VCA Drama: what are the known facts?

[Gustfront]

They have offered to step away from everything if it would help the club. We are alredy shopping club management. We need to have transition plans in place, you can't just get rid of people and expect things to keep going. Interestingly enough, even the opposion has nothing bad to say about Mary and what a great job she has done running the club. I have also only heard positive experiences from the VA/MD members regarding their VPA experiences. Given the short amount of time (two weeks) we have been working at modifying/changing the club, we have been focusing on by law revisions getting a handle of current financial status and also figuring out what happened before our time that has lead us to where we are now.

I agree that a conflict of interests exists, we are working at resovling. I can only draw from my experience as a regional president. Getting people to step forward and help is difficult. Who will run VPA, who will run magazine and finally who will run the club? I don't know what events transpired years ago that got us where we are now, but I don't think these moves were made in the dark either.

Thank you for the answers ViperJohn.
It's the language of "they have offered to step away" that is continuing to hurt this club imo. They should be TOLD to step away. And, from what I gather, it's a little too late to be saying "if it will help the club". The club is in the position it is in due to the actions and/or lack of action by these people. They had the chance to "help the club". They blew it.

Wade

 

[TrackAire]

Wow. I'm more confused now then when I started this thread. New ***, new bylaws, reinstated members...that's a great start. I think it's important not to throw the baby out with the bath water here. The VCA is a great site. People screwed up. Some of the truth came out. THIS SITE....THIS FORUM....THE VIPER...THE MEMBERS...are the VCA. Not a couple of tools who put their hand deep into the cookie jar. They are gone. Club is moving forward.

You need to look a little deeper into the cookie jar.....

George

 

[Brian GTS]

Thank you for the answers ViperJohn.
It's the language of "they have offered to step away" that is continuing to hurt this club imo. They should be TOLD to step away. And, from what I gather, it's a little too late to be saying "if it will help the club". The club is in the position it is in due to the actions and/or lack of action by these people. They had the chance to "help the club". They blew it.

Wade

EXACTLY!!! Thank you.

 

[Coloviper]

I believe the solution to move forth and regain trust from members is very, very simple. Members are willing to tolerate the time it takes to make the conveyed VCA changes to the bylaws, elections, forum de-censorship levels, etc. HOWEVER there are three (3) things that must happen immediately without question or rebut:

1. The contract with Tim and the warehouse sublease needs to be immediately terminated and new space must be found. A detailed analysis of the equipment we have from Chrysler needs to be made. The reality is a lot of that equipment is obsolete and while cool to have the original press for the hoods, etc. no one manufactures like that anymore. The programming software cannot be maintained and again the quality of what was produced did not yield high QC. We may be paying to store a boat anchor with some of this stuff. Some of it should probably go to the scrap heap. The damage the actions of the Leaser, with the Chrysler issues is grounds enough to terminate regardless of a good deal or not. There is principle and a sense of what is right to abide by. The actions cannot be tolerated. If an outright sale of VPA is determined to be best for the club, then that is where the club goes.
2. The Raffle questions must be answered no matter what the issue is. If the VCA ever wants to hold another successful raffle, the trust must be earned back from the members. No one is going to plunk down money and at the levels of past raffles with these improprieties and issues hanging out there. The questions are simple and need to be answered regardless. This is a club for the people hence there is zero reason to hide it from the VCA members. Either way, the outcome and answers affect everyone in the group.
3. The contracts for Chris (management of VPA), Mary (management of C2C) and their son (management of Viper Magazine) need to be immediately terminated and new temporary leadership installed until a formal RFP/RFQ process can be adhered to. I am sorry but in the real world of private business (non-government) there is no way a company can operate without financial responsibility and results. It is inexcusable to not provide VPA financials when asked. If they use post-it notes for tracking, so be it, there is still a tracking system, they get a few weeks to collect their thoughts and respond with detail, but that has not been happening. This has not been provided. That is a red flag there. As a result all trust is lost and the vast majority of the members have spoken. He must be removed immediately regardless of the effect to the day to day business. It is a transition plain and simple. This must happen regardless of what was done in the past. Plenty of CEOs get ram-roded because of actions of people on their staff. This is life. C2C has been okay but there is no way the club should be put in a position of having to overpay for VOI12 services at the last minute with zero backing documentation with a take it or leave it situation. Again that can not be tolerated. The Viper Magazine should be a stand-alone situation but unfortunately it appears not to be anymore. Any editor that has missed as many magazines and deadlines of this year as has been taking place would be fired and walked out the building regardless of their personality. This cannot be tolerated. Again the vast majority of club members have spoken. There is no chose, the VCA must do this now, just like in any business in the real world. It happens! Never fun to fire people but if you run a business it happens. Once attitude and trust go, there can be no further relationship as an employee/employer. There just can not!

Yes some of these people are nice and I have met some of these people. However, like in my business that only goes so far if results are not forthcoming and trust is lacking if people are not providing answers to their management. This is business!

While on moderation the past while, I reflected. These three (3) items are paramount and there is no getting around them. Earning back the trust is crucial to survival both from VCA members and Chrysler. Deal with these three (3) things with 100% transparency and watch the vast majority of the issues, hatred and distrust start to melt away. Club can move forth at that point.

 

[TowDawg]

Great post Colo!

 

[HyperViper]

Exactly what is needed. For the current Officers and *** to ignore is unfathomable. There must be some huge skeletons in the closet that would only serve to accelerate the demise.

 

[Brian GTS]

You got it Colo....100%.

 

[Camfab]

So here's the thing, for less than two frickin Benjamin's I got to meet the heads of Chrysler, talk to engineers, race around world famous tracks. I've met a bunch of great car enthusiasts and made some great friends, etc. and it's all being destroyed by people that are obviously not interested in the car itself. It's all about politics, and I can't stand everyone of you. I enjoyed what I got out of the club for my money and was happy to pay it. I guess a guy making 60 k a yr must be a big deal to some of you. Personally I think 60 k a yr is chump change for all the work that gets done. Who cares, you bunch of non car enthusiast winers. As if everyone of you are saints in the business world, this is a car club, I choose to pay the money to get what I was getting. If you don't like it, leave now, it's that simple. Go to the alley and ***** all you want, end of story, thanks for ruining something I really enjoyed being a part of.

 

[the_postman]

Excellent post Coloviper. I'm incredulous that none of these have been dealt with yet. There really are no excuses for it.

 

[Gustfront]

So here's the thing, for less than two frickin Benjamin's I got to meet the heads of Chrysler, talk to engineers, race around world famous tracks. I've met a bunch of great car enthusiasts and made some great friends, etc. and it's all being destroyed by people that are obviously not interested in the car itself. It's all about politics, and I can't stand everyone of you. I enjoyed what I got out of the club for my money and was happy to pay it. I guess a guy making 60 k a yr must be a big deal to some of you. Personally I think 60 k a yr is chump change for all the work that gets done. Who cares, you bunch of non car enthusiast winers. As if everyone of you are saints in the business world, this is a car club, I choose to pay the money to get what I was getting. If you don't like it, leave now, it's that simple. Go to the alley and ***** all you want, end of story, thanks for ruining something I really enjoyed being a part of.

Wow...Wasn't the members that ruined your club. Oh, and see if the "heads of Chrysler" are still interested in VCA events. Wasn't the members that caused that loss either.

 

[ViperJohn]

Thank you for the answers ViperJohn.
It's the language of "they have offered to step away" that is continuing to hurt this club imo. They should be TOLD to step away. And, from what I gather, it's a little too late to be saying "if it will help the club". The club is in the position it is in due to the actions and/or lack of action by these people. They had the chance to "help the club". They blew it.

Wade

Probably not the best choice of words on my part. We have already put out RFP for club management. We are awaiting bids. Suppose *** took the hard stance that people are suggesting, who is going to answer the phones tomorrow? You perhaps? What about the transfer of data? I realize the answers appear simple and straight forward, but in reality the solutions take time and are complex. The more you dig in, the more comes up that has to be addressed. Previous *** never got around to getting RFP out. We have managed to do it in one week. We also put Coast 2 Coast on a month to month notice. Again, something that was never taken care of. Don't forget we are also re-working by-laws with the help of regional presidents in an attempt to bring power back to the regions and get rid of certain executive powers to prevent what happened recently from happening again.

 

[Gustfront]

Probably not the best choice of words on my part. We have already put out RFP for club management. We are awaiting bids. Suppose *** took the hard stance that people are suggesting, who is going to answer the phones tomorrow? You perhaps? What about the transfer of data? I realize the answers appear simple and straight forward, but in reality the solutions take time and are complex. The more you dig in, the more comes up that has to be addressed. Previous *** never got around to getting RFP out. We have managed to do it in one week. We also put Coast 2 Coast on a month to month notice. Again, something that was never taken care of. Don't forget we are also re-working by-laws with the help of regional presidents in an attempt to bring power back to the regions and get rid of certain executive powers to prevent what happened recently from happening again.

So I'm the bad guy now? "who's going to answer the phones. You perhaps". You went on the attack pretty quick when I pointed out what the majority of your members want. I seem to remember a poll that was an overwhelming "get them out" The majority wants them gone now. As a Viper owner, and prospective client (member), perhaps you might not want to attack the very people you will need to keep your club from going under completely.
btw, the contract for Coast 2 Coast Management runs out in 4 days. So, saying that "oh look how much we are doing, we put them on a month to month" is kind of misleading....

Wade.

 

[ViperJohn]

Replying to Colovipers post. IE explorer wouldn't let me do paragraphs so I switched over to chrome.

1. To be honest, you seem to have more knowledge than I do regarding the tooling we have in storage. The only items that I know about it are, it was checked out by Herb Helbig and was determined to be worth saving. Some of the tooling is huge, as in can't even be moved by tractor trailer. If scrapping it is the right thing to do, I agree. In all fairness, how can I be expected to make a motion to terminate a lease when I have no idea what's behind door No.1 and what it would take to move it. In an effort to do some research on my own, I spoke to someone who knows a little bit about tooling, he had offered to help make an evaluation and perhaps help us get the tooling placed. I would welcome your assistance in all honesty. I am not someone who pretends to have all the answers, one thing I have l learned is that when you are unsure or don't know about a specific item, I try to find someone who does.

2. This was all set up and handled before my watch. I don't think it was handled right. If another raffle is announced that doesn't have permit and results aren't streamed on line, I would resign in a heart beat.

3. If we were to immediately cancel those contracts, it would probably be a year before another magazine got done. That might be acceptable for some, but not all. There is an issue going to print now and a lot of work has been done for future issues. So if we terminated contracts immediately who would step up to handle? In an office/business environment, you simply replace. I know there are others out there who can put together magazines but it takes time to line all this up.

I also wanted to thank everyone for not bashing me and keeping dialog professional. I am simply doing this to try to fix and save a car club that has given me many wonderful memories and experiences. No other car I have ever owned has brought as much to the table as owning a Viper. I knew the club was in trouble when I agreed to take this position. For me the regret of doing nothing outweighed the regret of getting involved. The past two weeks have been a whirlwind. I can't speak for previous boards. I know there was a lot of bickering and things weren't getting done. I can't say that about current ***. While we may not all agree on every single issue, at heart, we are trying to do what's best for the membership. For me, it's a similar approach to how I run the VA/MD Region. It's all about the members, I can't help but feel the VCA lost sight of that, up until about two weeks ago.

Please give us a chance to right the ship. I'd hate to think I have been reading 200 emails per day and on countless conference calls for nothing the past two weeks.

 

[ViperJohn]

So I'm the bad guy now? "who's going to answer the phones. You perhaps". You went on the attack pretty quick when I pointed out what the majority of your members want. I seem to remember a poll that was an overwhelming "get them out" The majority wants them gone now. As a Viper owner, and prospective client (member), perhaps you might not want to attack the very people you will need to keep your club from going under completely.
btw, the contract for Coast 2 Coast Management runs out in 4 days. So, saying that "oh look how much we are doing, we put them on a month to month" is kind of misleading....

Wade.

Not meant as an attack, merely trying to point out that there would be no one to answer the phones if we simply terminated C2C immediately.

As far as contract running out, if we hadn't put them on month to month notice, it would have automatically renewed for another year is my understanding per the contract language. Not trying to mislead, there is significance to putting them on month to month basis.

 

[Gustfront]

Not meant as an attack, merely trying to point out that there would be no one to answer the phones if we simply terminated C2C immediately.

As far as contract running out, if we hadn't put them on month to month notice, it would have automatically renewed for another year is my understanding per the contract language. Not trying to mislead, there is significance to putting them on month to month basis.

Now that is good information, and shows movement. Thank you.

 

[Coloviper]

ViperJohn;
Absolutely you and the new *** have a very unenviable job or turning the ship in the right direction. Any and all efforts to do so are very much appreciated. I wanted to pass along a few more comments to the responses:

1. Unfortunately with a 60 hr week job (lately) and our new little guy at home (5 months old now) there is not much I can do to help with the equipment evaluation. I am sure there are others in the club with auto manufacturing experience who are more qualified to evaluate and can help. If you put our an official request for that kind of support along with a documented plan of attack, I would be very surprised if someone in the VCA would not step forth and offer to help. In the end, you need to:
   1. Document Part-Function Description-Dimensions-Weight-Location-Priority of all the inventory. This will only come from walking the warehouses and building up an inventory list which can be ran against the transport or Chrysler Bill of Materials List from the contract for verification. There is no way Chrysler would have entered into a contract with VCA/VPA without tying that contract to a specific inventory list. This needs to take place immediately. And will let you know what you have.
   2. Someone with knowledge needs to review that list as a Consultant and then go out there to verify just how it could ever be used again. If it can’t be used again as originally intended, then donate it to the ViperCafe or something as a museum piece because that is all it will be. Or offer it for sale via Online Auction to some of the crazy Viper collectors with them picking up all costs for shipping, etc. Either way if it cannot be of use again, it will be gone and no longer a liability.
   3. Yes if an employee, or contractor is behaving badly you have to sometimes just grin, bear it and work through it to then be able to say, “okay, I will never do that again”. Not a perfect situation but is what it is. HOWEVER in the case we are faced with Tim and the actions of that letter to Chrysler, Sergio, we have a very hostile, damning situation and that cannot be tolerated. Yes it will create work to terminate and move from that relatively quickly however it must be done. Unfortunately it is similar to a situation where a family members dies. Never a good time and is a major inconvenience, however as a responsible person you have to gut down and do it because it is right. This is the same situation.
2. With regards to the raffle, we can say just move on, but that will not restore trust. As ugly as the truth is and the members know you and the new board are not tied to that, it must simple be stated what really happened. Again not n envious position to have to dig but it must take place in a post-mortem and be detailed back to the members. This is the only way to ensure in how things will be different next time and participants will have faith in participating again. To just move on unfortunately will not work. Again work to determine will take some time but set a deadline now and report the findings in detail to the members but document your plan of evaluation and the questions that will be addressed in the report.
3. In regards to the VPA, C2C ad Viper Magazine, yes sometimes the only people that can be tolerated are the ones you work with right now or have working for you. The “get through it and then never again scenario” I explained above. That can be tolerated for employees and people who are trying are trustworthy but have poor performance That cannot be the case for people and employees that trust is gone and their attitudes are hurting everything the club was built for. Despite the work, you must terminate and get through it. The excuse of well no one else is there to do it is not valid because every moment they are there, they are doing even more damage to club as opposed to if it just sat. I am sure if you look at VPA orders since this whole thing broke loose, they are probably down 75%. Then again how could it be verified that is the case if nothing is conveyed from them which is factual. Hence:
   1. Contract with Chris must be immediately terminated. Someone from the club must go there and sort through what we have, etc. take a full inventory, get the financials in the hands of someone who can organize and verify. It is no different situation than if Chris was hit by a bus tomorrow on the way to work. You have to deal with it in either case so thankfully that is not the case for Chris with the bus but the VCA response and effort is the same. No hiding, only doing. It is again a hard job and just must be done.
   2. C2C is a little simpler as for the most part, outside of VOI12 situation, it has been more transparent but the club needs to know that month to month is more than word. Put a deadline on when the RFPs (Request for Proposals) or RFQs (Request for Quotes) will be received, reviewed and awarded. The documented process with dates shows clear responsibility.
   3. Viper Magazine is pretty clear however. The deadlines are way, way out of hand. Sorry but the quality is not better and simply on par with the old Viper magazine (I have every issue since inception) and articles are on part with Snake Eyes, etc. Get the next issue out and then freeze on the development work for the magazine until the new contract can be issued. Refund the money to non-members and then write a letter to members to explain the situation. Provide a VCA newsletter in the meantime. If it is a year then it is a year. It is no different than waiting over ½ a year for these magazines of late anyway. Damage I done and trust is gone. I think you will find VCA members understanding in that situation. The contract must be immediately terminated as it is no different than no magazines right no which is the situation we have.

The situation is a lot of work and for the club to come out of it, it just must be done. There is unfortunately no way around it. I think if you assemble a trusted team to do this and provide the kind of transparency I am explaining here, you will find the members earning that trust back. This applies to any business not just office. If the *** does this and solicits the help in an open fashion from VCA members than this can be fixed and most likely in a shorter period of time than many will believe. Look if they can build house on Extreme Home Makeover in 1 week , where a builder takes 9 months all because of a documented plan, 100% open communications and team work, not blind faith, then the club can be fixed quicker too.
Hope that helps!

 

[eucharistos]

Great post Colo!

You got it Colo....100%.

it really is that simple to begin with

 

[Bobpantax]

I think that the fact that Colovipers has posted two, calm, thoughtful detailed posts that achnowledge and respectfully respond to ViperJohn's posts shows significant progress. We can all agree that the New Board is in possession of more data concerning the problems and has a better handle on what needs to be done to fix them than us - yes? They are unpaid volunteers and believe that they can fix the problems. They have a better handle on the timing needs and the specific acts needed to do so. They also seem, so far, to have been taking excellent steps to move forward. At this point, they need people who have the time to help do some grunt work. Whoever wants to take credit for winning the battle to reform the VCA, just take the credit. Congrats! Now that you won the battle, its time to put the swords away and help rebuild.

 

[ROCKET62]

It would also be nice to have a single voice / point of contact / frequent updates from the board. In all of these posts, it is hard to determine exactly what steps the board has taken, and exactly where things stand. It would be very easy to put a "sticky" post with updates posted by the board only.

 

[TrackAire]

It would also be nice to have a single voice / point of contact / frequent updates from the board. In all of these posts, it is hard to determine exactly what steps the board has taken, and exactly where things stand. It would be very easy to put a "sticky" post with updates posted by the board only.

Great idea.

Also, Bob just mentioned the"New Board".....is there any way a list of the "old" Board (and when they actually either left or their terms ran out) members be listed and who is now on the "new" Board?

I think it would be very helpful for people to know who we are dealing with and who is helping make changes to move the club forward.

George

 

[MoparBoyy]

So here's the thing, for less than two frickin Benjamin's I got to meet the heads of Chrysler, talk to engineers, race around world famous tracks. I've met a bunch of great car enthusiasts and made some great friends, etc. and it's all being destroyed by people that are obviously not interested in the car itself. It's all about politics, and I can't stand everyone of you. I enjoyed what I got out of the club for my money and was happy to pay it. I guess a guy making 60 k a yr must be a big deal to some of you. Personally I think 60 k a yr is chump change for all the work that gets done. Who cares, you bunch of non car enthusiast winers. As if everyone of you are saints in the business world, this is a car club, I choose to pay the money to get what I was getting. If you don't like it, leave now, it's that simple. Go to the alley and ***** all you want, end of story, thanks for ruining something I really enjoyed being a part of.

multiple your figures by 4 and then reevaluate as your information is inaccurate

 

[Bobpantax]

Excellent idea. Maybe when the next Board is elected in January they can upload video introductions of themselves to a VCA Utube page and post a link in the members section. I doubt that this Board has time to do that but maybe they will surprise us.

It would also be nice to have a single voice / point of contact / frequent updates from the board. In all of these posts, it is hard to determine exactly what steps the board has taken, and exactly where things stand. It would be very easy to put a "sticky" post with updates posted by the board only.

 

[Coloviper]

I wouldn't say my posts are progress of the club's reboot. If you go back to my very first posts on this all when it blew up for the VCA, I detailed exact what had to be done, step by step in a professional manner as I had intimate experience with something similar when I was part of the clean up / repair team for the Saleen Club of America (SCOA) when this all happened there years ago. Unfortunately that advice was not followed here otherwise it would have saved all the heart ache in between for all involved. What was setting me over the edge at times was the double talk and twisting that was being exhibited by some in a manner to suppress the truth and form an opinion not of the truth. To some extent it still is happening with some. However for myself, all I can do is pass over advice as I have done. It is up to the VCA to act on it. Either way I have said my piece!

 

[HyperViper]

For starters your numbers are way off. Sounds like a country with an anarchy would be perfect fit for you. It isn't about the membership fee, it's about those at the national level taking advantage of the members. I would prefer to ignore it too, but that won't lead to change. Nobody likes to be lied to and hiding facts is the exact same thing.

So here's the thing, for less than two frickin Benjamin's I got to meet the heads of Chrysler, talk to engineers, ra

ce around world famous tracks. I've met a bunch of great car enthusiasts and made some great friends, etc. and it's all being destroyed by people that are obviously not interested in the car itself. It's all about politics, and I can't stand everyone of you. I enjoyed what I got out of the club for my money and was happy to pay it. I guess a guy making 60 k a yr must be a big deal to some of you. Personally I think 60 k a yr is chump change for all the work that gets done. Who cares, you bunch of non car enthusiast winers. As if everyone of you are saints in the business world, this is a car club, I choose to pay the money to get what I was getting. If you don't like it, leave now, it's that simple. Go to the alley and ***** all you want, end of story, thanks for ruining something I really enjoyed being a part of.

 

[luc]

So far the only real progress has been a "moderation" of moderation. The *** is revising the bylaws. The members should be asked to vote on it. There is no valid reason to reserve national positions to regional leaders. Let me rephrase that : whatever advantage to it, is far outweighed by the need to have outsiders/fresh blood to avoid a repeat of what has been going in for the past 12 years. Posts/threads should NEVER be removed EXECPT for insults or personal attack and if so, It should be done not by management but by an elected review board, totally independent from the national office/ ***

 

[luc]

The VCA need check and balance and you can't have a board that has the power to silence opposition. That's why I proposed and elected and independent review board for the website/forums

 

[Free2go]

Are there any lawyers representing the "members"? Is anything that has been done illegal? Are there any members who are lawyers that can shed some light on the legal culpability of the ***? I would like to know exactly what laws have been broken and exactly who is to blame.

 

[Free2go]

Also, would anyone agree that my avatar is "viper related"? Half man half snake.

 

[slysnake]

Actually, I was going to say something about your "non-viper" avatar. Thank you for explaining it before I made a fool of myself....... again.

 

[Free2go]

Ok, I understand the meanings of slander and libel. Is there anyone out there who has the knowledge and creativity to explain the story in allegory?...... : )