Thinking about racing (yes, racing) the Viper - Advice?

[ntmatter]

I've been thinking about getting a bit more seriously into racing, and have been looking at the SCCA clubralley groups as a starting place for my rookie year. I'm trying to decide if I should race my GTS (I don't even know if they have a class for this), or get a used race-ready Porsche for $20K or so and race it instead of putting the money into the snake. Because I'm a total newbie at this, I was hoping to solicit advice from the group:

1. Is there a regional race league that is a good starting place? Somewhere where I can start with a stock or moderately modified car and not have to constantly worry about it getting smashed up?

2. Does anyone have any experience or advice on getting started - hidden expenses, good investments for time/money, etc.?

3. Recommendations for starting out? I'm thinking full race car, but should I start with karting? Formula Ford?

Anyway, I figure 30 is a good age to get started with this - young enough to think it's a good idea, but old enough to afford it.

Andy

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

YES! Do it!

If you want to race your Viper I would first look into local club events. Many clubs will rent a track for a day for an "open track day", no competition, just good solid seat time. Call tracks in your area to see what clubs lease them. Here in Florida I belong to two clubs. I just sent one of them a $175 check to race at Homestead next month. I'll get so much seat time I'll be on the track till my brakes burn up.

Go to as many Viper Days events as you can. It's safe and you can go as fast as you are capable. Much like the club events I go to.

After 6 or more events you'll be able to answer your own questions.

 

[THEMASH]

I would get the Porsche. The Viper is expensive to fix if you crash it.
I have also seen a few cars on duPont Registry, "track only" with a better power/weight ratio then the viper and cost $30K brand new. And that included everything including slicks, roll bar, racing seats, fire system, ...etc... .I read somewhere about these cars that you could get the whole body for about $3K if you crash "one peace body shell", the hood on the viper alone is what? $8K
I will try to find more INFO about these cars and post the name/web site of the company.

 

[Dion Fisher]

Andy?? I LOVE IT!! I put together one track day for the club and get you out then look what happens you get "BITTEN"

I have been contemplating the same question for the last three years and have looked inside of this venue to find that it is in fact VERY expensive..

That's the reason why i'm still going to schools and doing lapping days (8,000+ miles so far).. I would suggest you do the same and polish your skills while learning the limits of the car (so you can be a frontrunner) while you're thinking about it..

Then take an Advanced Competition Driving School (in their cars).. I heard from Don&Donna you went out again for a lapping day-good- hope to see ya' at PIR on the 28th

Here's what i've found;
Bare minimum (that means no weedwhackin' or wall scrapin') We're talking $300.00-400.00 in brake pads,$1200.00 worth of rubber,$60.00-90.00 worth of pump gas,about $275.00-$350.00 for entrance fees for 1 weekend plus travel, hotels or camping and tow vehicle costs((just to get started))..

Then comes race vehicle maintenance oils get broken down quicker brake fluid needs bleeding,cooling system problems can start pulling at the wallet,calipers and rotors need more attention and replacement, hubs wear faster from the heat, grease boils out of the ball joints, the oil pan needs to be baffled to keep oil in the right areas, you need a cage installed, fire suppression system installed, full race gear then there's the DEMON setups and fixes and the list goes on and on and on and on and......

Also unless you got lots of money you need to get intimate with the cars inner workings.. My car spends so much time on jacks in my shop it seems like it's seldom on the ground and i'm still just a schoolie I couldn't imagine what it would be like when things got real..YIKES!!

 

[kverges]

You should contact Bobby Archer in Ft. Worth and others who race, in order to get an idea of budget and preparation.

If "race" means wheel-to-wheel to you, you MUST have a roll cage and harnesses, at a minimum. If you want to club race, you are limited to T1 in SCCA and NASA or Viper Days. Otherwise, you will have to step up to Speedvision or ALMS. Many Viper owners do this and I am sure can fill you in.

Also, if you are not comfortable with the prospect of damaging - perhaps heavily - your car, you won't enjoy racing. My limited racing experience tells me that there is plenty of traffic, close quarters, and AGGRESSIVE overtaking involved. You can't avoid this by driving gingerly, as someone else might careen into you and who wants to end up last by driving gingerly? When you race you are at 10/10s and teh possibiliy of crashing is always present. But it is the most fun I have ever had with my clothes on ;-)

What I do is stick to lapping days and solo events with my Vipers (and I totalled my '98 in the Avatar anyway!), and race a girly Miata in Spec Miata. Since I genuinely hate the Miata, I have no problem driving it that way! And if I should *** it up, I can walk away from it for less than the retail price of a Viper hood.

Finally, go to formal racing school. Not just driving school, but RACING school. Most of the good programs offer advanced racing techinques courses. I am going back to school again in December, even though I race - I am sure I still have much to learn.

Bottom line: I would not race a Viper unless I had a dedicated race car and a budget of close to 6 figures to run a full season. So I stick with the girly car until I get rich somehow.

 

[Jim Hodel]

I have a friend who races his ITE class Z28. He has had numerous off course excursions and associated contact with solid objects. It takes an extra level of psychic energy to run wheel to wheel with other cars/drivers. He’s a pretty fast driver.

I don't have numbers, but it has been quite expensive to run his Z28 and he does 95% of the work himself, and I mean he is wrenching on his car constantly. Partly, because he turned his street car into a race car himself, rather then buying a sorted out race car. Also, he had to buy a trailer and tow vehicle….

There are several classes of regional competition where your Viper could run. Touring One (T1), is for 'semi stock' cars, and I think cars can have springs, shocks, and exhaust. The brakes need to be stock and the rules vary by make. Of course, you will need a full cage and other safety equipment. Currently, a Viper GTS (Roger Stark I believe, of Cardiac Racing) is doing very well running against mostly Z06s, although Porsche 996s are also in T1.

ITE is a catch all class with modified Z28s, Porsche 944 turbos, Porsche 911s, and even tube frame GT1 cars. It is an interesting class, and cars can run lots of mods. The current fast ITE cars are running times about like the T1 Viper. I’d like to see an ITE Viper with some serious mods run in ITE. Such a car might be similar to some of the monsters I saw at Viper Days.

Some budget racers I know run 1st gen Rx-7’s in the Pro 7 class, or Camaros/Mustangs in American Sedan or Conference Prepared. The SCCA, Cascade Sports Car Club, and Team Continental are all good groups to join to get the real lowdown on race groups, training, and rookie procedures.

Since it looks like you live in the Northwest, I hope to see you at our Viper club PIR track day at the end of September

Jim

 

[ntmatter]

I unfortunately won't be able to make the PIR track day in September - the car will have just gotten out of the paint shop to fix this year's hood and bumper dings and will sit for 2 months, then get stone-guarded. My plan right now is to take the SCCA race course, probably in Las Vegas, probably in February or March. So, I have two choices:

1. I can run the Viper pretty much as is (it has a restraint and rollbar, which I can mod into a roll cage) and use $20K for repairs, supplies, and other minor updates. Then, God willing, Microsoft's stock will eventually rebound (I'm an employee) and I'll be able to afford a street Viper along with my race Viper.

2. Or I can spend $20K on a race-ready Porsche, BMW, or Camaro, treat it like a shake-and-bake bag, and ditch it like a trailerpark girlfriend when I'm done with it.

I'm well aware that there will be mechanical expenses involved in a season - in my 3 track days this year I've burned out a fuel pump, lost a valve stem, and ground my brake pads down to bare metal. (As a word of advice, running metal-on-metal is very, very bad for your HRE wheels. The metal shavings embedded in the aluminum, rusted, and took me 8 hours to polish off.) Since I'm leaning towards option 2, I guess I'd be interested in figuring out a class to run in where I can really race (instead of autocross) with a reasonable expectation of being able to finish without major bodywork or mechanical repairs each weekend.

Andy yes, Dion, I'm BITTEN. I heel-and-toe every shift in my WRX, look for the apex on every turn during my commute, and pretty much have the TV permanently set to Speedvision.

 

[Dion Fisher]

Good boy Andy!!

Keep practicing your heel and toe and smoothing out those corners.. It does make parts of the commute fun dosen't it??.. So hard to be a good boy!!??

Also Try taking different lines through the same corners and get a feel.. Then when nobody's around (keepin' it safe) try to build speed through the set while working your apex(s) and exits.. I do it all the time

Just watch out for who's watching you when you start working your drifts in your WRX-he-he...