Tranny ..I was wishing for F1 Paddel Style Shifter

[SnakeBitten]

I agree with these comments. Its evolution of the automobile, as long as there are choices so everyone can get the car the way they want it the Viper will be on more drivers radar. Change sometimes doesn't feel right or make sense, time will tell. Has there been this much debate/concerns/floggings/etc at every introduction of a new generation Viper?

Yep

Dom that also makes sense. I was thinking more PDK TT and forgot about the GT2. So the GTS = Porsche 911 Turbo, SRT Viper = GT2 while upcoming ACR = GT2 RS? Thats a hell of a lineup....

 

[PDCjonny]

Has there been this much debate/concerns/floggings/etc at every introduction of a new generation Viper?

Ten times worse when the Gen 3 came out.
This is nothing.

 

[mike & juli]

That I am.

And there is most certainly a difference between a wing and paddles. If you track you know it. But fear not, you will get your paddles soon enough.

Am I due for a spanking yet???
~juli

 

[98viperGTS]

I had paddle shifting in my Gallardo and it was cool but after 11K miles I had to have the clutch changed. This was in 2008 and I know a lot has changed but after that I wont get another flappy paddle until that is no longer the case. Has this been fixed in the newer cars? I know that most of the exotics never drive them or push them hard.

 

[kdaviper]

So the transmission in the GTS-R cost 30k directly from the supplier (read this somewhere, i can't remember exactly). This means that it would probably be a 60k option on the Viper if they were to offer it.
Not to mention, SRT already has enough problems finding suppliers to make parts for such a low-volume vehicle... if they were to offer too many options, they might not even be able to get the contracts they need just to make the car.

 

[TrackAire]

So the transmission in the GTS-R cost 30k directly from the supplier (read this somewhere, i can't remember exactly). This means that it would probably be a 60k option on the Viper if they were to offer it.
Not to mention, SRT already has enough problems finding suppliers to make parts for such a low-volume vehicle... if they were to offer too many options, they might not even be able to get the contracts they need just to make the car.

I haven't followed the GTS-R that closely, but I think it is a sequential transmission with paddles to control it. Can somebody confirm this? We've supplied equipment to make a sequential transmission a push button or paddle style using compressed air. Last car was a Ferrari but it's very popular with drag race bikes.

If it is a sequential shifter and costs $30k (about right, which is what one of the Corvette tuners charges for the Vette version), then if sold via a OEM the price would drop to under $15k just because of the volume (600 to 800 per year). I would think a DCT would be a better choice for the street, but a sequential might be better for an all our racing application.

Regarding finding parts suppliers for SRT, if they have any problem sourcing a part just contact me. Between the USA, Canada, Britain, Switzerland, Germany, Australia, South Africa, Taiwan and Korea it will be no problem. And now with Fiat on their side, nothing should be hard to get.

Some past suppliers might not want to do business with Chrysler if they got burned a few years ago or had to shut down, but the reality is there is always somebody out there to supply an OEM like Chrysler, even on small production runs.

I think the biggest problem will be designing a DCT that can handle the torque of a low rpm motor like the Viper runs. Most cars that run the DCT are fairly high rpm units which I feel is easier on the trans since it's moving the car using hp and not the torque.

Cheers,
George

 

[I Bin Therbefor]

I haven't followed the GTS-R that closely, but I think it is a sequential transmission with paddles to control it. Can somebody confirm this? We've supplied equipment to make a sequential transmission a push button or paddle style using compressed air. Last car was a Ferrari but it's very popular with drag race bikes.

If it is a sequential shifter and costs $30k (about right, which is what one of the Corvette tuners charges for the Vette version), then if sold via a OEM the price would drop to under $15k just because of the volume (600 to 800 per year). I would think a DCT would be a better choice for the street, but a sequential might be better for an all our racing application.

Regarding finding parts suppliers for SRT, if they have any problem sourcing a part just contact me. Between the USA, Canada, Britain, Switzerland, Germany, Australia, South Africa, Taiwan and Korea it will be no problem. And now with Fiat on their side, nothing should be hard to get.

Some past suppliers might not want to do business with Chrysler if they got burned a few years ago or had to shut down, but the reality is there is always somebody out there to supply an OEM like Chrysler, even on small production runs.

I think the biggest problem will be designing a DCT that can handle the torque of a low rpm motor like the Viper runs. Most cars that run the DCT are fairly high rpm units which I feel is easier on the trans since it's moving the car using hp and not the torque.

Cheers,
George

"Transmission is moved to the rear of the car and will be sourced from Xtrac." from driveSTR - 2013 Viper GTS-R The Snale is Back

 

[bushido]

I'm looking forward in seeing a dual clutch system in a Viper.

It will be cool to have both..

 

[kdaviper]

This is the only transmission I could find on Xtrac's site that can handle 600 lb-ft of torque.

http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/1007 - SUPERCAR TRANSVERSE SYNCHROMESH GEARBOX.pdf
nvm, this is a mid/rear engine gearbox.

The closest thing for RWD applications:
http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/437 IN LINE SEQUENTIAL SPORTSCAR GEARBOX.pdf

 

[viper067]

There is alot more than a second or two separating the average drivers from the best drivers all the time.
Your throttle inputs,
braking inputs,
steering inputs,
driving line,
are all far more important than you shifting ability. If you dont have the above stuff perfected then a fancy trans worth a sec on the track is not going to bring you anywhere near the level of the best drivers all the time.

For the average driver a session with an instructor will make them much faster than a fancy transmission ever will.

+1. Being the average to slightly above average driver ( on track), I can certainly say I have a lot more to learn from car control that can greatly impact my time vs a paddle shifter that would not really help my level that much. There are not many experiences that compare to running a track in a Gen 1.

As for Chuck, I mostly agree with him. I hate the government requiring all this stuff, it jacks up the cost and complexity of cars. I don't mind it in the car, but would like it to be optional ... Not in a turn it off sense.

 

[Vypr Phil]

I had paddle shifting in my Gallardo and it was cool but after 11K miles I had to have the clutch changed. This was in 2008 and I know a lot has changed but after that I wont get another flappy paddle until that is no longer the case. Has this been fixed in the newer cars? I know that most of the exotics never drive them or push them hard.

The Gallardo has a single clutch automated manual transmission. Lambo clutches are known for not lasting for very long.
When talking about paddle shifters, most people do not know what type of transmission is actually being used.

"Transmission is moved to the rear of the car and will be sourced from Xtrac." from driveSTR - 2013 Viper GTS-R The Snale is Back

If this is the case, maybe they will source it from Mercedes/AMG since this is also the set-up in the SLS. Maybe Xtrac has such a unit under development at this time and this could explain why it is not available on the Gen V yet. Nice thing about this powertrain architecture: it moves more weight to the rear.

This is the only transmission I could find on Xtrac's site that can handle 600 lb-ft of torque.

http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/1007 - SUPERCAR TRANSVERSE SYNCHROMESH GEARBOX.pdf
nvm, this is a mid/rear engine gearbox.

The closest thing for RWD applications:
http://www.xtrac.com/pdfs/437 IN LINE SEQUENTIAL SPORTSCAR GEARBOX.pdf

I looked at these; neither is a dual clutch transmission.

 

[Fatboy 18]

Have used a paddle shift. Don't like it. On the other hand a sequential box with back up and forward down shift would be nice. Paddle seems un-natural.

Just reading through this thread and was thinking EXACTLY the same thing Having been in a GTS with a Sequential gearbox, I would love one, no more worrying if I was in the correct gear when lifting the clutch pedal!

These are rated to 750hp! It would need to loose the big white knob on the end of the shifter, Im sure George at MGW could rustle something up

http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qbe33g-0

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

As for Chuck, I mostly agree with him. I hate the government requiring all this stuff, it jacks up the cost and complexity of cars. I don't mind it in the car, but would like it to be optional ... Not in a turn it off sense.

That is the biggest disappointment on this forum, they don't seem to mind the government dictating what they can and can't have. If the government demanded all cars be no bigger than a one liter four cylinder, 2/3 here would go along with it calling it evolution and technological advancement.

 

[LifeIsGood]

Chuck...it's about the trees...they're our future...we've got to save the trees!

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

Chuck...it's about the trees...they're our future...we've got to save the trees!

Are you sure about that? I thought it was the children. We must save the children. The children they are our future. The children. After all, that's why millions of cars will be required to have backup cameras in 2014. 100 children a year get backed over in driveways and the only way to stop that is for millions and millions and millions of cars to have backup cameras.

 

[jcaspar1]

I'm all for an automatic paddle shifter it if it is a 30,000$ option and only available in pink so we clearly know who can't drive stick.....

 

[garetjax1]

After owning a BMW m3 with flappy paddles I can honestly say that, while the seamless shifts were really nice, I felt the overall driving experience to be somewhat dull... I got rid of the car 3 months after buying it. While I think paddles are an inevitable stepping-stone in the evolution of the Viper, the brand has always represented (to me, at least) the requirement that there be car and driver synergy - otherwise you got bit. GTRs, 911TTs, m3s - they make heroes out of everyday drivers. I see a guy driving a viper, and it appeals to the purist in me. While all of the gadgetry is somewhat inevitable, I suppose, I do like that everything being introduced in Gen V is defeatable.

 

[pingi3]

I wonder how many here posting have ever driven a sports car with paddles? I have met many guys who preached that a true sports car has to be manual but then when they get the ability to afford a car with the paddles they convert and say paddles are much better. I have owned a manual 360 spyder and a 600 rwhp GTS but after driving a 458 and FF with paddles, I prefer the paddles. But option to purchase your posion is lways the best from a manufacturer. I wonder hopw many would say yes to paddles if the price was the same for either option

 

[MTGTS]

I wonder how many here posting have ever driven a sports car with paddles? I have met many guys who preached that a true sports car has to be manual but then when they get the ability to afford a car with the paddles they convert and say paddles are much better. I have owned a manual 360 spyder and a 600 rwhp GTS but after driving a 458 and FF with paddles, I prefer the paddles. But option to purchase your posion is lways the best from a manufacturer. I wonder hopw many would say yes to paddles if the price was the same for either option

You lost all credibility by even sitting in an FF.

 

[LifeIsGood]

I wonder hopw many would say yes to paddles if the price was the same for either option

NO. Definitely...

 

[KenricGTS]

Dual clutch is just faster plain and simple. Why not have an option? Stick, for those that want it, and dual clutch for those that want it. Every one wins.

 

[pingi3]

You lost all credibility by even sitting in an FF.

Hey when Ferrari invites you to a exclusive test drive of a new model catered with free food and DP served by ladies all 6' tall in heels, you would go to my friend

 

[2000_Black_RT10]

I'm all for an automatic paddle shifter it if it is a 30,000$ option and only available in pink so we clearly know who can't drive stick.....

Way before the C6 came out.... I installed paddle shifters on my wife's C5 Corvette... didn't cost much.. but she didn't think it was that funny...

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[MTGTS]

Hey when Ferrari invites you to a exclusive test drive of a new model catered with free food and DP served by ladies all 6' tall in heels, you would go to my
friend

I went to that party, still didn't get in the car.

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

Have to make a comment , as the one item that seems to have been overlooked, even after VyprPhil brought it up, is physical limitations. The issue about an automatic, dual clutch, sequential gearbox, etc. being in a Viper frankly from this Dealers standpoint has not been one about speed at the track, etc. it has been one of limitations due to age or physical disabilities. We have had numerous veterans who have wanted to get a Viper, but due to amputations their wish to own their dream car was not feasible. The most common customer wanting a dual clutch or paddle shifted car is a Viper owner who often due to age or health issues can no longer drive a stick. Whether it is bad knees , a foot/ankle surgery like VyprPhil, or an amputation, I feel empathy for the consumer that wants a Viper but can not acquire one due to this lack of said option. It is somewhat apparent that the bulk of owners will still want manual transmissions , but there is a market there for an alternative, and it is not always for the reasons listed by so many, so far. There is a very significant market based more on passion and desire to continue to drive this car, but inability due to life's circumstances. My family has had a somewhat checkered history with knee problems and so far mine have not gotten too bad. I prefer a manual over an automatic anyday, but I sure would regret the day, when later in life or due to surgery, I would have to just stare at my Viper in the garage ,because I could not depress the clutch.

The passion does not go away when life deals one a dramatic change in health or disability, and with specific customers in mind that I know want a new Viper, but can no longer drive the ones they have, it is an issue that Vyprphil brought up , that seemed to get passed over -- yet, it is the number one reason at our Dealership that folks have asked about a automatic/paddleshifter/dual clutch Viper. Nuff said.

 

[eagles]

Bill, Thanks for bringing common sense and compassion to the discussion. So many of us here are so intensely single minded that we only think of ourselves.

eagles

 

[pingi3]

I went to that party, still didn't get in the car.

What time slot did you have? Did you notice the girl out front at valet

 

[LifeIsGood]

...and then there's the reality that when we get old, stuff starts breaking...you have to come to grips with it...life's not fair. As far as physical disabilities go...same thing...the best way to handle them is to just move on and do the things that you still can that you enjoy and don't sweat the stuff that you can't. I'm getting used to 'not doing' a number of things that I used to be able to do. It *****, but it is what it is...

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

I wanna play basketball. But I'm 51 and among the usual aches and pains of a 51-year-old I've got a knife wound in my back and I'm missing ACLs in both knees. If I tried to dunk a basketball I'd end up a basket case. Basketball hoops should be lowered to 6 feet so I can play basketball.

 

[Vypr Phil]

Have to make a comment , as the one item that seems to have been overlooked, even after VyprPhil brought it up, is physical limitations. The issue about an automatic, dual clutch, sequential gearbox, etc. being in a Viper frankly from this Dealers standpoint has not been one about speed at the track, etc. it has been one of limitations due to age or physical disabilities. We have had numerous veterans who have wanted to get a Viper, but due to amputations their wish to own their dream car was not feasible. The most common customer wanting a dual clutch or paddle shifted car is a Viper owner who often due to age or health issues can no longer drive a stick. Whether it is bad knees , a foot/ankle surgery like VyprPhil, or an amputation, I feel empathy for the consumer that wants a Viper but can not acquire one due to this lack of said option. It is somewhat apparent that the bulk of owners will still want manual transmissions , but there is a market there for an alternative, and it is not always for the reasons listed by so many, so far. There is a very significant market based more on passion and desire to continue to drive this car, but inability due to life's circumstances. My family has had a somewhat checkered history with knee problems and so far mine have not gotten too bad. I prefer a manual over an automatic anyday, but I sure would regret the day, when later in life or due to surgery, I would have to just stare at my Viper in the garage ,because I could not depress the clutch.

The passion does not go away when life deals one a dramatic change in health or disability, and with specific customers in mind that I know want a new Viper, but can no longer drive the ones they have, it is an issue that Vyprphil brought up , that seemed to get passed over -- yet, it is the number one reason at our Dealership that folks have asked about a automatic/paddleshifter/dual clutch Viper. Nuff said.

Thank you Bill for offering your take from a sales perspective. I know that I am not only one who does not want to give up Vipers when a logical alternative can be developed to stay in the "Viper Nation"; besides it might lead to some conquest sales as well.