VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
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VIPR GTS
Viper Owner
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
This thread is unreal. Scott has made a very inexpensive piece that bolts right into existing screw holes. If you look at the opening it creates above the facia, it certinly can't hurt and will probably at least add a little more fresh air, which is good. This thread makes it appear that Scott is charging thousands for his product. I have the metal version on my car, hell it looks great and may help, I am happy. Thanks Scott.
This thread is unreal. Scott has made a very inexpensive piece that bolts right into existing screw holes. If you look at the opening it creates above the facia, it certinly can't hurt and will probably at least add a little more fresh air, which is good. This thread makes it appear that Scott is charging thousands for his product. I have the metal version on my car, hell it looks great and may help, I am happy. Thanks Scott.
joe117
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
"This thread is unreal. Scott has made a very inexpensive piece that bolts right into existing screw holes. If you look at the opening it creates above the facia, it certinly can't hurt and will probably at least add a little more fresh air, which is good. This thread makes it appear that Scott is charging thousands for his product. I have the metal version on my car, hell it looks great and may help, I am happy. Thanks Scott."
It's good to see your support for Scott and his product. I hope it works out in testing. I hope it makes extra horsepower for everyone. I'm glad that you are pleased with the idea that the device on your car "may help".
I questioned the basis of the claims made for the product and found that other than dyno runs, no testing had been done.
I have questions about the use of a dyno to test an airflow product.
Now you tell me VIPR GTS, what's wrong with me suggesting a test of this device?
Am I being unreasonable?
Do I have a competitive product that I am trying to sell?
Where did you get the metal version that you have on your car?
"This thread is unreal. Scott has made a very inexpensive piece that bolts right into existing screw holes. If you look at the opening it creates above the facia, it certinly can't hurt and will probably at least add a little more fresh air, which is good. This thread makes it appear that Scott is charging thousands for his product. I have the metal version on my car, hell it looks great and may help, I am happy. Thanks Scott."
It's good to see your support for Scott and his product. I hope it works out in testing. I hope it makes extra horsepower for everyone. I'm glad that you are pleased with the idea that the device on your car "may help".
I questioned the basis of the claims made for the product and found that other than dyno runs, no testing had been done.
I have questions about the use of a dyno to test an airflow product.
Now you tell me VIPR GTS, what's wrong with me suggesting a test of this device?
Am I being unreasonable?
Do I have a competitive product that I am trying to sell?
Where did you get the metal version that you have on your car?
S
SUN RA KAT
Guest
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Most dyno runs are done with the hood open and very little restriction to the airbox intake - the NACA duct may be a restriction with those of us with 70 mm throttle bodies and our hoods closed.
I've been too lazy to do the math, but has anyobe compared the area of the NACA duct to the area of two 70 mm round circles? If the two 70 mm round circles have more area than the NACA duct, them the VIPAIR would obviously make more power. (Also, if you do the calculations for 70 mm (times two), then maybe you could please also do the calculation for the stock 65 mm (times two). Enquiring minds want to know.
Most dyno runs are done with the hood open and very little restriction to the airbox intake - the NACA duct may be a restriction with those of us with 70 mm throttle bodies and our hoods closed.
I've been too lazy to do the math, but has anyobe compared the area of the NACA duct to the area of two 70 mm round circles? If the two 70 mm round circles have more area than the NACA duct, them the VIPAIR would obviously make more power. (Also, if you do the calculations for 70 mm (times two), then maybe you could please also do the calculation for the stock 65 mm (times two). Enquiring minds want to know.
vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
I hope the testing gets done versus the advantage product as well. At 25% the cost it could be a screaming buy if it comes close.
I hope the testing gets done versus the advantage product as well. At 25% the cost it could be a screaming buy if it comes close.
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Vipah,
When Russ and I discussed the testing he wqas going to do we touched on the advantage product you mention and Russ did not want to risk having a big piece of foam in a high pressure area of his car where if the foam relaeses it blows right into all the pulleys and belts on the front of his engine. Why don't you test the product you are advocating here and let us all know how you make out!
Kenny,
I am far from an aerodynamic engineer but from all the info I have been gathering the positioning of the NACA duct on the viper's hood actually causes a vaccum situation within the stock airbox at speed, the NACA duct is also located in a boundary vaccum layer area as well, so as you drive your car is actually sucking intake air against a vaccum and thus grabs more hot air from under your hood ( as there is no vaccum there) than cold air from outside the duct, the faster you go the more vaccum. The VIPAIR™ actually allows your car to breath in cold pressurized air from in front of the radiator.
Vipah,
When Russ and I discussed the testing he wqas going to do we touched on the advantage product you mention and Russ did not want to risk having a big piece of foam in a high pressure area of his car where if the foam relaeses it blows right into all the pulleys and belts on the front of his engine. Why don't you test the product you are advocating here and let us all know how you make out!
Kenny,
I am far from an aerodynamic engineer but from all the info I have been gathering the positioning of the NACA duct on the viper's hood actually causes a vaccum situation within the stock airbox at speed, the NACA duct is also located in a boundary vaccum layer area as well, so as you drive your car is actually sucking intake air against a vaccum and thus grabs more hot air from under your hood ( as there is no vaccum there) than cold air from outside the duct, the faster you go the more vaccum. The VIPAIR™ actually allows your car to breath in cold pressurized air from in front of the radiator.
jrkermode
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Russ M,
If the measurements are done while traveling under 100 MPH, the pressures will be very low, on the order of 1 psig on the nose of the car. However, there is a relatively simple way to measure these low pressures using a home-made water manometer.
Start with a long piece of clear plastic tubing, a yardstick and some clear tape.
Tape one end of the tube to the end of the yardstick, then continue taping the tube around the full length of the yardstick. When done the tubing will wrap around the yardstick in a "U" with 2, 3' legs.
Run the other end of the tube to wherever pressure is to be measured. At these low pressures it is somewhat important to account for the orientation of the end of the tube. If the tube is facing directly into the airflow, the pressure reading will be higher than actual. It's best to have the tube out of a direct blast of air. Taping the hose into one of the airbox's water venting ******* would probably be a good start.
Have an assitant sit in the passenger seat and hold the U-tube/yardstick thingy. Fill the open end of the tube with water until the water fills half way up each side of the tube.
The U-tube thingy is now a water manometer. Please note, any measurements will be relative to the interior of the car, but the interior pressure should be repeatable run to run.
During a test run, have the passenger take note of the difference in water level between the 2 halves of the U-tube (1 psi = 27.7" water).
Good luck and thank you again for your efforts on behalf of the Viper community.
Russ M,
If the measurements are done while traveling under 100 MPH, the pressures will be very low, on the order of 1 psig on the nose of the car. However, there is a relatively simple way to measure these low pressures using a home-made water manometer.
Start with a long piece of clear plastic tubing, a yardstick and some clear tape.
Tape one end of the tube to the end of the yardstick, then continue taping the tube around the full length of the yardstick. When done the tubing will wrap around the yardstick in a "U" with 2, 3' legs.
Run the other end of the tube to wherever pressure is to be measured. At these low pressures it is somewhat important to account for the orientation of the end of the tube. If the tube is facing directly into the airflow, the pressure reading will be higher than actual. It's best to have the tube out of a direct blast of air. Taping the hose into one of the airbox's water venting ******* would probably be a good start.
Have an assitant sit in the passenger seat and hold the U-tube/yardstick thingy. Fill the open end of the tube with water until the water fills half way up each side of the tube.
The U-tube thingy is now a water manometer. Please note, any measurements will be relative to the interior of the car, but the interior pressure should be repeatable run to run.
During a test run, have the passenger take note of the difference in water level between the 2 halves of the U-tube (1 psi = 27.7" water).
Good luck and thank you again for your efforts on behalf of the Viper community.
vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Edmonton,
I am not advocating either product. It just seems that both products have similar "effects" and one is 25% the cost. To dismiss it seems foolish.
I don't sell either, but would think that the manufacturer of the more expensive product would certainly want to have conclusive results that their product is better than the one that is 25% the cost. From both a performance and a construction perspective.
Having done product development and marketing for many years I would certainly make sure I had all the data on any competing product.
Edmonton,
I am not advocating either product. It just seems that both products have similar "effects" and one is 25% the cost. To dismiss it seems foolish.
I don't sell either, but would think that the manufacturer of the more expensive product would certainly want to have conclusive results that their product is better than the one that is 25% the cost. From both a performance and a construction perspective.
Having done product development and marketing for many years I would certainly make sure I had all the data on any competing product.
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
"Have an assitant sit in the passenger seat and hold the U-tube/yardstick thingy. Fill the open end of the tube with water until the water fills half way up each side of the tube."
Also, make sure that the "U" is perpendicular to your direction of travel or take your reading while you aren't accelerating.
"Have an assitant sit in the passenger seat and hold the U-tube/yardstick thingy. Fill the open end of the tube with water until the water fills half way up each side of the tube."
Also, make sure that the "U" is perpendicular to your direction of travel or take your reading while you aren't accelerating.
joe117
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
"grabs more hot air from under your hood"
I thought someone measured the under the hood temp vs. outside air temp, while driving on the highway and found that there was no difference.
This post was in a discussion of the cone type filters that some people want to put on the front of the engine in place of the airbox filters..
The way I remember it, people were saying that the cone filters would take in hot air from the radiator. The post said that at highway speed, there was no disadvantage to using these filters since the blast of air from in front and under the car prevented hot air from accumulating under the hood.
The dyno tests using these filters would not result in the same data as a car running on the road.
Anyone else remember this?
"grabs more hot air from under your hood"
I thought someone measured the under the hood temp vs. outside air temp, while driving on the highway and found that there was no difference.
This post was in a discussion of the cone type filters that some people want to put on the front of the engine in place of the airbox filters..
The way I remember it, people were saying that the cone filters would take in hot air from the radiator. The post said that at highway speed, there was no disadvantage to using these filters since the blast of air from in front and under the car prevented hot air from accumulating under the hood.
The dyno tests using these filters would not result in the same data as a car running on the road.
Anyone else remember this?
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
This is one thing that drives me crazy about this board. Guy comes on. Presents a product and what it does. Explains his results and how he optained them. Provides a money back guarantee.
But there are always some whiners in the bunch who have to beat a horse to death. For Christs sake it is 200$!! Who cares!!! It is not a debate! And when someone says, "it felt like 50 rwhp", it is just to coin a phrase...I think everybody knows that. When someone says "my SC feels like a rocket", do you immediately doubt there is a rocket under the car?" I think we can rule out a conspiracy...
Edmonton. Good post, and good luck with your product. I am seriously considering buying one. If I don't like it I can return it, right? Right...
See how simple that was...
This is one thing that drives me crazy about this board. Guy comes on. Presents a product and what it does. Explains his results and how he optained them. Provides a money back guarantee.
But there are always some whiners in the bunch who have to beat a horse to death. For Christs sake it is 200$!! Who cares!!! It is not a debate! And when someone says, "it felt like 50 rwhp", it is just to coin a phrase...I think everybody knows that. When someone says "my SC feels like a rocket", do you immediately doubt there is a rocket under the car?" I think we can rule out a conspiracy...
Edmonton. Good post, and good luck with your product. I am seriously considering buying one. If I don't like it I can return it, right? Right...
See how simple that was...
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Edmonton GTS, you have a PM.
Edmonton GTS, you have a PM.
VIPR GTS
Viper Owner
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Joe117, What I find unreal here is not you or anyone questioning the testing and performance of the product,but that this very simple and inexpensive little product can cause 4 or 5 pages of discussion here. I bought smooth tubes a couple of years ago for more power and the looks, do they really help, I don't know, don't really care. I bought Scotts cold air pack and ceramic Vipar because they seemed like a logical addition that should help air flow and bring in cooler air than I was pulling before. The metal Vipair is also from Scott and it looks killer and I will keep it even if it has no affect on performance. Nice underhood dressup.
MHOC: you are correct.
It is a no lose situation, not happy, get your money back.
Joe117, What I find unreal here is not you or anyone questioning the testing and performance of the product,but that this very simple and inexpensive little product can cause 4 or 5 pages of discussion here. I bought smooth tubes a couple of years ago for more power and the looks, do they really help, I don't know, don't really care. I bought Scotts cold air pack and ceramic Vipar because they seemed like a logical addition that should help air flow and bring in cooler air than I was pulling before. The metal Vipair is also from Scott and it looks killer and I will keep it even if it has no affect on performance. Nice underhood dressup.
MHOC: you are correct.
It is a no lose situation, not happy, get your money back.
joe117
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
I'm sorry that you find a technical discussion of this device "unreal".
I'm glad that you are happy with the products you have bought and installed on your car.
You contend that the addition of these devices "seemed logical". You claim that they "should help airflow and bring in cooler air".
You say that the metal Vipair looks good and that you would keep it even if you found that it had no affect on performance.
My question to you is, would you have installed these devices on your car if you knew up front that they produced no increase in performance?
Do you think they work? Why do you think that? How have you tested them?
This is a technical forum. The discussion of modifications and their value, be it exhaust systems, wheels or Vipair is exactly what this forum is all about.
And yet you find this discussion "unreal".
What would you like to see posted about a new product? A string of posts saying something like, "wow, that's cool, I'll take one"?
Do you think every device that is designed to produce extra performance works as well as the seller claims? Is it possible that some of them might not work at all?
Is it possible that the designer who claims to be, "far from an aerodynamic engineer", might have made a technical mistake when designing a device that requires aerodynamic knowledge?
I never made any statement claiming that the seller was knowingly selling a worthless device. I don't think I even said that it would not work. I simply pointed out that it hasn't been tested in what I consider a logical way. I suggested other means of testing and the designer agreed to cooperate with this suggestion.
I find your criticism of my, and others, questions as to the true benefits gained by this device to be childish. You seem to think that logical questions are somehow out of place.
It would be logical to test a device such as this in a way that could quantify the air pressure increase and the air temperature decrease when compared to stock components.
This testing was not performed. Do you think it is somehow bad manners to point this out?
If the first post in this thread had a picture of a Vipair and said,
"this is designed to bring in cool air and increase pressure in the intake. We don't know how well it works but try it out and if you don't like it, send it back",
I wouldn't have much to say, would I?
When claims of 16rwhp that feels like 50hp on the street, were made, I think it's fair to ask about the quality of the measurements.
If you really want to do some, "Nice underhood dressup", perhaps you could string some Christmas tree lights around the engine and post a picture. I'll bet we would have three or four pages of comment on that. They are an "inexpensive little product", go for it.
I'm sorry that you find a technical discussion of this device "unreal".
I'm glad that you are happy with the products you have bought and installed on your car.
You contend that the addition of these devices "seemed logical". You claim that they "should help airflow and bring in cooler air".
You say that the metal Vipair looks good and that you would keep it even if you found that it had no affect on performance.
My question to you is, would you have installed these devices on your car if you knew up front that they produced no increase in performance?
Do you think they work? Why do you think that? How have you tested them?
This is a technical forum. The discussion of modifications and their value, be it exhaust systems, wheels or Vipair is exactly what this forum is all about.
And yet you find this discussion "unreal".
What would you like to see posted about a new product? A string of posts saying something like, "wow, that's cool, I'll take one"?
Do you think every device that is designed to produce extra performance works as well as the seller claims? Is it possible that some of them might not work at all?
Is it possible that the designer who claims to be, "far from an aerodynamic engineer", might have made a technical mistake when designing a device that requires aerodynamic knowledge?
I never made any statement claiming that the seller was knowingly selling a worthless device. I don't think I even said that it would not work. I simply pointed out that it hasn't been tested in what I consider a logical way. I suggested other means of testing and the designer agreed to cooperate with this suggestion.
I find your criticism of my, and others, questions as to the true benefits gained by this device to be childish. You seem to think that logical questions are somehow out of place.
It would be logical to test a device such as this in a way that could quantify the air pressure increase and the air temperature decrease when compared to stock components.
This testing was not performed. Do you think it is somehow bad manners to point this out?
If the first post in this thread had a picture of a Vipair and said,
"this is designed to bring in cool air and increase pressure in the intake. We don't know how well it works but try it out and if you don't like it, send it back",
I wouldn't have much to say, would I?
When claims of 16rwhp that feels like 50hp on the street, were made, I think it's fair to ask about the quality of the measurements.
If you really want to do some, "Nice underhood dressup", perhaps you could string some Christmas tree lights around the engine and post a picture. I'll bet we would have three or four pages of comment on that. They are an "inexpensive little product", go for it.
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
"If you really want to do some, "Nice underhood dressup", perhaps you could string some Christmas tree lights around the engine and post a picture. I'll bet we would have three or four pages of comment on that."
Bwhahahaha!!
"If you really want to do some, "Nice underhood dressup", perhaps you could string some Christmas tree lights around the engine and post a picture. I'll bet we would have three or four pages of comment on that."
Bwhahahaha!!
VIPR GTS
Viper Owner
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Boy Joe you are touchy, I just think that this amount of conversation would be around the performance of cams, heads, headers, not a $200 item that provides more outside air to the filters. In my purchase, Scott did not make any big horsepower claims, only that it directed air from the front facia to the filters, it does do that. So I got what I expected and paid for. That is probably more than I got with my smooth tubes, which I bought with out any proof of technical superiority. I hope that the Vipar tests out positive. I already have my christmas lights installed under the hood and along the frame, multi colored I might add.
Boy Joe you are touchy, I just think that this amount of conversation would be around the performance of cams, heads, headers, not a $200 item that provides more outside air to the filters. In my purchase, Scott did not make any big horsepower claims, only that it directed air from the front facia to the filters, it does do that. So I got what I expected and paid for. That is probably more than I got with my smooth tubes, which I bought with out any proof of technical superiority. I hope that the Vipar tests out positive. I already have my christmas lights installed under the hood and along the frame, multi colored I might add.
SapphireGTS
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
This is funny. A car with 400 hp is going to feel EXACTLY the same as a car with 416 HP.
Buy it because it looks cool.
This is funny. A car with 400 hp is going to feel EXACTLY the same as a car with 416 HP.
Buy it because it looks cool.
vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
MHQC,
Just why would you like paying $200 for something if you can get the same performance for $50??? Its logic like yours that confirms PT Barnum's assertion as true today as it was then.
MHQC,
Just why would you like paying $200 for something if you can get the same performance for $50??? Its logic like yours that confirms PT Barnum's assertion as true today as it was then.
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Vipah, you missed the point. I bought cookies from a girl scout the other day and paid 5$ for a little bag. She told me they were good cookies. I believed her. I could have had the same cookies for 2$. But who cares? I didn't lose sleep over it. I encouraged her. And at the end of the day, it was 5$. And I felt good helping out a girl down the street.
And since when does logic ever play a part when it comes to Vipers? Hello, you drop 70 000$ on a 2 seater sports car and you claim logic? Not everything in life is logical. These cars are not logical purchases...and you bring up a 200$ to 50$ example, and try to question my logic? By your same comment, shopping for a SC would make me completely insane right?
It is take it or leave it. The point is here is a new product that someone is presenting at a very low cost to me. He was probably very excited to do it, and looked forward to introducing it. He probably never expected a 4+ page analysis on it. I am shopping for a SC now, and I have asked fewer questions...
By the way, I don't know EdmontonGTS, and have never spoken with him, but I think I might buy one. And I dare pay the ENTIRE 200$ for it...I am crazy like that
Vipah, you missed the point. I bought cookies from a girl scout the other day and paid 5$ for a little bag. She told me they were good cookies. I believed her. I could have had the same cookies for 2$. But who cares? I didn't lose sleep over it. I encouraged her. And at the end of the day, it was 5$. And I felt good helping out a girl down the street.
And since when does logic ever play a part when it comes to Vipers? Hello, you drop 70 000$ on a 2 seater sports car and you claim logic? Not everything in life is logical. These cars are not logical purchases...and you bring up a 200$ to 50$ example, and try to question my logic? By your same comment, shopping for a SC would make me completely insane right?
It is take it or leave it. The point is here is a new product that someone is presenting at a very low cost to me. He was probably very excited to do it, and looked forward to introducing it. He probably never expected a 4+ page analysis on it. I am shopping for a SC now, and I have asked fewer questions...
By the way, I don't know EdmontonGTS, and have never spoken with him, but I think I might buy one. And I dare pay the ENTIRE 200$ for it...I am crazy like that
vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
MHQC,
Wow, are you a confused individual. There is huge logic to buying a viper, compare the performance and styling and see if anything is close to it in price.
As far as your SC argument, that is just plane stupid. Let me ask you this, if you could buy SC performance (in all aspects) for 25% what an SC costs, would you still buy the SC? Well, maybe you would, but sane people would not.
Let me try another example that you might understand better: If one gas station is selling 91 Octane gas for $1.50 per gallon, and the one across the street is selling it for $6.00 per gallon, where do you buy?
By the way, can I interest you in this shiny new quarter I have? I will sell it to you for $1.00.
MHQC,
Wow, are you a confused individual. There is huge logic to buying a viper, compare the performance and styling and see if anything is close to it in price.
As far as your SC argument, that is just plane stupid. Let me ask you this, if you could buy SC performance (in all aspects) for 25% what an SC costs, would you still buy the SC? Well, maybe you would, but sane people would not.
Let me try another example that you might understand better: If one gas station is selling 91 Octane gas for $1.50 per gallon, and the one across the street is selling it for $6.00 per gallon, where do you buy?
By the way, can I interest you in this shiny new quarter I have? I will sell it to you for $1.00.
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
It is about perceived cost/benefit/risk. Is your beef with the 200$? The examples you have given are financial ones. So allow me.
I am the confused individual? I haven't been debating here for 150$, or 25%, 6,00$ a gallon...
Cost=200$, benefit=16 or so hp, risk = none. Where is the problem? Where can I go wrong? I don't even know about the other product you are referring to (for 50$), but I have heard plenty about this one.
And besides, have you tested both products? If not, you cannot speak first hand. If you have, I would love to hear the results.
If you want to pay 50$, that is your perogative. If I want to pay 500$, it is mine. And if you can hook me up with a SC at 25%, by all means let me know.
I don't have a problem with YOU or either product. I just feel for the guy trying to do something new. You seem very concerned about the price. Are you the designer of the other product? Or have a stake in it? Market demand will determine if it correctly priced...not you.
Everything is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that I think (as in MY opinion) that it has been overanalysed, that was my point.
Why do I think it will analysed again...must we? It is getting really old.
It is about perceived cost/benefit/risk. Is your beef with the 200$? The examples you have given are financial ones. So allow me.
I am the confused individual? I haven't been debating here for 150$, or 25%, 6,00$ a gallon...
Cost=200$, benefit=16 or so hp, risk = none. Where is the problem? Where can I go wrong? I don't even know about the other product you are referring to (for 50$), but I have heard plenty about this one.
And besides, have you tested both products? If not, you cannot speak first hand. If you have, I would love to hear the results.
If you want to pay 50$, that is your perogative. If I want to pay 500$, it is mine. And if you can hook me up with a SC at 25%, by all means let me know.
I don't have a problem with YOU or either product. I just feel for the guy trying to do something new. You seem very concerned about the price. Are you the designer of the other product? Or have a stake in it? Market demand will determine if it correctly priced...not you.
Everything is relative. It still doesn't change the fact that I think (as in MY opinion) that it has been overanalysed, that was my point.
Why do I think it will analysed again...must we? It is getting really old.
vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
So how about that shiny quarter? It is yours for $1.00!
Come on now, use your perogative.
By the way, if you read all the posts you will see that there is no solid proof for either product. My point is that there seem to two products with the same "benefit". One is 25% of the other. If they in fact do prove to have the same performance benefit than only a fool would buy the $200 part.
So how about that shiny quarter? It is yours for $1.00!
Come on now, use your perogative.
By the way, if you read all the posts you will see that there is no solid proof for either product. My point is that there seem to two products with the same "benefit". One is 25% of the other. If they in fact do prove to have the same performance benefit than only a fool would buy the $200 part.
MHQC
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
have you tried both or not?
Watch out for girl scouts, they get ya everytime.
have you tried both or not?
Watch out for girl scouts, they get ya everytime.
GTS-R 001
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Vipah,
Do you need a $50.00 loan so you can go buy your piece of foam or are you just going to keep dazzling us with your opinions about products you haven't even seen in person, much less tried?
Vipah,
Do you need a $50.00 loan so you can go buy your piece of foam or are you just going to keep dazzling us with your opinions about products you haven't even seen in person, much less tried?
Mike Brunton
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
The thing is the two products are not identical... they have the same function, just like 89 and 92 octane have the same function - but they are different in design and effect (most likely).
Really, unless someone tries both, nobody can give an analysis of the benefits of either. And quite frankly, it ain't the job of the guys selling Vipair to test the competing product... what do you expect them to do? If they test it to be worse and come here and say that, they get treated with skepticism. Are they supposed to come on and say it's better?
Here is one metric... The Vipair looks small and easy to install, pretty unobtrusive and mounts with bolts that look like they won't/can't come out. The advantage one is a large block of foam that I'm not 100% sure I'd want in the front of my car near the intake. Is that personally uneasiness worth $150? It depends on the customer - but it's not Steve or Vipermed's job to prove the other design is good or bad. Russ said he will test the Vipair and what more can be done? There is a money back guarantee - so no risk.
Vipah, with all due respect you sound like you're just heckling these guys that make Vipair and I don't see why. If you want to satisfy your own concerns, the ONLY way that is going to happen is if YOU buy both and test both. If you buy both, you are out $250, the $200 one you can return (dont know about the $50 one). Worst case Vipair is better and you are out $50 - since you have devoted so much time (which I presume is valuable) to this thread, surely that peace of mind is worth $50 to you? on the other hand if Advantage is better, you return Vipair and you're out maybe $5 for shipping. I don't see what's holding you back, which makes me think you're just out to take shots at the Vipair guys? I don't see why?
The thing is the two products are not identical... they have the same function, just like 89 and 92 octane have the same function - but they are different in design and effect (most likely).
Really, unless someone tries both, nobody can give an analysis of the benefits of either. And quite frankly, it ain't the job of the guys selling Vipair to test the competing product... what do you expect them to do? If they test it to be worse and come here and say that, they get treated with skepticism. Are they supposed to come on and say it's better?
Here is one metric... The Vipair looks small and easy to install, pretty unobtrusive and mounts with bolts that look like they won't/can't come out. The advantage one is a large block of foam that I'm not 100% sure I'd want in the front of my car near the intake. Is that personally uneasiness worth $150? It depends on the customer - but it's not Steve or Vipermed's job to prove the other design is good or bad. Russ said he will test the Vipair and what more can be done? There is a money back guarantee - so no risk.
Vipah, with all due respect you sound like you're just heckling these guys that make Vipair and I don't see why. If you want to satisfy your own concerns, the ONLY way that is going to happen is if YOU buy both and test both. If you buy both, you are out $250, the $200 one you can return (dont know about the $50 one). Worst case Vipair is better and you are out $50 - since you have devoted so much time (which I presume is valuable) to this thread, surely that peace of mind is worth $50 to you? on the other hand if Advantage is better, you return Vipair and you're out maybe $5 for shipping. I don't see what's holding you back, which makes me think you're just out to take shots at the Vipair guys? I don't see why?
Russ M
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
I will chime in on this for a moment.
At no point can I accused of promoting the Vipeair product and as a matter of fact my oppinion has yet to change until all of my tests will be done.
Here is why I would never EVER put a piece of foam on my Viper. Eventually it will show wear and start peeling, and begin to look and work like crap(assuming that it works at all). Then you take the risk of that foam breaking away and potentially doing several things. One of which would be to land on a header and catch fire, that would be a great way to finish off a nice car.
At least the Vipeair is a well built lightweight potentially beneficial product. I say potentially because mine has not come in yet and the testing done till this point are too loose on the before and after comparisons.
So lets end the hostilities and wait until my unit comes in, then all questions will be answered.
PS. Please contribute to the PMUM memorial fund on Viperalley.
I will chime in on this for a moment.
At no point can I accused of promoting the Vipeair product and as a matter of fact my oppinion has yet to change until all of my tests will be done.
Here is why I would never EVER put a piece of foam on my Viper. Eventually it will show wear and start peeling, and begin to look and work like crap(assuming that it works at all). Then you take the risk of that foam breaking away and potentially doing several things. One of which would be to land on a header and catch fire, that would be a great way to finish off a nice car.
At least the Vipeair is a well built lightweight potentially beneficial product. I say potentially because mine has not come in yet and the testing done till this point are too loose on the before and after comparisons.
So lets end the hostilities and wait until my unit comes in, then all questions will be answered.
PS. Please contribute to the PMUM memorial
fund on Viperalley.vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Edmonton,
Why not just give me the money. You and your friends don't seem to care about it. Let me know and I will send you the address to send the check.
Mike,
Yes, I am heckling them to some degree. I would just like to see them defend their product logically rather than just pushing it here on the message board. If you are going to use the forum as an advertisement then you need to defend it here as well. I would hardly consider the 3 minutes I spend responding devoting my time. This is amusement, and it is worth every second.
And why don't I buy them and do the testing? Well, I'm not the one selling it so it ain't my job.
Can I interest either of you in this shiny quarter for $1.00?
Edmonton,
Why not just give me the money. You and your friends don't seem to care about it. Let me know and I will send you the address to send the check.
Mike,
Yes, I am heckling them to some degree. I would just like to see them defend their product logically rather than just pushing it here on the message board. If you are going to use the forum as an advertisement then you need to defend it here as well. I would hardly consider the 3 minutes I spend responding devoting my time. This is amusement, and it is worth every second.
And why don't I buy them and do the testing? Well, I'm not the one selling it so it ain't my job.
Can I interest either of you in this shiny quarter for $1.00?
Motor City Mad Man
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
I gave the cold air intake product from Advantage Performance a try at the drag strip last week. In fact here is a quote from the site, it was my 96 Viper that was tested.
"UPDATE: September 25, Milan Dragway. On a very cool, late-evening drag session with a local Corvette club, the owner of a '96 GTS running ETs that night averaging in the 12.52-12.55 range saw the ETs drop to the mid 12.30s in back to back before/after runs after installing the Viper Fresh Air Kit. That's about 15hp for less than $45."
Milan is not the best prepped track in the world, so don't start ragging on me for my ET's. But anyways, I was running about 12.45-12.55 the first half of the evening after I got in the swing of things. Then I took the car off the track, had the Advantage Performance cold air intake sytem install and went back out on the track 20 minutes later. After the first 2 runs of getting in the swing of things again I ripped off 6 runs in the 12.33-12.36 range. Very consistent. I usually get worse ET's as the night goes on at events like this because of the degrading track conditions, but not this time. This was the same track, same car, same driver yours truly, etc, etc. It certainly didn't hurt my times. It may not exactly be a purely scientific test, but it did seem to help me.
I gave the cold air intake product from Advantage Performance a try at the drag strip last week. In fact here is a quote from the site, it was my 96 Viper that was tested.
"UPDATE: September 25, Milan Dragway. On a very cool, late-evening drag session with a local Corvette club, the owner of a '96 GTS running ETs that night averaging in the 12.52-12.55 range saw the ETs drop to the mid 12.30s in back to back before/after runs after installing the Viper Fresh Air Kit. That's about 15hp for less than $45."
Milan is not the best prepped track in the world, so don't start ragging on me for my ET's.
But anyways, I was running about 12.45-12.55 the first half of the evening after I got in the swing of things. Then I took the car off the track, had the Advantage Performance cold air intake sytem install and went back out on the track 20 minutes later. After the first 2 runs of getting in the swing of things again I ripped off 6 runs in the 12.33-12.36 range. Very consistent. I usually get worse ET's as the night goes on at events like this because of the degrading track conditions, but not this time. This was the same track, same car, same driver yours truly, etc, etc. It certainly didn't hurt my times. It may not exactly be a purely scientific test, but it did seem to help me.vipah
Enthusiast
Re: VIPAIR™ Dyno Results on 99 RT 16 RWHP!!
Mad Man,
Can you comment on the quality (or not) of the advantage product?
Mad Man,
Can you comment on the quality (or not) of the advantage product?
- Status
