VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Joe117,

If you drive your car in the early morning and it is cold out, does your car feel faster? Does it feel like it has more power? I do not think that you can answer no to either of these questions. The Vipair brings in cold air and the faster you go the more cold air you get. The fan used in the dyno shop for this run was not very powerful and if it had been more powerful the gains would probably have ben more.

Read above we are eliminating the BS by offering a money back if not sattisfied. Nobody is trying to pull the wool over your eyes here, just offer you a product that gives you more performance for a relatively cheap price.

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

If 16 extra hp is important to you and if this thing will give it to you, well, buy it.

Ahh...if it's not important you probably should own a Toyota Tercel not a VIPER!

 

[twinvipers]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

200.00 bucks for 16RWHP.......sounds good to me

I'll buy one tomorrow and let you guys know the dyno difference at the end of the week. Dyno Jet Dyno.

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

If that dyno graph that J DAWG posted is the real result, I'm saying that it will not give any SOTP feel. Trying to feel 16hp out of about 400 just isn't going to happen.

... But nobody can feel a 4% hp gain.

I can certainly attest to the fact that you can feel a 16 hp difference. If you can't and don't think that 16 extra hp is worth it than I think you should appreciate a performance car more on the order of a minivan.

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

$200?!?! For a $5.00 piece of plastic? Ouch.

I didn't know it was that expensive.

 

[Torquemonster]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

$200?!?! For a $5.00 piece of plastic? Ouch.

I didn't know it was that expensive.

Ah yes grasshopper, but to make them you must first have money to create a plastic mold, and for the R & D, and all the labor that went into it - when no one was paying you but you kept working, and bills kept arriving, then the overhead of running the mold operation etc - and that is how $5 of plastic costs $200. I doubt there's any profit in it until it has sold quite a few - by then there'll be plenty of other valid tests and it'll deserve to earn a buck.

Innovators don't always get it right - but we sure need em - and if it works - why not support it.... I've even seen something like the Tornado work in some cases (that was for Joe117 - to keep him alert).

Don't be a scrooge mcduck and have a go

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I'll wait for the Japanese knock-off.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I'm not saying that it isn't worth $200.
I'm not saying that it doesn't give you 16hp.

What I am saying is that it seems very strange that it feels like a 50hp increase but the dyno can only see a peak of 16hp.

Can you feel 16hp? Well, how much faster would you run at the drags with 16 extra horses?

Let me make an estimate. I think a 100 shot would give me close to a second. So let me predict that 16hp would give .16 seconds. Let's say .2 seconds.

Can you feel .2 seconds out of a 12.5 second run? Well, it comes out to 1.6% and I don't think you can feel one point six percent of anything.

Could you estimate your speed on the highway within 1.6%? Are we going 80 or 81.28?
Does that bag of cookies weigh a pound or 16.256 ounces.

So, there's my slightly scientific reason why I say that 16hp is undetectable. I'd like to see how anyone backs up their claim of being able to feel 16hp other than saying you can feel it.

Now look, just because I don't see any value in buying a device that will not change the street performance of my Viper does not mean that I don't "appreciate a performance car".

I'm not racing my Viper. I'm not street racing my Viper. This thing will not change the driving experience for me one bit. I can roll on the power from time to time and get that kick out of driving my Viper.
Tell me, am I going to feel a peak increase of 16hp?

I claim that the 16hp can be measured but not perceived.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

And by the way,
Didn't we have a discussion about this kind of thing a few months ago?

Someone posted that he had driven his Viper on the street with temp probes in the intake and at the front of the car.

He said that the temp was the same.

If his measurements were valid, it would make these deflectors, or any cold air airbox, look like they are only making a little extra power on a dyno and that it wouldn't really give you anything on the road.

If I were researching this kind of device, I would measure the variable that is supposed to be changed, the air temp in the intake compared with outside air. Two simultaneous measurements. About a hundred dollars worth of test equipment.
You don't need dyno runs to do that.

So, You guys who invented this, where are the intake temperature measurements?

 

[Mike Adams]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Dyno's can be decieving I every time I tested my car the second run was higher than the first and the 3rd higher than the second. After that it leveled out. I also found that if I tested with the hood completely shut I gain 7 - 10 hp over it open completely or ever slightly.

When you dyno test make sure everytime you test everything is equal. Fan same distance hood in same position.

This is a cool idea, if it works I cannot speak to. But a few years ago their was a pre-chiller on the market that brought the temp of the engine down at least 20 degrees or more and where is it know. I would have loved to install one of these prechillers but was never able to get one

 

[twinvipers]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

He said it's a money back guarantee !

You own a $60,000 car. Spend the 200 bucks. If you don't like it,send it back.

Didn't most us us spend 200.00 (or close) for tubes and filters ?

I do street race and 2 tenths is definitely important...

 

[1TONY1]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I am looking forward to the results.

 

[King RT10]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Your a/c cost you 15 horsepower when on.
Are you going to tell me that you cannot feel the difference when your a/c is on verses off?

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

And by the way,
Didn't we have a discussion about this kind of thing a few months ago?

Someone posted that he had driven his Viper on the street with temp probes in the intake and at the front of the car.

He said that the temp was the same.

If his measurements were valid, it would make these deflectors, or any cold air airbox, look like they are only making a little extra power on a dyno and that it wouldn't really give you anything on the road.

If I were researching this kind of device, I would measure the variable that is supposed to be changed, the air temp in the intake compared with outside air. Two simultaneous measurements. About a hundred dollars worth of test equipment.
You don't need dyno runs to do that.

So, You guys who invented this, where are the intake temperature measurements?

The point that is being missed here is that we are not saying we are dropping temps more than ambiant air.What makes this work is not air temp but air flow.We are providing a path of positive air flow.As i have said before this is not breakthrough technology,track Vipers have been taking advantage of this for years.The NACA duct provides nothing more than passive airflow.This is not a theory but a FACT.This is no dyno fluke.Plain and simple this product provides a pressurized path of air flow directly to your motor,the faster you go the better it flows.King R/T well said with the a/c comparison.

 

[Y2K5SRT]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Well, I can't attest to the results of this product, however I can attest to what was mentioned earlier about the Gen III (SRT) setup: Besides the hood duct in the front, the SRT actually has two very large vents under the hood which channel air from in front of the radiator to the intake. It then takes it a step further and actually has a foam seal that effectively seals off the intake from the engine. In other words, ALL air is coming from outside the car and not in. Heck, hold on a sec and I will take a picture and make a diagram...

Okay, done:

You must be registered for see images

With the above image (I know, a lot of lines) now take a look at the actual airbox on the SRT:

You must be registered for see images

You can pretty clearly see that the airbox fits tightly with the hood seal and that the center "bar" that crosses at the bottom of the hood (between the cool air intake openings) also blocks air from behind the airbox. Bottom line, the SRT is feeding cooler air from outside the car rather than heated air from the engine compartment. More importantly, it pressurizes the air coming in as it is all essentially "force fed" when you are moving.

This mod makes sense to me for that reason alone.

Chris

 

[DEVILDOG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Well, I can't attest to the results of this product, however I can attest to what was mentioned earlier about the Gen III (SRT) setup: Besides the hood duct in the front, the SRT actually has two very large vents under the hood which channel air from in front of the radiator to the intake. It then takes it a step further and actually has a foam seal that effectively seals off the intake from the engine. In other words, ALL air is coming from outside the car and not in. Heck, hold on a sec and I will take a picture and make a diagram...

Okay, done:

You must be registered for see images

With the above image (I know, a lot of lines) now take a look at the actual airbox on the SRT:

You must be registered for see images

You can pretty clearly see that the airbox fits tightly with the hood seal and that the center "bar" that crosses at the bottom of the hood (between the cool air intake openings) also blocks air from behind the airbox. Bottom line, the SRT is feeding cooler air from outside the car rather than heated air from the engine compartment. More importantly, it pressurizes the air coming in as it is all essentially "force fed" when you are moving.

This mod makes sense to me for that reason alone.

Chris

Chris,
Great post! Completely agree with principle and that is why I got the first plastic VIPAIR! I don't need no stinking dyno to tell me the obvious. I believe the gains are even greater than the dyno can show versus actually driving on the road with actual air flow. Great product Steve and Scott! IMHO a better no brainer, cost/benefit mod than K&Ns and smooth tubes! BTW, I can feel the SOTP difference at speed even though I'm running 675 HP. Looking forward to the cooler months coming up in Dallas to feel the full effect!

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Is the principle any different from the advantage performance unit that sells for ~$50?

Thanks.

 

[GTS-R 001]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Here is a link to http://www.vipairperformance.com/ where you can see how the VIPAIR™ works.

Chris, Thanks for the post, a picture is worth a thousand words!

Vipah, Go buy the $50.00 piece of foam and leave this post to the people that want to increase their performance. Isn't there some other no brainer product you can go bash?

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Let's see, a $50 piece of foam or a $200 piece of plastic. They both seem to do the EXACT same thing, now don't they?

I guess you really mean leave this post to the people you can try and sell some snake oil to. It really seems that you are afraid of competition and afraid of some true testing on the dyno. Why is that? Let's see the testing done the way others suggest, three to four runs baseline, then with the Vipair. How about also the advantage piece as well. If they give the same, or near the same results it would seem the no-brainer is the advantage product.

Your persitant, non-substantiated posts make me very leary.

 

[jrkermode]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Russ M,

I don't mean to pile everything on your shoulders, but below are some easy but interesting things you may try during your testing.

1. Do some runs with cover plate removed (the plate where the VipAir mounts), but prior to the VipAir being installed? This will measure how much "fresh" air is contributing versus how much the VipAir ducting is contributing.

2. Tape a small wool fiber to the back floor of the NACA duct and watch it to see whether air is flowing in or out of the NACA duct. I had done a prior test at the track, where I removed the cover plate and the NACA duct. In that test, air flowed out of the NACA duct. Obviously, no HP data from that experiment.

3. Install the VipAir then tape over the NACA duct. Based on the experiment I ran at the track, I suspect this would be a benefit. This configuration would approximate the intake set-up on the GTSR's. I know taping over the NACA duct isn't a very practical street mod, but the track rats may do it.

Thank you for being the guinea pig. I'm very much looking forward to your results.

 

[Shelby3]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Let's see, a $50 piece of foam or a $200 piece of plastic. They both seem to do the EXACT same thing, now don't they?

I guess you really mean leave this post to the people you can try and sell some snake oil to. It really seems that you are afraid of competition and afraid of some true testing on the dyno. Why is that? Let's see the testing done the way others suggest, three to four runs baseline, then with the Vipair. How about also the advantage piece as well. If they give the same, or near the same results it would seem the no-brainer is the advantage product.

Your persitant, non-substantiated posts make me very leary.

A money back guarantee makes me NOT very concerned. What more can someone offer you? I'm going to order one today and will post my experience.

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I didn't say that two tenths wasn't important to racers. I said you couldn't feel two tenths in a quarter mile.
Who think's that they can?

"What makes this work is not air temp but air flow.We are providing a path of positive air flow."

And then you said,
"The Vipair brings in cold air and the faster you go the more cold air you get."


So if someone were to measure the air pressure in the tubes in front of the throttle body, we would see an increase in pressure with the Vipair device while driving at 60mph?
Yes or no?

See, I'm not saying your thing doesn't work. I'm saying that there are better ways of measuring it's efect than running on a dyno.

 

[J DAWG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I think it's fair to say that what one "feels" in a car is subjective. I know some of the runs I make down the 1/4 that I think are horrible have been some of my best.

However, it's the factual results ie: quicker times, more mph, and dyno results that will prove the effectiveness of this or any product. So I am also anxiously awaiting more results.

 

[vipah]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

Can't you get a bare bones NOS system for around $400 that will deliver 150hp?

 

[joe117]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

All these ideas for testing are a little late for the guys selling this device.

They already did their R&D.
They already paid for the mold.
They seem to have a bunch of them all made up to sell.

At this piont I wouldn't think they are going to start any public testing to see if it works.

You guys who want one are going to have to buy it and then see if you agree with their data.

How are you buyers going to test it?

 

[GR8_ASP]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

The subject of ram air benefits have been discussed many a time. In essence at the speeds a Viper can go you will not see any appreciable benefit due to pressurization. The only benefit is lower inlet air temps. And they can be measured. Easily in fact since the PCM already is measuring the temperature in the clean side of the air cleaner. Someone with this system take the car out for a drive and record the difference between the inlet temp at a constant speed (say 60 mph) versus ambient air. Repeat for the other setup and compare. This is not rocket science.

I agree with the dyno results. I witnessed them myself. But a clear understanding of the inlet air temp delta to ambient would satisfy my curiosity in a real world setting. The dyno test with static underhood air, moved only by a fan in front of the car, may result in unusually high underhood temps while the a/c cooled inlet air directed at the front may provide the Vipair system with artificially low inlet air temps. Back to back real world measurements are easy to obtain and would be much more informative.

It has been months since this was first discussed. Can't someone with a Gen II do this test? I would but I have a Gen I and III, both with direct cool air systems. No need for a modification.

 

[Shelby3]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

All these ideas for testing are a little late for the guys selling this device.

They already did their R&D.
They already paid for the mold.
They seem to have a bunch of them all made up to sell.

At this piont I wouldn't think they are going to start any public testing to see if it works.

You guys who want one are going to have to buy it and then see if you agree with their data.

How are you buyers going to test it?

How have the benefits of filters and smooth tubes been verified? Everyone seems to agree there is a worthwhile gain with these mods. Would the same measures work for the Vipair? I know it's not scientific but I ordered a Vipair today and my GTS already seems a bit quicker especially at speed.

 

[Vipermed 97.01]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

All these ideas for testing are a little late for the guys selling this device.

They already did their R&D.
They already paid for the mold.
They seem to have a bunch of them all made up to sell.

At this piont I wouldn't think they are going to start any public testing to see if it works.

You guys who want one are going to have to buy it and then see if you agree with their data.

How are you buyers going to test it?

This was not just a whim product,this product was concieved from our original air intake system,we along with our customers found great benefit to this piece.and we decided to make one affordable for those that wanted to stay with the factory airbox but have the benefit of the extra airflow.This was not a product that we made and hoped would sell with some good P.R.This is a product that has been made affordable with considerable gains,cosmetically appealing and easy to install.

 

[dwhitt]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I assume it will work with a Roe blower in place also?

 

[J DAWG]

Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!

I know it's not scientific but I ordered a Vipair today and my GTS already seems a bit quicker especially at speed.

Shelby, so just by picking up the phone and ordering the Vipair you can already tell a difference??? Wow!!! Just think what it will do when you put it on the car.