Mans racecar in comparison to the Viper
Sirs, I will take ALL of your advices and comments as orders, and will strive my best not to get bitten...
Cheers

 

[steve e]

Yes be very very careful when you get on it, learn the car, you must not forget a Vipers mission is to kill you.

 

[Peter Kater]

Roger that steve e
It doesn't sound like the Gen II Viper GTS will be anything like "boring" or even remotely close to "conventional"...
Oh my, oh my

 

[MoparMap]

It's important to remember too that a car is only as wild as you want it to be. This sounds silly, but if you drive it like a regular car it drives like a regular car. The reason I have 127,000 miles on mine is that it was my daily driver for several years. If you just drive it like a normal car and not a sports car there is really nothing to fear. One of the reasons I wanted to daily mine was so that I could be really attuned to how it responds. I think I have a very good feel for my car now because I have tons of time behind the wheel. It's not a few times a year kind of thing, so how it handles is typically always pretty fresh in my memory. And I don't mean that you can never have fun in it, just that you don't have to drive it like a Le Mans racer everywhere you go. Sometimes you can just enjoy it for being a really cool car without having to set lap records to the grocery store and back, lol. People seem to think that the throttle on sports cars is an on/off switch, but the reality is the car makes "up to 450 (or whatever) horsepower". That also means it makes 50, 100, 150, and every other amount of horsepower in between. You don't have to use it to its full potential nor should you on public roads 99% of the time, that's what the track is for.

 

[Peter Kater]

Right! It is true that tons of hours behind the wheel generally translate into a driver strategically knowing his car and its reactions in borderline situations.
In doesn't mean in turn that this car should be "raced" around everywhere in frantic ways...
Doing so would only gather all conditions for disaster : cold tires, oncoming traffic, pedestrian hazard, slippery/uneven road surface, etc..
Do airline pilots with "zillions" of flight hours on their clock fly their commercial airline carriers upside down or in loopings just because they are able to?
Of course race track is a good answer for training purposes, but I'm quite sure Vipers can be very rewarding to drive also when handled within reason, not getting anywhere near the limit.
There is this American saying about cars which goes : "Horsepower sells cars, Torque wins races". In that regard, Vipers really are truly special machines. If 450HP isn't really a shy number in terms of power (even by 2020 standards), 665Nm of torque really is the figure that should switch brains on (for anyone who actually has a brain)
It is EXACTLY what MoparMap was talking about when writing : "it's torque right off idle". It just doesn't get any simpler than that!
Anybody thinking about making bumper stickers or a T-shirts out of it?!

 

[steel snake]

Ok, my last comments: I'm done trying to scare you to death. It's torque that let's you release the clutch without giving it gas and it moves just like an automatic tranny. Like MoparMap says, these things are ***** cats until you stick your foot in it. Depending on the local speed limits I like cruising around town in first or second, get those revs up and listen to it burble down as you come to a stop light. Give it a tiny stab on t/o just to give a mini hint of what's under the hood. Sure other cars have a lot of HP now, but you're the one driving the Viper. You're gonna luv that car!!

 

[steve e]

All great advice from everyone, and no one is trying to scare you, we just do not want you to get hurt, so we are just making sure you be careful, like mopar said you can drive it like a Honda if you want. But I will admit my first Viper a 95, I was insane, I would lay down miles of rubber all over town. Back in 95 no car had such wide tires and the rubber marks were wild, but I think one cop was wise to me when he asked, Steve have any idea what klnd of car could do that, I have no idea.