" The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sales"

[v10enomous]

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/new-corvette-could-rev-up-muscle-car-sales-2013-08-01?siteid=yhoof2

 

[v10enomous]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Redneck Lamborghini 320 sold.

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Redneck Lamborghini 320 sold.

So they've sold half of what they built through June 30th... I figured it would be higher, oh wells.

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

SRTs biggest issue is, except for car nuts, no one really knows the car is back.

 

[v10enomous]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

They are comparing apples and oranges. A lot of 2013 Camaros sold for $24k and a lot of 2013 Corvettes sold for $39k. Taking the glass half full view I say this article just shows how nice it will be for GenV owners to have something unique and exclusive.

 

[Andrew/USPWR]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I hate to say it but seeing it for the first time last week and sitting in it, I was surprised how much it looked like the Gen2 GTS. Which I thought was great but didn't make me want to buy it. I'd almost buy my 2000 GTS again for $40k. Don't know I'm just not feeling it

 

[46hemi]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

How is the number of 320 calculated?

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

How is the number of 320 calculated?

Cars registered by dealers as sold, (a month behind, so doesn't include Jupy sales)

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I also wonder how much production Delays played into so far slower sales

 

[Policy Limits]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Like the CEO said, this car isn't about profit. It's a symbol of the brand and the flagship model for the other more realistic mass produced miles like the grand Cherokee, etc. it stands for even more than being a flagship to a brand. It's a resurrection, a metaphor for determination, persistence and the if there's a will philosophy.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it; maybe the Detroit auto industry should've gone bankrupt with the city itself. All I know is I do think the car is great, glad it's back, and feel fortunate to be one of a limited number of owners.

 

[DMan]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I hate to say it but seeing it for the first time last week and sitting in it, I was surprised how much it looked like the Gen2 GTS. Which I thought was great but didn't make me want to buy it. I'd almost buy my 2000 GTS again for $40k. Don't know I'm just not feeling it

I am feeling it, in that I like it a lot. But I definitely get what you're saying. On two occassions I was at car events with the gen5 there along with various other gens and people were looking at the gen5 from 30 ft away and you could them say that's an old one, no wait, um, is that the new one, etc. It's very gen2 to an average eye for sure, and I'm talking about skin deep. This is actually where I think the SRT hood helps define it better, that hood is more agressive in person and more easily makes it look like a hybrid of gen2 and gen-something.

What's funny is - when I finally saw the gen5 and drove it last fall, I told my son, I want it but no chance I'll get one for at least a yr. The CEO says all are sold already & any that cancel will be marked way up, etc. And here we are with looks to be plenty, although limited options, but that's been our history & no big deal. I'd never have thought that 6 mos into the launch I could go buy one for $5-6k off on an SRT or $10k off on a GTS. I'm surprised I was so far off, I really thought SRT did everything right (except the fiasco with the 1st MT test, but they recovered nicely). The exotic bang for the buck is there on this gen5, I find it funny it's not taking off like crazy. But I"m a bit of a fan'boy obviously, so ...

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

SRTs biggest issue is, except for car nuts, no one really knows the car is back.

That is not their biggest issue at all. I didn't like the viper at all untill this one and I was able to track it. Many others can as well. I've already gone over countless times what is killing them for sales. It is the same thing killing GTR sales as well for such a "bargain supercar"

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Like the CEO said, this car isn't about profit. It's a symbol of the brand and the flagship model for the other more realistic mass produced miles like the grand Cherokee, etc. it stands for even more than being a flagship to a brand. It's a resurrection, a metaphor for determination, persistence and the if there's a will philosophy.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it; maybe the Detroit auto industry should've gone bankrupt with the city itself. All I know is I do think the car is great, glad it's back, and feel fortunate to be one of a limited number of owners.

That is a really expensive symbol then

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I am feeling it, in that I like it a lot. But I definitely get what you're saying. On two occassions I was at car events with the gen5 there along with various other gens and people were looking at the gen5 from 30 ft away and you could them say that's an old one, no wait, um, is that the new one, etc. It's very gen2 to an average eye for sure, and I'm talking about skin deep. This is actually where I think the SRT hood helps define it better, that hood is more agressive in person and more easily makes it look like a hybrid of gen2 and gen-something.

What's funny is - when I finally saw the gen5 and drove it last fall, I told my son, I want it but no chance I'll get one for at least a yr. The CEO says all are sold already & any that cancel will be marked way up, etc. And here we are with looks to be plenty, although limited options, but that's been our history & no big deal. I'd never have thought that 6 mos into the launch I could go buy one for $5-6k off on an SRT or $10k off on a GTS. I'm surprised I was so far off, I really thought SRT did everything right (except the fiasco with the 1st MT test, but they recovered nicely). The exotic bang for the buck is there on this gen5, I find it funny it's not taking off like crazy. But I"m a bit of a fan'boy obviously, so ...

You can have the best car ever but if people can't get a taste of it, it will be hard to sell. Think of it like buying a movie based only on the trailer. Sometimes the movie is great but other times the trailer is great and the movie ***** but if you can't go see the movie you will never know for urself.

 

[Policy Limits]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

so how many did they make (or are they making lol) for this year? 700? if 320 is really the number, they would've sold about 1/2

still see lots of listings with tens of thousands over sticker; still say the sky aint fallin'

 

[PDCjonny]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

That is not their biggest issue at all. I didn't like the viper at all untill this one and I was able to track it. "

Yeah, this is the first track worthy Viper.
Oh wait....there was that one model that ran somewhere in Germany, heard it did okay.

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Yeah, this is the first track worthy Viper.
Oh wait....there was that one model that ran somewhere in Germany, heard it did okay.

By track I mean like tracking like keeping track of it or following it. Not going on a race track.

 

[Sleekride]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

In order to get customers to buy a product said product should be priced accordingly. I believe Chrysler/Dodge was too aggressive with their pricing structure. The sub <100k priced SRT model starts to loose luster when you tack on options. Add taxes and miscellaneous fees and you are in the 110k range. I will not even get into GTS as the pricing, TO ME ONLY, seems ludicrous. A Viper can and probably is perceived as a niche vehicle. I had hoped to get into a Gen 5 after getting rid of my Gen 3, but now find myself looking at other options specifically due to pricing.

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

In order to get customers to buy a product said product should be priced accordingly. I believe Chrysler/Dodge was too aggressive with their pricing structure. The sub <100k priced SRT model starts to loose luster when you tack on options. Add taxes and miscellaneous fees and you are in the 110k range. I will not even get into GTS as the pricing, TO ME ONLY, seems ludicrous. A Viper can and probably is perceived as a niche vehicle. I had hoped to get into a Gen 5 after getting rid of my Gen 3, but now find myself looking at other options specifically due to pricing.

I agree with what you are saying. But price is not enough to deter me. Especially when GTS are now going for 10k off. I think if the SRT started around 70s-80s and the GTS started at 100 and was max 130 it would be a lot better. But this is more due to their inefficient production techniques more than them trying to be greedy so I understand why the price is higher especially when compared to say a zr1.

 

[v10enomous]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Base on a Viper SRT is about $102k with destination and gas guzzler tax with cars nicely equipped at $108k. I believe a C6 ZR1 base is about $114k and I have seen none with an MSRP under $120K. I'm curious how many ZR1's sold in 2013.

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

In order to get customers to buy a product said product should be priced accordingly. I believe Chrysler/Dodge was too aggressive with their pricing structure. The sub <100k priced SRT model starts to loose luster when you tack on options. Add taxes and miscellaneous fees and you are in the 110k range. I will not even get into GTS as the pricing, TO ME ONLY, seems ludicrous. A Viper can and probably is perceived as a niche vehicle. I had hoped to get into a Gen 5 after getting rid of my Gen 3, but now find myself looking at other options specifically due to pricing.

I see it as dealers saw the GTS and though "we will make so much money" nd they all ordered them. There were a reported 70 SRT models ordered (beyond the 100 red SRT track packs).

I suspect dealers priced themselves out of a bit of the market simply by greed. I'd bet if there were more SRT under $110k they would have moved faster.

 

[PDCjonny]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

The real test is next year when the hoopla is over and there are still '13's on the lot.
No vert or ACR in the lineup to stir up renewed interest.
The '14 sales will be the make or break.

 

[SRTviper]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Base on a Viper SRT is about $102k with destination and gas guzzler tax with cars nicely equipped at $108k. I believe a C6 ZR1 base is about $114k and I have seen none with an MSRP under $120K. I'm curious how many ZR1's sold in 2013.

There are tons of 3z zr1s sitting on dealer lots with an MSRP of 125-130k selling for 113k and under right now. And the zr1s sales since entry has dwindled due to the fact that they really didn't change it at all since 2009. Those that wanted it got it. In 2009 they sold thousands of them. But still every year they are in the thousands. Thought I think 2012 was like 1500 or something. The viper use to be a niche car but now it is trying to evolve past that so it needs to be priced competitively. Or it needs more quality to justify the higher price to buyers.

 

[BigDawg]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I'm not here to bash only relay my thoughts. I know it's a touchy subject and I know it's been beat to death. It's the performance issue. Yes yes I know the Gen V does in fact kick ass, but the bar has been raised substantially. We have mustangs with 650HP. Ferrari and Lamborghini's are actually fast again. There was a time, when the Viper was the hated King, that Ferrari and Lambo owners knew their cars weren't all the fast. They bought them for other reasons. Especially Porsche owners. Now you have 911 TT and Nissan GTRs and Aventadors and F12s, all nice exotics (except Porsche, it's not exotic) that on paper kill the Viper. We all know how capable the Viper is on a road course but it doesn't have the paper recognition like the Gen I and II did during their time. The Gen V is lost in a sea of options.

And for the most controversial, FIAT IS COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE NOT BEING 700HP+. Ralph and Sergio denied it so it must be true right? No executive in their right mind would ever admit to a practice such as that. A little dirt got out on BMW when they were trying to detune the M1 because it waxed the M3, it's bigger brother. FIAT now has control of one of the two Ferrari eaters (Corvette and Viper). They have a new flagship exotic for their company, the F12. The days of accepting your $250k (now $400k) car not being the "fastest" (allegedly on paper) are long gone. People would want to know why a $110k Viper was killing their $400k Ferrari. And if the owners aren't the reason then it's Ferrari's Ego. Regardless, They are holding the Viper back. Yeah yeah I know the Ring times but I am convinced FIAT has set rules and limits for the Viper.

Just my thoughts. And it would help if the back balanced out the bulbous front of the Gen V.

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

Personally I don't see Fiat holding SRT back.

No one who buys an F12 gives a hoot if the Viper had more power. At least, you wouldn't find me caring if it was in my budget.

I don't see HP having much to do with it. Personally I see it as visibility the car is available for purchase. I think most simply have no idea the Viper is back. I could be dead wrong!

 

[Voice of Reason]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I think we are going to see strong price compression between the base and GTS models as time goes by. By that I mean in a year a used base that MSRP'd at 110 will sell for 90, where as a GTS that MSRP'd at 130 will sell for 100. $7000 leather dash options may be a big selling point for someone ordering their car but in the used market it's an option that's getting in the way of someone looking for the best deal, so they won't pay a premium for it. If there's only 170 base model '13s ever built those will depreciate slower than their more spendy luxurious brothers.

 

[swexlin]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I'm not here to bash only relay my thoughts. I know it's a touchy subject and I know it's been beat to death. It's the performance issue. Yes yes I know the Gen V does in fact kick ass, but the bar has been raised substantially. We have mustangs with 650HP. Ferrari and Lamborghini's are actually fast again. There was a time, when the Viper was the hated King, that Ferrari and Lambo owners knew their cars weren't all the fast. They bought them for other reasons. Especially Porsche owners. Now you have 911 TT and Nissan GTRs and Aventadors and F12s, all nice exotics (except Porsche, it's not exotic) that on paper kill the Viper. We all know how capable the Viper is on a road course but it doesn't have the paper recognition like the Gen I and II did during their time. The Gen V is lost in a sea of options.

And for the most controversial, FIAT IS COMPLETELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THERE NOT BEING 700HP+. Ralph and Sergio denied it so it must be true right? No executive in their right mind would ever admit to a practice such as that. A little dirt got out on BMW when they were trying to detune the M1 because it waxed the M3, it's bigger brother. FIAT now has control of one of the two Ferrari eaters (Corvette and Viper). They have a new flagship exotic for their company, the F12. The days of accepting your $250k (now $400k) car not being the "fastest" (allegedly on paper) are long gone. People would want to know why a $110k Viper was killing their $400k Ferrari. And if the owners aren't the reason then it's Ferrari's Ego. Regardless, They are holding the Viper back. Yeah yeah I know the Ring times but I am convinced FIAT has set rules and limits for the Viper.

Just my thoughts. And it would help if the back balanced out the bulbous front of the Gen V.

I agree with everything you just said. Back in the 90s, there wasn't much that could touch a Viper, performance-wise stock off the showroom floor.

 

[Beny1998]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I see it as dealers saw the GTS and though "we will make so much money" nd they all ordered them. There were a reported 70 SRT models ordered (beyond the 100 red SRT track packs).

I suspect dealers priced themselves out of a bit of the market simply by greed. I'd bet if there were more SRT under $110k they would have moved faster.

There are currently only 53 SRT Vipers (Non-GTS) in-stock and in-transit showing on the dealer locate, which some of them could be pre-sold cars. That is US only and includes the Red launch cars! I think the dealers will start to order more of the SRT cars.

 

[v10enomous]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

This article was written by another so called journalist that doesn't know much about Vipers. Does he harken back to the day when Viper sales easily outpaced Camaros and Corvette sales... ...and now the glory days are over for the Viper A lot of people just don't know Vipers and have any historical context when they write about them. Just last night an old high school buddy was looking at my car in the garage and telling me how it's just not as nice as my SS Chevelle that we rode around in together back in 1976. He looks at my car and he still thinks it's a Dodge Stealth So misunderstood I can give my old stoner buddy a pass but not a guy writing automotive articles

Just who are these guys...— Silvia Ascarelli and Maria Lamagna

 

[ViperSmith]

Re: " The new Viper is exotic and curvy, but the glory days are gone at least by sale

I agree with everything you just said. Back in the 90s, there wasn't much that could touch a Viper, performance-wise stock off the showroom floor.

This isn't 1992 anymore where 100 extra HP meant you crushed everyone else. HP isn't the be all end all in 2013.