Viper on Propane?

[eliems]

I have had cars on propane and they run great, save me a fortune on fuel, (currently 1/3 the price of gasoline here), but a Viper on propane? Heresy or a good idea?

From the AC Cobra forum ...

Randy comes to Run & Gun every year since 99. He runs propane. He is also the record holder for pikes peak on propane. It's a shell valley car with alot of work. He does run a SBC, but it's fast and loud. Not sure on the power level but with 10's 1/4 mile and the 130's mph, the motor is maken over 600HP

 

[Kevan]

There's a guy in the Netherlands(?) that has an SRT-10 Ram truck running on LPG.
The conversion was uncheap.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

There's a guy in the Netherlands(?) that has an SRT-10 Ram truck running on LPG.
The conversion was uncheap.

I have seen a picture of what that looks like, will see if I can dig it up this evening and post it here.

 

[plumcrazy]

<<----shakes head and walks away.

 

[InjectTheVenom]

^^^I know right, the stuff should only be used to fuel the BBQ

The thing is, this particular Ram is used as a daily driver from what I hear and it drives a substantial amount of miles per year (40.000 + kilometers).

 

[jimchris]

I wish we could run on e-85 but the octane is to high(105). That price is .50-$1.00 cheaper. I run it in my Suburban and love it.

 

[Tom F&L GoR]

Propane is a very high octane fuel. LPG is typcially 80% to 95% propane. The octane rating method was not designed for gaseous fuels, so there's a little hand waving involved when determining the actual number, but most references say 95 or 96 MON and if it had the typical +8 or +10 to RON, then the octane number in the yellow sticker at the gas pump would be around 100.

With the use of CNG by OEMs, you should expect that automotive use of other gaseous fuels should increase and parts (tanks, metering systems, fuel lines, etc) would become better quality, lower cost, and easier to find. Honda (or maybe Toyota?) sells a CNG-only car. There is even a home CNG pumping station to allow low pressure natural gas used to heat your house to be compressed and fill your car. Never have to go to a gas station, use inexpensive fuel, take a risk and not pay road tax, better fuel efficiency. Downside is it takes overnight to refill a Honda fuel tank.

 

[DarcShadow]

What kind of milage can you get with propane though? Does it actually work out to be cheaper per mile?

My Dad found that E85, in Indiana anyway, wasn't cheap enough to offset the lost of milage so that E85 or standard gas cost him the same to go a fixed distance.

 

[plumcrazy]

E85 from what I have heard is a joke for mileage. Like said above, it just doesn't save any money. Maybe it burns cleaner, but really....who cares ?

You didn't buy a viper if you are a greenie.

It is fun though to talk about getting x amount of mpg while pushing x amount of rwhp, but ya aint green.....

 

[InjectTheVenom]

The truck:

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The engine:

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[InjectTheVenom]

And not just one guy either, according to the Dutch DMV this guy is also using it:

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[Tim]

The company I had worked for back in the 80’s were on this propane kick and gave me a new 89 F150 converted to run on propane and gas (dual conversion). Here in Canada in the winter in did not start at all on propane at minus 25 or colder as the gas was almost liquid at that temp. We had to start on gasoline and then switch over. For whatever reason while driving in winter on propane the motor never would heat up so it threw cold air. I was still cold in the cab even with a snowmobile suit and boots on. My cocker spaniel was shivering at my side was even fighting with me for the spare blanket. On gas it had lots of heat, but on propane it sucked. (This might be good for the vipers)
As far as power, we lost power on this conversion and the fuel mileage sucked like dropped to less than 10 mpg.

Finding fuel was not always easy and fuelling up was excruciating painful. At the service stations there had to be a Propane Technologist certified and available to fill you up. And then he just as soon be at the gas pumps wandering around instead of standing by my truck during the fuelling process. Normally I could count on it being a ½ process each and every time.

Oh then there were the intermittent electrical problems and I won’t even get into this one.

Would I do it again? Never again in my life as it was a total pain in the butt. The only good thing is that in theory it is cleaner burning and the engines last longer. But realistically with all of the resources going into the break downs and being towed into town it was harder on the environment.

Good thing it was in a truck as those tanks take up a lot of room and you can’t park a propane vehicle in a parkade. Sticking a custom tank in a Viper would be expensive and how much room do we really have to spare?
I’m sure that 20 years later they have improved somewhat and maybe it is the future but it has not taken off as being the hot ticket from the factory.
Tim

 

[Tim]

and add in the $6000.00 for the conversion, it's not cheap and your never going to recover your money...........................

 

[eliems]

OK, what about one of these Air Engines then?

Air Car - First Air-Powered Car - Zero Emissions - Behind the Tech - Popular Mechanics

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVIwropRMME[/media]

 

[HSSSSSS]

We used to run propane on hotshot pickups in 80's. Saved a lot of money on fuel as you buy a setup once and transfer it to new pickup. Back then propane was about 40% the price of gas. Sometimes you could get propane for as little as 9 cents a litre when a propane outlet had a price war on. Round tripped Grande Prairie to Calgary once for $31. (900 mi.)
Propane gets about 10% less mileage than gas. We had 318 Dodge 1/2 tons and got about 14mpg on propane. Have to watch the air/fuel ratio closer. Propane is a hotter burning gas and enters intake as a gas. Has a vaporizer on fender with heater hoses running to it to gasify liquid propane.
Some people ran dual fuel (gas or propane) but we went direct to propane. Have to tune different for propane so running dual you have to tune for propane. If you go in between you lose too much on mileage on either fuel and end up burning out valves by running too rich on propane. Used to be able to get propane engines with Stellite valves to keep them from burning out.
In the winter we wrapped the vaporizer with heat tape and plugged it in with the block heater. If it was not plugged in a *** of hot water poured slowly over the vaporizer did the trick. I don't recall there being a heater issue. Drove them at -45 and stayed warm. Did have the weatherfront closed in at that temp though.

 

[Red Shift]

I wish we could run on e-85 but the octane is to high(105). That price is .50-$1.00 cheaper. I run it in my Suburban and love it.

You can and some Vipers DO run on E85. I'm considering sizing my fuel system for it when I revamp it. It allows more aggressive timing for more power. The engine also runs cooler and I wouldn't need water/**** injection.

 

[gb66gth]

Biobutinol, a fuel we should all be praying for. Look it up and remember you heard it here first!

Additionally, I would run my Viper, or any other car I own,on horse pi$$ if it gave as much power as gasoline and ended our dependence on oil from Arab countries, who use our money to fund terrorist groups who hate and want to destroy us. F 'em!

 

[Kevan]

....and ended our dependence on oil from Arab countries, who use our money to fund terrorist groups who hate and want to destroy us.

Does that seem counter-productive to anyone else?
They certainly are a kooky bunch.

 

[jimchris]

E85 from what I have heard is a joke for mileage. Like said above, it just doesn't save any money. Maybe it burns cleaner, but really....who cares ?

You didn't buy a viper if you are a greenie.

It is fun though to talk about getting x amount of mpg while pushing x amount of rwhp, but ya aint green.....

The key words in your comment is, FROM WHAT I HEARD. Do the math. On my Suburban it will go 435 mi. on 30 gal. of E-85 and will run 510 mi. on 30 gal. reg fuel. E-85 only runs .85% as far but the cost of the E-85 is less. Price of gas today is 2.69 so .85% of that would be 2.28 for a break even but E-85 is 1.99. So on my Suburban E-85 needs to be .41 cents cheaper to break even. 2.69 vs 1.99 makes it .70 cents cheaper, I seen that price spread as high as 1.00 per gal.
As far as your green comment, for me its not about going green its about NOT buying oil from the Middle East.

 

[01sapphirebob]

I believe when they do a random test on the engines at conner they use propane to run the engine....