Update on my head gaskets replacement at my Dodge dealership..

[AAKVIPER]

I stopped by the dealership this afternoon and inspected the motor with the heads off.
I then chatted with the Viper tech and told me he did not find no other problems.
While I was there, I examinationed the old removed gaskets and they were compromised. The coolant cut out area was cracked in four spots, and the oil galley area on # 4 cylinder looked suspect with some hairline cracks starting to appear. Only 8,500 miles on the motor.

I requested to the tech to add a new OEM thermostat and gasket set for good measure. He also started to extract the spark plugs insuring I have no cross threading and he will add some thread oil compound so when I will change the plugs years from now, all will go well.

So far all is on schedule. But I must add, all the Gen 1-2 Viper owners, this head gasket problem is a real issue. Warning to the wise..get them done. No matter what mileage you have on your Gen 1-2. I was shocked at what I found when I inspected them

Dodge dropped the ball on this component, this issue should have never had happened if they did their research correctly.

I will keep you posted, Arthur

http://forums.viperclub.org/threads...-gen-1-and-2-owners..Buhler-and-the-Cometric-

 

[bluesrt]

thats what you get when you play with mitzubishi people..........

 

[ViperTony]

The paper head gasket issue affects Gen1 Vipers and 96 RT/10's only according to the Wizard.

 

[plumcrazy]

Yup, gen 1 issue mainly

 

[AAKVIPER]

Apparently checking with this particular dealer, Gen 2 head gasket were an issue...

They have serviced a few Gen 2's head gaskets over the years as well. The irony is that they sold these Gen 2's to the same customers who brought them back for head gasket replacement.

I inquired as to how they detected this problem on the Gen 2 's?

The service manager Ken told me problems were spotted when a customer's Gen 1 or 2's came in for oil changes, brake jobs, and other routine maintenance. Issues were such as coolant leakage from bottom head bolts, or head to block joint areas and the prevalent smell of coolant. This makes sense since I read somewhere that the Gen 2 gaskets were better in design then the Gen 1's but still had issues. I realize that Dodge changed the gasket material after 1995, but apparently the issue resurfaced on some of the Gen 2's as well. I guess with the Gen 2's a periodical look see under the car would not be a bad thing to do.

Arthur

 

[plumcrazy]

dont think i ever heard of bad head gaskets on a gen2 (other than from boost). wonder if it was a bad diagnosis....

 

[ViperTony]

dont think i ever heard of bad head gaskets on a gen2 (other than from boost). wonder if it was a bad diagnosis....

I learned this two weeks ago from Tator. The "Gen2" gasket issue is with the 96 RT/10's because they were still Gen1's, actually Gen1.5's. The 96 GTS were the first to use non-paper gaskets.

 

[plumcrazy]

thats like a gen 1.5 but you are correct.

 

[AAKVIPER]

That would explain why some Gen 2's had this issue..

Just one notion, I believe the simplistic nature of the Gen 1 and 2 is a bonus to us owners.

So the early Vipers can be seem unrefined to many people, but the vehicle for the most part can be serviced by us. As with my 5.0 Mustang, I can do all the work to keep it right. I have replaced the head gaskets myself... twice in fact due to supercharger. But the Viper with aluminum block and heads..not suggested for a first timer.

I have worked with race friends on Porsche Turbo's, Ferraris, and even gave a hand to my Lambo friends. These cars are a pain to fiddle with. Very tight areas to work in, and most tools are specialized for each models.

We have it made as far maintenance is concerned. Vipers especially the early cars except head gasket service( a little daunting at least for me), can be worked on by most owners. I look at the Viper as a service friendly exotic car.

Arthur

 

[AAKVIPER]

The Cometic part # for head gaskets replacement at my Dodge dealership.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[AAKVIPER]

Dodge dealership did an amazing job on my head gaskets replacement.. pictures blow

Anyone in New jersey with a Viper and needs this job done..email me...I can help you out..The dealer did an awesome job..

Arthur

OLD stock gasket

You must be registered for see images attach

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[SNKEBIT]

LOL Those gaskets are mint compared to some I've removed. Never had a gen.2 w/ MLS gaskets leak, ever. Timing cover, that's a different story.

 

[AAKVIPER]

I understand..but I had to get them done...upon a closer inspection..one can see why.

I still am still in shock at the lack of research and R@D with this head gasket issue for the Gen 1 and 2.
Well it had to be done..and now I can just enjoy the car..

Art

 

[JonB]

AAK, Thank you for the details you did provide....but you keep stating that Gen 2 is affected. Not So. AAAK! [I hope I did not confuse you..]

And in Gen 1 there were 2 issues: Cylinder Liner creep, and gasket integrity. The 1996 RT10 did not have the liner issue, but did have the inferior gaskets. So a 1996 RT10 MAY NOT FAIL AS SOON...but is may be a weak link in the 1996 RT10 motor integrity long term.

 

[Paul Hawker]

No shock needed.

Lots of research done by Dodge on these early motors. Lamborgini was first called in due to their expertise with aluminum castings, but they were not deemed up to ***** for Dodge badged cars.

You must realize that this was the first large 10 cyl engine produced for the Viper, or any american car. Using cast aluminum with steel pressed in inserts was a whole new ball game, and it turned out pretty well with lots of 100k mile gen 1's. These cars took a lickin' and kept on tickin'. They got pretty remarkable fuel economy for a 400 hp engine, especially at highway cruising speeds.

Lots of these engines were mercyless beat on at local road courses, solom events, and drag strips. Lots and lots of Nitrous Oxide was pumped with these engines with fantastic results.

The paper gaskets turned out to be a weak link, along with cyl liners that tended to creap up just a bit, but overall, for a brand new engine, designed on a severly limited budget, the engine was a huge success.

Most had gaskets replaced with improved material under warranty. You need to remember some of these engines are now nearly 20 years old.

Gen II brought a entire new engine, with lots of lessons learned along the way.

 

[V10 PWRD]

I'm sure we're all curious so I'll be the one to outright ask the proverbial "what did the dealer charge?" I got a quote from a couple of dealers for just a shade under $2000.00. That just included the head gaskets and all other gaskets needed. Nothing else. A group of us got together and did mine which included new AB wires, plugs, and thermostat for a parts price including MLS headgaskets for under $600.00. Your headgaskets looked brand new compared to mine. I hope you went with AB wires. Other than the headgaskets the wires were my biggest expense and those were my choice. Without buying the AB's the job ran a little more than $450.00. Again, a big thanks to jdeft1 and Blake for taking on this task with me. There have been no issues since we did this job.
Good luck and safe motoring.

 

[jdeft1]

^ Glad you're still happy with the job... and yeah, Blake was a huge help and got us finished in one day. I've done a few now and each have been straight forward and trouble-free.

BTW, the guy near me said 3 grand back in '02-03??.... but that may have included wires, plugs etc... ?... I can't remember. I decided DIY was the best option; still is.

=J

 

[AAKVIPER]

JonB thanks for the info, help and parts...

With all the parts including new wires and plugs the bill was 3 K.
But the quality of work was in my opinion very professional and well done. They even gave me all my old parts back.
Buhler Dodge, one has to remember in NJ is the biggest Viper dealer we have in our state. So they are familiar with the Viper product from years of customer service.

Arthur

 

[ViperTony]

Re: JonB thanks for the info, help and parts...

I received an estimate of $3K for head gasket replacement on a '96 RT/10. But it also included replacing the water pump, thermostat, radiator hoses, etc. since we'd be already in there and for good measure. Viper Specialty sells a custom Cometic head gasket that allows lifter removal without having to remove the heads. I used these on my GenII when I did my creampuff build last year. It was money well spent. Not sure if Dan has them for the Gen1 but worth looking into for future reference.

 

[Viper Specialty]

Re: JonB thanks for the info, help and parts...

Viper Specialty sells a custom Cometic head gasket that allows lifter removal without having to remove the heads. I used these on my GenII when I did my creampuff build last year. It was money well spent. Not sure if Dan has them for the Gen1 but worth looking into for future reference.

-Estimates in the 3K range are not out of the ordinary. One thing many folks dont take into account is the HUNDREDS of dollars difference in gaskets alone if you start changing valve cover and oil pan gaskets. These are another aged item by now, and the oil pan gasket has gone through a redesign as well. The 3 gaskets alone are over 400 bucks. If you are the rare exception and dont need them, 2K is a reasonable estimate, assuming there is NOTHING out of the ordinary or extra being done. Otherwise, 3K is a more reasonable expectation of what to pay if changing/upgrading all of the upper gaskets and oil pan gasket, as well as any other "aged" items you may find along the way. You can also creep to 4K, if including a full service on the car from front to back at the same time- which is not a bad idea at all. Many Gen-1s are LOADED with old fluid fills.

-While we do deal with the Gen-1 head gaskets [we brought them to market for you guys after all] we DO NOT offer a "lifter modified" version of them like we do Gen-2/3/4. The reason is that since the Gen-1 Heads themselves prevent lifter removal, the gaskets become a moot point. The Gen-2/3/4 heads have an open area around the port castings & pushrods, while the Gen-1 heads have a hole drilled for the pushrod, and are otherwise a solid casting. The lifter will not come close to fitting through this hole, let alone getting the dogbones off in the first place.

 

[viper spray]

Gen I only has the gasket issue , lol on paying 3K for tho.........

 

[v10enomous]

What's the difference between the 400hp motor and the 415hp motor ?

 

[Mopar Steve]

What's the difference between the 400hp motor and the 415hp motor ?

K/N & Tubes?

 

[JonB]

What's the difference between the 400hp motor and the 415hp motor ?

15 HP came from

-- REAR EXHAUST is less restrictive on a G1 motor.
-- Anti-Reverb cannister, called 'the sausage' at Team Viper, on intake deleted in 1996 RT.