Tommy Archer instructing at Viper Days!!!

[Boxer12]

Hey guys and gals, not sure if you all are aware of this but anyone can arrange for Tommy Archer to instruct them in piloting a Viper at the limit at Viper Days events this season. I took him up on it for a day at Sebring. I was there two days struggling to get the right line and decided to bite the bullet and poney up a little cash to see what happened. Tommy took my car out on the track and blew my mind, opened my eyes and imagination to the true potential of the ACR. It is truly an amazing car in the hands of a gifted driver like Tommy. That fact didn't really surprise me, just the degree of difference between his level of performance behind the wheel and my own. Sure, I knew on paper how fast he is, but didn't really appreciate that in my gut until the moment we were going 110 drifting toward the wall, motor blasting against the concrete barriers, the side mirror nearly scraped (or so it seemed) coming onto the first turn (from the paddock exit). I was breathless for most of the lapping session, clutching the handle of the door. It just took a while to comprehend, but it would be impossible to reach that level of performance I think without experiencing it first hand. Tommy explained that to me, and that he wasn't trying to just scare me. In fact, after 4 or 5 sessions I could actually relax while we went around Sebring at blazing fast speeds and focus on the myriad of details that he was conveying as we blew away everything else out there. I immediately went out and dropped 8 seconds off my lap time, the first couple sessions after his coaching! Let me repeat that, 8 SECONDS! That was just the beginning. I continued to push the envelope and was taking off 2 or 3 seconds from that session forward until Sunday atternoon when the track was getting slick in the sun and my A6's were getting real greasy. In two days, 6 sessions with Tommy, I took off 14 seconds.

This was one of the most amazing weekends I have ever had driving. I have been to racing school and had several other driving instructors. I have always benefitted but Tommy is by far the best driving coach I have come across. The typical result for me is to take off about 3 to 5 seconds from day one to day 3 of driving with or without coaching at a new track. Maybe the best part of this, like his brother John said to me, I just saved about $10k in parts/labor to try to make my car faster. We were talking Motons, lexan, etc..... I don't know how long this opportunity will exist for us, so I highly recommend you take advantage of the opportunity if you can! You will be amazed, I guarantee it. I personally cannot wait until my next opportunity! Jim

 

[F8L SNK]

Thanks for the write up. Tommy is obviously an awesome driver and it sounds like he is a great teacher as well. Glad to hear the results

 

[Boxer12]

Sure, my pleasure. The more I think about it the more amazed I am. Typical racing school experience cannot compare, at least for someone who already knows the difference between an early and late apex. Texas is next on the schedule.

 

[F8L SNK]

I know and I have not even run MSR Cresson yet so this may be really good. I would love to get some great instruction and I am going to check into Tommy's instruction, I might need him to tell me what early/late apexing is though

 

[Vic]

That must have been a spectacular experience, riding with Tommy. I bet you learned a lot. I've never had the pleasure, but I did learn some from those I rode with. Mind if I ramble on a bit?

One thing that most struck me, most stood out in my mind, about driving with Paul Mumford, was when at track out, while exiting the turn, he pointed out just how much room I had left over between my car and the edge of the track. He said I could have pushed it that much harder at apex, since I had so much room left over to catch the car. I never forgot that, and every lap I tried to push it just a little harder, just a little bit at a time, until I started using the whole track at turn exit. My racing budget ran out before I got that perfected!

This isnt an exact quote, but iirc, Terri Rossi taught me not to "steer" the car through the correct line from apex to track out, but rather to keep the steering wheel turned at apex, and use the gas to make the car drift out to where it should be at track out. As compared to "steering" the car along the preferred "qualifying line", you just push it harder with the gas at apex, let it understeer a little, and the car drifts out gently to the edge of the track. You unwind the wheel along the way, but its going to the track out position by virtue of the slip angle, not because you are steering it there with the wheel. The car ends up in the same lateral track out position, but you reach it at a higher speed. I have a feeling some people will take exception to this, and I know thats not typical driving school instruction, where they tell you to steer the car along the preferred line all the time. I dont think they want to teach new drivers to maximize the slip angle too early in their development. Terri did a 1:29 in a stock Gen2 Viper at WSIR big track, last time I knew. Worked for him! He frequently ran faster times in "prepared" class, than many ran in "modified".

Another thing I learned from Ken Adelberg, was that when you are driving on street tires, once you get them to just start screeching steadily through a turn, you've got approx another 5-7 miles an hour that you can go faster, before they break loose. Willow Springs has some long, fairly constant radius turns where you can experiment with this. As a newbie, I realized that I wasnt even making the street tires squeal through most turns. That made me see just how much faster I had to go to get anywhere near the car's potential, even with stock alignment and streets on. But no matter how many times I went to Willow Springs big track, I could never go fast enough through Willow's long, fast Turn 8 to get the streets barking. Something always started to pucker up and slow me down, before I got going that fast.

Sorry if this post drifts a bit off topic from Tommy's availability at Viper Days. Just thought I'd share some observations. I would highly reccomend that anyone who owns a Viper, go to Viper Days. We have SO MANY WRECKED VIPERS, mostly new owners who dont know how to drive fast, and especially dont understand specifically how to drive a Viper fast. Just a week ago, someone stuffed one into a wall out here in So Cal. Just goes to show you, we all could benefit from more instruction and practice. Not just to become track stars, but also to learn to be safe on public roads. The car control you learn at Viper Days absolutely translates to street driving. And wow! Learning from Speed GT series champ Tommy Archer! Dayum, dont get no better than that! It truly is a service to Viper owners everywhere to have such an incredibly high level of instruction available at Viper Days!

Great post, Boxer!

 

[Dave Scott]

I know and I have not even run MSR Cresson yet so this may be really good. I would love to get some great instruction and I am going to check into Tommy's instruction, I might need him to tell me what early/late apexing is though

Yup, Jim, coaching is truly worth its cost. I am glad you had such a great experience!

F8L, I will be Chief Instructor for the 2 day MSR Cresson event. It is one of my two "home tracks", and I will also be available for private coaching on the Friday open track day immediately before...

 

[Boxer12]

Yup, Jim, coaching is truly worth its cost. I am glad you had such a great experience!

F8L, I will be Chief Instructor for the 2 day MSR Cresson event. It is one of my two "home tracks", and I will also be available for private coaching on the Friday open track day immediately before...

Dave, I should have mentioned that you would also be coaching/instructing. As you recall, I had inquired about your availability at Sebring...sorry you couldn't make it. Can you fill us in on your background a little? I think everyone needs to know the caliber of instructors at Viper Days...it is truly a unique opportunity for us as a group. As I said, I have had instructors and coaches before, but even the two times I rode with a pro, didn't compare. I have never been able to lay down rubber around corners like the racers, and to FEEL MY CAR do that was truly enlightening. I tiptoe up to that 90% margin, but the real time is in that 90-100% margin. The car really hooks up and those Hoosiers bite in a way that you cannot really imagine if you have never been in a car when those cars are biting.

F8L, let me try to describe what I think I experienced. When the slick starts to slide, as you power through the corner, it actually seems like the bite increases like a sweet spot on the torque curve. It did not feel linear like it does below that 90% margin. That is what it felt like to me. ow, I have exceeded the grip with slicks and spun out, but it was a case of oversteer, too much throttle and/ or cold tires. The sweet spot is missed in that situation. Dave, was that accurate? (I know you might not want to give free advice, that advice is your stock in trade, so its cool if you don't reply).

Anyway, like Tommy says, and I am sure Dave agrees, a lot of guys wait to get instruction thinking they aren't ready for it yet. I am not talking about HPDE instructors, that is always available for everyone in Viper Days. I am talking about taking your driving to the next level. It is NEVER TOO EARLY. I just clocked over 2000 track miles on my ACR, and I WISH I had gotten that experience on DAY 1. I would have been a lot faster a lot sooner, although I immediately dropped 5 sec off my times at Mid-Ohio with the ACR versus the GTS. I think there is a possibility it would have been 10-15 seconds if I had the right coach and can't wait to get back there and try out my new skills. I am disappointed that neither Putnam or Mid_Ohio (my home tracks) are on the schedule, but I cannot wait for MMP now. I already have Tommy booked! I hope that event comes before NASA Nationals this year. I was only 5 sec behind first place last year, and I had only about 100 track miles on the car and no driver coach. (I had talked to Cindy Lux, but she had a committment that came up at the last minute.) Yea, I expect that Cindy will be at VOI and MMP this year, but you all should check that. I am probably going to stick with Tommy for consistency sake for now, as long as he is available. What a great guy he is too. Truly a pleasure to work with. Like I told Tommy, I can feel that this is going to be a special year!

Vic, thanks for contributing. I think the more substance on topic the better! I with more ppl would share their experiences. Speaking of which, the guys in the VRL all seem more than happy to take a little to time to share their experiences on the track, just get there early and stay around a little while after the track goes cold.

 

[Boxer12]

I should also mention, a lot of the racers were hiring Tommy just to take their car out and give them setup advice. That is also an option for everyone. I don't know if Dave or Cindy do that too, but I don't know why they wouldn't if asked. I got a little free advice from Tommy along those lines, had Russ at Archer change my alignment, and dropped another 3 seconds right out of the box! Wow, these guys are good!!

So, a little extra money for a Viper Days event compared to NASA or my local clubs, but the expertise they bring to the track is 'like they say in the ad', PRICELESS!

 

[Dave Scott]

Jim, yeah, it was a bummer I was not able to make it. I thought I would, and had two clients lined up. One got sick with the flu, and had to withdraw at the very last minute. The other withdrew about 10 days prior to the event, due to having to go overseas for business. FYI, one was a Porsche racer, the other a BMW racer.

Background: 8 1/2 years with the Diplomatic Security Service (State Dept's version of Secret Service), the final 3 1/2 years of which I was on the US Secretary of State's personal security detail as Primary Driver. So I learned how to drive armored sedans & Suburbans at very high speeds on tracks like Summit Point, etc.

Got married, got sick of the travel 24/7, and went into the private sector selling high tech stuff.

Started doing DE's/track days in 2002, and discovered the exact same concepts I learned driving armored Suburbans at 100mph were key in sports cars, too: weight transfer, center of mass management, tire contact patch management, not surprising the vehicle, etc.

Started racing at the club/amateur level in 2003, along with instructing at car club DE's.

Started racing at the professional level in 2004 (mostly Grand Am Cup, now called Continental Challenge) in BMW's. Did very, very well on a team of 4 cars/8 drivers. Also dabbled a bit in Speed WC Touring Car, but certainly not at Tommy's level. I won't mislead you about that. I was mid pack in WCT.

As a promise to my wife, I quit pro racing for 3 years in early 2006 when our daughter was born. At that time, started doing a lot of advanced instructing and private coaching. My clients have included & still include track day folks, beginning amateur racers, experienced amateur racers, and active pros. I also do a decent amount of car testing for various folks. I have occasionally raced since then in SCCA (Spec Racer Ford) and PCA (911's) and others, and maintain the following active racing licenses: FIA "B" professional license; SCCA National license; PCA license.

While Tommy is undoubtedly much better at analyzing set up issues on Vipers than I am, I believe any good coach--who is articulate and engaged with the client--should be able to develop a quick comfortable rapport with you, so that you feel in sync with him/her, and you can improve rapidly as a driver. There are MANY exceptional drivers out there who turn out to be lousy coaches.

Yeah, they can drive your car fast, but they **** at riding with you, and looking at your data & video, and quickly coming up with a list of action items to improve your driving....and then working through them with you one by one, with easily documented milestones of achievement. A good coach will excel at this. It sounds like Tommy is one of these, and I take the same approach.

Hope that answered your questions!

 

[eucharistos]

Hey guys and gals, not sure if you all are aware of this but anyone can arrange for Tommy Archer to instruct them in piloting a Viper at the limit at Viper Days events this season. I took him up on it for a day at Sebring. I was there two days struggling to get the right line and decided to bite the bullet and poney up a little cash to see what happened. Tommy took my car out on the track and blew my mind, opened my eyes and imagination to the true potential of the ACR. It is truly an amazing car in the hands of a gifted driver like Tommy. That fact didn't really surprise me, just the degree of difference between his level of performance behind the wheel and my own. Sure, I knew on paper how fast he is, but didn't really appreciate that in my gut until the moment we were going 110 drifting toward the wall, motor blasting against the concrete barriers, the side mirror nearly scraped (or so it seemed) coming onto the first turn (from the paddock exit). I was breathless for most of the lapping session, clutching the handle of the door. It just took a while to comprehend, but it would be impossible to reach that level of performance I think without experiencing it first hand. Tommy explained that to me, and that he wasn't trying to just scare me. In fact, after 4 or 5 sessions I could actually relax while we went around Sebring at blazing fast speeds and focus on the myriad of details that he was conveying as we blew away everything else out there. I immediately went out and dropped 8 seconds off my lap time, the first couple sessions after his coaching! Let me repeat that, 8 SECONDS! That was just the beginning. I continued to push the envelope and was taking off 2 or 3 seconds from that session forward until Sunday atternoon when the track was getting slick in the sun and my A6's were getting real greasy. In two days, 6 sessions with Tommy, I took off 14 seconds.

This was one of the most amazing weekends I have ever had driving. I have been to racing school and had several other driving instructors. I have always benefitted but Tommy is by far the best driving coach I have come across. The typical result for me is to take off about 3 to 5 seconds from day one to day 3 of driving with or without coaching at a new track. Maybe the best part of this, like his brother John said to me, I just saved about $10k in parts/labor to try to make my car faster. We were talking Motons, lexan, etc..... I don't know how long this opportunity will exist for us, so I highly recommend you take advantage of the opportunity if you can! You will be amazed, I guarantee it. I personally cannot wait until my next opportunity! Jim

hey Boxer12, this post and a pic is worthy of any auto magazine

thanks for the the post and please keep us posted how your times are doing

I was only 5 sec behind first place last year

 

[steve911]

I was waiting for someone else to ask the big question, but seeing no one else has, I will. What is the approximate cost of having some private or 1 on 1 instruction cost? Is it typically priced by the hour or day or?

thanks
Steve A.

 

[Boxer12]

Here you go, and yea, at 5 sec behind (at Miller), I have a long ways to go for even a podium finish (1-2 was a hundredth of a second gap), but I think my learning curve is a lot steeper in the ACR (from a GTS) than the other contenders who have been working for years with the same car to get where they are (Z06's and CC's). Mainly, I wasn't driving the ACR any better at Miller than when I got to Sebring....its just an entirely different animal than the GTS with unimaginable performance ability compared to the older cars due to the downforce. I compared my segments to the top ST2 car and he was going much faster in the high speed corners, to the tune of about a second or two in each of the three parts of the track where the downforce would have really kicked into gear.

Here is a pic, fwiw...(I know, I need to lose the holiday weight gain...omg, plus 10-15...but this is just a test and tune event...lol)

 

[Boxer12]

Steve, I don't think venders can post costs on this site. Well worth it, considering I burn up a set of tires every event.

 

[Dave Scott]

I was waiting for someone else to ask the big question, but seeing no one else has, I will. What is the approximate cost of having some private or 1 on 1 instruction cost? Is it typically priced by the hour or day or?

thanks
Steve A.

Steve, it would not be appropriate, nor respectful of the rules of this forum, to post that information. Feel free to email me if you wish, and I will try to answer your questions: [email protected]

 

[fastmd]

Sounds like that was a great investment... I am going to look into doing the same with Tommy/Cindy/Dave....

 

[steve911]

My post wasn't meant solicite price quotes for either of these fine gentlemen. I was merely looking for an abstract comparison (just like Boxer 12 provided).

My apologies to one and all if I offended anyone

Steve A.

 

[Dave Scott]

I don't think anyone took offense. But none of us want to get banned from this forum, either!

 

[Boxer12]

So Dave, you are in the Southwest region of the country? You mentioned MSR, what other tracks do you expect to instruct at? I imagine the demand will be huge at Miller later in the season and you guys will all be booked solid for that event.

Also, incredibly, Tommy wasn't even booked at Sebring until ppl saw and heard what kind of results we were getting on the track, then I had to share him (lol). Go do your thing and ppl will line up.

PS-I see Tommy, Cindy and Neil have their pics on the "PRO Driving Experience" ad on the home page of NARRA. Better send in a mug shot!

See you at an event soon, maybe even MSR. Jim

 

[Dave Scott]

I live in Austin, Texas. I have committed to NARRA/Viper Days to be Chief Instructor & Chief Race Steward for their entire 2010 schedule starting with MSR, so I will be at all the tracks. Can't wait to go to VIR, Miller, TWS, Barber, etc! We have some awesome tracks this year!

Yeah, I guess I need to get a pic added to their web site. It's just that I ain't all that pretty.

 

[Boxer12]

Well, you can always do what I do, try to keep a hat and sunglasses on at all times!

What are your thoughts about MSR? Is it a good track to exploit with the ACR? (Edit-That's a dumb question, the ACR will exploit ANY track in the right hands...I need to quit asking myself..."Is this a good Viper track".)

 

[Dave Scott]

Hmmm... MSR is an excellent training/coaching/learning/racing track, IMO, in the 1.7 mile configuration we will be using. It is a relatively easy track to learn, and to get up to perhaps 80% speed is also relatively simple. But that last 20% is very, very challenging, in part because many of the corners are visually deceiving. However, it has fantastic all-grass runoff, very good curbing in most places, and phenomenal visibility. It will not test your Viper's top speed, but it will make you a MUCH better driver. IMO, if you can get very fast and smooth at MSR, you can be fast almost anywhere.

 

[FrankBarba]

My post wasn't meant solicite price quotes for either of these fine gentlemen. I was merely looking for an abstract comparison (just like Boxer 12 provided).

My apologies to one and all if I offended anyone

Steve A.

I'd like to see price quotes, on the posts, even if it offends others.

 

[NI-KA]

The first chance I maight get at NARRA this year will be April 17. How do you make the request for Tommy Archer to be your instructor?

 

[Boxer12]

The first chance I maight get at NARRA this year will be April 17. How do you make the request for Tommy Archer to be your instructor?

Call Archer Racing and talk to John, OR NARRA.

Archer Racing Accessories Duluth, MN (218) 727-4806
Viper Days by NARRA

 

[Boxer12]

Here's a vid of my final run at Sebring...
(skip ahead two min)
[media]http://www.vimeo.com/8828703[/media]

 

[Dave Scott]

Here's a vid of my final run at Sebring...
(skip ahead two min)
[media]http://www.vimeo.com/8828703[/media]

Not bad, not bad!!