ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
Rick, I didn't create the map, it was created by someone else who has been tracking regional decisions. I actually don't know what the non-US regions have decided or I would add them.
VCA Drama: what are the known facts?
- Thread starter Free2go
- Start date
Rick, I didn't create the map, it was created by someone else who has been tracking regional decisions. I actually don't know what the non-US regions have decided or I would add them.
You two might remember, but most of the newer members
have no idea that ten years ago "80% of the membership"
decided to take their money and leave the VCA forever -
thus forming the Alley. Ten years later I still see a long list
of those guys on the rooster as paid-in-full members and
a *ahem* "Better" competitive club still sulking in the
shadows.
Theres a not-so-blurry line between saying and doing so
forgive me for not holding my breath until January. I will
still be here, right or wrong I will let you know how it turns
out.
Now as a solution, I do not understand how the
"troublemakers" simply retain authority. What would stop us
from (for example) forming an indepentent task force of 4 or
5 people to simply take over duties while the by-laws are...
rebooted? I mean its not like the National Guard is going to
blockade ViperHQ to keep the officers in power or anything...
Last edited:
Fair enough George, I did not know who's map it was. My point is the VCA if also European and other regions too. It is important that if an analysis is being made like this map that the all regions are on there. In the end I guess the map just shows the vastness of the issue and dis-satisfaction.
You are missing the fact that the money sent to the Regions is sent to them as VCA Regions to be spent onVCA club related activities. Or, by analogy, VCA franchisees. As for VPA, it is owned 100% by the VCA, an entity separate from the Regions. The Regional entities have no equity in the VCA of any kind and do not own any part of the VCA. Neither do the members. The assets of the VCA, if it ever is dissolved, do not go to the members. Article XI, Section 1 of the Bylaws very clearly states:
In the event of the dissolution of the VCA, after satisfying its debts, all of its income, property and assets shall be distributed to such non-profit charitable, scientiofic, educational or municipal corporation or corporations as may be selected by its Board of Directors at a regular or special meeting called for that purpose. In the event of the dissolution, in no way shall any assets or the property of this corporation or the proceeds of any assets or property be distributed to its members.
The above is standard language for a non profit corporation's Bylaws. I would guess that some of the Regions may need to revisit their Bylaws to ensure their proper compliance with applicable state non profit law.
In the event of the dissolution of the VCA, after satisfying its debts, all of its income, property and assets shall be distributed to such non-profit charitable, scientiofic, educational or municipal corporation or corporations as may be selected by its Board of Directors at a regular or special meeting called for that purpose. In the event of the dissolution, in no way shall any assets or the property of this corporation or the proceeds of any assets or property be distributed to its members.
The above is standard language for a non profit corporation's Bylaws. I would guess that some of the Regions may need to revisit their Bylaws to ensure their proper compliance with applicable state non profit law.
The map is not accurate. My undertanding is that the Central and Northern Florida Region people are staying with the VCA except for a few members who have chosen to go with the new club. The South Florida club is still deciding. You are right that it would be useful to get some sort of update that is current and objective. But, as someone else posted, the dues amount is small and we will have to wait until we see how many actually pay their dues to the VCA to see what really happened here.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
Bob, re-read my post. The bylaws do not allow or stipulate that any monies sent to the regions need to be repaid for any reason. This money now belongs to the Regions, period. I agree with what you said about Article XI and if you read my post again you will see that I said while some regions or members might try to sue over this I doubt their success.
The map is not accurate. It does not show the Middle Florida chapter as staying. It also incorrectly shows the South Florida chapter as having agreed to join the VOA when it has not done so. Dave is currently polling all the members to determine what should be done. Maybe the South Florida people will form a new club chapter or maybe they will not or maybe we will have both populated with the same people. We will see. In any event, if there are these errors on that chart, I am sure that there must be more. As Trackaire so astutely said, there will probably be another club. So what? There are multiple Camero clubs, Mustang clubs, Vette clubs, etc. There is more than enough money and interest to go around. Hopefully when all the emotion dies down, all the pro Viper clubs will work together to further the Viper and its enjoyment as opposed to any ambition for power of each club's respective leaders.
MoparBoyy
Enthusiast
are you blind? it clearly states that Central FL has agreed to stay with VCA.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
I think you might want to have your eyes checked. The map shows that there are elements in Central Florida that are leaving the VCA to form their own VOA region. It does not say that Central Florida is leaving the VCA. That is what is meant by the star. As for South Florida, I can't say. Virtually every other region I would wager is correct. I know folks in many of them including their regional presidents, they're gone.
We will see. BTW, did you get the PM I sent to you? I am ineterested in your take on the issue from the public company point of view. Especially in view of the committes that you sit on.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
I did receive your PM and responded to it as soon as I received it. My response shows up in my sent folder. Did you check your inbox recently?
TrackAire
Enthusiast
Bob,
Since talk of the new club was announced, I've been wondering what the actual "worth" of the VCA is? If we take the VPA out of the picture completely (I honestly cannot say if it is making the VCA money or costing the VCA money since I have not seen financials or heard any figures from Chris Marshall on how much the VPA put towards the VCA coffers). Please Chris, don't chime in with how many gifts you've given different regions for raffles, etc....only question here is real dollars and cents. And since we'll never know what income the VPA has produced in the last 2 years, the VPA is a moot point....so in my mind, I've already written it off.
So, with the VPA out to the picture, the only real value the VCA has is its bank account (hopefully positive), goodwill and this website. Of those three options, the only thing I would care about is the information (past archives) of what is on this forum. It has a lot of info and value for Viper owners. Do you see any other value or worth that the VCA has besides those three things? Does the VCA own any specific fixed assets (computers, furniture, promotional inventory, etc) that has value? If the bank account is non-existent and the VCA was to fold, I really don't see what can be donated to another non profit except for this website. Any thoughts on that?
George
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
PM has been resent.
That's more than the North/Central Florida members got. I find it hugely hypocritical that the president and DAL of this region is been speaking of all the change that is ongoing with the VCA but she didn't even take a vote of the members in her own region. I thought things were changing and members were going to have a voice? Sounds like more of the same old VCA to me. Couple people making decisions for everyone without asking everyone else their opinion.
The VCA owns 100% of VPA and, therefore, all of VPA's assets. I have no idea what those assets are worth but the historical assets including molds, dies, etc for the Gen I and II and possibly more have great value to the club going forward. Don't forget that this site includes ***. Those had, and have, a clear expectation of privacy attached to them and if the site was ever to be sold or disposed of to a third party, people should have the right to purge them before any transfer is made. I have no idea how easy or not easy that is to do. Perhaps you and Chorps know same.
I see your point but I think that most of the Regions on the map that decided to join the new club or leave the VCA did so by Board action without taking a vote.
I know that that is what the MVCO did despite the fact that I believe that the provisions of its Bylaws, when viewed in their totality, created an implied right to vote on seceding from the VCA. I am not suggesting the result would not have been the same. What I am suggesting is that it is ironic that many Regions who said that they were upest with the old Board's non democratic nature ended up using a nondemocratic procedure when they determined that their members should leave the VCA. Sort of sad and disappointing.
I know that that is what the MVCO did despite the fact that I believe that the provisions of its Bylaws, when viewed in their totality, created an implied right to vote on seceding from the VCA. I am not suggesting the result would not have been the same. What I am suggesting is that it is ironic that many Regions who said that they were upest with the old Board's non democratic nature ended up using a nondemocratic procedure when they determined that their members should leave the VCA. Sort of sad and disappointing.
MoparBoyy
Enthusiast
Not sure what clubs you are referring to as most clubs I've heard of are polling their full membership (via email). Of course all are not replying but they were actually given the chance.
08viperviolet
Enthusiast
The fact is everyone can join what ever club they like. No one is being forced. Vca is a sinking ship that will not be fixed anytime soon. Members want a car club not all that has happened and still continues.
Was there a calm, reasonable presentation of the pros and cons before votes were solicited which could have been done by two statements presenting both positions being sent out to each of the respective memberships by email? Was voting done anonymously so no one felt intimidated by worrying about someone knowing that he or she might not hold the same view? There is a reason for secret ballots. The speed at which so many alleged Regions took a position strongly suggests that the process that was used to decide was far less than democratic and far more like the way the old National Board, that so many people say they did not like, acted. It sure looks like the SOS to me.
speedracervr4
Enthusiast
GA VCA hasn't sent any info on the current status of the VCA or VOA vote. Not that I care because I'm moving to PA and I probably won't be active in either club considering I'll be working weekends.
Fatboy 18
Enthusiast
Regarding the Europe situation, the UK section has elected to move to the VOA.
We have been emailed by our Elected pres. and directed to the forums for us to make our minds up on which way we would like to go with no influence from the Pres. Finally we had an email from the New VOA stating their intentions. More emails were then exchanged with current UK members,
No objections (to my knowledge) were received from UK members so we have decided to move to the VOA next year.
We are only a small group of people here, but I have been saddened to read of all the alleged goings on at the top of the VCA.
I like to think I have made some great friends here and although I have never met any of you, I hope we will continue to communicate in the new club?
Mark UK
We have been emailed by our Elected pres. and directed to the forums for us to make our minds up on which way we would like to go with no influence from the Pres. Finally we had an email from the New VOA stating their intentions. More emails were then exchanged with current UK members,
No objections (to my knowledge) were received from UK members so we have decided to move to the VOA next year.
We are only a small group of people here, but I have been saddened to read of all the alleged goings on at the top of the VCA.
I like to think I have made some great friends here and although I have never met any of you, I hope we will continue to communicate in the new club?
Mark UK
Bob, yes at least in CO/WY/UT region is was done calmly and with full disclosure to us with no swaying before it took to a vote with at least the overwhelming majority of members of the region. Was unanimous as to leave. In fact for your viewing pleasure, your personal actions here and twisting deceit was brought up by a few members during that session which was surprising as they do not do much with the club for events but apparently frequent the forums. Who knew? Your (and a few other screen names) conduct and overpowering approach to do nothing but distort and twist actually was additional one of the turn-offs those individuals had and voiced to the group during that session. So I guess the new club should thank you as you helped as much as the aforementioned execs for people to make their mind up to walk out the door with your actions, attitude and approach. I am undecided on what I will do come January but maybe you should take a long look at how you conduct yourself see if you are really helping the VCA? I have my own personal views on you but they are mine.
Bob, sorry to tell you that it doesn't matter if you personally approve of the means in which regions conducted their voting. I know you think your opinion matters more than others and that you are always right......about everything but the simple fact is your opinion is meaningless except in your own region where you get 1 vote. Just like everyone else (unless you are in Central and North FL where their was no discussion apparently and the decision was made for you).
The speed in which a lot of this has happened probably has to do with Chrysler getting involved and 1/2 of the National Officers and some ***'s being suspended on a whim. I'm sure the multiple letters to Ralphs boss didn't help or the fact the club is still playing the person that attacked Ralph with one of those letters. You don't have to have debates and presentations when there are glaring issues. The majority of the membership can see these issues and have decided that they no longer want to be apart of the club due to these issues.
AZTVR
Enthusiast
In my region, yes.
In my region, I would say, yes and no. Voting was by email and the results visible to the President, but not public to other members, such as a raised hand situation in a meeting room as would not be uncommon in some voting situations; which is fine by me. There is no moral or legal rules on voting in a social club, I think, and there is no "drama" in my region. I believe that we are adult enough to respect each others opinions.
I do understand your point, Bob. I can see that because of your posts, there are those here and at the VA that have displayed juvenile, junior high school mentality, about what they interpret your feelings are on the subject. They can not stand that there is an intelligent person with a different viewpoint without resulting to cutesy name calling and insults. However, this is how many so-called intelligent, successful business men act when talking politics, so, really no surprise.
ViperGeorge
Enthusiast
New England members also voted after receiving Dan's letter and a letter from VOA. The President was neutral in his presentation. Voting of the membership was conducted via a web service and it was annonymous. The motion to leave the VCA and join VOA was carried by close to 90% of those voting.
Last edited:
Thank you GB. It's good to read that such a procedure was utilized. This thread is about trying to get the known facts and it helps to know what procedures were used among those who have indicated that they are leaving the VCA.
I also thank the other people above who posted the procedure used in their Regions.
As for the personal attacks, I defer to AZTVR's comment in the last paragraph of post number 326 above.
I also thank the other people above who posted the procedure used in their Regions.
As for the personal attacks, I defer to AZTVR's comment in the last paragraph of post number 326 above.
Like the personal attack you took against moparboyy and his employer publicly? And you insinuated that he is not the the type of employee that they want to have?
Kind of like what john b said, right?
Don't bother looking it up, it was deleted.
Actually it was another poster that pointed out his employment and was very upset with him. I then followed up. I was surprised at the data. My post was deleted. It was wrong to have followed up and I apologize to Moparboyy. My post did not attack his employer. It did suggest that someone in his position, which the other poster mentioned, might consider the potential impact of his posts on another function of his employer. Take care.
Last edited:
Similar threads
