C O D Y
Enthusiast
2 more on ebay now......
2461925730
2462002179
2461925730
2462002179
VCA Edition Ram SRT-10 on ebay
- Thread starter DFiorelli
- Start date
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
And I stand by what I wrote yesterday.....more people should have friends like you!No negative intention ever was meant to be the outcome of this,Just trying to help a friend in need.
I was always trying to just disuss the issue, not any one person, sorry. While I agree with 585 that any one person can do whatever they want.....there is still a "right" and a "wrong". That is what I try to pass on to my next generation. Just becuase a person CAN do something....doen't make it right. All the best wishes for your friend!vipah
Enthusiast
Guys, its a F%$#*ing truck for sale. You think someone killed someone from the reaction. They bought it, they can do what they want with it.
No one signed anything that said they could not do so. No laws were broken. And no contract was violated.
What consideration was given by the VCA or DC to not sell? If they had a buy back guarantee then I can see the grounds for a discussion. But they didn't give any. Don't say the right to BUY, and spend money to go pick it up, was good enough consideration.
Once again, no laws or contracts were broken.
No one signed anything that said they could not do so. No laws were broken. And no contract was violated.
What consideration was given by the VCA or DC to not sell? If they had a buy back guarantee then I can see the grounds for a discussion. But they didn't give any. Don't say the right to BUY, and spend money to go pick it up, was good enough consideration.
Once again, no laws or contracts were broken.
I agree. Let's quit having these special offers and coupon deals and let the free market determine the prices. That way there is no basis to cheat the system or make a buck. I mean with all the cheating and ******** why would Dodge want to do this again? What are they gaining? It can't be owner LOYALTY if the first thing the buyer does is SELL. Of course, if the special offers were eliminated the cheaters would be first in line to complain.
You guys crack me up. If it is not contractual or illegal it must be okay.
You guys crack me up. If it is not contractual or illegal it must be okay.
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
No, if they are smart they will still be the registered owners the next time a raffle comes along.
Yet another person who is under the impression that something is only "wrong" if it is written down somewhere.
Ron, as a matter of PRINCIPLE they don't get it,but we'll continue to have these deals....but some just won't be "invited".
vipah
Enthusiast
You self righteous guys crack me up.
You need to get a grip on reality and the free market. I guess YOU decide what is right and wrong, not laws and contracts.
The only ones I see crying and ******** are the crybabies that didn't win a chance to buy the truck. Sounds like a sorry bunch of poor sports to me.
I pity you.
You need to get a grip on reality and the free market. I guess YOU decide what is right and wrong, not laws and contracts.
The only ones I see crying and ******** are the crybabies that didn't win a chance to buy the truck. Sounds like a sorry bunch of poor sports to me.
I pity you.
Vipah, screw you. I did not try for a truck as I did not want one. I could have bought and sold but chose not to as it was against my principles. As far as free market. Let me see. 49 trucks built EXCLUSIVELY for VCA members. What part of that is FREE MARKET? If it were free market those trucks would have been offered by dealers to the highest bidders and not to VCA only members. Exclusion and free market are diametrically opposed concepts.
And if you have pity at least spell it correctly.
And if you have pity at least spell it correctly.
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
Don't worry Ron...you KNOW you have them when they result to attacks such as this!! LOL!!! As I have already stated...I didn't buy in for a chance since I, too, was not in the position to buy one at that time....seems he can't read very well either. The whole theory of PRINCIPLES and MORALS have no effect on him. He doesn't understand that it makes NO difference HOW MANY are up for sale.....that doen't make it right. Also....I love to see him get all worked up and unable to carry on a civilized and intelligent discussion on the topic....actually MAKES my day! He can stay down where he is....I prefer the moral high ground on this one.
Why are the guys selling branded as "cheaters"?I dont understand.And when do you think it is ok for one of the 50 guys to sell?How much time has to pass?Who makes that decision?If I dont like the truck,or if things change in my personal life,when is it ok to sell?If you have a problem with 7 people selling their vehicles now,when is it ok?How long do you think it has to be kept?Of course you cant answer that,you cant put a timetable of any sort on that.I had a call from one of the guys who has a truck.He hates it.He thought it would be cool,but he doesnt like it.He is not trying to make a huge profit,just trying to get rid of something he doesnt like.Alot of people who entered arent truck guys,there Viper guys.But you never know till you try.
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
Progress??? I don't think I ever used the term cheaters so I'll put that in the "shoes doesn't fit" category for me.
You have a valid point, and I will NOT dispute that. I have tried to keep my part of the discussion on the principles inolved (as much as possible). All I can say comes from what I would do....which is nowhere near what everyone else would do. Speak solely about these particular trucks and this particular special.....if I had won, and bought the truck, then decided I didn't like it, I wouls let Joe Houss know, and I would attempt to keep to the spirit of the program as much as possible and not profiteer. ...I know...all well and good to SAY it now while not being in the predicament. I have just shared my personal thought sbased on this issue...with no actual bearing on what is really right or wrong. I completely understand that just because it is something I wouldn't do....that doesn't make it "wrong", so please don't think I am that shallow or self-involved. Yes, there are extenuating circumstances.....but please at least try to accept the view that in theory, to profiteer from a special deal like this is, at the very least, wrong on a personal level? NO names, NO one person singled out. I'll grant that it is NOT illegal, NOT a breach of contract (as far as I know), and at the core....is what America is "all about" (in one sense). I disagree with anyone selling to turn a profit, but I'd still tip one back with them.....it ain't THAT bothersome. I will admit my biggest concern is with those who purchased the truck (or SRT, or GTS via coupon) for the sole purpose to resell at a profit. That is what I called cheating. It is cheating the intent of the program, it is cheating Dodge, it is cheating the dealers, and it is cheating Viper owners in the future (if such programs are not conducted because of these abuses).
I know several who sold at a profit before, and for all I know may be doing it with this program. That fact does not prevent being friends or being friendly with. But it is still behavior that I do not condone or accept.
I know several who sold at a profit before, and for all I know may be doing it with this program. That fact does not prevent being friends or being friendly with. But it is still behavior that I do not condone or accept.
vipah
Enthusiast
Do you consider dealers pricing vehicles well above MSRP as cheating the consumers?
No, pricing above or below MSRP is acceptable. It is basically what the market will bear. If they employ unscrupulous tactics like backing out of lesser deals to get the highest margin, then yes I agree it is unacceptable.
But the main point here is that the dealers are the OEMs sales arm. Their business is selling cars (for both the OEMs and their own benefit). Additional profits for above MSRP sales, in theory, add to the dealer income and help offset those that require more sales, advertising or reduction expense. In general dealer health (monetary) is good for the OEM.
Conversely, when individuals use good faith owner loyalty programs to their own advantage, they provide no benefit to the OEM beyond the sale itself, and provide absolutely nothing toward the dealer body. In this instance the owner loyalty benefit (how likely the owner is to buy cars from that manufacturer in the future) is probably lost.
Call it like you want but in the end it is Dodge's decision whether to use programs like this, and if the perceived benefit is less than the costs and difficulties involved, then it is doubtful they will make the effort. To the OEM it is a business decision. No benefit = no loyalty program, they have better places to put their money and energy.
But the main point here is that the dealers are the OEMs sales arm. Their business is selling cars (for both the OEMs and their own benefit). Additional profits for above MSRP sales, in theory, add to the dealer income and help offset those that require more sales, advertising or reduction expense. In general dealer health (monetary) is good for the OEM.
Conversely, when individuals use good faith owner loyalty programs to their own advantage, they provide no benefit to the OEM beyond the sale itself, and provide absolutely nothing toward the dealer body. In this instance the owner loyalty benefit (how likely the owner is to buy cars from that manufacturer in the future) is probably lost.
Call it like you want but in the end it is Dodge's decision whether to use programs like this, and if the perceived benefit is less than the costs and difficulties involved, then it is doubtful they will make the effort. To the OEM it is a business decision. No benefit = no loyalty program, they have better places to put their money and energy.
vipah
Enthusiast
If they are that concerned about allowing a loyal customer to make a profit by flipping a car then they should stipulate that in the contract. Otherwise it is completely fair and square. I think rewarding the loyal customer by allowing this opportunity is part of the loyalty program.
Just like Jaguar did with the XJ220. The buyers had to sign a contract that they would not sell for 2 years.
Just like Jaguar did with the XJ220. The buyers had to sign a contract that they would not sell for 2 years.
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
Oh, you hit the nail on the head. As things go in life, people TRY to give others the benefit of the doubt...at first. They like to think that when given an opportunity that people will AUTOMATICALLY do not just the legally "right" thing to do...but the morally "right" thing (as DODGES has done for us). Only when people prove that they cannot be trusted....new "rules and regulations" are created to prevent it from happening again. Neverending story...those that have gone before us have literally ruined it for us. Speaking in general terms, or course. Given the choice of following the spirit of a program....and not....human nature has us doing what WE want. Oh, I see more special deals....but I also see more rules. We ALL hate rules......but they are a result of issues like this. It goes back to the simple idea that something doesn't have to be illegal/"in the rules" for it to be wrong.
Gotta go to the gym! Have a good day!Steve Ferguson
Enthusiast
Pro, your cause is one the VCA should be PROUD to be a part of. I hope you do well with it, and if time allows it would be great if we could come up with a plan to help raise a little more to help your cause.
My coment was not about you and or ANY individual, but rather to explain the mind-set we have to deal with when and if a coupon opportunity comes around again.
Everything Bad is saying is right, as is what Tony is telling us. But just because we agree does not make it any easier. Dodge sells to dealers. Dealers (for the most part) do not like being told who they can sell to. Dodge has a contract with Dealers. Everything done with the VCA is really done on a hand shake. That set-up stacks the odds against our point of view.
All of you are smart business men and women, and you know that negotiations are not about fair, but rather about using what you can to get your point accross. These types of issues will be something that will be to the dealers favor, so we just need to deal with them.
Good luck!
My coment was not about you and or ANY individual, but rather to explain the mind-set we have to deal with when and if a coupon opportunity comes around again.
Everything Bad is saying is right, as is what Tony is telling us. But just because we agree does not make it any easier. Dodge sells to dealers. Dealers (for the most part) do not like being told who they can sell to. Dodge has a contract with Dealers. Everything done with the VCA is really done on a hand shake. That set-up stacks the odds against our point of view.
All of you are smart business men and women, and you know that negotiations are not about fair, but rather about using what you can to get your point accross. These types of issues will be something that will be to the dealers favor, so we just need to deal with them.
Good luck!
vipah
Enthusiast
Vipermed,
I guess you are in charge of moral right and wrong. It must be a tough responsibility.
Rules will make everyone's intentions clear, so it isn't up to individual interpretation of morality.
I guess you are in charge of moral right and wrong. It must be a tough responsibility.
Rules will make everyone's intentions clear, so it isn't up to individual interpretation of morality.
doctorbob
Enthusiast
My only concern is that the choices of a few alter the way Dodge looks at the VCA and its members. I think that the raffles, events, special edition vehicles, and coupon program make the VCA and Dodge relationship an rare thing these days. I do not see any other major car maker doing this with a car club.
The good news is that the highest estimate I've seen of the VCA Edition Rams for sale is 7. If true, 86% of us are holding the vehicles. Hopefully Dodge will focus on this rather than the 14% when deciding on special offers in the future.
Supercharged Vipermad
Enthusiast
Vipermed,
I guess you are in charge of moral right and wrong. It must be a tough responsibility.
Rules will make everyone's intentions clear, so it isn't up to individual interpretation of morality.
I'm not Scott.
I am only of the opinion that the reason we have some many stupd rules is because someone before us just had to find a loophole of some sort, so they could rationalize what they were doing as being "OK". I have no problem with that as I can't really change it. It is cause-and-effect. So, as I said...as a result of those determined to find that loophole in this case....the next time there will likely be attempts made to plug those holes. Hence MORE rules and regulations. I wouldn't be surprised (not knowing history) if there were NEVER any stop signs. Then, one day, some guy who thought he was above being courteous and proper (and allowing traffic to take turns at the intersection) decided he was just going to do what he wanted (because there wasn't anything that said he couldn't). It snowballed from there and rules and law reign supreme. All the while, if people would just use common courtesy and act reponsibly....life would be great. I hope there are more rules for the next one (maybe like what I hypothesized above)...that would just make the odds better for me.
1TONY1
Enthusiast
Very good point. 86% is a good number.
Sam Goldfarb
Enthusiast
I am pretty upset about the whole situation regarding the Ram SRT-10 trucks. I ordered a red one from a local Spitzer Dodge store, didn't even enter the raffle, since I thought I had a commitment to them, only to find out later that they were not even allowed to get one. I bought two raffle tickets for a blue one and left all the chances for the other 49 to everyone else. Quite frankly, had I won either the VCA raffle or a chance to buy a blue one, I would have sold one of the two ( Blue or the promised Red one). The Dodge dealer also decided that since there was a lot of profit to be made that the "deal" I thought I was getting was off and if by chance they could get their hands on one, they wanted several thousand over MSRP. I have been a VCA member since 98 and the club secretary for the last 4 years. I "donate" 200+ hours a year, haul my motorhome to club functions, as a home base, and spend a lot of cash to participate in all the "fun"!
It was nice of Dodge to do the VCA Ram-SRT-10 thing, but never forget, Dodge and especially it's dealers are here to make money!! I think anyone that buys anything has the right to do what they want with it. The ******* by Spitzer and the way that Dodge "allocates" their products *****! If Dodge wanted to do the right thing, they should have offered all VCA members a program to get a truck similar to the way the SRT-10 was offered. I ordered an SRT-10 Viper and also had another Ohio club member run his through my "loyal" Spitzer Dodge dealer, not to mention the other many vehicles I have purchased through them.
Their new attitude is now, "Why should we sell you a truck for less than we can sell it to someone else?" My thoughts at this time are " Why should I donate so much time and money to VCA, when I am really just supporting Dodge's efforts to support their dealers!"
If this is too negative of a comment for the VCA and Dodge to read I am sorry to burst your bubbles. If I owned a company that had a lot of orders, I would hire more people to make what the customer wanted or stop building a bunch of vehicles that I had to discount and offer thousands of dollars off in rebates to give the market what it wanted. But what would I know. I have 17 vehicles and those new Corvettes are about the same price as a Ram SRT-10!
Sam Goldfarb
Ohio VCA Secretary
It was nice of Dodge to do the VCA Ram-SRT-10 thing, but never forget, Dodge and especially it's dealers are here to make money!! I think anyone that buys anything has the right to do what they want with it. The ******* by Spitzer and the way that Dodge "allocates" their products *****! If Dodge wanted to do the right thing, they should have offered all VCA members a program to get a truck similar to the way the SRT-10 was offered. I ordered an SRT-10 Viper and also had another Ohio club member run his through my "loyal" Spitzer Dodge dealer, not to mention the other many vehicles I have purchased through them.
Their new attitude is now, "Why should we sell you a truck for less than we can sell it to someone else?" My thoughts at this time are " Why should I donate so much time and money to VCA, when I am really just supporting Dodge's efforts to support their dealers!"
If this is too negative of a comment for the VCA and Dodge to read I am sorry to burst your bubbles. If I owned a company that had a lot of orders, I would hire more people to make what the customer wanted or stop building a bunch of vehicles that I had to discount and offer thousands of dollars off in rebates to give the market what it wanted. But what would I know. I have 17 vehicles and those new Corvettes are about the same price as a Ram SRT-10!
Sam Goldfarb
Ohio VCA Secretary
ABADASP
Enthusiast
I tried for the raffle truck and the 49 VCA trucks no luck.Called my dealer we used to order 4 SRT`S through and was told he didn`t qualify for the Rams. The local dealer here in Okc wants $20,000 over sticker for his. Come on DC you need to support the people who are supporting you.
jimandela
Enthusiast
YES!
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