Viper Brakes? Weakest Link??

[Tomer]

From what I understand, from informal reading and verbal info, the weakest link in the Viper is probably the brakes. I think magazine testing supports this.

I recently installed EBC greens on the front of my 96 RT/10. While reading the manual, I was pleasantly surprised to find out my car has Brembo 4 piston calipers on the front, and a Brembo caliper on the rear also...The pads were even Brembo...

To me, this sounds like a great front caliper...Is this not the case?

Tomer

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

The Viper is strong in so many areas that something has to be a weak link. Plenty of people run strong with stock brakes or with mild mods to the brakes. Apparently there is an O-ring that can be removed to throw more bias to the rears. I haven't tried it yet.

If you're using EBC greens you've made your weak link weaker, but at least there's no dust.

 

[ElDiablo Viper]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck 98 RT/10:
The Viper is strong in so many areas that something has to be a weak link. Plenty of people run strong with stock brakes or with mild mods to the brakes. Apparently there is an O-ring that can be removed to throw more bias to the rears. I haven't tried it yet.

If you're using EBC greens you've made your weak link weaker, but at least there's no dust.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I would say that the brake fluid is second on the list.

 

[Tomer]

Why would you say the EBC greens are even weaker than stock pads?

From my first test, the EBCs grip more given the same pedal pressure...I locked up a wheel in a manouver that normally would not have (I just changed the pads in the front)...

TOmer

 

[Gavin]

Tomer, do a search on this site and you will find awealth of information regarding brakes.

Here is a bit of it.

Basic problem with the Viper is the rear calipers do a very low percentage of the braking. Unfortunate as there is a ton of tire there. So the load is on the front tires.

You have already experienced one of the issues of having the fronts doing most of the stopping - wheel lockup.

Now, just so you know the thinking falls into two groups - leave em stock group and upgrade em group.
Track events:
There are guys out there running the stock setup, with high temp fluid and cooling ducts and aftermarket pads and are very quick.
Heat is the second big issue with any setup, stock or upgraded.

There are two and four wheel upgrade kits.
For my money, upgrading the fronts is not the best way to go - it doesn't resolve the lack of rear braking effect issue.
At least upgrade the rear calipers - this then involves replacing the master cylinder.

If you are only running your car on the street, Porterfield R4 street pads, high temp brake fluid and cooling ducts are probably all you need.

 

[jimandela]

Chuck,
maybe older EBC were weaker but i think the new and improved
01 pads are better than stock
they seem to stop the car better and yes no dust is nice.
but IMHO i would say adding EBC's to my 01 was a step forward not back

JIM

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Poor rear brakes? Did someone say Renault rear brakes?

how to improve rear brakes

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jimandela:
Chuck,
maybe older EBC were weaker but i think the new and improved
01 pads are better than stock
they seem to stop the car better and yes no dust is nice.
but IMHO i would say adding EBC's to my 01 was a step forward not back

JIM

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fair enough. Maybe they are better now than when I used them.

 

[MtHam ACR]

Hey Tom,

At least the front rotors are OEM 4-*** brembos painted with the viper logo, I can't comment on the rears. These are generally a good caliper, but from what I understand the choice of piston sizes, cooling probs (I think wheel design is a big factor here) and lack of proper rear bias are what make them weak.

For what it's worth, I ran the identical caliper on my 99Cobra which is about the same weight as the viper, those brakes witht the right pads were awesome.

I'm still running the stock hardware today, but I think anyone doing track work wants the confidence of a better set of brakes as they approach the serious speeds of which our vipers are capable. You go fast, you need to be able to stop fast.

cheers man,

 

[COOLASP]

I didn't want to spend the big money on any aftermarket systems right now so I opted to improve the stock system with StainlessSteel braded lines all 4,High temp fluid,Air deflectors and Porterfield R4 pads all 4. The differance is very noticable, my very spirited drives in the hills doesn't leave with no brakes for the ride home.

 

[J DAWG]

Are the cooling ducts and air deflectors the same thing.
Chuck, were you the one who said you made your own?

 

[Bill Pemberton Woodhouse]

The answers to your concerns are varied, but you are getting alot of good information. The main problem with the brakes is not the Brembo rotors and calipers, but the design of the car that we all love so much. The sweeping curves and an low nose are gorgeous, but the air flow to the rotors is almost non-existent. Though some folks wish DC had put a larger rotor on the front, the big problem is heat, and with no airflow over the rotors/calipers , once they get warm they often will boil the fluid. The EBCs are not a track pad ,but they are great for the street. The reason they grab quicker is that they work at a lower temperature, and that is what you would want for street driving.Racing pads take more heat to get their clamping force, hence they often feel dead and take longer to engage if used for street driving. Some pads even tell you not to use for the street --- too much heat needed to react.Stainless lines are beneficial , regardless of your driving style , as they resist expansion and therefore are one important factor in alleviating some moisture transfer ( brake fluid has an affinity to water ). I would recommend going to a DOT 4 fluid at least ( Brakeman, Motul 600, AP 600, etc. ) or a super stout fluid like Castrol SRF or the new ( and hard to get ) Brakeman Xtreme 6 --- it is alot less than Castrol , hence it is already in short supply.

If you plan on doing street driving, hwy., etc. I would upgrade your fluid, get a set of stainless steel lines, possibly purchase a set of Porsche air deflectors , and call it quits. If you plan on going on the track, the EBCs must go, and I would get a good slotted , one-piece rotor ( StopTech or EBC ) , air deflectors, and do the proportioning valve O ring removal.

I don't suggest a Big Brake upgrade until you see how much you are going to go on the track, and if you enjoy yourself alot this upgrade and the addition of a professional air duct system is a must. Best models, in my opinion, are the StopTech and the revised Brakeman systems - you can't go wrong with either one.

 

[Chuck 98 RT/10]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J SMITH:
Are the cooling ducts and air deflectors the same thing.
Chuck, were you the one who said you made your own?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ducts and deflectors are not the same. Deflectors scoop air up and direct it towards the rotor. Ducts are exactly what they sound like.

Some people have had good results with deflectors, some have not. For me they were worthless.

I use air inlet ducts from Discount, Western, Pep Boys, etc. for $8 each and route them with plastic ties.

 

[MtHam ACR]

Bill P, what's the revised brakeman solution?
Link?

Thanks,